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Forums / Long term support over the journey / I don't know what to do - a mess of a situation

Topic: I don't know what to do - a mess of a situation

  1. Aaronsis
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    16 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Good Morning Aaron

    I had to laugh at your comment that you would be going crazy if it wasn't for my help..you have done the work my friend, you are the one making the changes for you and making your future look brighter...you should feel so proud!

    I hear 100% what you are saying that you are in a phase of doubting what happened and possibly questioning "was it really that bad, did that really happen like that?" and I have done that in the past too, and I think that is what writing a list of pros and cons can do is not only put things into perspective for you but also act as a gentle reminder that I did feel like that or that was actually said to me...we do get lost in the process of guilt and I can hear you are doing a bit of that now, which is totally "normal" for want of a better word. Especially too seeing you are the caring type you are questioning if " perhaps it will be different if we get back together, or was it really all one way and she never asked about me or my feelings?" Please do not feel like you are at fault here or this is "your fault" you are on a journey to try to manage the way you respond to her and I can see you doing this so feel good about that, it is going to take time and this is a huge step for you to try to push back and to tell her no or that is not what I want. It is a difficult thing to do and especially if you are like us and have struggled with people pleasing as we have/do. I am so happy to hear that you are doing the thinking of "well I am doing this and asking about her wellbeing but is she doing that for me?" and that is a huge step forward to be able to reflect on what you have not received in the past and address it, so awesome for doing that too.

    Good job on the Melbourne trip I think you know what you want in that space, telling her sooner than later is a great idea too. Awesome that you have a friend to spend some time with here so that will be a little mini break for you as well as some good mental health time with your band and doing what you love. I know you are still questioning what is right for you but guess what...you will do that forever, noone I don't think has that mastered and that is the joy of life, and as you said you have learnt so much about people and about yourself, which is brilliant!

    I have a confession..I have a whole bag of the Wasabi doritos at work today.....yum!

    So far my day is going well, I am getting used to my new glasses, well wearing glasses...very strange!

    Sarah :)

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  2. rhinoceros
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    16 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    Glad I made you laugh! I do mean it though -as funny as it sounds. I was feeling pretty loopy at times. I'm still not at the point where I necessarily feel that the future is looking brighter. I guess in short-term there's a lot of stuff I still need to deal with with that still not really nice, but there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    I'm going to write a list of pros and cons. This is going to help sort out so much of the confusion I'm experiencing. When it's all swirling around in my head it's hard to make heads or tails out of anything. I am asking myself thinks such as ''was it that bad'' for example... objectively speaking, yes it was. That's the kind of think I have to hold myself to. I think loving someone that much can at times distort your perception of things. In many respects I should have left the relationship a long time ago, but that love kept me crawling back again and again.

    The counsellor on the phone yesterday made a great point in regards to people getting back together after a break-up. He said to stop and think about what has changed between before and after. If you've changed that's good, or if they've changed that's good too - but if there's no change, you end up in the same situation all over again...

    Time gigging with bands is good - tonight I'm working in an 18 piece big band -that will be fun. It's a most effective form of therapy. It forces me to stop overthinking about things.

    Tonight I plan to leave work a bit early to have a run before my gig tonight - I think that will help put me in a better mental state to start thinking about pros/cons lists and such :-)

    I love that you at the whole bag!! I frequently eat entire packets of chocolate Teddy Bear biscuits at my desk... I have no self control sometimes!!

    Glasses take a bit of time to get used to! I'm lucky I haven't had to wear them yet, but my Mum recently started wearing glasses - at the start she found it quite unpleasant but she is used to it now :-)

    Aaron

  3. Aaronsis
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    16 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hey Aaron

    Sorry I should not have laughed at you, I can only imagine what this journey is doing to you and yes, loopy is probably the best way to describe it. These things are emotionally and mentally draining and I am sorry you have to go through this, but yes....loopy is understatement I am sure!

    So happy to hear you are going to do the list, and you know what just purge too onto some paper and get it all out, doesn't have to make sense and it doesn't have to be for anyone but you, you may never read it again, but it feels amazing to dump it somewhere outside of your head. The list I think will just act as a gentle reminder that you had some real issues and that you are not making it up and that you were suffering in the relationship and that you were playing a carer and not a lover or partner. I totally agree with what you said about loving someone too, it so does distort your view and you take more that you should sometimes and that you think the love will save you or that your partner is only doing this or that out of love, it really isn't u step back and see it from another view point and go wow..that's not cool. I also hear you that it kept you "crawling" back when perhaps you should have left a long time ago, you know what..I said the same thing to myself when I left my marriage but you know what...you did what you needed to at the time, and the time for you to leave was now so please don't regret not doing it earlier, hindsight as we have said before is a wonderful thing!

    WOW..an 18 piece big band, that is impressive...and I am so happy to hear that it gives you a break from your overthinking and some mental down time, that is so very important...and going for a big run too will also help you to get all "fresh" in your brain so you can enjoy your night. I wish I could run sometimes, I love the idea of it but just cant do it..lol

    Yum I love chocolate teddy bear biscuits...well anything chocolate tbh...and when it comes to chocolate I am with you..no self control...which you know what....I don't care...lol

    Yes the glasses are taking time to get used to but I am looking at least 10% smarter now..hahha..I did feel a bit sick yesterday but today is better, think it is like motion sickness.

