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Forums / Long term support over the journey / Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

Topic: Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

  1. Peppermintbach
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    13 July 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Hi ChrissyStar and all,

    Waves to Cala and all....

    birdy: Yes, I agree that the labelling on recycling bins could be a lot clearer. Personally, I feel using a simple picture of a coffee cup with a red circle and diagonal line through it would be helpful (i.e. a similar concept to the “no smoking” signs)...especially on public bins.

    Yes, it’s sad when welll meaning people end up accidentally sending a whole recycling bin to landfill. Don’t worry too much about accidentally putting coffee cups in the recycling bin in the past, I know you’re heart is in the right place...

    Most of us do things that perhaps aren’t always for the best (including me) but as long as we keep trying, it’s more than okay. Before I started using reusable coffee cups ;and before I learnt that coffee cups weren’t recyclable), I used to also put the cups in the recycling bin too! Oops...

    I have no idea who this Bacon person is but the name?! Lol. I think it’s fantastic that Ellen DeGeneres and Portia de Rossi’s personal chef contributed recipes :)

    Whenever I think of Ellen, for some reason, I always think of her “cover” of Adele’s song, Hello. It’s funny in a goofy way...you should be able to find it easily on YouTube if you’re interested...

    I’m very curious about what was on your mind...hopefully it comes to you...

    Love and light xoxo

    Grandy: It seems birdy has piqued your interest in Blue as well :)

    I think it’s wonderful that the bins in your area have been labelled more clearly now. Mine are still slightly unclear. Lol.

    Good on you for using your stainless steel cup and keeping 2 reusable cups in your car. I think that’s wonderful that you use your own cups when you treat yourself to a takeaway coffee :)

    Love and care,

    Pepper xoxo

    1 person found this helpful
  2. Scotty2013
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    15 July 2018 in reply to ChrissyStar
    I feel horrible saying it too, but times like this glad i don't have kids. Furkids is enough to worry about.
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  3. Peppermintbach
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    15 July 2018 in reply to Scotty2013

    Hi Scotty (and a wave to all),

    It’s lovely to see you here. I’m glad Chrissystar’s thoughtful thread resonated with you :) I don’t want to have my own children either for a whole range of reasons...

    Personally, I think it’s okay to not want to have our own kids. That said, I also think it’s okay to want to have kids. I feel it’s an enormously personal decision and there’s no “right” or “wrong” or “better” or “worse.”

    I feel just as people who have children can lead fulfilling lives so can those of us who decide not to have children too :)

    It would be nice to get to know you a bit better. There’s no pressure but feel free to express your other thoughts here too. A lot of us here also really love our fur babies and animal friends...

    Kind and caring thoughts,

    Pepper

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  4. Unbeliever
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    16 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Anyone that wants to understand the details about the specifics of what can and can't be put in a recycle bin in Australia should watch the 3 episodes of "The War on Waste" (particularly the episode that has the "street challenge" in it).

    It is very specific and clear about the current up to date details about what goes in your recycling bin and what doesn't (you will be very surprised). There is also an episode dedicated to throw away coffee cups Exceptionally well done and perfect because it is Australia specific and recent.

    It is one of those shows that every Australian should be forced to watch at least once (unless they are literally heartless or something of course)

    It is available to watch on ABC iview I believe. The next series of it is due to air soon as well.

    Just FYI.

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  5. Birdy77
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    18 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Hello Chrissystar and all 😊

    Grandy, it made me laugh when you said I'd mentioned the film 'Blue' several times. Sorry to nag you all 😉 it is so daggy and corny but I was going to say sorry for being "Pete Repeat" - if anyone remembers those recycling ads from the 90s? 🤪

    Anyhoo, I'm glad you watched the trailer and are going to try get a copy.

    Everyone, Did you know that researchers predict that by 2050 there will be more plastic than fish in our oceans???

    Scotty, great to see you here, please feel free to join in whenever ... I am like you, and have decides not to have children, I wonder how long our planet has left ...

    Unbeliever, thanks for bringing up that excellent series. I think that different councils have different facilities for recycling, and as Grandy said, her rural council only recently provided recycling bins for kerbside collection.

