Hi Zenobia,

Ha. Ha. No I am not 110, some days my body feels that way though with various aches and pains. Today I am a sprightly just over 50 year old!

I grew up with a Mum who held onto bitterness, regrets and hurts, I decided that was not the way I wanted to be. Mum and Dad could have had a happier relationship I believe if past hurts had been recognised, dealt with and left behind as incidents that happen but can be let go of eventually.

Understanding now how the garden reminds you so much of a time and experience you miss, I am wondering if you can see your garden through different eyes. You could take your own photos of your garden, maybe use something like a teapot or a child's toy as a prop in the garden. Or if you have a garden gnome move that various places each day.

Letting go of dreams and desires can be confusing, hurtful and tiring. Hopefully by helping others at work and also looking for a new job yourself will help you to divert some of your attention and thoughts.

Please don't give up on dreams, ideas or the thought of happiness. Over the years I have realised my husband has been unable to provide me with the support and emotional needs I have. In time I have learnt to provide for myself. Sometimes I need to be creative in my thinking.

If that savage beast of Revenge does come out of its cave, have a good look at it and ask yourself if you really want it hanging around. Will it be of any benefit to you? Maybe writing out how you are feeling, yelling into your pillow or running around the back yard might be more beneficial than encouraging revenge to happen.

Wishing you all the best with your job interview!

Cheers for now from Mrs. D.

Dear Zenobia~

First if not to late good luck both with the interview and also with helping those who too have lost their jobs.

The question you were asking in your last post was thought of some time in the past by Tennyson. The reason I mention it is twofold, first so you realize (I'm sure you do already) that this facet of the human condition has been borne by many over the centuries and secondly because I think I have an answer that fits me.

If you had asked me after my first wife died I would have said it was not worth it - no way, the pain too great. A year later I was a different person. If you had asked me if I broke a leg I might have thought the same at the time, but not when healed.

Apart from changing circumstances, even if I had not re-married, eventually I would have thought it better to know what love was (one has to experience it to know it) than go though life otherwise. With you it's twice I know. This is just me.

In your garden what obvious change can you make that drives the past out? Now you will think me ridiculous and I fully admit it may be impractical, but perhaps an animal? From a goat to a guinea-pig? Maybe something your daughter might relate to and love, even is she has to look mostly though a window.

There have been two people in my life I would have done ill to for revenge, now from an age much older than you or Mrs D I'm very glad I didn't. Would not have sat well.

Croix

Dear Mrs D and Croix,

Thank you.

I will write more later but now I need time. Just quickly though- I'm doing OK.

Zen

Dear Zen,

Hi. Time is good. Take as much as you need. May peace fill your heart mind and soul.

Cheers to you from Mrs. D.

Dearest Mrs D and Croix,

I know itis wrong, I do I do. I am also so so jealous that they are both 'happy' and I am miserable. It is I who have lost everything, they are on the path to saving their marriage. He now has a love life again and I look forward to bleakness.

Croix, we both understand the death of a very loved person, losing their love and to be able to give love. When N died, I grieved, and grieved. I lost my future, my plans, my husband, my lover, my partner, the father of our baby. But it was normal grief. The person I lost and trusted, did not hurt me or reject me.

This time there is betrayal. There is so much pain because he won't try to even lighten my anguish. The person I trusted the most to look after me, protect me from emotional harm destroyed me and takes no responsibility beyond admitting it is his fault. He won't meet privately so I can get answers. This is where the desire for revenge comes in. I panic when I need to go shopping, as they live in the biggest shopping /business precinct to me, in case I bump into his wife while I am sure that I don't enter their consciousness at all.

Working with him this week was fine. But his wife showed up on both days, at both premises and watched me (only long enough for me to know she was there waiting for her husband). This week I will insist he tell her to not come to our workplace or at least that she wait in the car.

With death, there is the support of family and friends. In this situation, there is only the support of strangers (which doesn't detract from the love, and is kind of more valuable because a stranger gives it to me out of goodness not obligation).