    I hope you have an awesome night with the Big Band and really get to have some fun and relax too.

    I am getting over the fire in my mouth from the doritos....yes we ate more...

    Sarah

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  4. rhinoceros
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    17 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    I'm glad I made you laugh! I really don't mind - sometimes it's good to have a laugh, even about an unpleasant situation. It's makes the experience that little bit less horrible if you can have a laugh. There's no doubting it's been draining but in the big picture this whole debacle is really a blip... will be glad when the blip finally finishes!

    I didn't get around to list-writing last night, but I hope to do that today. I ran 8.5 kms after work, just getting all that nervous/anxious energy out. Then I gigged until 11:30pm or so. Just doing that though gave some clarity.I used to never exercise etc. I actually only started running because I was so convince my ex didn't find me attractive, so I thought if I became fitter she'd like me more. I now run for better reasons!

    Had an interesting/worrying development re. the office colleague. When I first was talking with her, colleagues warned me that she some sort of 'femme fatale'. I had no reason to believe that at all, from what I knew/saw of her, she was more or less perfect to me. Turns out she recently asked my best friend (who is married with children!) out to see go out for a movie on Saturday night! He obviously isn't going and is not talking to her any more, but I feel completely confused about her now. Perhaps it was all smoke and mirrors? I may be seeing this all in the wrong way.

    I feel particularly stupid right now because only last night after my gig, I dropped a letter in her letter box just saying that I'm worried about her, as I haven't seen her since last week, and hope she's okay. I feel a bit stupid now for doing that.

    Not going to think about that stuff for now... it's kind of a side-issue that I don't need.

    Today I'm just focusing on work, later having lunch with some old friends today- that'll be nice. Have another gig this evening, but that should be fun.

    HAHA - those Doritos are a hit! Last night after my gig I enjoyed a MASSIVE bowl of hot chips. It was just what I needed :-)

    Aaron

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  5. Aaronsis
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    17 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hi Aaron

    It is so good to have a laugh and if you can't laugh at yourself from time to time you go..well loopy! This experience is draining for you but I am so happy to hear that you are seeing it as a blip as you are right, in the scheme of things and how long you have been on this earth and how long you have left, it is a blip, but none the less it is a process and it is painful.

    Nevermind about the writing bit you got to do some exercise and go for a run, wow, 8.5km's..I would need an ambulance! I am sooooo proud of you, I actually smiled when you said you run for other reasons now..YAY for you Aaron, this is awesome. People will love you for you, big, small, hairy, quirky..whatever and if they don't that is cool, they are not your person. I am so happy for you, your mindset is sure changing.

    I just wanted to say about the interesting development with your work friend....office gossip can be so hurtful and so untrue, she may indeed be a "femme fatal" but she may very well not be. Your concern for her wellbeing is a credit to you and you must not feel silly for acting as your heart directs you. What you did was so very caring and nice and whether she is or she isn't does not change the fact she may be off work due to mental health but you have thought about her and written a note. You have acted in line with your integrity and that says so much about you. I would not get caught up in office semantics....they are usually wrong and fueled by people with other agendas. I agree tho, put that over to one side now and look after you.

    Great you are having some lunch with some friends, that is always good and so nice you are reconnecting with people who you may not have seen for awhile, good one!

    In other news those doritos are bad news and I could possibly be addicted..lol...yum..hot chips..I could kill a bowl of them now...with gravy...ohhhhh...makes me feel happy just thinking about it, so glad you enjoyed them!

    Great, now I have hot chips on the brain!

    Chat soon

    S

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  6. rhinoceros
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    17 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    Being able to laugh at yourself is so important! I'd really hate to be one of those people who take themselves too seriously. I think a sense of humour really helps in gaining a healthy sense of perspective of things.

    I felt positively knackered after that run! That said, it was really good to get all that fresh air. This must be what dogs feel like when they are sticking their heads out of the car window. I was convinced for so long that I must be super unattractive looking, that would explain why my ex didn't really want to be intimate with me. To try and remedy that situation I tried to get fit. Now I like running and exercise because it is good for my mental health and general well-being.

    Office gossip is THE WORST. I hate it! I really try and stay out of that. Their comments I really didn't put any weight to. I have never at any point saw anything about her that suggested she's a femme fatale or anything remotely like that. If anything she was so open, warm and sincere. That's what drew me to her. I was (and am) very concerned that's she's been away from work so long.

    I was going to contact her sooner, but I didn't think she'd want to hear from me. Last night I thought I should just write her a letter and put it in the letterbox, she should know at least that I care and am worried for her. Whether things change with her or not isn't really relevant to anything at this stage. I do feel sad that things have turned out the way they have, but again, it's not really something I can control. I just have to accept it for now.

    Just back from lunch with some friends. We call ourselves 'Schnitzel Club'. Our main activity is going out for lunch and eating... you guessed it... Schnitzel! They're really nice people from a previous workplace. Really genuine, sincere friends. I'm lucky to have them.

    Those doritos sound dangerous! Tonight I have to some groceries, will try and get a packet as I'm curious to try them!

    I was playing at the Casino with the Big Band last night - there's a restaurant in there that do some really nice chips. They were just what I needed at the end of a very long day :-).

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  7. Aaronsis
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    17 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hi A

    I hear you loud and clear, I am literally the class clown and it is what usually gets me through the day, you just have to laugh. You are very funny too and I did visualize the dog hanging out the window, with their mouth all full of air and flapping..hilarious!

