I went to a baby shower yesterday. Unfortunately I gave in to temptation & ate more of the less healthy foods than I should & paid for it afterwards. My willpower isn't strong enough paticularly when tired.

I am still feeling really tired Even when I go to bed at a reasonable time & don't get up early I am still tired. I had another procedure in hospital on Wednesday. The doctor told me afterwards that everything was normal so I don't have to have any more tests related to that issue for a year. The doctor used a local & there was no pain. On the way back to my car I experienced bad pains in my chest & stomach which I can't see how the procedure could have caused. I can only assume It was anxiety related to stress. Over the last few days I have the same feelings particularly when trying to walk fast. I know I have pushed myself more than I should & I had my husband sick for a few weeks but I don't think I should be reacting like I am.

Has anyone else had similar experience & what did you do to help.

Hi dear Elizabeth, the procedure you had on Wednesday was that the one that you were quite anxious about? It is good all was well there. About the pains in your chest and stomach, you poor thing. I wish I knew what it was so I could advice you or something. It wouldn't be like the aftermath of the meds you took for the tummy thing would it?

Maybe you are feeling better today?? I do hope so.

Shell xx

I am resurrecting this thread rather than starting a new one. I am struggling with ongoing fatigue & feeling down. I thought I was improving but now going downhill & unsure what to do to help

Hi Elizabeth,

I'm sorry to hear you are feeling so flat. I had a quick read of your thread. You have been through the mill over the past few months. Did you feel better after the treatment for the stomach infection? Are you still following the diet?

I can relate as I am dealing with similar chronic problems including pain. It is debilitating, and like MI, it is invisible to others and that can be so frustrating. At the moment, I have given up on medical appts. They are so stressful, and I can't afford it anymore, anyway. I find it is easier to ignore it. Probably not healthy, but I was doing the roundabout like you, and not getting any relief anyway, so I don't feel any worse off now. Not being very positive, sorry, but I guess that is how I cope. I will probably go back again eventually, when I absolutely have to, but until then I just deal with it all, by not to thinking about it.

I do find that vitamins, like D, B, C and magnesium and Zinc do help me have more energy. I have also started Probiotics. There is a lot of info on brain-gut health interaction. It looks promising. It can't hurt, especially after all the antibiotics we swallow. They have definitely increased my appetite which was nonexistent before, so I know they are doing something I need. I don't need the weight back that I've lost, so Im hoping they help with metabolism as well. So far, so good.

For me, sometimes it is motivation that is missing. I might want to do things, but really just don't want to, so don't. Well, it make sense to me. I just can't be bothered atm. Even if I start something, I often give up before finishing it. So I usually end up doing things in stages. Most things eventually get done that way, and even if they are half done, it is better than nothing. Who WANTS to do the dishes or do the vacuuming anyway. A friend once said to me 'at our funeral, no one is going to say, wow her house was so clean', so that stuff is pretty thankless anyway. Maybe tackling things in stages is something you could try.

Sorry it's not the most positive post, I'm sure you'll understand. I do hope you start feeling better again soon. Perhaps spend some time with the grandkids, try and absorb some of their energy...where do they get it? I'm sure you'd feel a bit better after that anyway.

Warmest wishes for you, Lee x

Thanks Lee for your reply. It is good to feel someone understands or cares. The treatment for the stomac infection didn't work so I was sent to yet another specialist to get advice. He thinks the options to treat the infection available to me know are likely to be worse than the infection. He recommended trying something else to see if it helps reduce the stomach pain If not more tests. I usually have rolled oats with milk yogurt & fruit for breakfast. The raw oats are supposed to have resistant starch which feeds the good gut bacteria so hopefully it will at least stop me getting worse. Motivation is an issue. My psych has said that lack of motivation can be a sign that your body needs to rest & recover whereas I tend to beat myself up for not doing enough. I remember my mum saying that when we were little her mum told her to leave the dishes in the sink, put on a hat and go out to have a break. The dishes could be done later when feeling more refreshed but staying home there was always going to be a list of jobs to do.