    I was horrified to read recently of massive piles of glass bottles being dumped by councils because the recycling process was too expensive, and then heard that a bunch of our recycling gets shipped to China???? I read that Ipswich council recently tried to end recycling as it was too costly .... it does my head in.

    I think there are quite a few documentaries that should be required viewing, e.g. forks over knives, earthlings, conspiracy, plus the war on waste. I think the wish not to know the facts though is not coming from heartlessness, but rather a wish for the status quo, to keep conveniences, to keep eating food people are used to eating "we've always done it this way": I'm against this heart and soul. I think there's a path in to everyone's conscience, I just don't believe our planet has the resources to survive long enough for the re-enculturation of humanity.

    Pepper, is that Ellen song where she's talking to Adele and then has Drake on call waiting and then Lionel Ritchie calls in?🤪 very goofy! I really like Ellen, she's good hearted and kind and tries to spread good feelings and good will I think. Plus she's such a positive and popular advocate for animals that she wins gold stars all round from me ⭐

    But seriously, Quentin Bacon as the photographer for a Vegan cookbook? 😂

    The fight to end live export continues but the gov dept in charge of agriculture has this week admitted they unlawfully sent 58,000 gentle sheep on live export ships ... and another export company has had its licence suspended for unlawful practices.

    Keep the hope and love alive lovely people ❤

    🌻birdy

    1 person found this helpful
  6. Unbeliever
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    19 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77
    Speaking of Documentaries that "everyone should have to watch about once".

    I have divided them into seperate "subjects" although the more perceptive of you will after watching them realise that many of these cross over into each other.

    So, for anyone interested...

    *Regarding our oceans and fresh water supplies...
    - Blue - The Tide Has Come for Change (2017) (as mentioned above).
    - Blue Gold - World Water Wars (2008)

    *Regarding Overpopulation Issues...
    - Mother - Caring for 7 Billion (2011)

    *Regarding Pollution and Global Warming...
    - Before the Flood (2016)

    *Regarding Consequences of bad planetary resource management...
    - Surviving Progress (2011)
    - The War on Waste (Australian) (Season 1-2) (2017-18)

    * Regarding Economic Warfare and Current World Financial Structures...
    - Capitalism - A Love Story (2009)
    - Inside Job (2010)
    - Enron - The Smartest Guys in the Riom (2005)
    - Inside Job (2010)
    - Zeitgeist Series 1-3 (2007-11) (*Warning, this one is particularly detailed and heavy and likely will take more than 1 view to grasp fully).

    *Regarding Species Destruction...
    - Vanishing of the Bees (2009)
    - More than Honey (2012)
    - The End of the Line - A World without Fish (2009)
    -
    *Regarding animal cruelty (not just the meat industry)...
    - The Burning Season (Palm Oil Industry) (2009)
    - Food INC (2008)
    - Blackfish (2013)
    - Born to be Wild (2011)
    - Project Nim (2011)

    *Regarding "Australian" Specific topics...
    - The Checkout (all 5 seasons).
    To be honest this is definitely a "must see" series for all Australians covering a vast range of subjects.

    **There are more worth watching of course. But I doubt any person who made the effort to watch just these above wouldn't jump several IQ points.

    ** Birdy77,
    The "War on Waste" does cover the differences in what can and can't be recycled by individual states quite clearly in the series. So no problem there.

    Also, I believe that people who purposely pursue ignorance about these subjects when information and facts are so easily available... just so they can keep simple "conveniences" fits perfectly well into my personal definition of "heartlessness".

    In fact, "Purposeful ignorance to keep conveniences" is one of the attitudes within the general population and individuals that I can directly correlate with how and why things have gotten this bad in the first place.
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  7. Birdy77
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    19 July 2018 in reply to Unbeliever

    Dear Unbeliever,

    Thanks so much for all those documentary recommendations. I have quite a lot of viewing ahead of me.

    I wrongly mentioned a film called "conspiracy", my auto correct changed it. It should have been "Cowspiracy".

