Hi Daniel,

I'm just wondering if you're feeling down because it's a Saturday night and I guess you are alone?

You're at a tough time in life when your friends are getting paired off and you're naturally feeling left out of things. It isn't an easy time!

Is there anyone in your family you can talk to about the pressure you feel from your parents? Is the psychologist you're seeing someone you feel comfortable talking to about how you are feeling?

You really only need a couple of good friends to make you feel so much better. I know it's hard but keep occupied with your sports and whatever other activities you can find.

Could you try chatting with other people here on the forums, maybe try the Cafe or some of the games here? It's a way to get to know a few people who maybe can give you some "company" and support when you feel a bit down or just want to chat!

I don't know if you live at home or on your own. Have you thought of sharing a house with someone? A flatmate or two might be good company?

What are your feelings about these suggestions? What do you think you might help?

I just wonder if others here on BB might have some suggestions that might be helpful to you.

Anyway these are just some ideas. I'm sorry you're feeling down. Keep talking to people here!

🙂 👍

Please excuse typos Daniel as I am typing this on my phone and it's awkward! 🙂

Hi again Daniel,

Don't discount random meetings as a way of meeting people. Browsing in a book shop, going to a Cafe alone and getting chatting with someone there, or at the book store - going to an art exhibition, a play, these are ways you can get chatting with people. Get to be a regular so the Cafe staff, bookstore owner, know you. See a girl who looks nice browsing in the bookstore/library/art gallery too? Think of a reason to say something to her, like "I notice you're interested in *******( whatever the subject/author/artist etc) is - and say you're interested in it too, or you read this author's books too, and have they read etc etc? (name the books)

Do you drive a car? What about a day trip on the weekend to a winery or any place you may like to visit that interests you?

There was a man on the news tonight - he must have been at least 50 - who said as a young man he went on a weekend trip on a sailing ship that taught young people how to sail a boat and he met his future wife there that weekend!

Daniel do you think you could try some new things like these? And practice just starting up friendly discussions with people you don't know? Sure, some people won't be interested in talking so then try again with someone else and don't take it personally.

I know you are finding the discussions with The Rising helpful which is great, but what about setting yourself some goals to try small things like these that get you meeting new people and starting up conversations with people you don't know?

Like the man who went sailing, you might just meet the right girl!

Could you try some of these things?

What do you think?

Daniel,

Last thing and then I'll finish, but I think you think if people aren't interested it's always about you. Well I moved to this inland large town two years ago, just in time for the summer of terrible bushfires which were very bad here and then it's been covid and lockdowns ever since.

You'd think that would make people be friendlier as we're all going through it together, but not in this town!

People here have been so closed off and unfriendly I've been wondering what's wrong with me. Where I lived before people were pretty darn friendly and easy going and so I didn't know anything different.

I've lost count of the number of people I've tried to just say hi to when I'm out on a walk and they look the other way and never say anything.

I've been wondering what I'm doing wrong.

We'll yesterday it was raining and I had a seat under cover at a take away coffee place. This lovely man waiting for his coffee noticed my little dog with me and I asked if he had a dog and he said how he'd love one but he couldn't, and we started chatting.

Turns out he was a long distance distance truck driver and gosh we had an interesting talk together. He was so friendly, maybe because he was glad of someone to talk to as he spends days alone driving.

So I realised it's not me, it just took one stranger in a coffee queue to be friendly and I remembered how easy it used to be to have conversations with people I didn't know! The people here really are unfriendly a lot of the time and others new to the town have told me the same thing.

So plenty of people won't want to bother being friendly with you. You just need to keep going and find the jewels who will be friendly and one of them may turn out to be the girl of your dreams, like the man who went sailing I told you about!

So don't beat yourself up that it's you all the time like I've been thinking here. Lots of people aren't friendly. Walk away and find the great people who will appreciate you taking the time to be friendly and talk to them.

That man doesn't know it, but he made my day! You might just make someone else's day!

Give it a go! 😊👍

Hi Daniel

I think while we can have much of what others dream of having (a roof over our head, a good job, good health etc), we can still be facing one of the toughest times of our life. We don't necessarily fully realise it as being one of the toughest times until we look back in hindsight. Looking back offers us the chance to say 'I can't believe I made it through that. I'm incredible'. One of the things that makes it so tough is not being able to make sense of things. If we had all the answers, it wouldn't be anywhere near as hard.

