Good morning to you all; isn't it a beautiful sunny day? It is where I am..

Some more on Nicks' (Wantalife) post; separating myself from the opinions and attachment issues with others has been a battle. I went to a Buddhist Retreat a couple of yrs ago and while there I 'received' an insight during meditation; I wrote it quickly on a little piece of paper. It read;

'Allow others to suffer for their lessons are not yours. Use empathy and discernment, not sympathy.'

It took me a long time to understand what this meant 'to me'. As time went on though, this tid-bit of info taught me to step back and discern what involved me, and what didn't. The word 'discernment' was my saving grace. It told me I had the power to walk away when in my best interest, and when to give without taking from myself.

Sympathy: Taking on the problems of others as if they're your own.

Empathy: Imagine walking in their shoes, and supporting them to help themselves.

Training myself to change strategies when dealing with people was really difficult. There were many times I broke down with a war going on inside me re right and wrong, and trying desperately to go from selflessness to selfishness.

Posting on BB has been a God-send; teaching me the difference between sympathy and empathy.

One of my greatest lessons though, was not exposing myself too much. This has been a huge effort because I did this all the time and 'advertised' myself as, well, desperate and easy. The little girl inside crying for help, attracted those who wanted to feel big. When my adult rose, those people abused to bring me down again. A horrible cycle.

So now I protect my inner child by listening, watching and learning who others are, then discerning if and when that person is in my best interest to be around.

Standing out in a crowd isn't always a good thing, nor is being in the middle spinning around trying to keep tabs on everything. Being on the outer edge gives a better view of situations, and doesn't attract attention.

I have many times over exposed myself on this thread, but anonymity gives boundaries and a sense of safety.

Ok, I just lit 2 ciggies one after the other. Doh! :-P Blood sugar depleted...must eat.

Love you all...Sara xoxo

Hi Sara,

Good post 😊 Thought provoking. I agree that there is a huge difference between sympathy and empathy.

Although sometimes the line between the 2 might be unclear; I guess finding that line takes practice, which is what you're working on (and that's awesome!) Boundaries are healthy, and I like to think of empathy is feeling deeply for others but without enmeshment.

As always, I never have answers (I always try to make that clear as I don't want to sound like I'm nagging or lecturing ha, ha); I only have my random thoughts to share. But for what it's worth, maybe when we haven't been loved very well, we reach out for any one (& I mean anyone), and of course predators are good at choosing targets.

I think being in the middle spinning plates or on the outer edge can both have benefits and drawbacks. I think it depends on the situation and your personal state of mind. Like, I think too much spotlight time can be exhausting, draining and make one vulnerable to unscrupulous people. Too much sideline time and maybe one ends up observing rather than living. But who knows...just random Dottie sharing her random thoughts ha, ha. I personally do a bit of both in my offline life 😉

Anyway, love your insight and you in general!

Stay amaze!

Dottie xxx

Gorgeous D Girl and Co;

Your words;

I like to think of empathy is feeling deeply for others but without enmeshment.

Too much sideline time and maybe one ends up observing rather than living.

OMG woman! These are priceless and so wise...

Thanks for stewing on my words...nice complement!

How's that WAL? Short and sweet; straight to the point. ha ha

It's 2am and I'm spent. 2 hrs sleep in the past 40 hrs...heading off psychosis with med's for quality dream-state

Zzz Zzz...Sara xoxo

Any time, Sara 😊

I hope you have managed to get a little more sleep. Sleep dep kind of blows.

Take care.

Stay amaze!

Dottie xxx

Thanks Dottie;

Yes I did get some quality sleep although my day (what was left of it) seemed frustratingly short.

I'm feeling somewhat emotional today. Heart got a workout due to a movie I watched last night. It doesn't help with all the love songs playing on the stereo; they just seem to 'get in'.

It's nice to say I'm listening to music which I constantly have blaring during the day and evening, especially when I'm on here. I haven't been able to since my ex and I were together...he ruined music for me. He liked it quiet and all about him. I was a doting partner willing to give it all up for (the delusion of) him; how pathetic.

...I ain't gonna bump no more with no big fat woman... music and lyrics to live by.

Mmm...I have got it bad haven't I?

Anyway, might do some more work around the house.

Good luck with the Melbourne Cup today!

Sara xo

Hi Sara,

Movies can give the blood pump a good, old workout (and get the tear ducts working too). I'm glad to hear you're listening to music again. It's the universal language.

Not pathetic. Not pathetic at all, Sara. Just human with a pulse and feelings. Besides, who hasn't fallen for the idea of a person?

Enjoy your tunes!

Dottie xxx

Sara-conna, this is a great thread. I just wanted to drop in and let you know I read regularly and am very inspired.