    I, as a passionate Vegan, completely understand your stance about purposeful ignorance being a big reason why the planet is as stuffed as it currently is. However, although it makes me angry and distressed on a daily basis that people don't care enough to educate themselves about what is going on, and i wish I could shake everyone by the shoulders, I am starting to understand that this approach defeats the purpose.

    From my perspective, if people are told that they are heartless, for instance, it won't inspire them to do better, or be better. In my experience it harbours defensiveness and further sticking-of-heads-in-sand. As an example, if you are not a vegan, I am not going to call you heartless, even if I think perhaps you are buying in to animal exploitation needlessly ... but i am happy to try to gently show you why you don't need to buy into it ... I hope you understand ...

    I guess this forum is not the place for a debate on these issues. But i just wanted to sort of clarify where I'm coming from. You may find a blog we've mentioned here a few times interesting around these concerns: The Vegan Strategist. He explains it perfectly.

    What I meant by I don't think the planet has time for re-enculturation, I have in mind how not all that long ago slavery was normal, women not having the vote was normal, Indigenous Australian children being stolen from their families was normal, homosexuality being classed as both a crime and a mental illness was normal .... my dream is for humanity to look back on animal slavery and exploitation as something as abhorrent as the above issues.

    I know this will not happen in my lifetime, but I believe it is one of the major causes of the destruction of the planet.

    Thanks again Unbeliever, for those wonderful recommendations, I for one really appreciate it.

    🌻birdy

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  8. Unbeliever
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    19 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Birdy... I do hear you, I even agree.

    But I have tried the "gentle method".

    I have tried the "lead by example/ be the world you want to be" method.

    I have tried the "logic" method.

    I have tried the "point them towards the information and let them decide for themselves" method.

    I have tried the "spread the word as loudly as possible on all the social media platforms possible until the seed finally spreads" method.

    I have even tried the "it is actually blatantly and obviously in your own best self-interest and of your own children that you claim to love" method.

    I've tried the "be patient for decades and people will eventually work it out themselves on their own because they can't possibly be that stupid" method.

    I have tried the "just be responsible for yourself and let everybody do their own thing/ take all the sacrifices onto myself to try hopelessly to make up for 7.6 billion other people making things worse but even if you sacrifice everything it wont make a 0.00000000001% difference if other people don't do it as well" method.

    .... honestly, I'm running out of "reasonable" methods.

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  9. Peppermintbach
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    20 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi ChrissyStar and all,

    Unbeliever: Thanks for reminding me about The War on Waste :) I have heard of it and have been meaning to watch it but just haven’t gotten around to it yet. Thanks again for the reminder. Some of my offline friends have been raving about it.

    I also appreciate your list of recommended documentaries. Some of them I have seen before and others I’ve yet to watch. Like birdy, I’ve a long list too. One of the standouts (of the ones I’ve seen at least) is Blackfish, which broke my heart...

    birdy: Yes, that’s the Ellen song I mean :) She does seem like a very kind hearted person and is a positive example in many ways.

    I feel it’s sad that the fight to end live exports is still continuing. I feel it’s cruel thay 58k sheep were sent on a live export ship.

    Also, I really appreciated your recent reply to Unbeliever (waves to UB). Then again, I’m probably biased because a lot of the views you expressed align with my own ;)

    Love and light to all.

    Pepper xoxo

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  10. Peppermintbach
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    20 July 2018 in reply to Unbeliever

    Hi Chrissystar and all,

    birdy and Unbeliever: I just wanted to share a stray thought with both of you...

    I was wondering why I enjoyed talking to both of you (regardless of whether we agreed, disagreed or had mixed feelings about a topic or issue), and it just occurred to me today that it’s because I feel free to define my own narrative when I speak to either (or both of you).

    I don’t feel this freedom with many people...I constantly feel like I’m walking on eggshells with a lot of people. For the most part, I opt to tread with a degree of tact and diplomacy, etc, which is fine and has it’s place...but it’s also very, very exhausting at times...

    Anyway, I suppose this is my way of saying a small thank you to both of you.

