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Forums / BB Social Zone / And now for something completely different..............

Topic: And now for something completely different..............

  1. CrashCoyote
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    12 December 2014

    This thread is designed for people that are lonely, or bored, or just want to exercise their mind a bit. It only has three rules. It is not a place to discuss our issues (everywhere else on the site is for that!), it is not for people to use their own situation as an example - if you want to make a point, be objective and, it is not personal, so just respect everyone's point of view and let's play a bit of Devil's Advocate along the way.

    I'll kick it off. 

    If we accept the Darwinism and the Big Bang theory, everything originated from an explosion of all known matter in the universe from an unimaginably hot ball. If everything was made of inanimate particles; How was life created?

    Kind regards, John.

  2. white knight
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    12 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    Hi John

    Hydrogen, oxygen, other elements, ideal temperatures, planet rotation, moon for waves .....and the tax man. = life as we know it.

     

    Tony WK

  3. CrashCoyote
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    12 December 2014 in reply to white knight
    Too easy, my friend. How did the transformation from not being life to being life happen? I mean, at one point there was no life, the next there was. No random mix of atoms can create life. Surely?
  4. Frann
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    14 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    Is this going to be a debate between science and religion? Could the sun have helped by  stiring up these molecules? 

    What is your theory CrashCoyote? How did we get here? And please - why?

    ciao 

     

  5. CrashCoyote
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    14 December 2014 in reply to Frann

    I really don't know. I have always been partial to evolution over creationism but am really wondering how there isn't life and then there is.

    The definition of a theory is that it is provable, otherwise it is conjecture at best. So if it is possible to create life can we demonstrate how or are we just not that advanced yet?

  6. Frann
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    14 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote
    Even the pope is now saying its a bit of both! 
  7. turtl3
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    14 December 2014 in reply to Frann

    Just because we are the first known living organism to document, and HAVE documents of proof, of life (given that the bible wasnt just a story written by some bloke, and given to a suicidal mate to give him something to believe in and not commit suicide). It doesnt mean that we are AND/OR were the first.

    I personally believe in evolution, and thats not simply limited to man kind.

    Given the vast size of the university and how little we actually can, and do know about it with our current technology, i like to think that we are merely an 'ant farm' to a greater life form.

    I myself, cannot fathom the idea of creation, given how many different religions there are, and how many different gods they follow, and none of them recognise the others!?! so i pose the question - which is 'THE RIGHT ONE' (if any?)

    look how quickly we have advanced in recent years regarding technology, given that millions of years ago we were simply 'cavemen' chasing dinosaurs, yet to discover fire and the wheel. But in the last 100...we have designed cars and engineered electricity, in the last 50 televisions and radio, last 10-15, internet and mobiles, last 5, smartphones and wireless technology...bluetooth, infrared, we now have thingys that detect our pulse and how much energy we burn and communicate with our smart phones to tell us!

    NOW!- I'm no rocket surgeon or brain scientist, but after having watched 'through the wormhole' - narrated by Morgan Freeman. My mind was tying itself in knots trying to grasp everything he 'babbling on about'

    Maybe I'm biased, maybe not, I'm not an atheist, but I am agnostic...Ive been to church, and I think that there may be a creator, but until im gone, and end up in the hot center or the cool clouds...im going to stick with evolution, simply because there are too many religions/gods to be able to pick one, and be guaranteed reincarnation - - -which i also like to think would be fun.

    If i could come back, I would come back as MY dog...SHEESH - talk about an easy life!?  i nick-name him compost...he gets anything and everything that's safe to feed a dog, plus we rescued him from a terrible place. probably why hes so affectionate/sooky... walks every other day...choice of 3 beds. BONES, BISCUITS, TREATS, SNACKS, TRAINGING, THE BEACH, He must be in DOG HEAVEN!

    Oh wait, what religion is my dog? Guess hes just stuck here with us living the good life :)

  8. Frann
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    15 December 2014 in reply to turtl3

    Thumbs up tyrtl3 - like! 

    My dog probably hangs out with yours! 

    Christine

  9. white knight
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    15 December 2014 in reply to Frann

    Hi

    x2 for turtl3.  too right

    Now lets get a little perspective here John.  Until a few weeks ago all astronomers believed the universe was one universe. Now, with the help of that greatest brain of all time Steven Hawking, we now know there is thousands or millions of universes.

    For those that are not astronomically savvy, if you travelled near the speed of light 286,000 miles a second, you wouldnt go anywhere near the end of our universe in your lifetime. It is so huge I struggle to fathom how huge.

    What does this have to do with your question John?

    That questions about these things will always haunt us humans.

    Just like why people still go hungry. Along with why politicians want more populations in the name of "growth".  eg for more income to make the rich richer and the poor more hungry.

    And we are the smartest race????