As I've mentioned before, I believe we have many parts or aspects to our self. Sometimes I wonder whether there's some order to them, when it comes to which ones come to life ahead of others. Does 'auto pilot' exist before the thinker, the philosopher or the questioner? Do we live a life somewhat on auto pilot, with many of the mental programs instilled by others dictating our flight plan to some degree? Does the intolerant sense of self come to life beyond the people pleaser who's been pleasing largely selfish people? Does the introvert in us come to life only after we've learned to be cautious of those who don't deserve our time, trust and attention? So, you could have dozens of aspects of self just waiting to come to life. Personally, I've found there are certain aspects of myself that don't allow other parts to come to life. I think of the fearful aspect of myself that doesn't allow room for the risk taker in me to grow. My brother recognised this some years ago, in himself. He put it down to the way we were raised, to some degree. We were raised to fear what could go wrong, so we played it safe. 'The safe player' definitely doesn't allow room for growth, for change, when that part of us is always in charge. My brother, over the years, through many challenges he's taken on has managed to balance the safe player and risk taker parts of himself.

I think we can still feel some element of fear as a risk taker. Basically, I suppose we're feeling the risk itself in ways, if that makes sense. With the more risks we take, perhaps we gradually become desensitised to the fear factor to some degree. Things become easier. Some folk even come to thrive on feeling what comes with risk; they love the challenge and/or the adrenaline.

To fear rejection can stop us from taking necessary risks throughout the lead up to finding those who are exactly the kind of people we've been looking for. It can take time and work to find such people.

Hi Daniel

Welcome, how are u?

I think it's normal and OK at Ur age to feel a bit esitatn and alone at times....and seeing groups of ppl happy together, how do we know truly ho happy they are, they may be banded together by drugs, alcohol or maybe they all hang out excuse none have work and they pass time together.

I'm wandering if he heard of acceptance commitment therapy, it seems in line with what u write, able having anxieties and depressed thoughts but still wanted to move towards goals and see change.

In ACT they look at it as values, and it's about what person Ur want to be, living with which values etc...rather than what u want ie friends, relatio ships,

If u were living Ur best life, being who u wish, what sort of partner would u be?

For me, I have values of authenticity, and fun, and sportive.

I'd want to be a supportive person, who can enjoy and be fun in the moment.

I relate to not knowing if use made progress. Can u write down the areas where u are trying to see change?

For a while myself I was getting worse in my mh, and I wasn't even in tune with it, I just had a confused feeling.

Take care xx

Hi Hanna

Thank you for all the suggestions and kind words of support and advice I greatly appreciate your help, you are very wise and kind hearted to do that!

I think you may be right that it being a Saturday night and being alone contributes to my down period. I get really uncomfortable about it sometimes and I allow things I see on social media to fester in my mind and allow it to affect my mental state.

I have spoken with my doctor about the pressure from the family, she has helped a lot with it sometimes it's just inevitable that it weighs on me because it sort of goes deeper than my parents it's like ingrained in my culture. For example my sisters wedding is coming up in March and I don't have a partner so I already expect continues questioning all night which will just make me down on myself again.

I have blamed myself a lot for interactions I have, feels like I am missing something that attracts people. During lockdowns theres a few walking tracks around my area and I made an effort, and still am, to say hello to passers by even if it's just a quick hello. In my own way it helped me to feel a bit better during lockdown periods.

I would usually go to the gym quite late at night when there weren't people around so I could be in peace while I worked out but I realised I was probably avoiding people as well because I felt ashamed. So I decided to start going at peak times and have tried to become more regularly known to people, there are some people I speak to on my way in and out which is good.

Also, work now being predominantly from home hasn't helped me because as soon as I got comfortable we had to go from home which has it's perks but I guess I lack some of the face to face connections.

In those moments on a Saturday night for example I just feel ashamed that I'm a 25 yr old guy that has nothing to do or I tried to make plans and they fall through and it's happening with more frequency these days.

My friend has set up a dinner with his girlfriend and her friend so I can meet someone and I feel pressure already to be "liked", I hope I can get out of this down phase before I have to go to this but my fear is I will be ruled by my mind on this night and not let the real me show.

Thanks again for all your help

Daniel

Hi therising

I think you are spot on that not being able to make sense of things makes it incredibly tough as this is exactly how it feels when I go on a "downer", I can't understand how I can go from being positive about my progress to not seeing it at all. I worry that there is just something wrong with me as how can someone be so widly sporadic in their thoughts.

Maybe I need to learn how to trigger the right sense of self as you put it at the appropriate times. I am not really sure how I would go about doing this as I may not have the emotional intelligence to do this but I can try. I can relate to you and your brothers sentiments about that fear factor sort of as a result of upbringing. I think my parents very much steered myself and my siblings always down the right paths and had very black and white standards for lack of a better term of right and wrong, or safe option and risky option. I think we always went down the safe route as well and part of it for me was a bit of fear or rejection and disappointing my parents if I failed.

If I think about it probably best example of this was at the end of VCE when I basically had the entire family tell me prior to VCE not to go to uni and do a trade. Its not that this was bad or ill-intentioned advice but the safe player as you put it inside me just accepted it and thats what I found myself doing after VCE even though I never felt my heart was in it. There was also fear of rejection and disappointing my parents which made me never speak up about it, what ensued was 2 years of failed job trial after failed job trial, getting screwed over by dishonest companies who promised jobs etc. Luckily I did well enough at school to get into engineering but I would say that's the biggest risk I have taken.