    So...thank you

    Pepper xoxo

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  11. Birdy77
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    20 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Dear Pepper,

    I feel the same way ❤

    Thank you xo

    🌻birdy

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  12. Birdy77
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    21 July 2018 in reply to Unbeliever

    Hello everyone,

    Unbeliever, I totally understand your frustration (running out of methods) I feel it on a daily basis, and honestly makes me want to retreat into a hole much of the time. I don't have the answer.

    But even if my choices don't seem to make "a difference", they make a difference to me, they make a difference to my conscience and my spirit. And surely those of us who make these choices and changes are collectively making a difference. Not enough to save the planet, granted, but still.

    I like that quote "Do the best you can until you know better. Then, when you know better, do better" but I think a lot of people don't want to know better. Which is what you were saying earlier. It does my head in. Cue: retreat into the hole.

    People don't seem to get that we are endangered too. My partner likes to watch zombie apocalypse movies and when I walk past and see the screen I'm like "yep, there is the world in about 50 years time".

    We spend billions of $$ looking for life on other planets, and t trillions of dollars destroying life on this one.

    I'm rambling.

    But i wanted to acknowledge and empathise with your frustration. I get it.

    🌻birdy

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  13. Peppermintbach
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    23 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi birdy (waves to Chrissystar and all),

    I don’t have much to add right now but I wanted to say that I appreciated your recent post. I’m glad you were able to empathise so beautifully with Unbeliever.

    You get where he comes from. It’s frustrating and very disheartening at times...I hear both of you.

    Pepper xoxo

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  14. Birdy77
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    23 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Dear Pepper (Hi Chrissystar and all),

    My spirit soared when you said you feel freedom in our friendship. It reminds me of a Thich Naht Hahn quote, love in such a way that the person you love feels free. You could substitute "like" or "be a friend" for the word "love" and it would be equally true.

    If you feel confined by a relationship or a dynamic, it's not equal or fair and the other person is interested in you mirroring back to them what they want to hear or whatever ... not a true respect for you in all your complexity, uniqueness, weirdness, wildness, awesomeness, sadness, etc.

    I don't have anything to add to the recent discussion here, but I felt like hanging out with you, saying I appreciate you and I've read several of your posts on other threads the last day or so, where I've wanted to cheer for you, but I haven't been part of the discussion, so I didn't feel comfortable chiming in.

    So: I cheers you here my friend 🥂.

    Love and light all ❤

    🌻birdy

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  15. Peppermintbach
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    24 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi Chrissystar and all,

    Chrissystar: I hope you’ve been doing okay...

    All: a friendly wave...

    birdy: your post moved me. Thank you so much...I love that quote.

    It was beautiful and I liked how it seemed to speak of unconditional acceptance in it...sentiments about friendship (or any other important and meaningful relationships) being based on the freedom to self express, etc tend to resonate with me ❤️

    Also, I absolutely loved this:

    If you feel confined by a relationship or a dynamic, it's not equal or fair and the other person is interested in you mirroring back to them what they want to hear or whatever ... not a true respect for you in all your complexity, uniqueness, weirdness, wildness, awesomeness, sadness, etc.

    Thank you wonderful birdy...

    It means a lot to me that you’ve been cheering me on. I must admit that I’m wondering which threads you’re referring to...if it helps, you’re of course welcome to chime in on any conversation (not that you need anyone’s “okay” to join in...you can join in anywhere, any time or course).

    In fact, considering your great insight, intelligence and empathy, I for one (plus many others) would welcome your thoughts, insight and observations any time.

    Love,

    Pepper xoxo

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  16. Peppermintbach
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    25 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi ChrissyStar and all,

    I wanted to share something that Sez (Just Sara) said on her thread.

    For UB and birdy:

    And please pass on to UB and birdy, that their consistent attempts to enlighten the masses has worked in this instance. I will undoubtedly write down all UB's suggested doco's to watch, and focus on what changes I can make in my world to throw a pebble in the pond.

    Pepper xoxo

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  17. Birdy77
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    26 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Hi ChrissyStar and everyone 😊

    Pepper, thank you so much that really uplifting and affirming message from Sez 😊 How inspiring, encouraging and supportive. Thank you to Sez, and may we all continue to support each other to drop our pebbles in the pond and create ripples of change born of compassion, love and light 😊.

