Online forums

Before you can post or reply in these forums, please complete your profile

Complete your profile

Before you can post or reply in these forums, please join our online community.

Forum membership is open to anyone residing in Australia.

Join the online community Community rules Coping during the Coronavirus outbreak

Forums / Depression / Depressed due to isolation and civil liberty restrictions

Topic: Depressed due to isolation and civil liberty restrictions

  1. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    19 September 2020 in reply to Moonstruck
    I had a conversation with the neighbour yesterday. I was very careful of what i said knowing that she is very much supporting the border closure. Well, her reaction: "too bad for those aussies stuck oversea. Everyone has their individual story but the closure is for the best interest of WA people." Her husband is still continuing fly in and out to the mine site in WA. Life goes on nicely in this safe bubble. In turn, i am the selfish one wanting the border opens so people get to see their loved ones? Not even a sympathy word when i said that I'm losing my job because there is no money flowing in as a result of the border closure. I once liked our premier implementing the restrictions to get it under control. 6 months onward, nothing has changed to move forward with a better plan to open up so more people would lose their jobs in the next few months. This virus isn't going away, don't they understand? There is no hope. We have achieved more than what we set out to do at this point. There is no health reason to suggest that we should remain close to non hotspot states. WA is also the only state that won't participate in opening up the interstate border by christmas even if it is under controlled in the east. The only good news is that our premier has agreed to up the cap to let aussies come home -- with the possibility of using christmas island as a quarantine centre. That's how our aussies are being treated but the majority of WA people see their returning at the mercy of our govt. People still think that they have plenty of time to come back!

    I feel terrible sorry for the Victorians. 21 new cases, they are still in strict lockdown. I better pray that we don't have a community case in WA because we would all be locked up. In the meantime, 1500 new cases per day in the Netherlands, live goes on with precautions. My European friends have the most empathy than the rest of people around me. While number is rising there, they told me that the hospital ICU isn't as full as back in March/April. Thus, they are alerted but not alarmed. They have a more realistic view. I have since known 4 people personally who got the covid oversea. All recovered. 1 without symptoms, 1 with mild symptoms, the other 2 felt like they had a bad "flu" and took 1.5 weeks to recover. I'm not denying that it kills. So does the flu and depression etc but those statistics aren't reported widely in the media.
    1 person found this helpful
  2. Moonstruck
    Moonstruck avatar
    3364 posts
    20 September 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Hi Lunastone.....I have given up trying to figure out...and understand..and accept what we are being told, I really am.

    I am an intelligent person who always obeys the law, tries to co operate with others whether I know them personally or just share the community, streets and stores etc with them......I try to look after my physical health and if feeling sick, let others know ...and keep my distance from them....never cough or sneeze over anyone in my life...since I was about 2 years old probably....nor have I ever had anyone cough or sneeze over me [ except perhaps for my own babies but even then....I didn't catch anything...LOL).....oh yes,nearly forgot...Yes I wash my hands and have been doing so since I was a toddler I think!!!

    My region of Qld has had no cases of Covid since the beginning....None, Zero, Nought....nor my surrounding regions...None, Zero, Nought!

    Am I the only fool who has begun to realise that [a) we cannot totally "eradicate" Covid virus, nor have cases down to "zero" [which is what our Premier demands from NSW before she lets them in) and [b) a vaccine maybe way way off in the future...if ever.........not being allowed to "live our lives" alongside this thing....is slowly "killing us all" emotionally and economically anyway.........look at the statistics for suicides and cries for help from mental health sufferers...

    Premiers, can we please have the number statistics of those suicides due to Covid hysteria, plus the number of citizens whose depression has worsened to an unbearable misery?....

    Numbers please State Premiers!

    2 people found this helpful
  3. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    20 September 2020 in reply to Moonstruck

    Hi, moonstruck and all,

    yes, i'm not the extreme like some who denying the exist of the virus. I also let everyone know when my kid is mildly sick with the runny nose if they invited us over just in case they have someone with immune issue in the family. This is pre-covid. Yes, i'm also starting to give up. There is no hope. I don't understand why a hotspot approach isn't sensible and a statewide approach is needed at this point. We should all accept that there are going to have cases. My extended family (not in Australia) shut their business for a week when there were local cases identified. It is a small town so everyone was aware. They resumed as soon as it was contained. Our life has been dictated to the extreme. I didn't come to australia for this. I'm also a good citizen. Keep my social distance, wash my hand, i even wear my mask if i go to the GP office with my sick child now. Even without covid, it is a good practice for myself anyway! I wont sign qantas petition because I am worried of my safety for wanting the interstate borders to open. It is not for me to visit family as they are all oversea. However, i do hope our work business could resume with the east so others won't fall into the same fate as me of not having a job when their contract ends.