I seem to be able to apply this to professional life but socially I don't seem to have the courage to take a risk because I feel ashamed or pressured in myself to be liked. Like this dinner coming up with my friend I mentioned below I am incredibly anxious as to how to approach this, id like to even just make a new friend but I am so worried that I don't have an attractive personality to even do this or like I always say I am too boring. Thats the tape that is already playing in my head so by the time I go there next Saturday I bet I will be rife with anxiety and I will ruin another opportunity for myself.

Do you ever feel this way or experienced this prior to going somewhere? How have you managed it?

Hi Daniel

It sounds like you're taking some steps like changing the time you go to the gym which is great.

Covid has made things much more difficult for you but keep putting yourself out there! The more you can mix the easier it will be and you're more likely to meet someone!

I know the wedding is difficult, is there a girl who is a friend of yours or the family who would accompany you just for that occasion? I have done that sort of thing in the past for friends and colleagues who needed a woman partner for a special occasion.

Re the dinner, can you take the pressure off by telling yourself that you only expect the evening to be pleasant and don't constantly worry if this girl will be the one, or will reject you?

So often we meet the right people when we're not looking and not expecting it! Your anxiety is only going to make you shoot yourself in the foot if you overdo your expectations! Can you just think of it as a nice evening out?

Did you get any comments from the women you met and dated about why they weren't interested in pursuing a relationship? Not that you have to say anything here, just wondering if they gave you any pointers about what you could work on?

Women tend to make friendships more easily than guys, so try to be less hard on yourself. You only have to be lucky once!

Keep getting out and about!

🙂👍

Hi Hanna

Thanks again for your sound advice!

Im going to try as uncomfortable as I get sometimes in myself when I put myself out there, maybe that’s just part of it I guess.

I don’t really know anyone that I could do that with for the wedding and also knowing my family they would make a huge deal over it and for starters I wouldn’t want to make the other person awkward.

I will try to think of it that way, that’s what I keep trying to tell myself to ease pressure off myself. I even wrote it down lol. When it was first mentioned my mindset was relaxed and felt good to just go out unfortunately I have a bad habit of letting thoughts snowball. I am trying to remind myself when I start thinking too hard about it that if I’m just myself and enjoy the night it will be fine even if nothing happens.

The usual feedback I get is that I’m a really nice guy but would be better to be friends that’s the common theme. That sort of makes me feel like well yeah I’m a nice person I try to be but that’s not all I am there has to be more to me. I always try to stay that way when I go out with a new date, nice and down to earth I mean. When it gets mentioned a couple times in a row it sounds silly but it makes you think there’s something unattractive about being that would or I don’t come across in a way that sparks attraction like other guys would.

My psychologist suggested that a lot of people would find my more calm, down to earth nature where over time I come out of my shell a lot more attractive as you learn something new each time. She says she’s impressed with the way I come across to her but I guess she might just be saying that. She also suggested that it can also be timing and million other reasons that could be unrelated to you I guess I find it hard to think that way when it seems to be a repeating cycle. I guess sometimes I take being called a nice guy as an insult because it’s always followed by a “but”.

I definitely understand there are things I’ve had to improve on as well, I feel when I first starting dating I put too much pressure on it early on not so much that I did anything specific but because my mindset was line that I probably didn’t come off relaxed.

I feel I have improved a little with this but I’m trying to still be just my down time earth self. I am nice but I’m not overly nice to the point where it’s a bit much that’s the distinction I’d want to make. I don’t I’m confused about it haha

thanks again

Most dates end with ppl wanting to be friends...or never seeing each other again ...so it's not too harsh, it could just be the wrong fit, or there hung up on an ex...

I would recommend having a light and gentle approach to a date.

If u qill be heartbroken by a no, that's already already intense starting point. If u can accept that perhaps it'll go nowhere, and Ur just seeing how a new person's company feels....no disappointments.

A date is just a date. It's OK if it is just one date.

Hi Daniel

Sleepy has put it better than me. You need to chill a bit! You're still young and you've got time to find someone.

What the girls have said to you is a standard response. Your psychologist is right, they just mean you're not for them and that could be for a thousand reasons! I've said that to a guy, it didn't mean there was anything wrong with them.

Remember you only have to find one! It takes time. Relationships are tricky.

Try to enjoy meeting people and try to be a bit less worried. It will happen when it happens. Take the opportunity to find out what sort of person suits you.

OK? You will be fine. Let us know how the dinner goes anyway! Try to relax and just enjoy yourself my friend! I do understand it's hard, but anxiety is not your friend. Try to put the young woman at ease, she's most likely a bit anxious too!

🙂👍🤗

Hi Hanna

Thanks so much for your ongoing support

I figure that’s what it is after speaking with my psychologist, I’m definitely trying my best to take your advice and just relax about the whole thing.