    That really makes me feel sad though that you felt you were that unattractive that you resorted to trying to change so much so your partner would want to be intimate with you, that must have been so hard for you and I cant even begin to imagine how much anxiety that comes with, that is really tough. I know this experience with your work friend has left you feeling confused and struggling with how it has all turned out, but there is that one thing that I hope you can see is that women do find you attractive, you are able to relate and clearly there was something between you. Not great timing but it happened and you were/are of interest to her.

    Yes office gossip, the root of all evil...and it can be really damaging too which is not fair and not nice, I really try to stay clear of all of that mess too. Just takes unnecessary energy out of you. Like I said before too, it mostly isn't even true!

    I want to join the "Schnitzel Club"..yum..apart from parmas is there anything better than schnitzel...and even better that you can eat it with some awesome people, sounds like you had a great lunch break.

    That is so funny that you are going to try the doritos, be warned they are totally addictive and I will not be able to help you through that as I am in need of help there too...lol

    Ohh at the Casino that is really cool, it sounds like it was a great night. My son plays drums, saxaphone and bass guitar so there is alot of music in our house too, he would love to see something like that....I should think about taking him to something. But yes..those chips would have been the perfect end to a great night....yum.

    I am thinking about some lamb cutlets for dinner, I have a lazy $500 to spend on meat...lol..but they too are super yummy.

    Are you playing at the Casino next month here in Melbourne? That would be something, they have so many really cool things on and the place is huge! What an experience!

    S

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  8. rhinoceros
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    17 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    I'm a bit of a clown at times too - it's really what keeps me sane. My day job gets hard at times, being able to laugh things off really helps! I really did feel like a dog in a car when I was running... I probably accidentally ate a coupe of bugs flying in the air too!!

    It was/is a really bad situation. I was trying to make sense of why she had no interest in me in a romantic way. To try and help this situation, I'd do things for her, buy things, basically give as much as I could. That partially created that carer/patient relationship. In the meantime I was convinced that there was physically something abnormal or wrong about me. In regards to the anxiety and depressed feelings I had, I thought that was a malfunction of sorts too... I thought I had some sort of OCD problem or something. My ex would always brush off my concerns or attempt to talk about things by telling me that I was just being silly, or it's because I didn't have enough sleep , or was being unreasonable or neurotic. I just believed her. Why wouldn't I? I placed her on a pedestal and thought the world of her... everything she said I'd believe.

    I'm starting to realise I didn't really have to worry about any of those things. That said there's a lot of baggage there still but I'm sure with time it'll get better.

    The Schnitzel Club is great! Was quite a big lunch compared to what I usually have, so I did feel rather sleepy afterwards. Good food and good company, it's hard to beat that combination :-)

    Your son is very talented! I've always wanted to learn saxophone - I actually play trombone and piano accordion as well as guitar, but have spent a long time listening to saxophone players. I'm sure there's lots of good music where you are! Here in Hobart there isn't heaps, but I'm lucky to get as much work as I get. When I go to play in Melbourne, I'll probably check the casino out while I'm there.

    $500 on meat?! that's a budget and a half! Lamb cutlets are delicious. I'll probably skip dinner after the huge lunch. That said I have a pack of Oreos in the car, I might devour them later on haha!

    I'm looking forward to seeing Melbourne, it's been about 10 years since I last was there. I'm nervous about driving in the city but I'm sure I'll be okay... just gotta learn about those hook turns!

    Aaron

     

     

  9. Aaronsis
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    18 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Happy Friday Aaron

    Hearing you talk about your relationship and all the things you have gone through, being the carer, addressing all the things you used to do for her, buying her things, busting your guts to be fitter in order to be more attractive, then on top of that the fact you could not talk to her about these things and getting brushed off and made to feel like you were abnormal or that there was something physically wrong with you..it makes me realize how far you have come...can you see it too?

    You have been able to pull out all the really hurtful and hard stuff and put it here and address it and you know what, that is never going to happen to you again as you will not let it, you are so very aware of who you are and what you want now and that is so very powerful. I feel so excited for you that you have really been on a massive self discovery tour and are coming out the other side knowing so much about yourself, what you want, what you don't want...I am so very proud of you. I was so happy to read that you feel like you dont have to worry about alot of these things anymore, how refreshing for you.

    I think you will be so surprised when you come to Melbourne to see that guess what...alot of the hook turns dont exsist anymore!!! Yay i hear you say...it is so much better and alot less stressful too...

    My son is pretty talented and I feel very proud of him and his ability to play musically instruments, it is so very clever and makes people so happy, you are doing that too....we do have so many good venues and clubs that we can see live music here and it really is a great place to live, I love Melbourne, although there are many beautiful places all over Australia, we are so very lucky to live in such a great country.

    Hope those oreos were yummy....I mean really..as if they weren't Sarah!!!!

    Hope you have some fun and happy stuff planned for the weekend and take some time for you....

    Did I mention it is Friday....yay!

    S

  10. rhinoceros
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    18 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    Having a really hard time fighting that carer's instinct....

    I just spoke to my ex - I've been checking in on to make sure she's okay (again that's that carer instinct coming out again). Today she has an RDO. She has spent most of the day in bed, hasn't been eating properly - basically living on baked beans or instant noodles. I've suggested to her already that there's free telephone counselling services that could be of help ... she has no interest in that. I guess I'm frustrated because I can't make her help herself.