    1 person found this helpful
  4. Moonstruck
    Moonstruck avatar
    3364 posts
    2 October 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Morning Friends.....haven't seen anyone on here for the last 12 days....are you all OK? Is this a good sign that the Covid drama is settling down somewhat....or do some folk feel helpless and its no use anyway to express our opinions ...which perhaps count for nothing? e.g. we're just accepting being swept along following any decisions our decision-makers make?

    Just noticing on some forum threads on the subject that not as many are speaking up or sharing as much as we all used to......if this is a positive thing, then that's great.....or is it surrender?

  5. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    3 October 2020 in reply to Moonstruck

    Hi, moonstruck,

    thanks for checking in. I've gone silent because I've given up on what goes on with Covid and restriction etc in this country. I don't even have to check. Nothing is ever going to change in WA. We will still have the hard border. The last i read, the rules will be slightly relaxed for domestic people who want to visit during christmas. Too bad if you are a WA resident -- you still need the permission to come back.

    My mind is occupied with other things right now. Mainly job. As posted ~two weeks ago, I'm losing my job. I'm grieving and am still trying to come to term with it after years of training to be in the profession. I'm trying to figure out what's next and the uncertainty with the covid restrictions is wearing me down fast. I thought that this would have been a good time clearing out my annual leaves and taking the kid to visit my family oversea (also a low risk country) but that seems to be impossible.

    Well, just to throw in my observations. 6 months onward, i still have friends think "if you get covid, you die." "Rapid testing? No way." "We need to protect the vulnerable." "Young, healthy people die too." -- my reply to the last one is that young, healthy people die of suicide, car accident, rare vaccine reaction too. There is no guarantee in life. And statistically speaking, young and healthy people die of covid is rare. I could possibly get it and die too. We really need to learn living with it as there is no guarantee that a vaccine would be here and 200 percent effective. I'm all for preventive measure. I know that some european countries have restrictions re-started because of hospital ICU bed capacity, which i think is a sensible measure. I'm all for protecting the old but am not sure if the restriction is doing more good than harm at the aged care at the moment. My QLD friend who works there told me that the old people are really missing visitors. She has seen them struggling with depression as a result of it.

    2 people found this helpful
  6. Haether
    Haether  avatar
    12 posts
    3 October 2020 in reply to blondguy
    Hi Paul - a very belated reply to your comment that the fact that I didn't really care if an elderly person in a nursing home lived a few less months (remembering the average life expectancy of someone in a nursing home is months) wasn't very caring towards elderly people in nursing homes. What you have done is shown negative attentional bias (as it is called in psychology). It's very common in people with mental illness. You've focused on the negative part of my statement, and ignored the positive. What you totally ignored was the bit right next to it where I said that I would be prepared to move heaven and earth to make the lives of elderly people in nursing homes livable while they are alive. That's something which should warm the cockles of an elderly person in a nursing home's heart.
    3 people found this helpful
  7. Haether
    Haether  avatar
    12 posts
    3 October 2020 in reply to lunastone
    I'm far more concerned for my quality of life than I am quantity of life, and a life lived in fear and hysteria doesn't turn me on.

    I was talking to a friend, a Pakistani paediatrician, and she said in Pakistan, the virus came, someone in every family got it, she thought, and it went away again. They have absolutely no restrictions, no quarantine, no nothing, in Pakistan. They also don't have a vulnerable elderly population. She said she hears of a 70, 80, 90 year old dying of Covid, and she thinks 'they had a pretty good innings' - they got to live to a ripe old age. She said in Pakistan, they're used to death, disease, terrorism, people dying - it barely registers. Here in Australia, a few hundred people die, of coronavirus, and the world is coming to an end. She does have an elderly grandmother, but she is debilitated, and wants to die - if her grandma died of the virus, nobody would be wringing their hands about her tragic death, they would recognise it as part of the natural cycle of life. She reckons our Covid hysteria is related to our secular state - if we had faith, we wouldn't be so terrified of death.
    3 people found this helpful
  8. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    6 October 2020 in reply to Haether

    Hi, Heather,

    I haven't been able to dig through the posts to find your old one. In any case, i agree with what you said here. When my friend died suddenly few months ago, it triggered me to see the whole covid response differently here in Australia as well as the thought of facing my own death. He didn't die of covid. He was only in his 40s. He might not have died if he had gone to the hospital early this year when the symptoms shown up. At the time, no one was dare to set foot in the hospital including myself. It was tragic and he left behind young children at home. No one would talk about his death because it is not covid. And i have seen a few new thread on BB that people in Melbourne are starting to feel like this is a punishment for other people wrong doing. It is not a quality of life. While we dont have any lockdown here in WA, i do feel for the people in Melbourne. Perhaps i should be grateful that we aren't in the lockdown but lose the choices of coming back to the State once leaving and leaving the country? I'm still steering clear to voice my thought as soon as i get a hint of people who are pro-lockdown or get paranoid as soon as there is one case positive pops up at the shopping centre.