I guess it’s sort of the first thing that pops to mind when I’m in a bit of mental state for lack of a better term. I just seem to spiral a bit in my thinking when it starts until I calm down a bit. Probably doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

It is a tiring process it’s like my minds goes haywire at different times and it increases my anxiety tenfold and it just keeps festering in lead up to events or when I’m on my own.

Hopefully I can calm myself down a bit during the week, maybe work can be a distraction and I can approach it care free

Thanks again Hanna

Hi Daniel

I suppose the 'You're a nice guy but...' thing comes down to 'are we really suited to each other?'. You could have a super hyper girl who's looking for someone who can keep up with her level of energy. You could have an super serious girl who can't tolerate a guy who's laid back and lighthearted. You could have a basically energetic and adventurous girl who can't tolerate the idea of sitting around not doing much, letting life pass by. A girl who loves music and dancing may not have much of an interest in a guy who never goes clubbing and isn't into music all that much. To get some idea, ahead of time, who you're interacting with could make some difference.

To find out you're meeting someone who likes to have a few ventures on the go, for example, offers an advantage. You have a few ventures on the go or starting up this year. You have a promotion at work, soccer coaching, the all sports aspect, the gym and the biggest one of all...your plan to further develop your self. 'This is my year to start really getting out there and experiment with finding what I love doing and what I don't like doing' can be an interesting lead in to a conversation. It shows you're open minded, wonderful (full of wonder), adventurous, a basic goal setter and seriously interested in connecting with life. The goal of naturally boosting your energy levels can be another one. 'I'm going to work on developing so much energy that I'll barely recognise myself by the end of the year' sounds fascinating. So, you can actually talk about your future self if you think your present self is something you don't really want to discuss all the much. Talk about the high energy, adventurous fun loving guy you're planning on becoming and then, perhaps, ask for ideas. One thing I love to ask energetic people is 'How do you manage to gain and maintain so much energy?' To me, it's a fascinating topic. I just love knowing how people gain and maintain their energy. I get a whole variety of answers or should that be 'tips' that I seriously need. A key one is 'inspiration'. Inspiration followed by action followed by satisfaction is a natural energy booster. While this process is a natural energy booster on a soulful level, dopamine offers additional energy. Nothing quite like feeling surges of dopamine to the brain to get us pumped, as we experience a sense of achievement.

I've found feeling a lack of energy or a lack of the right kind of energy to be a trigger for depression, for me.

Hi therising


I think you may be right and when I feel my mind is more relaxed I think of it as you described, that it probably is just not the right match. I think part of the issue where I think is solely my fault is that a couple times it’s happened in particular was with people I had a lot in common in and it was sort of sprung on me when things seemed to be going well. Now for the way I think deeply (too deeply at times) that type of thing just made me speculate probably far too much as to what I did/have done wrong. It’s never really got anything to do with the other person it’s a habit of analysing every part of myself in situations until I find an answer of what I did.


A friend of mine said, if nothing else if your foundation as a person is coming across as nice then that’s a good thing it’s just about building upon that to show the other parts of me that are in there. I think going through this journey of working at where I fit in and who I am alongside trying to find a partner probably is a tough balancing act because I’m learning about myself as I go.


I think the dating stuff is probably the biggest trigger of the main issue I feel I have which is not being able to just calm my thinking down so I don’t overload myself as I’ve mentioned before. I don’t know if some of the things I’ve committed to trying this year is a sign of progress at all because I still feel I have weeks where I’m almost like “hyper” from thinking way too much and the thoughts can be really illogical, things that I even know I shouldn’t worry about but somehow find there way in again and again.


I think using a lot of the advice you have given me on here and others has definitely helped and I make note of it and try to remember to practice it everyday. I think this is going to take a while though given the habit of overthinking I’ve developed since I was a kid :)

Hi Daniel,

This overthinking must be exhausting for you. I know it can be really dispiriting when your mind seems to go back over and over things rather than move forward.

I wonder how you would feel about talking with your psych about ways to deal with it?

I haven't got much time to post currently, but I hope things go OK for you and maybe you can get some suggestions about challenging the unhelpful thoughts? It sounds like it wears you down quite a bit and it might be worth trying some techniques to help stop it being quite so bad.

I hope you have a good week and that things will pick up for you!

You do seem to be making some great efforts to improve your situation, well done and keep it up!

Cheers! 🙂

Hi Daniel

I believe your friend is absolutely spot on regarding a nice foundation to be built upon. Such a foundation is something to be proud of. Some folk can have pretty questionable foundations.

I think we learn a lot from the people around us. We can learn from others that we have a good foundation, for example. This can be communicated to us in a variety of ways. We can gradually learn from others what we can and can't tolerate. We can learn from people who trigger us, what our triggers actually are. We can learn we are excitable when people trigger us to excitement and we can learn we are deeply empathetic based on those who trigger us to tears as we feel their pain. I would have to say some of the most confusing people of all are those who lead us to learn little or nothing about our self.