    Thank you Pepper also for your previous post, I really appreciate your presence and your warm and gentle friendship means a lot to me.

    Wishing everyone a day of peace and may our daily choices increasingly be made with conscious thought and care.

    Love and light all ❤

    🌻birdy

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  18. Just Sara
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    26 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi Pepper, Birdy, UB and a warm thankyou to Chrissystar;

    A huge and grateful hello! :-)

    I'm tagging this thread instead of having to use the search function as I have been. Since reading many of your posts, thanks to Pepper sating my inquisitiveness, I'm not so hesitant to read and contribute here anymore.

    I'd like to address UB if I could; as you know, I contributed quite a few times on your large thread about depression being a result of world views/events etc. I realise now there was a part of me avoiding the true nature of that topic.

    In the midst of my breakdown, the impact on my illness those types of issues had on me were larger than life, so posting my truth was a scary alternative to the way I chose to respond. I'm normally attuned to posters and their issues, but in your case I found myself floundering and trying to change your focus. I'm so sorry...

    You were of course correct in many aspects, and it wasn't my place to be the way I was. I hope you understand, because it's important to me that my apology's heard, comprehended and accepted.

    From memory, you said you'd been affected by what happens globally since you were very young. (Please correct me if I'm wrong) To me, there's a positive in this due to the overwhelming suffering you felt. This isn't a case of schadenfreude btw, it's more a matter of how our suffering can lead us to 'the life we were born to live'.

    Passing on what I've learned for instance, is now the background for developing my own business in the social services sector. Without suffering the way I have, finding my place in the world would've been impossible.

    The same goes for being on this forum; what better experience could there be to add to my list of qualifications and lived experiences? Unbeknown to me, everything I've been thru has accumulated to become the groundwork to base my future on.

    I guess it's a matter of finding the right platform.

    So I'll leave things here and reiterate my first sentence; thankyou all for being yourselves. It's a honour to know you...

    Warm thoughts;

    Sez x

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  19. Peppermintbach
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    27 July 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hi Chrissystar and all,

    birdy: as much as I appreciate the thanks and would love to take all the credit, the person that you should be thanking is Sez. I was just the messenger ;)

    Thank you so much for your gentle message to me. I feel the same way :)

    I appreciate your nudge for us to continue to make more conscious decisions. I really like the quote you used as I couldn’t have said it any better.

    Do the best you can until you know better. Then, when you know better, do better

    Sez: what a blessing for you to join us! I’m happy to hear you feel a little more comfortable about reading and contributing here. You, and everyone else, are most welcome :)

    Also, what a gracious and caring post to UB :)

    I feel blessed and privileged to know you too. Love, H x H’s

    Pepper xoxo

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  20. Birdy77
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    27 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Good morning ChrissyStar and everybody 😊

    Sez, Thank you again for the message Pepper delivered, it was truly uplifting to read your gracious words of support and encouragement.

    I think I can relate to your feelings of issues being "larger than life" at times. Especially when we are unwell it can be like a tsunami. Which probably relates back to Unbeliever's other thread, which really resonates with me.

    It's wonderful that your journey of pain and healing has brought you to the "life you were meant to live" ... so inspiring, and I have not a doubt in the world you will excel in your new business venture. You have a zest that will spin magic wherever you tread 😊

    It's an honour to know you as well Sez.

    Pepper, I really like that quote too. I have had times where I've felt incredibly guilty for not being a better person before I knew some of the truths I know now. But there is no use in that. It's not helpful and doesn't change anything. Looking ahead is helpful though and doing better once knowing better. That's what we can do.

    Yes, I know the credit was Sez's, I hope my Thanks to her was clear, but thanks to you too ... There's plenty of thanks for everybody to share 😄

    We were talking about cruelty free products and a while back you mentioned skin care and beauty products (& I forgot to say that I think that's a great idea to use up what you have and then choose cruelty free replacements) ... anyway, I made a new discovery at the supermarket this week. There are not many cruelty free toothpaste brands available where I live, but a new one hit the stores around here by WhiteGlo which now has a vegan friendly cruelty free option and comes with a biodegradable toothbrush. Awesome!