    I feel absolutely sick inside with guilt and worry. :-(

  11. Aaronsis
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    18 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hey Aaron

    You are such a caring and warm man and your want to help your ex really is outstanding and such a strong character in you.

    One of life's biggest frustrations "how can I help someone who doesn't want to help themselves?" it is traumatic for you to hear about her pain and I know you will be feeling responsible for that, but you really cant make her. You have provided her all the tools and given her every bit of support in you and if she wont take that there is actually nothing you can do to make her. That is a really lousy answer I know but that was my frustration too with my brother and I am still learning how to get over the part of "why did he not reach out"...I think he didn't want to..I am by no means suggesting your ex is suicidal but she is showing signs of depression, and you have been very active in supplying her with ways in which she can reach out, as you have and support herself....

    Let's look at the alternative, you go back to her out of guilt so as she feels better, now essentially you have transferred all this pain and mess onto you. You are then back in that relationship out of guilt and not love and how do you go through with that. There is no pleasure for you and to be honest ..none for her.

    You really can only lead a horse to water Aaron, please try to be kind to yourself, you really have done everything right and I am just wish I could do something for you.

    S

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  12. rhinoceros
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    21 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah - hope you had a nice weekend.

    I caught up with my ex, both Saturday and Sunday. She was doing much better than she was on Friday. She really had me worried. I suspect she has depression, and I also strongly suspect she's had it for most of the time we've been together. She's very much against using counselling, psychologists and medication. I can appreciate people being apprehensive about medication, but counselling is something that's so effective and helpful. Personally, it's been hugely valuable for me... but as we say, you can lead a horse to water...

    Right now we're just being friends really... I'm happy with that dynamic. I feel that probably what we just should've been all along. I'm appreciating having time and freedom to do the things I enjoy. For years the only time I'd even touch a guitar was when I had to go out and perform. Rarely did I play it at home, I basically never practised. Last night I did some songwriting and recording - things I never ordinarily would have had the time to do.

    My work colleague friend (who may hate me?) is back today. I have to admit just seeing her was very painful. Today has been a bit of a struggle, but that's life I guess. She has been messaging my best friend a lot, almost constantly. Asking about me at times, also being quite flirty with him. He's a chronic flirt himself (he has a wife and two kids... let's not go there). His wife found out about him messaging her, and he's in big trouble. He's shut down all his social media accounts... probably a good idea for his own sake...

    This sounds wrong, but I almost feel like I'm dealing with two break-ups at once. I fell in love with that office by accident and it all went wrong.

    Sometimes I stop and think and really struggle to understand how I get into the situations that I get into...

    It's a beautiful day in Hobart today, I'm going to go for a big run after work and get all this nervous/anxious energy out.

  13. Aaronsis
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    21 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hey Aaron

    Happy Monday...I think!..lol

    I am so pleased to hear that your ex is doing better and that you were able to spend some time with her over the weekend and that you felt like friends, that is a really nice place to be. Hopefully you didn't feel pressure or stress.

    Great to hear you are starting to give yourself time to do what you love and practice your music and get into that space that makes you feel happy, that is so wonderful. So between your music and your running you have got some good things in place to keep a nice check on how you are feeling and doing some great things for you and that is really awesome.

    I hear you when you say you are like breaking up with two people, it really is like that for you and you have been hit with this twice. That is not great to hear that your married colleague has found himself in a predicament..but shutting down his social media accounts sounds like a good start. I hope he and his wife can get through this time. The girl with whom you had feelings for sounds like she is struggling with some things too and maybe some low self esteem and self validation. I hope she is ok too, not fun to be trying to find out who you are and wanting things you can't have, I hope she has people to talk to also.

    Glad you have some sun out today and that it is a beautiful day. It is supposed to be nice here but kind of a bit overcast and not really that flash...the week is due to get better tho with a 30 degree day I think...heatwave!

    Sarah

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  14. rhinoceros
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    21 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Happy Monday indeed! Well as happy as a Monday can be anyway!

    I too am glad she's doing better. There's still a bit of pressure there. I'm trying my best to not fall in the trap of people pleasing and just going along with what is expected or wanted of me. Not easy but just doing what I can, and trying to do the right thing by her too. The dynamic is still very much that carer/patient scenario even now.

    I just had an awkward encounter with my work colleague friend. It was one of those situations where I had no idea what to say or how to say it. I fear I came across sounding cold or not caring enough... I really don't know. After something like that I think it's pretty normal to second guess every detail of what or wasn't said... I'm a bit shaken up by that. She sounded very upset. I hate how I've hurt her so. I wish I could take it all back.

    This probably makes no sense but I feel like my chest is burning up from the inside out... I feel so awful that I've cause so much hurt. It was never my intention...

    I am considering sending her an email or something just to check in/apologies for how awkward I was earlier... not sure if it's a good idea.

    I went for a walk at lunchtime , it's really nice outside. It's a shame I couldn't spend more time in the outdoors.
    Back in the office now - looking forward to getting outside again later today :-)

    Aaron

  15. Aaronsis
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    21 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    I am so sorry you have just had an awkward encounter, I think it is always weird when we bump into people we have had/have feelings for and don't currently know where we stand or what the situation is.

