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Forums / Long term support over the journey / I am the 'other woman' and I'm not evil.

Topic: I am the 'other woman' and I'm not evil.

  1. Zenobia
    Zenobia avatar
    118 posts
    8 July 2017 in reply to Croix

    Dear Croix,

    I am offended by nothing you have said. I don't mind being called a victim. Women in my position are often called the offender and worse. Their pain is rarely recognised as being a victim. Should I have known better? Looking back even with hindsight? No way I could have known it would end like this. The counsellor and I discussed how his total self interest and the selfish way he broke me (I am broken) without any thought to my feelings, was motivated by fear for his children.

    However, for that he CANNOT be forgiven because he knows that staying in a bad relationship will do more damage to the child in the long run than separation. He KNOWS that I would have been an absolute beneficial influence in his children's lives. He KNOWS despite his wife's threats, he would still have access to his children.

    I thought it'd get better, that he would acknowledge honestly what happened and even if he made a free choice to return to his wife, simply give me the respect I deserve and talk to me about his decision.

    He didn't.

    And this is what I now have to come to turns with. So Croix, and everyone else who has said more or less the same thing, he is a total b......d. No matter how guilty he feels about how he hurt me, it does not nullify that he chose to hurt me, that he did hurt me, over and over again.

    I take heart from this forum, your sage wisdom, and the millions of sad break up songs out there that are telling my story so eloquently, that I have been used, abused and left to repair myself. Was I fool? I don't think so, perhaps only in not believing that this man of all men could be so cruel, that even now I want to defend him.

    I agree that he is weak. He was given options, I showed him a future where there was happiness, support and dreams. He CHOSE darkness, misery and hate. Hate, he and his wife having a common enemy, me. He didn't think I was worth the more difficult path of divorce. Perhaps that is what is difficult to understand. And his total indifferent, patronising manner that he exhibited in the last couple weeks when our paths crossed at work. I'm only seeing it now, but even so I still adore him... the other him - I guess that's what you are saying this is him too.

    Yes, naiive and now forever suspicious. Anyway, that's enough. No more self ingulgent poor me, Croix, I hope I am stronger but without being cynical and depressing to be around. I want to be resilient without being tough.

    Thanks and truly, love to you all,

    Z.

  2. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    9 July 2017 in reply to Croix

    To the men out there and the morhers of sons,

    This is a hard question to ask and it does not insinuate that you know personally, but, from the 'locker room ' environment, do men believe what they say to win and then totally posess a woman, believe the promises they make and just change their mind? Or do they wake up one day and just not feel it anymore?

    The alternative would be that it is planned and that would just be abhorrent.

    I know everyone is different but not having a son or other close male relative, besides my dad, I don't know who to ask.

    Zenobia x

    (Fishing for the answer I want to hear i guess but will accept the truth)

  3. white knight
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    9 July 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Hi Zenobia

    Your qquestion is a little like "are men nurcherers or do they pretend they love children?" Or "are men affectionate or do they cuddle women to appear so?"

    Its all irrelevant because of the 5 billion men on the planet you'd have 5 billion degrees of differences of that.

    There is a wider problem of over analyzing in that it causes you to become a person dwelling on issues dont you think?

    It might be time to consider major disstractions like hobbies, travel, sports.....

    Tony WK

  4. Croix
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    9 July 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Dear Zenobia~

    I agree with Tony, you are looking for non-existent answers. To quote you:

    I know everyone is different

    Life would be so much easier if people fell into categories as you describe, one could then have a strategy for each, fortunately they don't.

    Please hang on to the fact that there are many genuine good people in the world. Also the fact that a lot do not wish to 'win and totally posses' another, but seek a partnership where both win.

    Tony is also right in thinking that distraction can help heal.

    Croix

  5. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    9 July 2017 in reply to Croix

    Yes dear friends,

    I wished i'd not sent that post because I do know the answer...

    Thank you...

    sorry😟😔😶

  6. Croix
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    9 July 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    I wished i'd not sent that post

    Sending that post was fine.

    You are hurting and trying to find ways to deal with it. That takes talk. Some talk just confirms what we know.

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  7. white knight
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    9 July 2017 in reply to Croix

    Hi

    You have healed a fair bit in some areas Z. But it all must get to a point whereby you do actually move on or the whole mess will remain detrimental to your well being.