    I made burgers again last night from the Funky Fields "Minced" and it was gobsmackingly good. I made flatbreads to wrap them in and lettuce, vegan cheese and caramelized onions. Ohhhh yeah!! Has anyone managed to try it yet?

    Has anyone tried the Beyond Burger? I think they have released it in some stores, Maybe just metro stores though ...

    I'm hungry now.

    Thanks to everyone here for caring and sharing and being.

    Love and light ❤

    🌻birdy

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  21. Unbeliever
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    28 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Peppermintbach,
    Thanks for passing on that message on Just Sara's (Sez's) behalf.

    Just Sara (Sez),
    The doco's I recommended I defefinitely consider to be "must see's" for everyone at least once. They contain unique insights, perspectives and in many cases extremely harsh truths that people either don't have any idea, are confused about or actively avoid learning... (many of which should have been required learning classes for school kids 40 years ago... along with required "morals and ethics", "Cultural Diversity" and "Basic Australian politics, consumer law and do your own taxes" class units... but that is for another thread perhaps).

    However, while they are all great in their own way... most of them are more about informing people about what is happening, more than providing solutions. Which can make them tough to get through mentally if you watch them all back to back without breaking them up with "lighter" things. (Doco style series like "The War on Waste", "The Checkout" etc being the exception... they DO provide solutions).

    (Although, in many cases I consider the "solutions" to be quite obvious... simply stop contributing or at least reduce contributions. Ironically the vast majority of these problems require "doing nothing" with only very few requiring actively "taking action").

    So, I am going to add a few "solutions" type documentaries to the list which some people might find more uplifting and less depressing.

    "Growing Cities" (2013),
    "Tomorrow" (2015)
    and to a lesser extent "How to Change the World" (2015).

    ... there are more but I can't think of their names at the moment.

    Running with the theme of "informative but lighter" series worth watching...

    These 2 highly underrated series are great because they emphasise many, MANY things that are commonly believed (because most we were taught incorrectly in school or are falsehoods that have been passed down from parents to children for generations).

    "Horrible Histories" (2009-18) (8 seasons now I think)... this might seem like a series for young teenagers (lots of jokes, comedy skits, purposely bad acting etc) but in reality is overflowing with so many misconceptions about history that is should be required watching for kids and adults.

    And "QI" (Quite Interesting) (in particular the earlier series with Stephen fry hosting)... again people might think it's a cheap gameshow, but is overflowing with info about so many things we were taught wrong all our lives.

    Both are lighter and full of info.

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  22. Just Sara
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    29 July 2018 in reply to Unbeliever

    Massive thankyou UB; (Big waves and thanks to Pepper and Birdy for lovely responses and 'respect' to Chrissystar too for starting this thread)

    I'm taping the War on Waste episodes thru Foxtel and watched a UK episode on farmers and supermarket food wastage, recycling and clothing (that was an eye opener!!). I'll endeavour to get thru your list as time permits. Looking forward to it.

    Your list of 'must have subjects' for school is a ripper! Solution? I have a 14 yr old great-nephew in high school who's showing signs of fear/depression from global events. It started when he was 8. His mum has 5 kids and doesn't have the time to focus on his woes, but I've decided to chat with him; maybe he can contribute an article on your list in the school newspaper for comments to the editor. Being able to take part in some form of active participation might lift his spirits.

    Before I became ill, I had many positive routines in place. I still cull my clothes twice a yr, though this Winter I didn't. In the UK, teens/young adults wear clothes once and toss them in the bin. Most people throw them away instead of giving them to charity. I find this bizarre!

    Apparently, 4 tons of clothes are binned each hour there! A staggering 34,944 tons or 8,736 tip trucks of mostly synthetics annually which ends up as landfill. What the...!?

    I give my clothes to the local psych hospital for new patients who present to the critical unit just with the clothes on their backs. Staff are really grateful as few people realise there's a need. One man's trash is another man's treasure.. :-) I buy them new underwear sometimes as it's their biggest problem item.