    I am hopeful tho that she can see you are getting through a breakup and I am sure she will be understanding that sometimes your encounters will be warm, some will weird and some good, but please try not to take on too much of the emotional baggage with it, she is also responsible for her feelings and actions and you technically have not hurt her, you were not available at that time when you made a connection and she did know this.

    The fact you are single now is a side issue, she needs to accept that you are still healing and that you are not just available to jump out of one relationship into another. Please try to be kind to you in that she really did push you and she has to take some responsibility for the "rejection" for want of a better word as she knew you were not available. The way she handled it with the expectation you would run to her for either support or who knows what is on her, not on you, you are not responsible for her behavior, just yours, and you acted with true integrity and morals and you should feel proud.

    I would tend not to keep contacting her, although you do what sits best with you, if you think you will feel better by acknowledging the awkwardness then you should do that, this is all about making peace for you.

    The sun is out here now so I too should get out there tonight and do some exercise...hmmmm...good in theory!

    Enjoy your run tonight, hope it makes you feel good.

    Sarah

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  16. rhinoceros
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    22 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    These things happen - an office is only so big after all. We both startled each other which didn't help things. If I was a puffer fish I would've puffed right out! We both don't know where we stand or anything. Technically speaking am single, but not in the sense that I'd be willing to meet anyone new or even have completely severed ties with my ex - it's all up in the air, as these things often are for a while after.

    I'm sure things will get a bit less strange as time passes. Well I sure hope so anyway, because today was not good! I find it so hard to not take on the baggage, it's just what I do... not a good thing really. You are right ,she was really pushy and frankly quite harsh to me before. It's not a way I'd ever treat someone in that position... I'm doing my best to do the right thing by everyone- perhaps at times at my own expense, but I don't know any other way to do things. There are times where you can't please everyone , that was one of those times.

    She actually contacted me a few minutes ago.. saying that I seem like a ghost to her now. I didn't really get into that too much other than saying I'm sorry she feels that way, and it's good to see her back at work again. I need space from her. If she wants to talk to me , that's okay- but I'm not going to initiate anything, it's not a good time for that at all!

    Exercise is good in theory! It's funny - a lot of people going about the 'endorphins' etc. from exercise. I don't really notice that so much, but I do get quite cranky if I've done a big run. Maybe it's a case of being 'hangry' or something? I don't know! Maybe I'm just a cranky person.

    I lent her several things, she's returned them with a letter, saying she deserves an explanation for what things are how they are. I'm really not sure what to say to that. I've really only just broken up with my ex, I don't fully understand what she expects from me? I feel absolutely horrible.

    I feel like the air needs to be cleared at some point but I have no idea how to go about that. I don't feel strong enough to have that kind of conversation, certainly not after when she was angry at me before. It kind of scared me away. The sad thing is I that actually still have really strong feelings for her.

    I don't mean to sound sorry for myself or weak, but today I just wish I could be left alone by both my ex and this work colleague. They both mean well but I feel like I'm being pulled to pieces by them.

    Sometimes it all gets too much.

    Aaron

  17. Aaronsis
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    22 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hi Aaron

    I am so sorry to hear that this whole work situation is causing you anxiety and stress, you really are in a tough situation with trying to heal from your breakup as well as managing this girl at work. You are most certainly not feeling sorry for yourself, this is all alot, and it is very overwhelming.

    I agree with you in that the air does need to be cleared and you need to have a conversation with her, maybe not right now but I feel like perhaps she has feelings for you too and maybe just what you said in your message to me is perfect to say to her... "I've really only just broken up with my ex, I don't fully understand what she expects from me? I feel absolutely horrible". I think that is perfect and outlines exactly that you are healing, you are not ready for anything else, you do have some feelings for her but don't want to lead her on or hurt her..or you!

    I think her letter and her returning things is her way to catch your attention and she most certainly has done that, I think she is perhaps a little confused too and may herself not know exactly how to communicate with you or how to let you know she has some feelings for you...but now is not the time!

    I hear you loud and clear my friend and really feel how much this is hurting you and I am so sorry. You are an amazing human and you are doing so very well, even though at times it does not feel like it.

    I think you might be right with the hangry thing...and that totally makes sense, you have just done a huge amount of exercise and need some refueling...you do not seem to me to be a cranky person at all..I know with my daughter she starts to get short and snappy and I think..hmm..you need to eat something..then she is fine..it is a thing tho!

    Hope today is brighter and that you can get some sunshine into you.

    Chat soon

    Sarah

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  18. rhinoceros
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    148 posts
    22 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Thank you Sarah for your lovely reply

    It's overwhelming. The breakup is horrible - that said I'm really glad we still talk and get along well. I have to try and be assertive and make sure I establish boundaries to not give the wrong idea. That's easier said than done, but I'm trying to do that. Having the work colleague debarkle happening at the same time is really difficult.

    My work friend definitely has feelings for me, she's told me that. I have for her too, she knows that. She is putting a lot pressure on me. Personally I'd never pressure someone that I had feelings for when they've just broken up from a long term relationship with someone else. But that's me - I guess we are all different in that regard. That said, I understand her frustration too.

    She's certainly confused and hurting. I really hate that I've caused that. I also see that how my ex is hurting. In hindsight I shouldn't have been weak and developed feelings for someone else, I shouldn't have let myself get in that situation. At the time I was so lonely, and for the last couple years at least had been lonely, basically being a carer in a relationship where nothing I did was really gratified. It's no excuse though.