    Thats where distraction is vital.

    Tony WK

    1 person found this helpful
  8. white knight
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    9 July 2017 in reply to white knight

    A short relevant comparison

    Last year we planned a round Oz trip with our closest friends of 25 years. At NT we had a major breakdown and we were abandoned by our friends. We had it all out at Broome and we parted ways.

    That was 13 months ago. We are currently touring Queensland and have driven through their town twice. Its hard to not think about them and regurgitate the whole sorry saga.

    But we move on. We talk little dbout it and enjoy our time. Life is too short to dwell on stuff

    TonyWK

    1 person found this helpful
  9. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    9 July 2017 in reply to Croix

    Thanks for you understanding Croix.

    Tony, I too was in the NT, Gibb River Rd and Broome last year...hope we didn't drive past...

    But crucially it is the word we. That's what I have missed since my husband died when our daughter was a baby. I thought I'd found my we and that I would have a life partner to make decisions with, share amazing moments with, grow old with...that is what he had promised. It lasted 5 years of friendship and 162 days of pure love. Then it was all gone. In an instant.

    Thanks for your analogy too. At the moment I think how much I hate him but that feeling actually feels superficial. I think I wish I could hate him so it would be easier to move on... but I am not a hater. Don't want to become one either, not really. Just some sort of self protective barrier.

    I have come an amazingly long way from that dark day that I genuinely thought I should end it all. As broken as I feel, that feeling has totally totally gone. Hope I never feel it again. But you know what? So many people feel that every day. I am lucky that it isn't something I struggle with. Now I feel that for the briefest of moments, I have walked in another's shoes. Someone who I would never have understood before and probably judged differently than I would today. So, if nothing else good comes out of this, perhaps I am a more understanding person. Someone who will never pre-judge a person again. After all, I am 'the other woman' someone who I would have judged harshly before, and I have felt real grief, despair and now betrayal.

    Perhaps one day I can help another.

    I have always wanted to write a book. Perhaps my characters will be deeper, more real if I ever get around to writing it.

    Thanks friends,

    Zen.

    1 person found this helpful
  10. Ken1
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    17 July 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Hey Zenobia,

    What do you envision your mending process looking like? Yes, you are so understandably feeling broken now, but what are your plans for 'putting Humpty back together again' so to speak (excuse the reference!)

    I really sympathise with so many of your feelings and the horrible pain you've endured, but I wonder, do you think it's easier for you to deal with the freedom of forgiveness or the pain of condemning? I don't know whether he made the right decision in going back to his life - perhaps you do. But his decisions are totally his. All you can do is focus on how YOU can move forward in a way that allows you to return to your best self. That process may take a while, but you also have a degree of control over what emotional hurdles pop up along the way, i.e. learning to forgive (SO easier said than done).

    He didn't treat you well which is totally on him but that's something he's going to have to deal with. You don't have to deal with his actions, emotions, etc. You just have to deal with yours.

    In my experience at life so far, I have come to the conclusion that anyone who hurts you twice is not worth being allowed the opportunity to hurt you a third time. He's just not worth you because he didn't treat you how you deserved to be treated! He's not worth your continual thoughts, whether it be anger, pain, love, whatever. He's just not worth it. But you are worth happiness and acceptance of a horrible situation. You are worth your own eventual joy.

    I also want to encourage the idea of there being another we out there! This particular 'we' didn't go very well for you at all. But this man is not a 'one size fits all'.

    I don't know the secret ingredient to moving on, but I know that it has everything to do with you. It's all in your hands. It's about how to heal YOUR heart. It's not about what he did, what he said, etc, but about how to mend the wounds that were created as a result of the situation. That's where the healing process begins.

    I love love that you've travelled this incredible journey and that you're far from the place where you wanted to end it all. I also love your reflection on what you've gained from this experience, despite all the horrible parts of it. If you do write a book, I would love to read it.

    Bonnie

    1 person found this helpful
  11. white knight
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    17 July 2017 in reply to Ken1

    Hi Bonnie,

    Absolutely fabulous reply. Exactly my thoughts. I hope Zen takes that next step.

    Tony WK

    2 people found this helpful
  12. quirkywords
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    18 July 2017 in reply to Ken1

    Bonnie what a detailed analysis, Zenobia, I wonder what your response is to Bonnie's post.