Dotti, I hope you are proud of the young woman that you are. I wish you blue skies along your journey. Wishful

Aw Wishful,

That honestly made my day. Beautiful, sparse words that made me tear up a little. Thank you so much! That means a lot. And my heart goes out to you too.

Wishful= brave. Big virtual hug from me to you (only if that's okay of course).

Dottie xxx

Dottie and Wishful;

Fine sentiments indeed taken with gratitude.

...

Today my son told me he didn't like being around me...to go to the coast or somewhere to live and wasn't my friend.

My heart is bursting out of my chest...

I'm sorry I can't inspire today. It's just not in me. At midnight it's my birthday. I've taken med's...I know Dottie...I shouldn't write when I do this. But the loneliness is unbearable.

The thought of my son kept me going; alive. Now I'm useful...I suppose that's something right?

Funny, I've an appt with my psych tomorrow. Don't know what I'll say...words escape me, at least any she'd want to hear.

I have you...that's important. I'm still alive...that's important too. Each breath hurts...but I'm breathing none the less. I have me...finding the positives.

My fingers are resting on the keys between words...just sitting there. Getting them out of me little by little.

Please don't worry. This too shall pass. I get it now. Anyone told the things I heard from my only child is bound to evoke grief and loss. It's not the end of the world.

I'm still waiting on those med's. Sleep will make it easier.

He told me to be stronger, get better, stop crying. I've stopped...for him. "So how was your day?" I said. "Ok I suppose" He replied. I said; "Oh well, I've got things to do. Take it easy...we'll talk soon" I held my breath as he walked out. He hugged me half halfheartedly. He left. I haven't cried since.

I've lived for my son and supported him for 26 yrs alone. What now?

I have me...Sara xo

Hi Sara

It's me, the new one, Girlfriday. I just came over this and wanted to say that I've got kids, a son who is 20 and a daughter with bpd, mdd and gad who's 23. Kids can really say stuff that hurts you. Sometimes I found it's because they see us in so much pain and they can't fix it and they feel powerless, and so they try to protect themselves by pushing us away and saying 'get out of my face'. My daughter does this all the time to me. Then I worry that she's self harming. And then when I try to call her to check if she's ok, she tells me off and says she has her 'support group around her and she can handle it so get back'. That one laid me low. Telling me to get back. I gave birth to her and kept her alive and sat holding her hand through everything she's been through - and everything we've had to go through with her. I'm sorry you're in so much pain. It totally sucks. Kids huh.

GF xxx

Beautiful hearted Sara,

I could literally feel the pain, confusion and loss leaping out of your post. I think your heart feels like it's bursting out of your chest because your son- even if it wasn't his intention- ripped out a huge chunk of it.

I mean, in so many ways, he was your life; your lifeline. You said so yourself that you lived for him for 26 years. You gave him your all; I bet you were/are an amazing mother even if he doesn't understand or appreciate you right now. What so many would give for a mother with your kind of love to offer, you've no idea.

Hey, post whenever you like. Loneliness hurts immensely (take it from someone who knows). Meds or no meds, just go for it with the words.

If anyone judges you for it- as Sparkvark once said- shame on them as that's on them and not you. You are an awesome piece of amazeballs (even if your son doesn't quite understand that right this minute or maybe he has his own pain so doesn't want to know yours).

What now? I honestly don't know...I mean, that's a really big question. Maybe as you said, part of it is a certain freedom. A double-edged, painful kind of freedom but freedom nonetheless. There's possibility...yes...pain, that too...

You are a beautiful person and beautiful mother. I know that no words can possibly undo your son's words and plans. But maybe you have a boomerang son...maybe he will come back when you least expect.

In the mean time, you have you, and as you said- with each painful step- you will walk, live and breathe.

And I'm here for you too, which is little consolidation but please know that.

Dottie xxxxxxxxx

Here's a big, long virtual hug from me!

Dottie xxxxxxxxxx

Happy birthday, Sara 🎈🎂🎁

You are amazeballs.

Dottie xxxxxxxx

Happy Birthday Sara, I hope you do something nice for yourself today.

Re: your son. From a detached, pragmatic standpoint I just like to note. I may have my threads crossed but with my muddled memory I believe he has only recently moved out this year.

Now that Australia has one of the most expensive cities in the world, youngens living at home with their folks for as long as possible is for a lot of people a financial decision that they have little choice over.

Unless........! You make it happen regardless and bolt for the frigging door like I did at 18! If you wanna move out you'll find a way.

You'll drop out of university to focus on gaining financial autonomy from middle class parents that pull the rug out from underneath you with $$$$, because they can no longer control you now that you have fled except with the purse. Move further away again, thus creating a lovely land mass, moat between you and DV, giving him the bird while feeling sick that your Mum is still there.

What I'm saying is to be still living at home at 26 is late. But it is also testament to you.