I will get over it in my garden, but it all takes time.

The interview was positive and I may have opened the door for my colleagues too.😊

The following post will be an example of what we had...

L,

Zenobia

Hi again,

The soap opera continues...

So at work on Thursday, I decided to remind him how I feel. By giving him a slip of paper with words he once wrote to me, not long before he rejected me. As we had no opportunity to discuss it, I have no idea what he felt about it. He was immediately distracted by a client after reading it so I didn't even see his reaction.

It said:

Zenobia my heart is aching from love, I can write a hundred pages for you everyday & can discover everyday a new way to shape the language differently to help me reveal one small facet of my feelings. But the truth is I can't love you more than I do, you have all of me & your soul is wearing mine like that winter coat of yours.
You've got me Zenobia, I'm all yours I have opened all my gates & lowered all my flags & have surrendered to your will.
Be merciful, my queen, rule however you please, but don't abandon me.

These sorts of messages,some so beautiful and uplifting and inspiring, passed between us almost every day. Yet he abandoned me, so easily...

I am human, is he now saying these same things to his wife? I don't understand how it goes from this to nothing... I don't understand and I think I will never get over him until I do understand.

Would it be wrong to threaten him with exposure if he doesn't find an opportunity to talk to me? I know it is wrong, but if I need it for me and I can't get resolution any other way, is it so wrong? I know it is possible that he may lose any iota of respect he may still have for me, but sometimes I care and sometimes, frankly, I don't give a damn.

Thanking you in advance for your advice

Zenobia ​

Mrs Dools

A video for your tree house. Google

Youtube prem rawat sunset

Zenobia, a video for you. Google

Youtube prem rawat the perfect instrument

Inner peace should be the target for all of us

Tony WK

Hi Zen,

Sorry i haven't posted but i have been following your thread. My heart breaks for you, seeing the pain you are in and what you are going through. I think you have every right to ask that hi wife wait in the car. Her coming to the office and watching you is intimidation. I wish i had a magic switch that could turn off your feelings for him. After reading the beautiful note and seeing that he is now playing 'happy families' would definitely put doubt in your mind as to his sincerity and how easily he can switch from one to the other.

I wish i had words that could take your pain away but i know no words can do that. Just know i am thinking of you and wish the best for you.

cmf x

Hi Tony,

Well that toutube cetainly puts things in perspective doesn't it? So do the needy people all around the world. How selfish we are as humans. Perhaps living in this wonderful society of ours has cushioned us too much from the rest of humanity, the daily news desensitising us from the individual's pain as we see the collective diasters too big for us to solve. And conversely, the focus on our pain closing us to the rest of the world's and our own beauty and miracle of life.

Thanks CMF, actually your avatar has been continually reminding me to not go down the revenge path,

Re his sincerity, this is the big question, the not understanding is the cause of the anguish.

It is a beautiful, but cold , beautiful day out there.

I will spend some time in it and get those beautiful Vitamin D rays.

Take care all,

Zenobia

Dear Zenobia~

Yes I know there is betrayal too. That adds an extra dimension to the grief. Maybe I felt that way when invalided out. Certainly grief and a measure of perceived betrayal was involved, though not in the same arena as yours.

Please bear with me, I may sound a little blunt below, it is not from lack of understanding or care.

I think, reading your words, you are thrashing around, trying all sorts of things to make the hurt less. You said:

... but if I need it for me and I can't get resolution any other way ...?

When trapped by circumstances that can happen. I'm not sure it would do any good, give you resolution or help. Being in the middle of the anguish it might be hard to judge and in desperation any any action seem worth trying. None will resurrect what you had or bring quick closure.

I doubt any could substitute revenge or anything else, I'd be afraid they would just add to your burden.