    Yes, quality of life. My parents are old. The thought of them not having to see the grandkid for maybe another year is hurting them. People around them are dying so they do wonder when would be their time. They honestly prefer to spend the precious time alive with the grandkid. I should note that where they live and here are low risk but restrictions aren't allowed us to go anywhere at the moment (not even get to the quarantine part). We would be seen as those carrying virus from oversea (even self-paid quarantine) and be called selfish to travel. Again both low risk countries. When would this end? Anyone who isn't following blindly would know that it is all about the election. In any case, this is the time when one wishes to live closer to the family. In the meantime, restriction has started in some european countries but my friend chose the grandparents (the vulnerable) as their visit quota.

    And i keep mentioning about my job because i'm grieving. No one around me seems to sympathize that and sees it as a result of the overdoing restriction. Perhaps the silver lining (consolation prize( is that I haven't had to pull my kid out of school because of a new round of lockdown while i spend time looking for a new job.

    Hope everyone else is doing OK.

    3 people found this helpful
  9. Tangney
    Tangney avatar
    143 posts
    8 October 2020
    Hi everyone. I haven't posted for a while because, as Moonstruck and lunastone have alluded to, it seems as though the situation is hopeless. I thought, back in March, when these restrictions started being imposed that, knowing how govts operate, they would never want to lift them. Even in places like NSW, where I am, some restrictions have been lifted, but not all, and I don't see it happening any time soon. On the weekend, there was a lot media attention focused on what was portrayed as naughty people on the beaches. The truth was that each person was a towel length apart (another stupid rule) unless they were in a family group, in which case people are allowed to sit together. Yet, the media personalities ran around the beaches as if on steroids, more excited than they've been in weeks. Police patrols on the beaches have started again. Now there is a lot of excitement in the media again due to 3 cases in NSW. 3 cases in state of 8 million people and the media is reporting that this could "risk everything". Many of us knew how dangerous these ridiculous rules were when they were first imposed. In my opinion, many of these rules are unconstitutional and therefore illegal, yet people continue to blindly comply without question. The fact that the number of cases have dropped to almost nothing and yet the govt and the media is continuing to talk up the very few cases that exist leaves me with the view that those of us who knew that this would never end at the beginning were right. Even if they get a miracle vaccine, which is very doubtful, they aren't going to lift all of the restrictions. Our way of life is gone.
    2 people found this helpful
  10. Sophie_M
    Community Moderator
    • Works for beyondblue moderating these forums
    Sophie_M avatar
    3421 posts
    8 October 2020 in reply to Tangney
    Hi Tangney,

    We're sorry to hear that you feel the situation is hopeless. We understand that feeling this way might leave you feeling disheartened. Please know that even in dark times there is always hope and we will get through this together.

    Do remember that you are welcome to visit our Coronavirus Mental Wellbeing Support Service. The website will be regularly updated with information, advice and strategies to help you manage your wellbeing and mental health during this time. You might be interested in our page of avoiding news overload - https://coronavirus.beyondblue.org.au/managing-my-daily-life/coping-with-isolation-and-being-at-home/avoid-news-overload-with-the-sift-technique.html

    Thanks for reaching out today. If you would like to post further, please tell us more about what's on your mind and how we can best support you through this.


     
    1 person found this helpful
  11. Moonstruck
    Moonstruck avatar
    3364 posts
    8 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Dear Tangney....glad to have the chance to connect with you again. Just wanted to assure you, you are not alone in these thoughts....I feel the same as you do...I genuinely understand where you are coming from and have, from the first time you posted here.

    I am wondering how many others feel the same...and importantly, how many are brave enough to put it in writing...as you and I have.

    also wondering why so very many many people believe everything they are told by those in positions of authority.....without doing some checking first - some fact-finding and research of their own. Why don't they check things out for themselves?

    I have no answers for you Tangney.....because I am asking the same questions..you are right, life as we know it has gone.