I have a simple social experiment litmus test thingy and if people disclose to me that they still live at home, it gives some pretty obvious insight into their emotional upbringing, and if they were provided a deep reservoir to draw upon. Their relationship to money is also a good indication of if DV was happening at home too. As far as I am concerned people being able to access tertiary education, at the moment (Americanisation of our Uni's may still happen), has more to do with housing than it does the expense of university itself. Emotional wellness advantage, and nurturing privilege (lucky buggers!) is something that others can never compete with. They are strides ahead and will be set up for life in a myriad of ways.

Its a really important growth spurt that your son is going through. You will not live forever, he has to learn to navigate his inner life without you at some stage if you like it or not.

I promise you, he will look back at your time together with immense fondness, and when times are tough once you've passed, he will draw upon the wholesome reservoir you created for him. It is liquid gold Dizzy. If you'd wanted to, with your background, you could have been the mother from hell. But you weren't. Let him explore, and let yourself explore. He's just going through the emotions that come with independence. You should be proud of yourself. Cake and champagne for breakfast?

Yes, and that is why I'm always f****g broke, Corny. I feel you...sometimes you just gotta leave. And so I did.

Anyways, that's my little whinge of the day. Back to Sara and hugs to all.

Dottie xxxxxxx

You're mental health is far more important Dots.

You've got strength to forge your own path, you'll have lots of interesting experiences and funny stories to tell, and even though some of your peers will be at a financial advantage for many years to come you will have some emotional advantages you never realised at the time will bear fruit.

What's really interesting, and something that I have noticed in other people, is that you will be far less prone to stay in miserable, black hole of no intimacy, unhappy partnerships with lovers because of real estate, wealth and financial reasons.

xx

Dearest Dottie and Corn-Cobber;

It's so nice to wake then come on here to find peep's I admire and adore wishing me happy birthday; thankyou. Coffee and cig's, swollen eyes, but love in my heart. I'm ok...

I've read your post's with a smile in my soul. Wanted to cry, but I've promised myself not to anymore.

I do have a sense of freedom I don't think I've experienced before...ever. I've always lived my life in some way for others. Loneliness can be more about emotional isolation than physical...you know?

My son has left the proverbial nest; well and truly. Corny, considering the situation with your mum, your words have helped me to hear from the other side of the coin. I don't have her illness, but I understand the similarities now. No child wants to see their mum in pain. I think the best thing for me to do is live my life with passion and purpose.

I may not have as much money to leave him when I do pass, but he'll get to see how vivacious and happy I can be...no money can provide this.

Will go now and finish my brew and lung-buster's. They've got to go too...

Love...Sara (Diz) xoxo

He's just experiencing a really important growth spurt that's all. There aren't too many young people in Australia that do not exhibit frustration when leaving the nest. Growth comes with tension unfortunately. He'll never forget you, ever.

He's so lucky to have you, and to have a hearth to return to if everything hits the fan.

Are you into Tara Brach? She's gorgeous. The vipassana meditation tradition in the States isn't completely down with trauma, and the profound effects early child development have on nervous systems, but she is one of the ones that is the most down. Yo Yo Whass up.

Her Mum was an alcoholic and she had an eating disorder.

She has beautiful talks and meditations on her website that frame teachings in a very compassionate way to people that were raised with unmet needs. There are a lot of Buddhist hard liners out there that don't even acknowledge this as important and think that the mind is capable of anything. Ever walked through a ward of acquired brain injury patients! A little naive me thinks. We need a basic biological foundation to be able to access it.

Check her out, she's a sweetie.

Hi Corny,

Thank you as always 😊

Being my nosy self, I had a poke around one of your threads and noticed that Wednesday had commented that you're a very special person. Agreed!!!

You have a talent for getting people to talk; people usually can sense who they can/can't talk to...even if it's to an anonymous person online. And people can sense that corn fritters/corn cob/corn dog/corny/sweet corn/acorn gets it.

Thanks for being you.

Dottie xxx

Hi birthday girl, Sara;

He'll never forget you, ever.

Corny pretty much said it all.

Lonely in a crowded room, right? Yeah, that is a painful feeling.

There are more important things than money (says the one who is always complaining about her lack of it ha, ha). But joking aside, money is just a means to an end when it comes down to it.

I'm sure he will want to remember you as a person and as his mum (rather than remembering any hefty inheritance you could possibly leave for him).

Anyway, happy birthday once again! Super duper hugs from me!

Stay amazeballs and eat lots of cake! 🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰

Dottie xxx

Hi Wishful,

Any time. I snuck some birthday cake out of Sara's virtual kitchen. Here's a piece for you 🍰

Dottie xxx

Hey guys...