    I agree Zenobia if you write a book I will be buying it. I can see you growing through this experience and while it is painful now I can see how you have change since your first post. You keep gaining insights as well as you are brave enough to show us your flaws as well as your strengths.

    Take care

    Quirky

    1 person found this helpful
  13. CMF
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    8660 posts
    18 July 2017 in reply to quirkywords

    Write the book Zen.

    Just reading your words here I can feel how you feel, you write so deeply. I say go for it, it may be a good release for you.

    How i your daughter?

    Hope you and your daughter are doing ok.

    2 people found this helpful
  14. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    5 August 2017 in reply to Ken1

    Dear Bonnie, Tony, Quirky and CMF,

    I can’t tell you what a major turning point you have just caused in my head.

    After my last post, I checked in a few times to see if there was a response and ‘My Thread’ did not show up in bold so I thought there was nothing there. I also thought my last post sounded a bit arrogant and thought I had turned you all away. I have also been so tired and busy (I started the new job).
    However, I thought I should post something to let you all know that I am not ‘cured’ but that I was going OK. I was going to write:

    “ Hi all, things have a gotten a bit nasty because I asked for clarification on the children…”

    Then I saw your posts and I started howling. I write through the tears still (but the howling has stopped). I think I read your words at exactly the right time to read them. A week earlier and they would not have seemed so powerful as they are today.

    Oh Bonnie, what you said is exactly what I needed to hear. I think you have just changed my future. My psychologist did not even come close to your words and guidance. I was going to take up the challenge he laid down and I was going to fight. Now I will throw the proverbial knives down at his feet before I inflict one cut and walk away from this whole mess. I thought I had done that but you made me realise I had done it on the outside not on the inside where it really mattered. I hold one knife tenuously between my fingers still, scared to let go completely, for defence or to inflict I am not sure. Bonnie Bonnie … thank you.

    You ask how will my healing begin? Perhaps all your encouragement can lead to my therapy… writing? I do not know.
    Truly, all of you thank you.

    Zenobia xxx

    I will write again soon. Need to go away and process...


  15. quirkywords
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    6 August 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Zenobia

    I am glad Bonnie's wise words helped you, they helped me too.

    Thanks for letting us know how you are. That is powerful that someone's word can change your future.

    Look forward there is a whole wide world out there.

    I have finally started my own thread- Be yourself- who am I.

    Take care

    Quirky

    1 person found this helpful
  16. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    7 August 2017 in reply to CMF

    Hi again,

    Things have gotten so much better for me since your posts above. I have posted on Quirky's Who am I as I feel better I(that sounds weird to say yet promising).

    My daughter has good days and bad days and they have now found a cyst in her spinal column. They will probably leave it alone but tomorrow she needs to have an upright MRI to find something else they suspect. We are still waiting for the geneticist appointment (6-12month waiting list and its been about 7 months already and we still haven't been given a date).

    She turns 27 soon and has to come to terms with knowing that it will never get better. As i write this, she is watching something on her tablet laughing her head off..i admire her so much.

    Have to tbink of a really wonderful surprise for her birthday...

    It's comforting and gives a sense of security knowing you are thinking of me and my daughter.

    Take care

    Zen x

    1 person found this helpful
  17. quirkywords
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    27 August 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Zen

    I just read your post on another thread and your last post here, what a contrast.

    I am worried about you.

    I know your daughter's health is always a big concern and must be hard for you.

    I realise you are still hurting from your break up and probably have questions that may never be answered.

    I just wanted to say if you want to write hear I am hear to read and listen and hold your hand .

    Sending kind thoughts

    Quriky

    1 person found this helpful
  18. quirkywords
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    26 September 2017 in reply to quirkywords

    Zen

    Just seeing how you are going as I have not seen you around for a while.