    Tony WK

  10. geoff
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    16 December 2014 in reply to white knight

    dear All, the big question ' How was life created', well if you google this question which John has asked, there are many theories, which have been explained by all types of beliefs, as is how were the pyramids built, again so many different ways, so which one do we believe in with the emphasis on John's question, the practical, physical, scientic, religious and this includes by being an atheist, which I am now, but once before I did believe in some god, because it was pushed onto me at school, but there are so many unanswered questions.

    So how did the human race begin, by Adam and Eve, so were they blinked down to earth, but didn't the homosapien race begin by us being monkeys and then progress into who we are now, just saying.

    The astromers have now found another planet, mega the size of earth and humteen times so much hotter than earth, so the universe is gienormous, we don't know.

    So back to the question, 'how was life created', I'm just a layman and have no idea, so my mind is open, but I favour what the scientists or perhaps astromers have to say, but I know that I won't have 2014 birthday celebrations.

    Sorry if I have offended anyone, and please criticise me if you want. Geoff.  

  11. Frann
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    16 December 2014 in reply to geoff

    WK - agree about Stephen Hawkin, the professor makes sense .He simply argues that evidence points out (laws of physics) that the universe can pop into being from absolutely nothing, that there was no time before the creation of the universe and so that would mean no time for Grand Designer.

     Evolution by natural selection is the only workable theory ever proposed that is capable of explaining life, and it does so brilliantly ( Richard Dawkins) - he rocks! Pun not intended! 

    In my opinion - Science explains everything but a little spirituality ( believing in whatever takes your fancy) can help us mere mortals sometimes just get by. 

    Layman here too Geoff! 

     Frann ( the old Christine) 


  12. CrashCoyote
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    16 December 2014 in reply to geoff
    My friend Geoff, we are here to play the ball, not the man! You'll get no criticism from me. I'm just enjoying reading posts like the ones on here and considering the views of everyone. :-)
  13. geoff
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    16 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    dear John, it's the wonders which we won't know, especially at my age, and no different than having to give our iphones to my kids and ask them to do this or that, but then I explain to them that when they get older they will be doing exactly the same with their children, so the process of life just carries on.

    Technology changes or improves as time passes, but when you look at my Dad who was born 1919, just imagine how much his world has changed from the copper to wash his clothes, the little 'austin of england' with the small arrow that popped out to turn a corner, to microwaves and the list goes on.

    One thing I have never known is who was Donald Duck's parents, and the same with Mickey Mouse, Goofy parents. lol Geoff.

    '

  14. Frann
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    17 December 2014 in reply to geoff

    Hi Geoff,

    Talking about technology -I'm never going to get it right- thought I would be clever and upload a profile picture and it's only showing the top half! LOL sometimes at your self I say!

    Have a great day!

    Frann

  15. CrashCoyote
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    17 December 2014 in reply to geoff

    Hi Geoff,

    Google and you shall find! I was intrigued by your question and Googled "Who are Donald Duck's parents". The Disney mob have a whole lineage on there. I won't spoil the surprise for you, but it is there!

    Kind regards, John.

  16. Frann
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    17 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

     How did we get from the theory of evolution to this?  Instead of working I find myself looking up Donald Ducks parents.....Thanks for the distraction John!

    hahahehe

    Frann

  17. CrashCoyote
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    17 December 2014 in reply to Frann
    Now tell me what came first, the chicken or the egg? I have a strong argument it was the egg. Do you want to know more..............
  18. Frann
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    17 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote
    Go on , I always thought probably the chicken...
  19. White Rose
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    17 December 2014 in reply to Frann

    Hello Everyone

    John said "If we accept the Darwinism and the Big Bang theory, everything originated from an explosion of all known matter in the universe from an unimaginably hot ball. If everything was made of inanimate particles; How was life created?" The scientists say that atoms etc combined to create clusters that combined etc etc etc. In this case we are nothing but a collection of chemicals.

    Can anyone tell me where the "known matter" came from? It's generally accepted that the Earth and its flora and fauna evolved over 7.5 billion years.(May have the exact number wrong). But where did the original matter that started this evolution process, come from?

    This is the critical question that anti-creationists must answer.

    Also, if we are only a collection of chemicals where does our humanity, our love, our feelings, our spirituality and our creativity come from? It certainly separates us from the rest of the life on Earth.

    Mary

  20. CrashCoyote
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    17 December 2014 in reply to White Rose

    Hello Mary,

    That is my point. I have always believed in evolution (and it has some pretty compelling evidence to support it) yet the question of how life, or indeed consciousness arose, is one I cannot find the answer to. (Except of course for creationism.) It may be the one issue on which the two beliefs turn.

    Kind regards, John

  21. CrashCoyote
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    17 December 2014 in reply to Frann
    I think the egg. (Assuming evolution!!) There was a pattern at any point along the line of bird and egg that a bird laid an egg and another bird came from it. Working backwards, it stands to reason that a bird that was not a chicken - but about to evolve into one - laid an egg that, when hatched, was a chicken. The egg and next chicken followed and so on. Viola!
  22. Frann
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    17 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    Hi John,

    Pretty much how I think about it only I didn't know about the original chicken being a bird and not a chicken ....