    Writing this has been cathartic. Ever so grateful for you inviting me here Pepper.

    Care and (pragmatic) kindness to all;

    Sez xo

    2 people found this helpful
  23. Peppermintbach
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    30 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi ChrissyStar and all,

    birdy: Yes, I agree with you. Thank you again for sharing that quote with us here. I looked it up, and assuming it’s correct, I believe it was Maya Angelou who imparted those pearls...funny that you quoted her just when I started reading one of her books :)

    Thanks, yes, I may as well use up my current products. It’s a sunk cost/an already done harm so I may as well just finish using it and look for more cruelty free alternatives...this isn’t me excusing myself (I’m not) but I’m just being pragmatic about the whole thing.

    What I mean is regardless of whether I sit here berating myself or not, it doesn’t change the fact that I still have some non-cruelty free products in my home. I may as well just use it up then channel my energy more productively to find cruelty free alternatives...your cruelty free toothpaste sounds fantastic btw! I love how it comes with a biodegradable toothbrush.

    Your plant based mince burger sounds delicious! I tried a plant based hot dog the other day at this local eatery, and it was really tasty: plant based sausage, caramelised onion, mixed leaves, truffles and special sauce :)

    UB: you’re most welcome. But seriously, it took me about 30 seconds to quote Sez so it was no big deal ;)

    Sez: no worries at all. I should be thanking you for being so patient and understanding of me and my musings on your thread :) Thanks again!

    I’m happy you’re feeling inspired by UB’s documentary recommendations. Hopefully your suggestions help your great nephew...

    I think it’s great how you give old clothes to places that need them like your local psych ward :) Good for you.

    Speaking of which, you might be interested in a documentary about fast fashion and its environmental impact plus its role in worker exploitation. It’s called The True Cost. I don’t know if you’ve seen it already though...

    I don’t think fashion is inherently bad. But I do think there is an issue with fast fashion...

    I’m quite picky with my clothes. I tend to buy either really high quality new pieces (the type that will last a lifetime like a stylish and very well constructed handbag that will last 50 + years if I take care of it) or other quality secondhand pieces.

    I tend to avoid fast fashion or cheap new clothes at a discount chain because in order for those clothes to be so cheap, let’s just say, someone somewhere is being exploited for it...cheap is fine but there are other cheap alternatives like op shops or flea markets :)

    Pepper xoxo

    2 people found this helpful
  24. Peppermintbach
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    30 July 2018 in reply to Birdy77

    Hi again birdy (a wave to ChrissyStar and all),

    Sorry, I forgot to include this in the above post...

    I wanted to thank you for your latest post on my thread. I looked up the poem...very, very powerful words. It’s still sinking in. Haven’t fully processed it yet...

    I thought it was particularly meaningful and moving that you chose a poem by a civil rights activist. I just found it interesting that both a recent quote of yours (here on this thread) plus the aforementioned poem were both by civil rights activists. Not sure if that was intentional or a happy coincidence. Regardless, thank you so much for sharing :)

    You seem to have impeccable timing as I’ve been really interested in learning more about the Civil rights movement lately. A grateful thank you once again.

    Pepper xoxo

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  25. Peppermintbach
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    30 July 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Sorry, I forgot to mention.

    Just be mindful that some of the content in The True Cost might be triggering for some of you as it shows things like footage of a garment factory collapse in Mumbai, mention of violence, etc.

    So please just be very mindful....

    Thanks :)

    Pepper xoxo

    2 people found this helpful
  26. Just Sara
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    30 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Thanks Pepper; (Waves to all)

    Btw, Maya Angelou rocks! What an amazing and lovely human being. The innate wisdom she imparted on humanity will forever be in our hearts and minds. "Rest in Peace beautiful lady..."

    Yes, the human cost of unethical fashion has been a topic of contentious discussion for many decades. When I was young, Melbourne was/had been 'the' hub of activity for high fashion design, garments and textiles in Australia which employed thousands of local and grateful people in Melbourne's CBD.

    Of course this was before the mindset of profits before people became popular. Now third world factories are considered the norm which is shocking yet, we keep buying their products.