Thanks Elizabeth, I'm sure there are too many people in this boat with us. In a way, reading your story makes me thankful I have jumped off the roundabout for a while. I imagine that I would be told much the same, and the heavy meds are not worth it, so back to basics is definitely worth a go. It is obvious if you think about it.

It is amazing that you mentioned oats! I love porridge. I have always eaten it on and off. Now this tale may get a bit graphic, but is funny really. Several years ago, I think I lived on porridge through winter. Couldn't get enough. It is so easy and healthy and cheap and warming. Of course I love salads etc in summer so don't eat it in summer. The next winter, I think yum, gonna have a bowl of porridge. Big bowl. Yum. Til about 2 hours later, no warning, explosive yawn? Then to the loo. Worst ever. Oh my. Shocking. Could it be the porridge?? Surely not. It's just oats! So a few days later, I gingerly have another bowl. A small bowl.Yummo. 2 hrs later....same thing!? How can I be allergic to oats? I can eat anything. I don't notice any problems when I eat something with oats as an ingredient, but a whole bowl, well. It is too unpleasant to try it again. I wondered if it might be the resistant starch was too strong for me now, sort of like gluten to a lot of people. I don't think I could go gluten free, we eat so much of it. Maybe it should be 'everything in moderation', (& I overloaded on porridge big time so my own fault).

Have you thought about probiotics. Of course yoghurt is. Also Kimchi, and kombucha. That may be why Koreans are so happy and long lived. I would love to try these but it is hard to get ingredients as I am in a remote location. I splurged on inner health plus, cos this is the easiest way for me. I am definitely more hungry and lack of apetite has been a problem. I am hopeful that it will benefit my general health. The research & findings are exciting. At the end of the day, if you believe in something, it is likely to help.

I love your psyched grandma (love autocorrect too!? Rofl, can see her now) ... psych & grandma's advice. We should listen to the wisdom of our elders, it is priceless. Good reason not to beat ourselves up about little things, in the scheme of it. There will always be another dish or cobweb. A garden is never finished. There is not much that cannot wait another day or week. Perhaps it is the things that cannot wait that are the important things. Getting deep now. Funny how the mind flows. x

I also read somewhere that we often get caught up with the urgent things but leave no time for the important things. We need to make time to build/maintain relationships. We need to make time to exercise & do other things to maintain health rather than rushing to ndo all the urgent things which aren't so important

ECP, you are spot on with what you have to do. It is just that we have to do them. It is so easy to put stuff off because other things seem more urgent however, if we make time to do the things that are good for us, we will work and live better so they other more urgent things are completed easier....if that makes sense?

Example, I have at times let my mindfulness of a morning slip when all it takes is 15 minutes to do. I know after a few days if i have been skipping it because i am a bit flat. I start it again and then i feel good again. Pretty simple formula but for some reason cannot stick to it 100%.

Important thing is not to bash myself over it. I just accept that I have not been up to scratch and fix it.

Mark.

Thanks Mark For your reply. I need encouragement & positive messages at the moment. I am trying to focus on dealing with the tiredness at the moment so not pushing myself. Unfortunately this means I feel like I'm not accomplishing much which is unhelpful too. I've always been better at theory than practical stuff. I preferred to sit inside doing homework that playing sport at school. I need to go to bed know my mind is remembering all the practical things I failed at.

Good night Elizabeth

xx

ECP, you are doing the right thing by focusing on dealing with the tiredness as if you push yourself you will only get more tired. When we are having the waves of emotion that come in, it is a very much a balancing act.

It is like when the body goes into flight/fight mode - the parts of the body that are not needed essentially shut down so that additional energy can be focused on the critical aspects of the body that are needed.