Looks like it's a girls night in me thinks. Who's up for doing our nails, hair, make-up and sitting on the floor telling risque' stories along with some quality vino? We'll get that birthday sponge out (fresh cream and caramel) and finish it off. Then get our shorty jammies on, bounce on the beds singing 'Sandra Dee' from the movie 'Grease'.

Dottie, Corny, Sparky and Wishful; thankyou for your well wishes. It's nice to be acknowledged by people I care about and who care for me...nice one girls...

Thanks also for the advice re my son and I. I'm listening and learning...

Mmm...I'm tired tonight. Had a big day. (Yawn..) Heating up the electric blanket as we speak. (Yawn..) Just got home from a night out with a friend. It was lovely...

(Yawn..) Sara xoxo

Hi Sara,

I'm glad you enjoyed your night out with your friend. Thank goodness for friends, right? 😊

Girls night sounds great ha, ha. I have my eye on that bottle of pastel blue/mint green nailpolish btw (it's kind of trending at the moment).

Hope your electric blanket kept you toasty and warm last night.

Stay amaze.

Dottie xxx

Good morning D Girl...

I did have a good sleep, thanks to the warm cuddly bed covers. A good night hug would've been the ultimate.

I'm into more neutral colours of nail polish (how boring) It goes with my M16 and sunglasses lol (see profile pic)

Getting to know me...

Nothing can compare to, or replace a physical hug from someone you care about; a firm, long and heartfelt squeeze at a time it's needed most. Those who suffer with depression should seek out these amazing and comforting tools of healing; the power of touch.

My psychologist told me of the chemical reaction in our brains/body when this happens...I concur. It uplifts the soul and gives hope. She also said we can do this for ourselves by wrapping our arms around us, closing our eyes to feel our own warmth and self caring. I tried it when I was down and it kinda worked.

I've been texting with a friend this morning who seems to have gone off to cry or is feeling overwhelmed with sadness. The distance between us is vast, and I so would love to give him a huge cuddle, wipe away the tears and kiss his forehead. I guess what I'm getting at, is that touch works both ways. For me to be able to give physically like that is beyond compare. Probably because I know how beneficial it would be for me to receive the same affection.

My profile pic may depict a metaphor for strength and courage, but in the movie when she broke down crying, a well timed hug gave her permission to cleanse and release much needed pent up emotions.

Anxiety and depression can be soul destroying, we on this site know this too well. When I turned up on my mother's doorstep early one morning in tears, still wearing my bedclothes and asking for help, she tried to hug me with a sense of awkwardness that hurt me deeply. Even though her physical touch helped, the absence of emotion was 'felt' by me.

This reality can cut like a knife...

Love comes in many forms, so when I receive genuine physical affection, it's truly appreciated and welcome, especially at times I'm in need. When I end my posts with 'hugs', it's sent with compassion and truth...real caring.

I hope you can feel my love pouring out through the ether...

Warm and kind hugs...Sara xoxo

Aw Sara,

I thought that was a really heartfelt, sincere post. I have to admit it has made me a little teary (damn tear ducts and the feels ha, ha).

I do vaguely remember reading something similar to what your psych said about the benefits of hugs (can't remember where or when though). She's onto something there.

I think when you showed up on your mum's doorstep, in that moment (& perhaps in many other moments too), you needed your mum. The hug wasn't just about the physical closeness; it was about communication, connection, love and protection. And safety. That too.

Yes, we feel your love and care. It spills out in all your posts. I think people can sense the intensity of your love here.

Admittedly, while I'm fairly generous and affectionate with my virtual hugs, I'm a pretty crappy hugger in my offline, face-to-face world.

I mean, my family was never big on hugs (or showing much affection in general). So hugging people doesn't come naturally to me. I kind of had to observe the people around me, and almost had to learn how to give hugs (odd as that may sound because it's not exactly rocket science).

I've been known to give the awkward side hug and even a pat on the shoulder. But I try my best...

Anyways, beautiful post.

I, for one, appreciate the virtual hugs. Moreover, I appreciate the deep concern and love behind it.

You're amaze.

Dottie xxxxxxx

And there's nothing boring about neutral nail polish colours. You're just tasteful and classy whereas I'm aiming for the 5 year old aesthetic 😉

Dottie xxx

Sorry I had to skip out on the girls night. I identify as transmasculine in online spaces where it's safe to do so. The Sandra Dee song is great though ;)

I've also never been a hugger - there's one person that I enjoy hugs with, while all others feel forced and awkward. Like when a little kid is told that they have to hug a visiting relative to say hi/bye even though they don't even know the person... except as an adult. But hugs with that one person, I totally get what you mean Sara. There's nothing quite like it when the emotional connection is already there, both people genuinely want the physical contact, and you can share that feeling of warmth, caring and just being there with the other person in that moment.

Thank you for sharing of yourself.