    An activity that was a major factor in my healing and mental health management has been denied me due to restrictions...just gone, no indication when the restriction will be lifted. It has been particularly hard being without it, as I had a major bereavement (lost my partner) last May.

    I and others also involved are simply forbidden to partake in this healthy, satisfying, enriching, life-saving and again I stress the word "healing" activity.. being without it has been devastating for me all this year. There is no sign in the future or anything to aim for which would give us hope for being able to return to it. Luv...Moon S

    2 people found this helpful
  12. Bananie1234
    Bananie1234 avatar
    25 posts
    9 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Hi Tangney and everyone,

    I’m so glad to see your thread and it made me feel a bit better that I wasn’t the only one going through this. I’m starting to feel that border closures and fixation on number of cases is becoming unreasonable. They tell you they’re going for suppression when theyre going for eradication which isn’t reasonable. I work in healthcare even with vaccinations available like MMR, you’ll still see cases pop up. I can’t talk to anyone about it cos most people seem to support border closure for as long as possible. Even if they are unable to see their loved ones too, which sometimes make me feel really selfish.

    I’m from Auckland, so I haven’t been able to go home at all, i was heartbroken that I won’t be able to attend two of my closest friends’ wedding this weekend.

    My parents aren’t of NZ background, they spend half a year overseas and half a year in NZ and now they are stuck overseas unable to go back to NZ even though they are citizens because my mum is claustrophobic and the cost is too much since it’s all out of pocket now. it’s been 9 months without seeing them and I’m close with my family.

    i have a guy who I’ve been dating who is an Aussie expat overseas, he got the job and left just before the closures hit and now I haven’t seen him for 7 months. He wanted to come back for a long holiday but with the cap + travel ban for aussies it’s just not worth it. He also said youll need to get business class tickets to ensure you wont get bumped and it was 8000USD one way.

    I thought NSW borders might open up so i could go to sydney to meet a good friend but now that they’ve got cases it ain’t happening. NSW needs 28 days of no cases but it’s okay for for non aussie celebrities + AFL to come to QLD.

    i just don’t know what these premiers are going for anymore.
    I understand the seriousness of the virus but is it worth it to let others suffer (eg from suicide, DV) to “save” people that may or may not die from the virus? Even some oldies are getting more depressed cos they can’t go out. There are so many other diseases that kill but why is it that only deaths of covid-19 matter? I’ve always been happy with the restrictions but I’m not happy with holding people prisoners.
    Im happy to isolate but not when i have to pay thousands of dollars to isolate. It’s the government basically telling you to not leave and if you leave, don’t come back.

    3 people found this helpful
  13. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    10 October 2020 in reply to Bananie1234

    Hi, Bananie,

    you are not alone. Your thought is well shared here. I could write it myself. There are so many people out there who would just follow the authorities without fact checking. It occurs to me that some people don't even realize that they cannot leave Australia without permission if they are Aussies/PR. They couldn't believe me when i brought it up. They have no idea what they have given up their right for. They only see the side that once you leave, you can't come back. As i always said, better hope that oversea family is well and there is no need to leave Australia in an emergency. Yes, you can leave on a compassion ground but good luck in securing a flight out, especially from WA! I also find it hard to believe that everyone here is so pro closing the border as long as it takes. Everyone seems to buy the "vaccine" idea and the media is very good at selling that "hope" to people. Like you, i also realize that it isn't 100%. The fact that there is no covid circulating in Australia, we will be held prison in our own country for a LONG time. We are just avoiding the unavoidable at the moment. One thing i'm sure is that state election is coming up. You know what that means. Otherwise, there is really NO health reason for WA not to open up for NT, SA and Tasmania. I'm not the CHO but for those who can think a little deeper. It just makes no sense for the hard border closure in WA anymore. The thought of having truck drivers coming to WA scare a few people off is mind blowing. What do they think we can get food to WA if truck drivers can't even get in?! While i don't participate, the cancellation of xmas lolly run by the local council/fire station is a surprised to me. The santa/fireman throws the lolly pack out to the kids and doesn't even get off the truck! isn't that the whole point of border closure? So that we can live in this happy bubble and do whatever we want normal....it is completely laughable to my European friends. 1k daily rate is normal. At 4k new cases per day, they are back to restrictions. Even so, not a mandatory one but recommended. Note: there are other strains of coronavirus circulating at the moment in Australia -- said by a local GP after a friend visited. Well, no one seems to care and make it to the news.

    As i said, the only "positve" at the moment is that i don't have to worry about lockdown, WFH with the kid and look for a job at the same time. It nearly broke my family. Who knows. Financial stress soon to happen.