When you say you are not accomplishing much, I am here to tell you that you are wrong. You are accomplishing plenty, it is you just cannot physically see it. To be able to control your yourself and concentrate on doing what you need to do to get through the day, that is accomplishment.

You have not failed at the practical stuff, you have merely deferred them to another day for when you are feeling mentally better. I see you post as a positive one, you were not feeling great so you eased up to look after yourself.

Mark.

Thanks Mark & Shell, I appreciate your caring remarks. I was always very goal orientated even as a young child. I remember being desperate to start school & once I started I was desperate to learn as much as possible. In many ways this has been a positive characteristic but later it became a problem as I relied on reaching goals to have any self esteem & when anything stopped me I felt like a failure.

How long do I try resting to see if that helps the fatigue before assuming it is my mental state causing problems so I need to push myself to exercise more or do more.

Elizabeth, goal setting is a double edged sword that is for sure. I used to set impossible standards for myself and it was only going to dark depths that made me realise this.

I now set goals but they are achievable. I set different goals at different levels. When i was training for a marathon, I set a goal of 15kms, the 21.1kms, then 25kms, then 30kms then 35kms all the while keeping the ultimate goal of 42.2kms in the back of my mind. As I ticked off each one, i moved onto the next.

Hard to say how long you have to rest as if you wake up feeling okay then you may find that you can exercise well but the next day, if you are feeling crap, then you may not exercise as well because your mind is just not into it.

Have you ever seen a dietitian? Might be worthwhile a visit to make sure that your diet is good. When that gets the tick off then you know you are fueling your body right. Tick that off the list.

Mark.

Thanks Mark. I try to set achievable goals. Your method of setting smaller goals as stepping stones to the ultimate goal is the only way to do it. Success is a great motivator. I don't know that a dietician can help me at this time. I was a health professional so I have a reasonable understanding of what a healthy diet looks like. Although I am guilty of sometimes eating junk I eat plenty of vegetables & food from all food groups but I need to drink more water. I am trying to walk each day but I have other goals around the house eg painting rooms which I struggle with

ECP, great that you are educated in the diet so absolutely no need to see a dietician. We can tick that box off.

When you wake up are you physically or mentally tired or both?

I had a crap day yesterday and I know i am going to be mentally tired the rest of the week as it took that much brain juice out of me. At least i know this and I know why. The not knowing is the hardest thing to get your head around as it is so hard to make adjustments to fix it.

After a walk, do you feel energised? Sometimes I find that i don't want to exercise as i feel tired but after forcing myself to exercise, i feel good. Just have to get over the initial "cant be bothered".

Mark.

Thanks Mark, I hope you are feeling better today. I feel like I haven't had enough sleep when I wake up each morning even though I go to bed before 10 pm & haven't been trying to get up before 7 am or later. Even staying in bed later doesn't change it. I think I'm physically & mentally tired. I am a bit better than a week ago when recovering from a cold but not much. I am managing a walk each day but not feeling energised by it. I was hoping by spending a week really trying to get enough sleep & not pushing myself during the day I would improve. I have had so many tests over the last few months which have shown up minor issues but nothing which explains the tiredness or can be fixed.

I thought I was doing better re my depression & had some goals I was working on but now feel I'm flat & unsure how to change. Summer is often bad for me but this year has been milder weather & relatively low fire risk so that doesn't explain my feeling low.

I think I need to continue getting enough sleep & doing the regular exercise but will need to start to push myself to work on other goals to see if i can feel better by doing more. I just have to work out an effective plan to avoid overdoing things & making it worse.

ECP, i can certainly understand the feeling tired. I had it when i was first on meds and for about 8 weeks i was physically and mentally tired but at least i knew why.

Don't underestimate the power that depression could have over you. I am wondering if that is having a larger effect on you than you realise? How are you being treated for that?

I am like you in that summer is not my fave season. I actually love winter and the cold. I'm a penguin i reckon! People say that when it is raining that it is a horrible day, i just don't see that. I see an opportunity to run in the rain which is just so refreshing.