    I want to clear the air with my office friend but it's definitely not the time. I don't even know what to say or how to say it just yet...

    Speaking of being hangry... I have a stash of sweet bisuits in my desk at work. It's basically a pantry!!
    Yesterday was a hard day, but I did go for a run outside, there's a nice water reservoir reserve that you can run around, usually there's little wallabies etc. hanging around too. They're like the the support team as you're running! I did just under 10kms yesterday, all that anxiety and nervous energy was like rocket fuel.

    I went for a nice walk at lunch time, it's warm and sunny today.

    Tonight I'm catching up with my best friend - that will be a good distraction from everything else that's going on :-).

    Hope your day has been going well Sarah :-)

    Aaron

  19. Aaronsis
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    23 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Good Morning Aaron

    So sorry for the tardy reply today..

    I hope that you had a fantastic evening catching up with your best friend, I am sure that you got to chat some things out with them too and get some support face to face.

    You sound like you have an awesome office location that you can get out at lunch time and get some fresh air and a stunning scenery at the reservoir, that is great, just what you need really.

    It is great that you are still talking with your ex and that you can keep it "pleasant" as you are both good people, just this relationship has expired and that is totally fine. You are doing so well and also seeing you are doing this whole double break up thing too, you are going through so very very much and I am so proud of how you are coping. Relationship break ups are so very bloody hard and some days feel like "yay I am over this" to be followed the next day with total devastation....there are no rules and unfortunately like we have said before, no manual to this.

    You are doing every thing so very right to make the best outcome for yourself and I hope you can see how strong you are. I just wanted to say though to your comment about being "I shouldn't have been weak and developed feelings for her"...you were feeling so very lonely and you made a connection with someone who showed you some care and comfort. I don't think we chose to have feelings...feelings occur when something resonates with us, good or bad and I am not entirely sure that we chose them. You most certainly would not have chosen to develop feelings for someone else, you made a connection, feelings happened.

    I am sure that the nervous energy was like a huge hit of adrenaline and that you were running like Forest Gump...good to get it out tho!

    Hope so very much today is going well

    Sarah

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  20. rhinoceros
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    148 posts
    25 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    I'm the one who should be apologising for the tardy reply! I'm sorry- I've been sick with a nasty cold. It hit me suddenly. What started as a little tickle in the back of my throat turned into a fever in the space of hours. I'm back at work today, not 100% but feeling okay. I think all the pressure and stress I've been under lately has taken its toll and probably contributed to me getting sick. Also, probably have been doing a bit too much running!

    Tonight my plan is to have a good rest - maybe take car for spin but nothing more than that!
    Seeing my ex tomorrow - but hoping to keep the visit on the shorter side as I'm finding it a bit draining. That probably sounds unkind - I still care about her deeply, but there's only so much talking over things one can do. You can't erase the past by talking it over a hundred times.

    You're so right regarding break-ups - some days I feel okay, others I feel dreadful. Today I'm somewhere between okay and dreadful haha!

    Still worried too about office girl - that's playing on my mind as well. I know I need to clear the air with her at some point but it's a tricky one, in that I'm still not even sure what to say. I don't like having matters unresolved if I can help it... but at the same time, it's pretty hard to state how you feel/what you want/etc. when you still have no idea at all! It's tricky when you have so much you want to say to someone but don't really have the means to say it.

    That's very kind of you regarding me developing feelings for someone else-I don't feel good about it, but I was never my intention for that to happen. Office girl never meant for that to happen either. She was just being a good friend to me.

    Today I'm drinking lots of hot drinks to keep this sore throat happy... I have some cough syrup that seems to be helping as well. Hard to talk on the phone when you are constantly feeling as if you're about to have a coughing fit!

    Hope you're having a good day :-)

    Aaron

  21. Aaronsis
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    28 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hi Aaron

    So so sorry for another late reply, busy weekend with the kids and playing mum.

    Hope you are feeling better after your cold, you are probably right, you have been through alot lately and it really does impact your health and your general wellbeing, I hope you are feeling better today.

    How did you go over the weekend with seeing your ex? Hope that is wasn't too draining on you as you mentioned it was starting to become that way, and that you were able to keep the visit short. It is good that you are keeping a check on her but agree, as time goes on the space will become more necessary. It is so true too what you said about talking over and over and going around and around in circles to come back to the same point. It is so very exhausting and absolutely keeps dragging it all up again for no benefit really.

    Glad to hear that the air is somewhat clearer with office girl, and hopefully she can see she was probably a little to anxious with you and a bit too excited at your new found single life but didn't really consider your healing. I hear what you are saying about having unresolved issues, it is weight on your shoulders and worry that you don't need, even though you do feel like you want to have a big chat to her and yet can't decide what it is you want to say, frustrating, yet I am sure in time and when you are feeling stronger you will find the words that you want to say and may even be able to identify how you are feeling about her. You may decide that a friendship is all it will be and that is fine.

    Hope you have been well enough to pull the running shoes back on and hit the pavement, I wish I could run, guess I should just start really...that would help!

    Hope your Monday was good.

    Chat very soon

    Sarah

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  22. rhinoceros
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    148 posts
    29 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    No need to apologise! Being a mum is a full time job! As someone with no kids, I am always astonished at how people with kids manage to juggle everything.