    2 people found this helpful
  14. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    10 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Tangney, glad to see you back on the thread again. I was a bit worried about everyone wellbeing after this thread has gone silent a bit. Moonstruck, i'm sorry. It takes a long time to grieve and to heal. Big hug.

    It is such a lost year. I'm not even looking forward to 2021 as it seems like another year of bunker down. It would be a miracle if we could even travel interstate again. The travel bubble seems to come and go........my child is the only reason that keeps me going and worth the living atm.

    Golden82, hope you are well.

    2 people found this helpful
  15. Bananie1234
    Bananie1234 avatar
    25 posts
    11 October 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Hi Lunastone,

    I'm surprsied that people don't know about the travelban! which reminds me a friend didn't even know there's a cap on how many aussies can return home resulting in many still stranded overseas!

    As a healthcare professional, it boggles my mind when people believe that vaccination will set all the restrictions free. yes it's true, but will the restrictions go away straight away?i believe vaccinations can eradicate covid-19 strainand i'll defs get it done to protect others knowing it's safe. but to create herd immunity, we need 90% of the population to be vaccinated and how long will that take? are we going to stay shut until then? your right, coronavirus is not new, covid-19 strain is new. so it's not unusual if there's a different strain out there, they mutate all the time like influenza which is why it is recommended to get flu shots every year as the strains are always different. does this mean we are getting vaccinations every year for coronavirus as well?or we are just getting vaccinated for covid-19 strain?i think the media/government are not giving people the full perspective and are giving people false hope. i think poeple are scared because they don't understand the full picture and are unable to remain calm in the storm.

    we are so focused on covid cases ( even if there's no death) that we forget about others suffering. a death from covid is definitely sad, but is death from suicide or poverty due to restrictions not as sad? we need to continue to keep the curve flat but not allowing an increase of other deaths that could be prevented as well.

    I was happy to be locked in at first to flatten the curve but it's clear they are going for eradication and they won't admit. i can understand how victoria needs to be slow and steady but i dont understand why other states need to be so strict. in the end i think NSW did best job, gladys has always said it's to flatten the curve not eradicate it. nsw was not as tough on borders and they didn't have any increase in deaths and they will be the first to benefit from the travel bubble.

    we can't stay shut forever, we don't have to open up to badly affected countries like USA but countries that have less cases.

    i hope you continue to stay well, i didn't realise how much this would impact me too and it also hurts for me to see others going through much worse than i am.

    2 people found this helpful
  16. Isaac98
    Isaac98 avatar
    18 posts
    11 October 2020 in reply to Tangney
    I know how y'all feel including you Moonstruck, those "positives" are just excuses for authoritarianism which are unsurprisingly on here since BeyondBlue is managed by former politicians.
    2 people found this helpful
  17. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    11 October 2020 in reply to Bananie1234

    Hi, Bananie,

    I still see people posted on premier social media page saluting the hard border closure and condemning fellow aussies who haven't made it back yet! As for herd immunity, you are absolutely right and have said it all. But the majority of people seem to get defensive/offended when that is being mentioned. When i kindly explained what it is, by no mean of opening the flood gate, people immediately throw Sweden/US/UK as an example at me. Vaccine, is clearly one method of reaching that herd immunity. For some reasons, the same group of people who can accept the idea of waiting for a vaccine but refuse the idea of herd immunity. Contradict much? I wish media would focus on educating people about epidemiology than creating fear. Without the vaccine, it is going to be a long ride with waves (control measure) until herd immunity is reached.

    Like you, I was also all for the restrictions at the beginning. At the moment, nothing makes any sense. As for NSW, it is working for them BUT other states aren't so keen on this 'flatten the curve' strategy. It means some states won't open the border for them. Well, WA wont' open to any. Period. Anyway, not so looking forward to 2021 when i will be jobless and stuck in this bubble. Life is a bit meaningless without the family and friends.

    1 person found this helpful
  18. Moonstruck
    Moonstruck avatar
    3364 posts
    12 October 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Hi Lunastone.....whenever I try to subtly, ever so subtly allude to my position on this hysterical, ongoing, unbelievable drama....I have UK, US and Sweden thrown at me too! So I may as well just shut up! as for "spreading fear".....I'm afraid the media THRIVES on fear.....do people realise that?

    From Day One, did you notice the TV Newsreaders and commentators' heavy frowns, deep and dramatic voices lowered but thundering, to announce our impending doom? Yes fear is catching isnt it? Spreads very fast too...and there's no cure!