You show his words - fine ones, though in my reading not addressed to an equal, but someone with all the responsibility. In all your other posts you show his lack of worth and infidelity. Both originating in the same person. I'm afraid that just points out that words are not the window to the soul one might hope.

I know every day is a battle to live with the hurt. You have strength.

Croix

Oh Croix,

You made me smile...still grinning.

I have written a very serious email to him, which hints at the threat but asks for the closure clearly....it is still in my drafts. Let's hope I don't weaken and send it. Maybe I'll just send the bit about telling him that he should tell his wife to stay away from work when she knows I am there. Surely that's a fair request.

Thank you all,

I intend to be quiet about this all for a while now and let you all regroup your energy and direct it where it is needed more.

(if the question is allowed, what do you mean by invalided out ?)

Zenobia

Dear Zenobia

I'm really pleased you had a grin, good for the soul and good for me to know I did it.

If you want a break for you -that's fine.

But let you all regroup your energy and direct it where it is needed more is misguided. You have the same needs as any - and we have the need to help as well as receive, it is how this place works.

Invalided out -um, I was a policeman and the job disappeared when I was no longer able to function due to job-related stress (PTSD, Depression, Anxiety). It was a long time ago and there were few measures in place to prevent such things happening or help. I felt used, betrayed along with grief and other things. Still not a time I can look back on with equanimity.

If it was me - it's not I know - I would not send any emails, although still a major part of your life I would try to act as if it was not. (hope that makes sense) Talking of work, do you still have to finish up soon?

Croix

Croix,

I was taking a break because I know the answers and it is up to me to just live with it whether I like it or not. I have been given so much advice and encouragement here and if it was someone else, I would be advising the exact same thing. So, I thought I'd leave you all alone. Somewhere deep inside I was hoping someone would validate my actions.

As a policeman, you would have seen the results of revenge again and again.... and to be made to feel useless after all that you gave to society. It is thankless and unfortunately, even though they have "procedures" in place today, they still seem tokenistic. Ashley Bryant is testament to that. That poor man's death may result in more genuine change than anything else. Let's hope so.

The thanklessness of our society towards those who do the most difficult jobs (nurses, paramedics, police, firies) on a day to day basis is extraordinary, yet when a tragedy is averted, when a fire is put out without loss of life, only then do we fall at your feet. You should be supported every day, on and off duty.

I owe police a thank you when my husband died but when I wished to find the officers involved in the accident scene, my in-laws protected me and were trying to get me to move on. The person guilty of my husband's death, to my knowledge was never brought to justice (he fled to Greece). My husband was killed by an unlicensed drink driver in a truck (0.49).

So, I thank all police or emergency service respondents out there who do an amazing job every day and feel that they are not appreciated. Most of us do care!

Yes after 19 years of being a benchmark provider of education to migrants and refugees, our college lost a contract for political/cost cutting reasons.

Come 1st July, I need to find a new employer... and leave behind colleagues that are like family.

Thank you for everything Croix

Z x

Hi Z, absolutely it's a fair request for his wife to stay away fom work ,you are so right there ,in regards to the email ,I personally would'nt send it ,I think all that has happened has made you so much stronger ,I am not sure who said it but I do beleive it to be true ,as hard as it is ,feeling revenge or hanging onto resentfull feelings ,just seems to make's us ill while the perseived perpetrator seems to be unaffected ,"it's like drinking poison and expecting the wrong doer to feel ill" i do beleive that forgivness gives us freedom ,as hard as it is ,to seperate the person from the behaviour ,and get our life back ,just my 2 cents ,I am sure things will turn around for you ,I really do ,and what you have been through is a test and you have passed with flying colours ,the good stuff you deserve is coming ,stay strong .All my very best Z ,Ross.