    Quirky

    1 person found this helpful
  19. Pinot
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    2 posts
    2 October 2017
    Dear Zenobia, I just wanted to let you know that you are not evil. In fact, I can tell you this because I have been through the same experience. An affair with a man older than me. When people think of the "other woman" a sultry seductress comes to mind. I was none of that. I loved him. I still love him. The chemistry or magic between us was amazing. But he chose, the same as your lover chose and left me devastated, grief-stricken and broken. Two decades passed and I did not see him. Until one day he came back in to my life - not as an affair by the way. Those old feelings were back. The love, the anger, sadness and pain. I sought counselling. I had to, and it is literally the best thing I have ever done. Talking about my secret lifted a huge weight off my shoulders. I was not judged, I was supported. I was allowed to be open and honest. Yes, opening my scars was painful but the relief afterwards, oh the relief, made it worthwhile. One piece of advice has stuck with me. "Swap a habit for a good one". I have done this. I have started a postgrad degree (I have been procrastinating for years) and it has taken my focus to something different and interesting and I am getting positive results. But first, get counselling, get well, move forward. You can do this. I am so sorry to hear about your mum and your daughter. my youngest child also has a disability. It's tough. Look after yourself. I am here if you ever need to chat x
    2 people found this helpful
  20. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    7 October 2017 in reply to Pinot

    Hi Quirky and Pinot,

    I have to do something. I can't stop obsessing because as you pointed out, I don't have any answers. The questions, the thoughts, just keep circling. I think I am getting better and then I crash again. Maybe I need another psychologist. Although the one I saw was nice, I don't think she gave me any tactics to stop the obsessive thoughts. Pinot twenty years? I want to tell everyone now.

    Pinot, did you ever come to understand why, with that magic and connection, that he could just ignore it? Why would he return to the hell he was living? My counsellor said it was all about the children. But children are often, not always, but often better off in a divorced household especially if they have happier parents. He said to me that we were just building dreams in the sky, that it wasn't possible. I still don't see it as impossible I see him as having given up, choosing the easiest way out. And he won't speak to me and explain anything! I know I would be able to accept it better if he just spoke to me! Just one meeting I have asked for continually and he won't respond. I think he has blocked my messages and emails now. In the last three months I sent two text messages and four emails - two of those emails were job related. None of them were anything horrible.

    My family organised a week away for me... it made everything so much worse because I had time to think even more... I worry that I am becoming seriously obsessive and I don't know how to stop it.

    I am mature enough to know my value does not lie in his opinion of me but I am broken hearted enough to not be able to put those damned proverbial pieces back together.

    He told me to move on.... Is that insensitive or am I overreacting?

    He has changed me unfortunately as I was always a happy positive person, now I have started looking for the dark side in people. I know it is happening, but I can't control it.

    Friends, I have been avoiding you because I feel guilty - like a fair weather friend, but also because I sometimes worry that it might feed my obsession. I read other people's posts and want to respond, but feel like a fraud.

    Thank you again for caring so much.

    My daughter is going through a pretty good stage at the moment and hopefully she can enjoy the stability for awhile before her next round of ...stuff.

    Zen x

  21. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    7 October 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Ran out of characters above...

    I've been toying with the idea of writing my story knowing that it might just be my therapy if no one else ever reads it. I certainly don't want my family reading it... So I started writing last night and realised that this story started in 1984...

    Might post the first couple paragraphs for some truly honest opinions... maybe I should start a new thread.

  22. Zenobia
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    118 posts
    7 October 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Wow, I feel better now.

    Maybe I will cook us a nice dinner instead of getting takeaway...

    Thanks for just being there!

  23. quirkywords
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    7 October 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Zenobia

    Thanks for letting us know how you are. A story sounds like a great idea.

    Glad you are feeling a bit better/ Welcome Pinot and thanks for sharing your story so honestly.

    KInd thoughts

    quirky

    1 person found this helpful
  24. Pinot
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    2 posts
    17 October 2017 in reply to Zenobia

    Zenobia,

    I guess X (we'll call him that) returned because, simply, he wanted to. He had his rationale and life went on. I believe he wanted to honour his commitment to his family. I understand all your feelings about obsessing and wanting answers. Been there. Oh my gosh, definitely start seeing another psychologist. Do you have a great GP who recommend somebody good? You are clearly an intelligent person and analysing these feelings gives such clarity. A good therapist will give you tough love and that is not always easy to take. You will feel like you have been "sucker-punched" because of course your relationship and my relationship were different to the other extramarital ones out there. But they're not. And we both deserve better. The whole cake and not the crumbs. As you delve deeply into this situation with your therapist you will learn this statement is so true. You will heal and be stronger for it. Practice detachment and let him have his space. Do wonderful things for yourself, cook, get fit, write. Be around people who love and appreciate you. It does get better. I hope my experience helps.