Mark.

Thanks Mark I am not on meds because I couldn't cope with the side effects. I tried quite a few different ones & they made no noticeable difference to my mood but the side effects made me terrible One affected my speech. Several caused extreme agitation which didn't settle over the weeks I persisted with the meds. I am seeing psychologist but he has just made the sessions less frequent. Having someone to talk to has helped me to put things in perspective & helped me deal with problems as they arose. The last few years have been a roller coaster ride with short periods when things look up but then things go wrong mainly due to my husbands condition but I have had several injuries & illnesses myself & other family issues/ pressures. At the moment there have been no significant problems to explain my fatigue.

ECP, that must be so confusing and annoying not to know what is causing the fatigue. I'm just about out of suggestions.

I'm a little concerned that your psych has made your sessions further apart. It should be up to you how often you have your sessions. As you pointed out, talking about it helps, that is the whole point of it all. Did he/she give reasons as to why this is now happening?

Mark.

Hey Elizabeth

Im sorry that I havent been on your thread.....until now.

You have been on the forums for a long time and provided some great advice too :-)

I dont blame you for a moment that you are exhausted/fatigued! You have a ton on your plate with whats happening in your life.

MarkJT has made a good point about your counselor making your appointments further apart...that is a worry and doesnt make a lot of sense especially as you deserve and need to have a good vent to her/him

You also know that I always used to be anti-meds prior to my doc putting her foot down in 1996 as self healing just didnt work. I wasted 13 years of my life trying to 'eat well and exercise' even though I was very fit

The meds initially are a a pain as we dont like the side effects. They are never a total fix (as you know) they only provide us with a platform on which we can heal more effectively using all the coping mechanisms available

I have been on the AD's now for 21 years albeit a small dosage. I still need a 'tune up' from my GP when my mood starts to falter.

I apologise if I have missed a post you have written Elizabeth. If its okay, can I ask when the last time you cried your eyes out in front of a counselor? (no response necessary of course)

I had weekly visits with a psychiatric nurse for 6 months and he had me crying my eyes out....but thats just me :-)

(he made me promise that I would attend weekly free visits even though I still thought I could self heal)

Mark has a stack of experience and he has asked a really good question....Did your psych give you any reason for the reduction in frequency of visits?

I just dont understand.....yet still learning :-)

my kind thoughts and nice to see you again Elizabeth

Paulx

Thanks Mark I have really appreciated your replies. Sometimes it is nice to feel someone is listening & that my concerns are valid.

Thanks Paul It is nice to talk again. I hope you are doing better.

I was doing better & I think the psych thought it would be better to spread sessions out as we weren't making much progress. He was concerned that the time taken to get to sessions may be adding extra stress. Unfortunately this occurred as I started going downhill again.

I understand that meds can be really beneficial for some people but my experience has been so negative I am not prepared to try again. I haven't cried in front of my psych for a while.

Today I had to get up early to get my husband ready to go out. I went for a decent walk after dropping him off & then returned home to mow the lawn. I'm trying to see if pushing myself to do more will help since focusing on sleeping more hasn't helped enough. I seem to be overreacting to things at the moment. For example I went to a carers group meeting & became really upset by one person going on & on about negative things including things which happened years ago & were no longer relevant. I ended up walking out feeling I have nowhere to get advice I needed.

ECP, with your psych - does the psych challenge you? Are you completely open to your psych? I feel that there is something holding you back. Something that you do not really want to talk about and that is the thing that is making you so tired.

Trying to be level when you have a mental health illness is incredibly brain juice draining and if we are not completely honest with ourselves, we cannot move on fully.

Now please do not take me the wrong way here, I am not saying that you are definitely holding something back it is just trying to narrow it down as to what is making you fatigued.

Mark.