Dear Zen,

i was in a position several months ago where I felt the need to write how I was feeling toward someone and wanted to send it. I kept it as a draft, hesitant to send for fear it would cause added conflict. I thought I would send it if he contacted me as a reply to whatever he said. I still didn't send it. I kept that message, I looked back on it several times. Eventually my hurt subsided. Eventually I deleted it. I realised it wasn't worth it, it would just give him ammunition.

sending the email will not change anything. I know you want to express how you feel, I know you want him to know, but I it will not change anything except give you maybe temporary relief. If you are like me, you will think about later ,and maybe wish you didn't send it. Don't show him a side of you thinking that is not really you, it is just your anger and hurt. Don't give him a reason to think anything bad or negative of you, because that is not you.

Tell him his wife needs to stay away, after all what is her point? What is she trying to achieve? Tell her to move on, just as you are trying to do.

cmf x

Hey Ross and CMF,

As per your advice, I have culled the email to merely requesting, firmly, that his wife meet him elsewhere than in the workplace.

If I continue to do the right thing, I will probably end up losing all contact with him. Remember too, that he has NO ONE in Australia, no other friends, no family and soon no workplace. It will leave him totally under her control and no one else to watch out for him. I was hoping to keep in contact once a month by email. Just Christmas card stuff that his wife could see too, just to know that he is OK. You can't go from loving someone to not caring about them. I still care about his physical and mental well being. I would be so happy if I knew he was here on the forum somewhere getting help from you guys.

But, by following your instructions, he'll either see my goodness and allow (or fight to have) a monthly email connection or he will disappear totally from my life after the 30th June.

I guess it is up to him... I'll stay good.

Gracias amigos

Z.

Z

hi just wondering how you are going?

How did the application for the email connection go?

What is happening to help you move on with your life?

Take care

Quirky

Just letting you know I haven't forgotten you Z. Hope all is relatively OK and life is going on...as it tends to do.

A married man I know (that I told you about) did disappear from the"other woman's" life completely....for about 15 years. Seeing his handwriting on an envelope to the "interfering friend" who did a search and put them in touch with each other was the most amazing experience for her.

Just seeing his writing - so you can imagine her nervousness when she heard that knock on the door, knowing he was standing on the other side of it!! I hope everything will turn out OK for you...and that you find someone wonderful - just as wonderful as him. I think you will.

Dear dear all,

Thank you for thinking of me while I was 'away'. As you can imagine, a lot has happened. When I asked that his wife no longer accost me at work I got the most horrible threatening email! I was so shocked and he not only defended his wife's right to visit him at work, he said she had done nothing he did not approve of! He also stated that he would ruin my career and reputaion by filing a complaint with HR if i did not stop sending emails that were not work related. Can you imagine the horror, anger and hurt that this additional betrayal added?

I sought legal advice and was told that there is no harassment issue and that it was personal. I did my best to avoid any further confrontations with him until Monday week ago.

On that Monday, his wife came to lunch. He greeted her with a kiss and spent the whole time being affectionate with her out in the communal garden area. I can't tell you how that felt. I was jealous but also so angry that he could be so insensitive to how it might make me feel. After lunch I confronted him and told him how cruel it was and reminded him how jealous he was when I merely spoke friendly to another man or colleague.

He told me that his counsellor had instructed them to have a friendly intimate lunch at the work place where the 'bad stuff' had happened. This is another scene where the counsellor did not consider the effect of the other party involved. Could they not forsee what it would do to me?

Anyway, I told him I had a 36 page response breaking no laws to his vicious disgusting email but he begged me not to send it because it will stir everything up with his wife. Again I feel like I have to protect him at the expense of myself. All I want to do is defend my self from those allegations and lies. It tells me though that despite him saying how much he loves his wife, that things are still so volatile there.

Anyway, I decided not to send it.

Last friday, our work place shut down for the last time. He did not say anything nice to me, not one kind word. Ignored me, offered contact and friendship to everyone else, but looked at me and shook his head and said I was allowed zero contact forever! Apparently, receiving an email once a month would be like getting that annoying visit from the 'mother-in-law'...

Anyway, i am now forced to move on but knowing now that I will never see him again, or speak or text or email, has reopened all the hurt.