We could meet a new friend or potential partner as a complete stranger at 1st. If they give us no hint at all, if they communicate nothing to us as to why they just don't vibe with us, they have taught us nothing. We can be left with the question which replays over and over 'What's the problem here?'. I suppose it's like trying to learn about our self, what we're doing 'right' or 'wrong' with no intel to help us work it out. The fact that they don't communicate anything of use is not our fault. If we face a long line of poor communicators it can become more confusing than ever. To make things even worse, we can be left trying to interpret body language. 'What is their body language telling me?'. Our brain will be looking for any form of intel. The problem with body language is...it can misinterpreted at times, leading us to form the wrong conclusions or beliefs.

Life would be so much easier if people were great, considerate and thoughtful communicators. We could learn so much from meeting such people. Unfortunately, we can be left with more questions than answers at times, forever searching for answers to satisfy our self, to learn from.

I've found, gradually learning more about myself is so much slower and tedious when I've got no one around me leading me to understand myself better. Self understanding can move at a snail's pace when next to no one's helping us understand our self in a way we can relate to :)

Hi therising


I think you’re spot on and probably described maybe one of the key issues I’ve faved when you mentioned facing people who aren’t great communicators or don’t spark me to learn about myself.


I think this could be a key issue because the “what is the problem” I’ve often replayed in my head and it’s an exhausting effort. I find myself searching for an answer I probably won’t find unless that particular person comes out and says it which is unlikely and then you’re left to speculate a million different things. This is where the trouble starts I think because you start reading into everything and any form of common sense gets taken over by anxiety and overthinking. For example if someone says to me “you are unkind and rude” well it may be harsh but at least I can rationalise the situation and I usually think to myself well no I’m not fundamentally that type of person and I did not do anything to this person for example to be seen that way, at least they’ve told me and I can take the information and process. Those who leave you in the lurch you’re forever speculating and that’s where the overthinking spirals. Hopefully that makes sense.


Another issue I briefly mentioned below to Hanna is that I feel I don’t have too much of an outlet at home at the moment so I seem to be going over and over things with no one to help me through it, that is why I find a lot
of relaxation and solace speaking with you.


My parents have a strong relationship but over the last two years, a few events have occur and as they get older the arguing and silly fights just keep going and going. I am often left listening to it and it drives me mad but I keep it to myself because being the youngest I’m often not listened to. I wish they would just stop with the unnecessary bickering about really insignificant issues. I feel it’s only getting worse, this is not me saying I not love and am grateful for my parents I’m just finding it very hard to talk to them about anything now because of the whole atmosphere. I don’t want any issues at all.

It’s probably why I may be frustrating to speak with on here when I go over the same issues again and again because I can’t seem to get it out to anyone at home and I feel on my own so I am sorry if I seem frustrating by going back over things.

Hi Hanna


Thanks a lot for your help, sorry if it is difficult to provide advice because of the tendency you mentioned I have to rehash things. I am aware of this, I often apologise to people when I’m seeking support for this reason because I try to get things out and it always comes back to the same things.


I have been working on it with my psychologist unfortunately can only see her once a month because of bookings. There’s always a down period once a month when I go a bit stupid because I don’t really an an outlet at home at the moment that can help me calm down.


Thanks again! :)

Hi Daniel

I think it's hard when key people in our life can be a bit absent in some way for us, when they're facing their own issues. I think this is one of the things I considered, as a guide and friend to my kids, when we were going through lockdowns together here in Melbourne. While a lot of feelings and thoughts began to really surface during that time in regard to my relationship with my husband, I always tried to stay conscious of my kids' mental health and everyday challenges. While your parents may have significant challenges, do you feel them arguing over little things could come down to issues with personality traits? Maybe they're traits that were often tolerated or overlooked but became magnified during lockdowns. I found this to be the case with myself, in my own marriage. Some things were resolved yet some remain.This kind of stuff can eat away at you, unless you vent it constructively. I believe there are different kinds of venting. Just a couple: Constructive venting, where people deeply listen to each other's issues which are vented, so as to become more conscious, and then there's basic venting or stress release, where you're just trying to vent your own tension/agitation without necessarily looking for resolution.

It's a shame the counseling visits are only once a month. Do you feel it would make some difference if you were to say to your psychologist something like 'I feel the monthly visits are not enough for me to be able to experience any real sense of progress, which can actually feel depressing at times'? Whether they consider making the visits once a fortnight or extending the monthly visit into a double consult is maybe something worth wondering about. If you feel things are moving too slowly, do you think this is something you could mention to your psych?

I've found one of the best distractions from overthinking is YouTube. I admit, sometimes I overdo it a little. It can distract me from living my life at times. I tend to use it for educational purposes more than anything. I'm a bit of an information junkie :) When you find yourself in your own head too much, maybe consider getting up YouTube and key in 'How to stop thinking so much' and see what pops up. From psychological approaches to natural approaches, from the reasons why we think so much to how to stop doing it, there's so much out there in the way of education. So many people wanting to share knowledge and what makes a difference.