    Huge headlines in the papers....Police on horseback patrolling innocent picnics in parks, interrogating innocent folk walking along the beach.......Army personnel guarding borders....put all that (and much more I haven't room to list) and you have a pandemic of FEAR.....and our those politicians who are playing into our fear for their own gains are loving every minute of it....it gives them more CONTROL .

    We are but pawns in their chess game....and each state is under a different regime, different rules, different leaders...no wonder "our" country is crumbling before our eyes.

    1 person found this helpful
  19. Isaac98
    Isaac98 avatar
    18 posts
    12 October 2020 in reply to Moonstruck
    Unfortunately Moon, that's how governments work. They mostly care about maintaining their system than helping their people, they're like cartels but more civil so I don't recommend trusting anything government-related at all. Though, don't totally be like me in that regard because I can't make real life friends due to how bitter I am with our society.
    1 person found this helpful
  20. Tangney
    Tangney avatar
    143 posts
    18 October 2020
    Hi everyone. I'm hoping that Victoria gets some freedom back today, but I'm not very hopeful. A friend in Melbourne said that when the curfew was lifted, it made no difference because everything was still closed, which made her more angry. It's interesting that the media is now turning on the Vic govt when they were all in favour of the cruel and brutal restrictions for at least six months, whilst painting any other point of view as being treasonous. As we all know, the media thrives of sensationalism and fear mongering, as this provides ratings, and "clicks" on stories determines how much of the same stuff will be repeated in future editions, but in this case, the media has been acting as if its an arm of the state - cheer leaders blindly supporting every single government around the country that has locked its own people up and stopped ordinary business from carrying on. The "old chestnut" about Sweden/UK/USA is also based on false premises, which I've tried to explain to "friends" many times, without much success. Britain has never had the same testing regime as Australia. In Britain, most people can't get tested. Most diagnoses of Covid 19 in Britain on physical examination only. I have a friend in the UK was counted as a case back in April, but still isn't really sure whether she had it or not as she was never tested. In Britain, it seems as though you have to be Prince Charles, the PM, the Queen, or one of their employees to be able to get a test. In contrast, Australian govts are begging healthy people to get tested to keep the number up. In Sweden, it's my understanding that there is widespread support throughout the population for the approach to keep things open. The death rate is going down. In the USA, they don't have free universal health care and tests are expensive. Even then, the death rate is still a really small percentage of the 360 million population. Lack of scrutiny of the reported statistics is breathtaking. It's amazing how many people suddenly trust the government in all things, even though it's clear that govt incompetence and failure, supported by media, is entirely responsible for the mess. 7000 ventilators are "on stand by" all around the country. Huge amounts of money spent on ventilators that are not, and never would be, needed. No wonder they beg people to be tested. They need to find some cases each day to justify the bad decisions and maybe even use some ventilators that are currently laying idle.
    1 person found this helpful
  21. Tangney
    Tangney avatar
    143 posts
    18 October 2020

    Also, just to add to my previous post, I've noticed how little Japan is ever mentioned in our media. Japan has never been completely locked down. Gyms have remained open etc. They have a govt that has managed the virus while allowing people to get on with their lives. I have a couple of former colleagues in Japan, who are constantly being badgered by other Australian friends that are urging them to come back home, due to the danger. Guess what? They are staying in Japan, where they are safe and well while getting on with things. They have no intention of returning to this country any time soon, if ever. Funny how the Australian media doesn't focus on the Japanese experience, isn't it. Japan isn't scary enough. It's a success story, hence the reason that the Australian govt is currently in talks with the Japanese about being included in a travel bubble. It makes me wonder about the "brain drain" that all of this is likely to bring about. Anyone with any sense and the ability to work elsewhere is likely to leave this country as soon as they can get out. There will be a mass exodus due to the disillusionment that has set in now that the "Aussie larrikin" image has been laid bare as a great big lie.

    To our Victorian friends, I'm glad there is some easing of restrictions from today's announcement, but the rules are still a long way from being reasonable. It seems ridiculous that in NSW, there was never any restriction on singles tennis matches, golf, outdoor photography or hairdressing yet these rules have been imposed on Victorians since March. I hope that people don't feel too grateful to the govt that it's now allowing them to have 2 visitors in a home and increasing the travel distance from 5km to 25km. Victorians should have full freedom of movement, as should we all.