    I'm on the mend- but what I thought was a cold quickly turned to Bronchitis. Right now I have a very husky deep voice. My work colleagues joke that I sound like Barry White. It's made work tricky being on the phone etc. but I'm glad that I'm feeling well enough to be at work in any case.

    Seeing ex on the weekend was okay- I was very sick still so I didn't stay too long. It was good to keep it short. She means well. Right now I'm content with just being friends. We haven't had the discussion as such as to where things are going, but I'm thinking after my trip to Melbourne breaking that to her. She'll obviously be upset etc. but for once I need to do what's right for me. I don't want to be with someone just because I feel obligated or sorry for them. That's less than what she deserves.

    Regarding office girl - I'm still a bit of a mess, but I had a great chat with my counsellor yesterday that cleared things up a bit. He said I'm infatuated with her. He couldn't be more right! I feel awful that I've hurt her. At the same time I'm angry that she put so much pressure on me only a few days after breaking up with my ex. I wouldn't dream of doing that to someone. I would love to be friends with her again, and just see where that goes. Once I've got myself together a bit more I can hopefully untangle that mess. I really miss her!

    Trying to be positive for now- I've actually made a new friend at work - I'm taking her out for a coffee tomorrow. It's not a romantic thing at all. She sent me a nice message a week or two ago, saying I looked tired/bothered and that if I'm going through a rough patch and want to grab a coffee, she's there. Very kind of her, she doesn't even know me. It's just nice to know there's genuinely good people out there. (such as you as well Sarah!!!)

    I'm looking forward to running again - hopefully when this nasty chest infection goes away. Today I'll still head out for a walk at lunch, even if it's a slow walk :-)

    Hope your Tuesday has been treating you well!

    Aaron

  23. Aaronsis
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    29 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hi Aaron

    Thanks for understanding and yes, parenting is pretty much a juggling act..lol...you would never swap it for the world but it is a massive learning curve. You will be there one day!

    Glad you are feeling better Barry White..lol...I bet you get lots of comments on the phone..lol..but seriously, Bronchitis is not pleasant.

    I think your counsellor has nailed it and there is a bit of an infatuation with office girl, and let's face it, she is the first person who has made you aware of you and your feelings and that there were deficiencies in your relationship. I totally get the confusion between anger and feeling like you have hurt her, you care alot about her and you don't want her angry or hurting either, and she is probably feeling the same and so I really think at some point in the future you both will be able to talk this through when you are both in a better head space and perhaps you are further along in your healing.

    That is so lovely that you were asked for a coffee out of genuine wellbeing, there are awesome people out there in the world and that is the sort of act that gives you back faith in people and that there are people who care, thank you for your kind words, I really do care about everyone I chat to on here, including you, having support and comfort at a time in your life when you are so desperate is so wonderful and people were there for me when I reached out and now I would like to be there to help others. I hope you had a wonderful coffee and had a great chat getting to know your new friend, that is so great.

    Getting back into running will be great and there are some awesome running tracks in Melbourne that you can discover when you are here. Hopefully you will get some beautiful weather and you can go by the Yarra River and Albert Park, there are some beautiful spots.

    My Tuesday was pretty good indeed, hope you are good too Aaron and so proud of how far you have come.

    Chat soon

    Sarah

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  24. rhinoceros
    rhinoceros avatar
    148 posts
    30 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah

    My best friend -he's a new(ish) dad, they've only just had their second baby. The eldest is 3. I'm always staggered by the amount of energy him and his wife have, not to mention the kids! It makes me appreciate how much my parents went through with me.

    I'm still sounding like Barry White today. Was singing along in the car to Johnny Cash. I can hit all the low notes at the moment. Best to enjoy that while I can haha!

    You're so right regarding office girl. It really was/is an infatuation. The contrast between how she treated me vs. how my ex treated me for most of the last 3 years couldn't have been greater. It was a very lonely miserable time. There were nice moments, but they were fleeting and usually few and far between. It wouldn't take much for me to fall head over heels with someone else in the context of that. Office girl had some bad relationships that sounded eerily similar to mine, so I can see where she's coming from too. I hate the fact I've hurt her, and I'd love to clear the air, but with what? more confused air? that's not really helpful! I went to go to the tea room to get a coffee, she was there, I did a 180 and came back later. Just not ready to deal with that yet, I don't think she is either.

    I just got back from having coffee with that nice friend at work. It was really good to properly talk to her. I could finally personally thank you for the lovely message she sent me a while ago. It has put me in a good mood - most of the last week I've felt really not that great, particularly at work. Having to avoid office-girl has been awful. That whole sad/unsettled feeling is really horrible. It's nice to feel a bit happier.

    I'll check out those places in Melbourne! That sounds great - I would love to do some running there. Hopefully by the time I get there my Barry White phase will have passed and I'll be well enough to run again. I can't wait to get there- there's so many great guitar shops in Melbourne, I will be sure to check some of them out as well.

    Your help has been so valuable and really means a lot. It's been a rough trot, but it's been no where near as rough as it would've been without your help. I don't feel like I've come far, but at the same time I realise the future looks so much brighter now than it did a year ago for example. I know I've done the right thing. You shouldn't look back on relationship and think "that was mostly a sad time". Glad to have that mostly behind me now.

    Got a meeting to go to now - ugh!

    Aaron

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  25. Aaronsis
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    31 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hey Aaron

    Happy Thursday..the weekend is in sight....yay!