Thanks Mark, I don't think I'm deliberately holding back but I feel like I have so many different issues which have been discussed at different times & bounced all over the place as different things came up. This has meant that things haven't always been dealt with properly. For example attempts have been made to address my self esteem issues which stem from being bullied at school & having no friends which were made made worse by negative feelings & struggles following being caught in a bushfire which destroyed our home. Unfortunately instead of being able to attend a series of sessions to address this problem other issues arose making it impossible for me to work effectively on self esteem. Examples of these issues included my husband becoming extremely sick & bouncing in & out of hospital with lack of sleep & emotional stress for me trying to cope. So many attempts to improve my situation & set reasonable goals have been aborted when things go wrong. Maybe focusing/discussing my problems is making them worse & I should just ignore them.

Other people are much worse off than me so I should be coping better.

ECP, do not fall into the trap of "other people are worse off". Your problems are your problems and are just as important to you as anyone else's are to them.

So i think it would be beneficial for when the next time you have a psych session, to concentrate on one thing and one only. Trying to take on all of these issues at the same time is clearly not working so break it down and deal with each individually.

By concentration on the one issue, you will get better at that and once you can overcome or learn to deal with that issue, move onto the next.

Thoughts?

Mark.

Thanks Mark, Most sessions we concentrate on one issue but when things go wrong (which has happened frequently over the last few years) we then have to focus on the most urgent issue rather than what we started the previous time. This has led to me feeling like I'm getting nowhere. There is a feeling of loss because things my husband & I used to enjoy are either no longer possible or require much more work on my part rather than being fun for both. Maybe I should try writing a list to take to sessions to help keep on track.

ECP, I think writing a list would be a great idea. I really feel that you need to get on top of one issue and then move onto the next. I understand that you and your psych need to react to what is the most important at that time but this is a really tricky situation. The feeling of getting nowhere will be negated also if you can get on top of the one thing as well.

Have a chat to the psych and see what they think.

Mark.

Thanks Mark. I have been away for a few days so didn't get to reply. We had a good break although a lot of work to clear up after. Unfortunately found out while we were away that my son was admitted to a psych ward. I've tried to not thing about it while away as there was nothing I could do but now I'm back I will need to decide what if anything I should do. Unfortunately his wife is difficult to deal with & her behaviour has exacerbated my son's problems. Will try to put it to the back of my mind till tomorrow otherwise I will just get too stressed

Saw a specialist today for a review. He doesn't want to treat the infection because he believes the cure will be worse than the infection. He had advised me to try some over the counter meds to see if that would help with the stomach pain I was feeling. He thought it had helped so I've been advised to use it as required. I spoke to him about the injury I sustained last year & asked if this could have brought on my problems. I had forgotten about it last visit. He agreed with me that had brought on the problems I was having. Don't have to go back

I saw my psychologist the other day. We are going to have appointments every 2-3 weeks as any further apart is too much. He told me about some research that he learnt about which he thinks may help me. They have found that doing 20min a day of' specific calming exercises reverses the negative effect of chronic stress. Examples of these calming exercises are progressive relaxation where you tense & relax each muscle group in turn, Deep slow breathing while counting tai Chi & some yoga poses. Mindfulness while beneficial in other ways by calming the mind doesn't have the impact on the physical body. I need to get myself motivated to try this. This week has been busy My one free day ended up having to babysit at the last minute so got nothing done.

I have had a really busy week. I was trying to finish a project but had lots of interruptions which meant having to work on it late at night & then going to bed tired but with my mind too revved up to sleep. Each extra thing was important but having so many unexpected things in such a short space made things challenging. On Saturday I visited some extended family members who are going through a hard time. I came home feeling powerless to help but couldn't stop myself thinking about the issues they are experiencing. This affected me stopping me from sleeping.

I have finished the project but now feel I have so much to catch up on I feel anxious about catching up & not forgetting something important. My husband is currently having some health issues to add to the pressure. Nothing serious but it still takes extra time. I feel guilty about not doing enough to help him.