:)

Hi therising

I think lockdowns coincided with certain events that just amplified pressures and stress on my parents and I think you make a good point that things that may have been left unsaid for long periods have come to the surface. I wouldn’t say the issues are devastatingly bad it’s more constant bickering about silly things that’s exhausting and like unnecessary stress that they have been projecting for far too long.

Around about this time last year my father had a near fatal heart attack in which he spent 2-3 weeks in hospital, thankfully come good now but it was 100% induced by a stressful lifestyle and getting worked up over unnecessary “issues”. Since this I think we have all had more of a voice to tell my dad to stop when he starts a passionate rant that is about something that is just fundamentally insignificant. I think he’s not used to people tell him as much also as he is set in his ways and sometimes can’t see why we are doing it. My mum seems to overdramatise situations so when you put the two together it’s not a great match and it’s just led to petty arguement a lot.

The roles of the 3 siblings differ, my sisters is fiery like my dad and will have the voice to fight back or try to reason in a passionate way like my dad so they but heads. My brother is the oldest and he is probably listened to the most when he gets involved, he usually stays out of it. I have difficulty as my natural instinct in conflict type situations is to sit back and listen until I can try impart some voice of reason, I try not to fight with people to speak and I try to maintain a light mood in the house. It has if I’m honest exhausted me as I sort of get accused of being a “down in the dumps” person if I’m not constantly joking around as it’s an expectation almost so I have been keeping my thoughts to myself a lot. So I definitely think I get in a state where I’m already exhausted before I have to focus on social stuff like the dinner Saturday night. If that makes sense. In saying this they always come good I’m just worried for their health.

Yes that’s a good idea, I will mention it to her next week and see what we can do I hope I can get more sessions.

I actually try to do this a bit, it may sound a bit peculiar but when I’m quite bad with the overthinking I have a bit of a thing for watching like out of the ordinary sports on YouTube and see how they work to get my mind on something else, I just started doing this one day and has become a bit of a habit.

Hi Daniel

What a huge challenge, your family adjusting to your dad's heart issues. It must definitely play in the minds of your family members, especially your dad. I imagine it was a significant shock when it happened, the heart attack. I'm glad he's been able to bounce back from it.

I think we can get into the habit of being a certain way and then proclaim 'That's just me, that's the way I am'. It can be hard to see our self any other way at times. Maybe your dad sees himself as someone who just naturally stresses over the simplest things. Maybe your mum sees herself as being naturally highly expressive. To develop a different sense of self (among the many aspects of self that exist) would be a challenge - the carefree non stressed self and the peaceful basically expressive self. You yourself know how tough it can be to develop a certain sense of self that's been taking a back seat. You've been developing that sense of self that happily dictates 'There's absolutely nothing wrong with being an introvert at times'. You've also been developing the risk taker in you that dictates 'Go to that function or go on that date. Take a risk and put yourself out there, even if it's just to gain experience'. Perhaps the difference between you and your parents is you are a conscious self developer.

When you speak of going inward and then having periods of self assessment and self doubt, I've found this to be a part of the process. It's like we could begin to question inwardly 'Where do I fit in?', then we go out to see where we fit in. The first place we look, we find we don't fit in. So, we go inward again to process why, while perhaps being encouraged to try again. So, we go out to again see where we fit in. We might come away having found yet another place where we don't fit in. We go inward to analyse why. Maybe on the 50th cycle of going in and out, finally we find exactly where we fit in, who we best vibe with. In and out 'til we reach a conclusion. Only through the conclusion may we find all the perfectly good reasons as to why we didn't fit into those 49 places. The picture's perfectly clear. Up to that point, it may be seriously fuzzy in parts.

Having given birth to 2 kids, I can say that giving birth to a new sense of self can be just as painful. Typically, neither are a short pain free process. There can be incredibly painful contractions as part of the process. Then, at the end, something incredible comes to life. There can be great labor involved in both.

Hi therising

Thank you for your kinds words!

I think you’ve almost got the exact phrase they say in regards to “that’s just me that’s the way I am”. They aren’t really receptive to advice either if I’m being honest. Unfortunately I think they are set in there ways so much that now they probably aren’t as receptive to change. It’s only a small adjustment I think they need to make in order to a constructive change.

I think you may be right also, feels like I keep trying and haven’t really found my place.
I think a lot of what happened to me when I was younger was that I was in a social group where from the outside looking in I probably belonged but within myself I never felt I did. Not to say I didn’t get along with my friends group during these years I did but I always thought I was “part” of the group as a consequence of being quite good at soccer when I was younger. Then when it came down to actually being a friend I was sort of left in the lurch. Might be a silly example but for example my 18th birthday out of that whole group 2 of them came and this coincided with not being invited to others’ subsequent birthdays. This was a common theme throughout my school years and younger adult life and although I realise it isn’t much to worry about for someone who in the first place didn’t feel right it just exacerbated all the feelings.