    I used to make clothing to sell but couldn't make a go of it due to costs. All I wanted was enough to survive.

    Anyway, I digress. We shall overcome...

    Take care;

    Sez

    2 people found this helpful
  27. Birdy77
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    30 July 2018

    Hi Pepper ❤

    Happy coincidence. Just the type of stuff I've been reading.

    Peace, happiness to all.

    🌻birdy

    2 people found this helpful
  28. Unbeliever
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    265 posts
    31 July 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Just Sara (Sez)... a comment just for you.

    I'm sorry that I didn't respond to your other deeply emotional post. But once again I became restricted by the 2500 limit and was unable to post back to back... So I had to wait.

    There is absolutely no need to apologise. I did notice that you suddenly stopped posting on my thread a while ago. I was concerned that I had upset you with some of my unfiltered comments and didn't know how or where I could contact you to address this if that was the case.

    As you know, I re-developed my old sleeping difficulties again late last year which is why I became reluctant posting on this website for so long. I learned the hard way long ago that I simultaneously become both blunter and sharper the longer I stop sleeping. My frustrations at failing to communicate at my normal effectiveness make people's misinterpretations of my words easily frustrating and my responses become colder and less... compromising.

    This is something I have to make myself constantly aware of especially here on this website where words can cut so deeply and many people are so vulnerable and on the edge. And bite my tongue and walk away when necessary.

    Normally, I can easily see that people can only interact with others on any level within certain bounds... the information they have had access to, their own personal life experiences and if they are comfortable enough in themselves currently in their lives to be able to see alternative perspectives without compromising their own feelings of safety and security (the beliefs they need to prevent them from falling apart).

    "Longterm Sleepy Unbeliever" logically still knows this... but struggles to always keep it in mind.

    My thread was always going provoke certain thoughts that would scare some people, make others uncomfortable... and threaten the stability of some peoples carefully constructed perceptions that they rely on to feel "safe". I admit that I knew that when I created it.

    But no matter what, remember this Sez... Your truth is just as important as my truth, perhaps more so.

    I am not easy to "attune" to, that you didn't feel able to is nothing to feel bad about. Few people ever have and even then within strict limitations. I am a unique type of monster. :) I've been aware of this for some time.

    Your apology has been heard, comprehended and accepted... and is completely unnecessary.

    As far as I can tell, you are fine the way you are and I'm confident that I am not the only person who thinks so.

    3 people found this helpful
  29. Peppermintbach
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    31 July 2018 in reply to Unbeliever

    Hey UB (and a wave to all),

    Sorry, I realise the above was not addressed to me but can I just really quickly say something?

    I just wanted to comment on your thread in a very general sense....

    The very things that you said about making people feel uncomfortable because of your alternative (not “mainstream”) perspective, challenging people and pushing people out of their “safe” bubbles/comfort zones a little (or a lot in some cases) was precisely what I liked about your thread :) I suppose timing and expression is everything too but I feel sometimes it’s good to hear a perspective less mainstream...

    I, for one, really appreciated and found value in your thread. I liked that it was so different. It was refreshing. In some ways, I found your voice to be a relief regardless of whether I agreed with you or not...

    Anyway, I just wanted to say that...I’ll now let you and Sez continue that conversation.

    As (the 2 of) you were...

    Pepper xoxo

    P.S. I’ll reply to you, Sez and birdy, tomorrow. Have to go...always seem to be in a rush. Lol

    2 people found this helpful
  30. Unbeliever
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    265 posts
    31 July 2018 in reply to Peppermintbach

    Oh, hey everyone.

    My previous post was not meant to "highjack" this thread. Please everyone continue contributing to it as normal without hesitation.

    I was simply taking the opportunity to say something I wanted to a while ago but could never find the appropriate place to do it. And since Sez wrote to me directly here... it was exactly the chance I needed.

    And there is no need for Sez to respond, I think we covered the most important things that we both felt the need to say.

    I think it is best for this thread to resume discussing the topics presented by the original poster rather than get too sidetracked.

    Regardless, everyone please continue posting here as normal without concern of "interrupting" anything.

    ... as you were. :)

    2 people found this helpful

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