Thank you all but truth be told, i know i will be OK.

Zen x

Dearest Croix,

I am sorry I went too far.

Zen x

Dear all,

During my confrontation with him, he let something slip out that worries me immensely. It is a HUGE concern -and that is his kids. They are 2 and 4. Apparently he has been humiliated within his family and community to the point where his kids have been told and shown physically what he did with me and where Daddy touched me! He let this slip out. I was disgusted naturally and told him how inappropriate it was!

What do I do? I know they were exposed to a lot of anger and violence but if as he has assured me, he and his wife are getting on well and 'rekindling ' their love, do I assume it happened in the past and all is good now? I am so frightened for their mental well being.

He told me when he was seriously upset and I don't know if that is a cry for help because he knows how wrong it is and can't do anything about it or what. Do i step back and let things go? What if I am the only person who knows what is going on? They are seeing a marriage counsellor, is it likely that they would pick up or notice if something is wrong?

I believe I have analysed this objectively for over two weeks now and I have tried to look at it without any self interest or bias... but am I?

God i don't know what to do!

Zenobia.

I do not want to be a meddler.

I know he has concerns about his children's behaviour.

The eldest has social issues and has been kicked out of play group, has also had to find a different pre-school, and the younger seems to he progressing through the milestones much slower than his brother (which if course could mean nothing but could also be a reflection of the environment).

I will ask my counsellors advice...

Zenobia

Thanks for your update.

I am sorry you are still feeling hurt . You wrote "I know I will be OK". I believe that too.

In my opinion I think for your health you need to concentrate on yourself and not worry about him or his family.

You are a caring woman but I feel you need to care for yourself and while you are thinking about him it is upsetting you.

Just my thoughts and I maybe off the mark. I have been the other woman and I can understand your pain.

Wishing you kind thoughts

Quirky

Thanks Quirkywords, I am inclined to agree with you. I spoke to my counsellor today and she mentioned mandatory reporting but she felt it is probably not necessary because the bond he has with the kids is strong and safe. She feels that at age 4 he may not remember if it isn't reinforced and school will step in next year if he says anything when he starts.

I am going to let it go and accept ALL the blame because he has laid it all on to me. At least i have this betrayal pain that will fade... he may have a worse life ahead than I do.

Poor quirky, you too? The stigma is enormous isn't it?

Zen.

Hi Zen

Wow that is heavy stuff. Who told his kids stuff like that? How irresponsible and certainly not your fault. It takes 2 to tango.

You have seen another side of him now.I know it is hard and you're deeply hurt but remind yourself that this side of him is part of him. Do not take all the blame, he put it on you to make himself feel better but HE was the married one, not you. HE was the one with young children to think of,not you.

Speaking of children, how is your daughter doing?

Zenobia

You are not blame for everything. You are a caring compassionate person.

LIke CMF I am interested in how your daughter is.

Zenobia, for me it was many decades ago before I was married and was more physical than anything but when his wife found out she blamed me - well actually she said I was liar - a bit complicated but amazing how the other woman is seen as the seducer when it takes two to tango. That is the past and even though I was manic I take responsibility .

I think many people here have said you have a lot going for you , it may take time and I know you also have challenges as well.

I am please d you came back to let us know how you are going as many people here are concerned for you.

Quirky

Hi again,

Yes I took time off writing because I felt that as beneficial it is to unload and have the support of others, if there is nothing new, I felt I was cementing a dependent behaviour. I needed you all so badly, your understanding and reassurance but then noticed I was getting dependent on your support to get me through so then by holding off for a few weeks I made myself make my own steps in the world again. I did however stop in and browse but felt totally too weak to contribute or help others as i felt my viewpoint wasn't healthy enough to offer any aide.

One thing Quirky, with being the other woman, is why does the wife forgive the husband and take them back then blame the other woman? We don't go into it to destroy the marriage... it already had problems! I believed every word he said and that he was going to leave her and I still believe he meant it but did not have the courage to go through with it.