    2 people found this helpful
  22. Isaac98
    Isaac98 avatar
    18 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Tangney
    Nothing's going to change unfortunately.. All you can do is run away from this shitty country, I wish I could but it'll be a long time since I don't know how to be independent.
    1 person found this helpful
  23. Sausage Dog
    Sausage Dog avatar
    3 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Isaac98

    Hello Tangney and others

    victorians were thrown a few crumbs today, however many small business still cannot open despite cases being so low - even in regional Vic where numbers have been a lot lower than Melbourne. My husband wants the gym to open for his mental health, but they are not allowed And swim schools still cannot operate so my son will continue to fall behind on that. As for me I hate, hate, hate the mask mandate. In most situations it does not make sense yet we are forced to wear these things on our face. I went to the beach a couple of weeks back and it was just the dumbest thing I have ever seen people wearing masks in the open where there is heaps of space. We have been told they will remain mandatory over summer. It is going to be horrible, especially for us outdoor workers. I feel sorry for school kids having to wear them while in the classroom all day.

    it feels like this insanity will never end

    2 people found this helpful
  24. Tangney
    Tangney avatar
    143 posts
    18 October 2020

    Hi Sausage Dog.

    I was speaking to a friend in Melbourne earlier who said that masks will be mandatory for months. I was horrified and saddened for all there. Apart from all of the reasons why this makes no sense given the miniscule number of cases, I can only imagine how hot it will be to wear a mask in summer. It's almost like a punishment for people who want to go out. I believe it will probably cause more health issues than it will resolve. It looks to me like the govt is looking for any excuse not to lift restrictions, despite what they keep telling people. It's easy to govern when you've scared people into hysteria and have them under complete control. But does it mean that they have no confidence in their own management of the virus that they force 6.5 million people to wear masks even though there were only 2 new cases today? It's difficult to believe that this real.

    The next excuse against the easing of restrictions will be that NZers are running amok through Vic and that all Victorians must be locked away even though NZers can come to Sydney and no-one here is bothered at all, especially as NZ has zero community transmission, which equals zero risk. But from what I saw at the press conference this morning, the Premier appeared to be gleeful about the "confusion" (seemingly created entirely by him) regarding innocent NZ travellers who will cause no harm to anyone.

    There was a news report a couple of days ago that 75 percent of those fined in Vic for alleged breaches of restrictions haven't paid the fines. It will be interesting to see what the govt does about that. It seems that they are waiving fines for some people because the penny finally dropped regarding fines being counter productive to encouraging people to provide honest information about their movements for contact tracing. Apparently, the disincentive to honesty wasn't foreseen in yet another public policy failure.

    It seems as though those in govt think releasing the restrictions will be seen as a back down on their part. I think they've made such a big thing about this, which was really a hysterical reaction, and now, having backed themselves into a corner, they are trying to save face at the expense of the freedoms of Victorians. I think the govt should resign if they can't manage the reopening and let someone else take over who can.

    I feel for your Sausage Dog. I hope there are no happenings this week that put any of the eased restrictions in jeopardy.

    1 person found this helpful
  25. Hanna3
    Hanna3 avatar
    1781 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Hi Tangney,

    Japan is an interesting case - there are several theories about why they have been reasonably successful so far, it's worth reading some articles - they still have a lot of infection and deaths though and are worried the cases are rising. From what I've read the scientists and epidemiologists think it's due to several factors: a culture of mask wearing already in place (they wear them if they have a cold or to prevent hay fever etc); they are a very conformist population who take the restrictions on their activity seriously & abide by them; they do not kiss or hug much and are very hygiene conscious; there is some evidence the virus in some areas such as Japan is a mutation and not the same as the virus in Europe; Japanese people are generally slim, not overweight (obesity is a risk factor with C-19); they have great respect for their elderly and are anxious to protect them.

    It's worth reading about in the scientific journals online. Cheers.

    1 person found this helpful
  26. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Hi, Tangney et al.

    I haven't been checking the media lately. A random conversation with a friend through the internet, WA supposes to lift all restrictions this/next weekend. From the sound of it, it is not happening. To be honest, other than my work place, which is still following the 2x2 sqm rule, most small restaurants/cafe don't seem to follow it anymore. I actually thought that the rules have been dropped without me knowing it. I have a look at the new Victoria restrictions. Wow....i am a bit speechless.

    As for Japan (Asia in general), there is a mask culture. I think the majority of the people here want the new kind of freedom of no mask, no preventive measure and thus supporting of the border closure indefinitely. I don't want to get into mask debate. As for preventive measure, I have been doing it with or without COVID anyway. Maybe just not following the 1.5m rule during non-pandemic time. Europe is seeing second wave. This is as expected if anything teaches us about epidemiology. I have checked out Germany new restrictions as they have done reasonable well during the first wave. To me, it is not as draconian. The restriction is based on hotspot model as well as population per sqm. It makes sense come to think of it. Vic regional, sparse population area shouldn't have to subject to the strict ones as compared to melbourne with denser population. Anyway, irrelevant as 1 is too many here! China seems to drop off the news too. I think media likes to focus on the extreme, UK/US/Sweden, Aus and NZ (fantastic job of getting it ZERO but neglect the fact of destroying the entire economy).