    Thanks Quirky for your warm welcome.

    Pinot xxx

  25. SunnyVas
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    1 posts
    29 November 2019

    Hi Zenobia,

    I know it’s been 2+ years since you have been here so I don’t know if this post will get to you but if it does, I hope you’re in a much better place now and I hope your daughter is well.

    Please tell me there is a shining light at the end of the tunnel?

    I have read every post in this forum as I find myself in your exact shoes (well very similar). I am the other woman. I have been in a affair for just under a year now and it has been such a struggle. It’s hard to sum up the last year in a short post and I don’t even know how to put it into words so I will try my best.

    We have been friends for about 6 years and it wasn’t till the begin of this year that we confessed our love to each other. We were both shocked that we got to this stage as it something we both thought we would never ever do! He was unhappy in his marriage for a long time and was certain he was going to leave up until we got caught.

    From there it had put a delay to our relationship as he didn’t want it to look like he was leaving just because of me so his children won’t hate him. A lot of things happened throughout the year to the point where he left me a few times but then came back as our love was so strong and we could not bare to be apart.

    Over the last few weeks it’s been quite stressful and I feel he is going to walk away again. I know in my head I should probably just let it go but it hurts my heart so much. He is my best friend and I truely believe he is my soulmate.

    I don’t know what to do or how to get myself to be strong enough to just let it all go 😢

  26. quirkywords
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    29 November 2019 in reply to SunnyVas

    Hi Sunnyvas , welcome to the forum and well done for using your first post to support someone else.

    I am sorry for your situation and I can feel your frustration at not knowing what will happen and can feel the love you have.

    It can be hard following your heart when your head is telling yo to be practical/

    As this is Zenobia's thread, you may want to start your own thread. You could cut and paste this post.

    If you go to the FAQ thread, the first post shows you how to start a thread.

    If you have any problems come back here and I will check.

    Thanks again and I will look out for your thread if you decided to start one,

    Quirky

  27. Croix
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    30 November 2019 in reply to SunnyVas

    Dear SunnyVas~

    As Quirky says a thread of your own wold be ideal, in the meantime I'll welcome you too.

    Thinking over your situation I guess the one thing that stands out in any relationship is trust and confidence in the other person.

    It looks like if you had your wishes come true you would start being with this person in a permanent relationship, and for that to happen there does have to be that trust. At the moment you are left wondering -will he leave -what should I so and more.

    Can I suggest something rather difficult. Form a plan with him, a set of deadlines to separate, divorce or whatever needs doing and then just wait. Terribly hard. Waiting is something people have had to do, for a serviceman to return from duty, a person who has been ill in hospital for ages to .... well you get the idea.

    If he is not wiht you but still meets the deadlines and carries thogh you have someone you can trust, or so I'd think.

    To simply hope in an on-again off-again situation increases heartache , and is an easy way for him to obtain the best of both worlds without commitment.

    What do you think?

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  28. Moonstruck
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    3722 posts
    30 November 2019 in reply to SunnyVas

    Hi SunnyVas..... I am no use at giving advice but can share my story if you like...I was the other woman for quite a number of years...never expected him to leave his wife or child, didn't want to marry him or be in a domestic situation. Although our intimate relationship came to an end, due to a personal family crisis that needed his full attention and commitment..he ended it amicably, gently and respectfully.

    I never thought I would see him again and had no intention of intruding upon his family situation....many years later we found each other, quite by chance...and while not resuming an intimate relationship, have remained in touch and the closest of friends..after 30 plus years of first seeing each other "across a crowded room". It took only one glance and I knew I must have this man, in whatever capacity, for however long it lasted.

    when you are the other woman...there is no certainty, no guarantee he will not walk away again...it is not a situation for the faint-hearted.

    Croix I don't quite get your suggestion to "form a plan with him, a set of deadlines to separate, divorce or whatever needs doing"...as "the other woman" we go into this with our eyes wide open; that we have no rights at all to put any pressure on him to leave his wife, see us more often or whatever....

    SunnyVas....yes there is light at the end of the tunnel. It depends on what you want as the ultimate outcome, whether you really want this Dad to leave his children, and the devastating fallout that will inevitably occur ; or whether you can simply live in the moment and enjoy precious times with the man you love.

    .

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