Anyway, re the children, when he told me he was so distressed by it that it could only have been his wife who told them. I can envisage her telling them in front of him to humiliate him and show him that she can turn the kids against him by saying how bad daddy was. What bad things daddy did and made mummy upset. He knows how damaging it is to the kids otherwise he would not have said anything. Again, was it a cry for help? Did he want me to step in? I don't know! I don't think so.

I am going to look after US now.

My beautiful daughter has now had her appointments with her neuro and she has a cyst in her spinal cord which could be causing the issues she has in her hands and feet but no definitive answer. She needs an upright MRI now to check for another possible issue. She often has severe tachychardia (superfast heart beat) . Her neuro asked her of all the issues, which one thing would she like to get rid of. She said the pain and exhaustion. Dr prescribed her 1/50th the normal dose because of the unpredictable nature of how her body deals with meds allowing her to slowly increase her dose and she seems to be getting some relief. For her to get a cuppa or something to eat can be so exhausting wnd painful. It has been good that I am now unemployed this week just to help her out and 'serve' to ease her pain.

After 3 weeks stuck at home, she has managed to go over to her friend's place tonight. So happy for her.

Hoping for some good news on the job front next week.

Thank you and I hope you weren't too worried. Sorry😶

Zenobia.

HI Zenobia,

Wishing you and your daughter well as you both move forward in a life that can be full of all kinds of pain!

Your comment about feeling like you needed this forum is one I am sure a lot of people can relate to. Earlier this year when my mental health was hitting rock bottom, I found the comfort and care of people here to be so very beneficial, helpful, and comforting.

There may be a time when a person has a thread here regarding similar issues you have experienced and you may be able to help and advice them.

A friend sent me a message today about taking things day by day, step by step, process by process, and to look forward, trying to make the most of all the resources we have around us to help aid our well being.

I'm going to try to do that. Hopefully you can as well.

Cheers to you from Mrs. D.

Dear Zenobia~

I had been wondering how you and your daughter are fareing, so I'm pleased you are here - though not at your distress.

May I speak frankly? I stand outside the matter and may see it clearer (and less sympathetically) as a result. I did debate with myself if I should do so, but decided I would not be a friend if I did not respect you enough to tell the plain truth.

I think it is a good thing that man showed his true colors and total disregard of you well-being - something he has done consistently, but now to the extent that it must become clear to you, no matter your love or how you personally feel.

His wife's behavior is as one might expect. Blaming you serves to excuse and insulate herself inside her unsatisfactory selfish world. The business with their children is very vague, secondhand and no doubt done in spite - if true. The teller is an unreliable weakling with his own agenda.

It is a horrible thing to be closed out. I had it when I was formally disinherited by my family, hard to believe, causes self-doubt and feelings of unworthiness. These are all beliefs and feelings caused by the perpetrators and foisted on the unlucky recipient who in no way deserves them.

It took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that there never had been any love there, heartbreaking.

I don't know if all this makes sense. It boils down to the fact you are the victim, the wronged party - and a lovely caring vulnerable person. They are the ones (the man included) who ride roughshod over others for their own selfish and unstable ends.

Please do not think I'm insulting you by saying you are a victim or vulnerable, in some ways it is a tribute to your kind and loving nature that you find weak selfish underhanded people so alien that you have no real knowledge of their ways and so no defense. It has become obvious from all your posts. you are a strong and capable person. I'm afraid you were naive, but no longer. I admire you.

You may feel I'm coming on rather strong, perhaps, but I'm complimenting you with the truth as I see it.

OK, having said all that I'll move on. I'm sorry your job ended and hope another presents itself soon.

With you daughter, as you say, being at home just now has been an advantage. So has the sensible approach to medication increase. Going to her friend's a blessing.

This has been a very bad episode in your life, knowing you I'm most sure things will improve greatly.

Croix