  27. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Tangney

    Hi, Tangney,

    yes. it makes no sense to me why we are not opening up to NZ when the risk is minimal. OK, let's not talk about NZ. WA isn't open to any states! Making any sense? As for 'brain drain', it won't be just people leaving as a result. The conservative policies here have put off a lot of oversea entrepreneurs to start businesses here. I have been thinking about leaving Australia for years when i realized that the job opportunities in high tech sector are extremely limited, govt seems too focus on mining (WA in particularly) and refuses to diversify. With covid, it is even more evident. i.e. The only profession/people that are allowed to fly at the moment are FIFO out workers. Gas and oil industry has started laid off people. University has cut staff. I'll not have a job (highly specialized field) in few months as my work isn't renewing my contract -- without business with the east and internationally, I'm redundant. Unemployment rate will go higher in the months to come. Yet, the continue border closure and rising popularity of our premier. I just can't get around with the mind of the majority of people. Who is the selfish one here? I'm offended to be called selfish for wanting a bit more freedom for the interstate businesses (not even talk about international!). Unfortunately, i have a hard time convincing my husband to move even I indicated the limited high tech job opportunities here in WA. Perhaps he will change his mind once i no longer work....the financial stress and unhappiness etc.

    On a separate question, I don't think it is a wise idea to mention about depression to my boss? He asked my colleague if i was OK the other day. Colleague talked to me privately. Clearly, my standard reply is "stress" with over work atm. The truth is that who is in the right mind to attend work function while I'm about to lose a job/not having a future for what i work hard for right now. I'm in tears from time to time......guess what, I couldn't get myself out of bed this morning. Luckily, my husband took the kid out so i could continue to be sad and did nothing. I ended up in bed the whole day until they got home this late afternoon. Maybe time to get professional help.....

  28. lunastone
    lunastone avatar
    58 posts
    18 October 2020 in reply to Hanna3

    Hi, Hanna3,

    i was typing the response before seeing yours. Yes, i agree with you. I see mask culture plays a big part in many asian countries. I have known a Japanese family here who wouldn't agree on a playdate if my child had a sniffle. This happened at non-covid time. And they wear mask if they were sick and absolutely needed to be out in public places like supermarket. Japanese also eats more fish and seafood in general than the red meat so less health issues.

    Sausage dog, i personally don't mind the mask but i agree with you that it is kinda pointless at certain situation. I won't be keen to wear one going for a bush walk away from any human being. I feel sorry for the victorian. Maybe I should appreciate what we have here (like everyone else thinks that it is OK to live in this bubble forever).

  29. quirkywords
    Community Champion
    • Outstanding members who have volunteered their time to support others here on the forums
    • A member of beyondblue's blueVoices community
    quirkywords avatar
    8010 posts
    19 October 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Hello everyone

    I am glad people have this space to share their thoughts and ideas. I find it interesting to read different views and opinions.

    Hanna you make an interesting point about different cultures so it does make it hard to make comparisons.

  30. Bananie1234
    Bananie1234 avatar
    25 posts
    19 October 2020 in reply to lunastone

    Hi Lunastone,

    “ I think the majority of the people here want the new kind of freedom of no mask, no preventive measure and thus supporting of the border closure indefinitely”i totally agree with you.

    I personally wouldn’t mind wearing face masks if it gives me my freedom back. But i agree, I wouldn’t want to wear it during a bush walk or something.

    I think the reason why most east asian countries that are so close to china (eg. Taiwan, south korea, japan and even hongkong) managed to flatten the curve so quickly without lockdown is because of face masks. And no, they don’t change it every 2 hours like what we see on media. In most asian countries, not everybody wears them when sick (although some do) but In situations like this, everybody is very compliant and abide the rules voluntarily.

    I’m pretty positive, nobody likes to wear a face mask especially during summer. its also so much harder to social distance in asian countries as they have a much higher population density. So if they managed it without lockdown, it’ll have to come down to face masks and personal hygiene.

    i also think asian countries are handling it much better because of SARS. Which is why the people knew what to do and are willing to follow restrictions voluntarily and remain calm and cautious. Therefore, the government didn’t have to implement a harsh lockdown.

    1 person found this helpful

Stay in touch with us

Sign up below for regular emails filled with information, advice and support for you or your loved ones.


Sign me up