     

     

  23. geoff
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    17 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    dear John, thanks for that, but who were Clan McDucks parents not that it really matters as it's only a hypothetical question, but it's only been 60 years to wonder who they were.

    One question leads to another question. Geoff.

  24. turtl3
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    18 December 2014 in reply to geoff

    i personally think the chicken must have come first. if the egg came first, there could have been anything in it - a turtle, a snake, a platypus...whats to say there would have ever been a chicken!?! the chicken would have slowly evolved, and/or devolved from a prehistoric dinosaur.

    and given the fertile chicken egg is the outcome of reproduction, there must have been a rooster AND a chicken for 'said egg' to have been laid in the first place.

     

  25. CrashCoyote
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    18 December 2014 in reply to turtl3
    I believe the chicken is part of the evolution of the bird, so the egg from a predecessor bird could not have contained a turtle, a snake, or a platypus. I cannot imagine that a bird that was not born a chicken evolved into one in it's lifespan of roughly ten or so years. I can imagine a pre-chicken type bird laying an egg whose embryo developed to be slightly more like a chicken and, over time, getting to a point where one of those eggs was a chicken as we know it.
  26. turtl3
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    19 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote
    no, the egg from a predecessor bird could not have contained one of the animals mentioned above. i think the question needs to be more specific - which came first, the chicken or the CHICKEN egg??

    I vaguely remember watching some wild documentary that showed evidence of raptor type dinosaurs actually being covered in feathers, no scaly skin. but when you look at pterodactyls they were like gigantic pelican-bats? so maybe at one point or another birds genetically evolved to be raptor like creatures (like the modern day emus and cassowaries, from velociraptors and the likes) or maybe it was vice versa.

    did everything evolve from one species to adapt to its environmental surroundings?
  27. CrashCoyote
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    19 December 2014 in reply to turtl3
    I see your point and there is no definitive way one could tell from the start whether it was the chicken or the chicken egg that first existed, but in the absence of another belief (aside from that pesky creationism) my reasoning is sound. Yes?
  28. White Rose
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    White Rose avatar
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    20 December 2014 in reply to CrashCoyote

    In my previous post I asked "Can anyone tell me where the "known matter" came from? It's generally accepted that the Earth and its flora and fauna evolved over 7.5 billion years.(May have the exact number wrong). But where did the original matter that started this evolution process, come from?"

    Can anyone answer that please?  I don't mean the big bang theory as this supposes matter was already present to produce the 'big bang'. Where did the materials come from that produced the big bang?

    Mary

  29. Frann
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    20 December 2014 in reply to White Rose

    Hey Mary,

    According to Richard Dawkins ( I've watched him on Q& A a couple of times and he just makes sense to me - watch the podcasts if you haven't and might be interested)

    "Far from being a once-in-a-million event that could only be accounted for by extraordinary serendipity or a divine hand, the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics. Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist, It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the Universe going,” . 

    Difficult to comprehend though. 

    Frann

  30. geoff
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    20 December 2014 in reply to White Rose

    dear Mary, well I've gone searching for an answer to your question, and we are only around in circles, not that there is anything wrong with this, no different than a religious person arguing with a atheist, however there is information on the net that explains an answer, and whether we want to believe it or not is up to the person, so I will just copy and paste some articles,

    , life began by natural causes from non living matter; then gradually that original life changed till from it came all the modern kinds of plants and animals including man.

    So how would we ever know, theories, beliefs, religious beliefs taught to us at a young age, or perhaps what the scientists have to suggest.

    If we are brought up in a strict religion then we are indoctrinated into growing up with this religion and then believe what their church tells, I had better stop here because I'm sorry if I offended anyone and what they believe in, so can I just finish by saying that I did chemistry in the latter years of at school, and what you can achieve by mixing 2 chemicals can produce something else.

    Please forgive me if the information I have quoted is incorrect, and please in no way was the intention to upset anyone. Geoff.

    Somehow, probably in the first billion years of our world's existence, that promise was fulfilled. A nondescript glob of chemicals crossed some vague and wondrous boundary to become the first living thing. From such unfeeling chemicals, Earth eventually filled with a teeming diversity of life, from microbes to Men. - "In the beginning," Robert Locke (Ft. Wayne News-Sentinel, 1/26/80)

    So I have just googled your question which I'm sure that others may have as well, that is it check out 'original matter that started this evolution process'.

    I don't want to get into an argument about God's direct involvement, all kinds of plants and animals were created from the very beginning (vv 11f,20f,24f), but being an atheist they say, and it's not the only thought of contention, however, 'religious people wait for scientists to discover laws and facts in nature .. and then open their old "holy' books and simply say: it's in the word of God from the start.

    So, whatever the question is .. the answers are: 1 - God 2 - God did it 3 - God said it

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