I think in ways it has definitely affected my thinking and approach to social outings now, I always view myself in social outings as coming from a lower standing point where I need to try and prove myself. It also caused me to have this mindset with dating particularly early on. If nothing else all the disappointments and rejections I have gone through with it have almost made me become tired of having this mindset. I find in these outings I don’t necessarily feel the need to do this anymore as I am starting to learn to care less about what others think.

The issues are when I’m on my own I feel more so these days, it’s a combination of things I’ve mentioned before mixed in with some impatience I will admit also. But it is impatience directed at myself that I don’t want to be up and down like a yo-yo, I sort of have trouble trusting that some of the things I have planned for myself or the path I am on is the right direction. Maybe I have an issue with releasing control over things and realising I can’t control everything.

Thanks a lot for everything you’ve said to me it’s really helped open my mind up

Hi Daniel

Learning to care less can be such a challenge, I think because we're generally raised to be conscious about caring what people think of us. We're taught, in certain ways, how to be social creatures. While we humans are naturally social creatures, the teachings are more about fine tuning it based on what culture we're living in. While there's nothing wrong with being taught how to best vibe with people in certain circles, things can perhaps go a little overboard at times. Sometimes, we can be taught to care too much. This is what I've found from personal experience. It's almost like you can be taught how to be the best possible social creature by suppressing certain parts of yourself that are also natural. I think there has got to be some balance, so we're not suppressing so much of our natural self.

Regarding the 'care less' or carefree factor, just a couple of weeks ago I was in the supermarket with my 16yo son. I was laughing as he was openly vibing to some song on the speaker. He loves to amuse me. While I've done this myself on occasion (it's hard to control yourself with some of the songs that come on) I asked him how he manages to not care what anyone thinks of him. He said something along the lines of 'I've learned, it doesn't matter how hard I try, people are going to judge me. So, I figure I'm just going to be myself. I don't care anymore, what people think of me. Caring so much is is just too much hard work'. He's had some tough lessons throughout his life. He's faced some serious bullying throughout both primary school and secondary, up to a point. I'd have to say he's one of the most thoughtful and caring people I've ever met. He's like a lighthouse to abusive depressing people and that's not his fault. He draws the attention of the people who lack the qualities he naturally has. All sensitive, thoughtful fun loving people absolutely love him and treat him with respect. He attracts a variety of people.

I can't believe my son has learned so early in life to be care free, to this degree, to the point where he's developed some sort of mantra. It took me decades to get to that point (or close to it) and I'm still trying to master not caring about what people think of me. Perhaps, based on his experience, he was pushed to develop this much faster than me. I'd say what he's now beginning to fully develop is his ability to get a sense of when to care and when not to care, something I think we can get a feel for, with practice.

Hi therising

I can't tell you how great that is that your son has already developed that mindset considering what he has been through. As someone who grew up throughout primary school and secondary school being bullied also I let it emotionally torment me to where I often remember my mum trying to console me in the car trips home from school.

Although largely I enjoyed my secondary school life as much as I could but I was emotionally tormented by my "friends" and fundamentally felt empty and alone even though I was seen to have a lot of friends at secondary school so I tried to appease people.

I fully realise there are people who got bullied far worse for really terrible reasons and I always tried to be a friend to everyone for that reason as I was internally battling it. A lot of the guys I went to school with would be surprised to hear I felt that way throughout my time at secondary school as I believe I have always had a good ability to joke around a bit and relate to different types of people and also because I was sort of part of that "cool group".

I think for a young male that might be on the more sensitive/quieter side of the spectrum to be within a very "boys club" group at an all male school can be quite the mental challenge although many others looking from the outside in would suggest not. I told a friend of mine from school who strangely enough I never really spoke to at school it was only until we went to uni afterwards we became good friends that whilst people would of thought it was cool to be part of my wider friends group I can say from experience it did more harm than good for myself. I believe it conditioned me to constantly question what I do, what I say and how I came across. The throw the element of female into the mix as I got older within a group like this and I am sure you can imagine the type of sentiments that are thrown around.

Whilst I do not know your son, I commend him for developing this mantra! My advice would be at his age is find your 1-3 close friends who embrace every part of you and stick to these and never feel that what may be seen as a "cool" group is where you want to direct your efforts. I wasn't strong enough or smart enough despite my parents advice at the time to realise what my father meant at the time when he said, "the "cool" group is the one that accepts you for who you are and does not make you question yourself within it". I am ashamed it has taken me so long to learn it and I still have trouble now.

Hi Daniel

I will definitely mention your advice to my son. Thank you for the guidance. I think he will be able to relate to what you say regarding the cool group being the one that accepts you for who you are and does not make you question yourself within.

I think sometimes it can take a long time to finally relate to what someone says to us, such as the advice your father gave you. We might be able to basically relate to good advice but it can take a lot before we may come to fully relate. In some cases it can take years of experience and a certain number of rises in consciousness before we finally get there. I find, myself, I may not be able to fully relate to someone's good advice based on the way they deliver it as well as the lessons in life that are linked to it not being terribly obvious. Someone else can come along and have me relate to that advice in a flash, based on the way they deliver it/open my mind to it, or I can find myself in a lesson that is outstanding in the way it relates to that advice. Until such times, I may remain basically relating to someone's good advice while finding it hard to follow such advice. I think sometimes it's not a fault of ours that we can't fully relate to good advice, as we have to perhaps develop the ability to relate to it first. As long as we're striving to be more conscious, we possess the potential to always be developing abilities.

Sometimes we don't even realise we've gained certain abilities. For example, someone could say to me 'I want to gain the ability to be open minded, as my parents have pretty much conditioned me to be closed minded'. My response to them would be 'You obviously already have this ability, as your expressed desire reflects you've opened your mind to change. Now that you've opened you mind, it's a matter of developing it'. Another example could involve someone saying 'I want to learn to love my self'. While they may be beginning to question all the people who have led them to hate themself in the past, technically they're already entered into the process of learning to love themself. It may be a matter of 'I need to question where the self resentment came from before I can let go of it, on the way to fully loving myself. I suppose we can't let go of what we're not conscious of. It's not always easy to see we've already entered into a particular process.

One thing I've learned is - I know I've entered into a process when a whole stack of sh*t starts to come to the surface :)

Hi therising

I often have the thought as to why I can’t take my own advice that I give to friends as I often use some of the things mentioned to me by family and whoever it may be. I am almost a professional at giving good advice and not being take to it take my own advice. I do believe I have a good ability to think quite clearly when it comes to a friend or family member or anyone for that matter that may ask for my opinion/advice. Applying this to myself is a massive struggle for me.

I also feel very isolated too and alone in my issues if you want to call it that because I often feel not listened to by friends or confused even more so after talking to them. An example would be when I was again friend zoned by a potential partner and told basically it’s just a friendship and won’t happen. My friend proceeded to give me “advice” by saying I was too weak and should have fought for it more although I tried to explain this wasn’t an option and even so I don’t want to “convince” someone to like me. I felt my character was assassinated and then when I’m alone I start think I am a weak man because I was respectful of what she had said and didn’t “fight” for myself. So basically it triggers a down spiral in myself.

Whenever I try reach out to a friend for some help I feel left questioning myself as a young man and whether to be nice or down to earth is weak and undesirable. I guess that’s part of the reason why I keep annoying with this thread because I don’t feel heard by my own friends.

I feel agitated for example on a sunny weekend like this one just past I spent it basically alone except for that dinner I may have mentioned, but I am confused why I don’t just relax in my own company. It’s a severe problem I have where I look at big groups of friends doing things or my friends who have other groups and I don’t just makes me feel like a loser.

Hi Daniel and hi The Rising,

I really hesitate to come into the conversation again and I haven't got much time, but my thoughts for what they're worth..

The pandemic is making things really difficult for you Daniel, and as well as that it can be hard for guys to make a group of friends;I think women tend to connect socially more easily with each other.

It's difficult for you when friends are pairing off. That's why I honestly think you should try to get involved in a mixed group (like the mixed sports you're going to try). These can be such a good way to make some social connections with other guys and mix with women too, through a shared interest.

I used to belong to an amateur theatre company where I helped out with props or serving refreshments or putting out the chairs at a performance, and I made the best friends - it was all mixed ages, young and old and guys and women, and we had so much fun!

That way you can make some connections and get out and have some company instead of being lonely at home.

If you google something like loneliness in men, there's so many men out there who are lonely, you are not the only one feeling like this!

OK that's my 2 cents worth! I just think you should consider just trying to make a decent social network for the time being, but it's entirely up to you. Cheers!

Hi....being friend zoned...I don't think its weak at alllll..but I think sometimes u do have to persist a little bit to show jnterest. U Don't wanna be a doormat or be used by someone who's totally not interested, but to try a second time....I would support. Ps u gave it a go and tried so u are obviously very not weak.

It's a bit of a confusing thing but being able to take a rejection seems to be key in getting not rejected...

Hi Hanna

Please don’t hesitate to offer your advice as I greatly appreciate it!

I agree with your advice, I guess I get a bit uncomfortable in the interim phase while I wait for a few things I’ve got planned to start and I worry in anticipation that I’m going to get over anxious and nervous and it’ll ruin it.

I think the pandemic has affected my mindset a lot more than what I initially have thought, I want to go out and try initiate social connections like you say but I get overcome with nerves and anxiousness like I don’t know what to do and people are going to judge me.

Thanks for your ongoing support

Daniel