    Wow, a 3 year old and a new born, I remember those days and yes, crazy, fun but totally crazy...lol..you will find out about that one day!

    That is hilarious about your singing like Barry White and rocking it with your deep voice...I must admit I have been known to sign a few Deborah Harry songs when I have been sick too...lol....hilarious!

    I was soooooo happy to read that the coffee with your new friend went well and that you were able to feel some support and have a great chat, but mostly that it put you in a good mood, that is awesome..especially seeing that office girl is still causing some anxiety for you, as you said and know it will take some time and who knows what will happen in the future, I feel like it will be something like banging into each other in the kitchen and you both sort of go "hey, this is crazy, lets chat"...and you can put the past behind you both but acknowledge what it was, with calm.

    There are sooo many great things about Melbourne, the music shops, the restaurants, the running tracks, the city at night, make sure you check out Crown and Southbank at night, it is amazing.....you will see that perhaps a week is not long enough..lol..not sure where you will get to play with your jazz band but if you are at Hamer Hall or the Arts Centre that would be awesome!

    Aaron..it has been my absolute pleasure to help you through this time, I feel like I have been able to share some of my experience being an oldie and it has helped you and that is awesome..you are so very very welcome and I have said it before..but you really have come alot further than you think....you most certainly have done the right thing and it may not be til a future relationship that you realize how much of the right thing it was to leave that first relationship in the past. You may care and chat to your ex forever, and that is fine, but there will be boundaries.

    Have a great day, hot 35 in Melbourne today.....stinker....but makes me happy!

    Chat soon

    Sarah

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  26. Aaronsis
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    31 October 2019

    ..ohh and do you know how proud I am to see you now reaching out and supporting others and answering posts...you are amazing Aaron and your strength, your story and your advice will go on to help another human...how friggin awesome!!!

    Yay for you!!!!!!

  27. rhinoceros
    rhinoceros avatar
    148 posts
    31 October 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah!

    Yes- the weekend isn't too far away now! I'm leaving for Melbourne tomorrow morning .Driving up to Devonport to take the ferry over. It's going to be a fun adventure. It's 30 degrees today in Hobart, I think it's 30 tomorrow as well. I'll be ever so grateful for the air-con in the car for that long drive.

    The sound of my voice right now is hilarious. It's a cross between Barry White and a pack-a-day smoker. It's frustrating, but seeing the funny side of it helps :-).

    That coffee/chat yesterday was great. It gave me a much needed bit of perspective. I'm so sick of carrying this emotional baggage from my ex and from office girl all the time . It's not like I have to carry that baggage but I can't help it. Having that nice chat was like a breath of fresh air - much needed and I'm so thankful for it.

    I really hope things with office-girl become a bit less awkward - I'm sure it will with time. We got along so well, it would be such a shame to not be friends.I'm trying not to beat myself up too much about the hurt I never meant to cause, but that's easier said than done. It would be nice to have that moment where we both stop being silly and move on.

    I will try and check out as many of those places as possible! I intend to start gigging in Melbourne on a more regular basis - it would be great to go there every 3-4 months or so. Hopefully I'll get to see lots of the sights there in the near future. Unfortunately I'm not playing anywhere quite that prestigious - I'm in a jazz club in the CBD, only a small venue , fits I think 60 people or so. A couple of the people I'm playing are friends from Hobart that have moved to Melbourne in the last couple years - will be nice to catch up with them.

    Last night I went to a jazz jam session - when I was with my ex it was really difficult to go out and do things like that. She wasn't interested in going out to jazz gigs or anything like that (which is fair enough)- but I was expected to stay with her and do whatever she was doing. I enjoyed that.

    While I feel a bit suffocated by my ex at times, I realise I actually feel less lonely being on my own. I still am happy to be there for her, but I need to be firm about having boundaries. It's amazing how you can be in a relationship, seeing someone every day, but still feel very much alone.It's still an up and down thing, but I know deep down that I've done what's right.

    Hope you've had a wonderful Thursday so far :-)

    Aaron

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  28. Aaronsis
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    31 October 2019 in reply to rhinoceros

    Hey Aarorn

    Safe trip to Melbourne tomorrow, that will be so fun to have a bit of a road trip and then the ferry, really cool, hope the crossing of the Bass Strait is kind to you. I get terrible motion sickness so the thought of a choppy trip sends my anxiety through the roof..lol

    I think it is going to be pretty warm here for the next few days so it will feel like a heat wave for you.

    That is pretty cool that you will get to come more often to Melbourne to do what you love, that will be so good for your mental health, getting away and playing music, you will be in your happy place!

    So I am not sure if we have chatted about how your ex took it when you said that you were coming to Melbourne by yourself. Hopefully she realized that was the case and accepted it?

    I am so looking forward to the weekend, I will be going to "The Sickening Ball", which is a show of RuPaul's drag queens..I am so excited and I can't wait....lol....we are then going to Canberra in Feb to see RuPaul's drag race girls in show.....we love it....lol

    Ok well have an awesome night and a safe trip to Melbourne.

    Chat Soon

    Sarah

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  29. Aaronsis
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    4 November 2019

    Hey Aaron

    Just wanted to stop in and see that you are having a ball in Melbourne and that your gig went well.

    Hope you are feeling happy and have had a chance to experience some great coffee and some of the love of Melbourne.

    Cheers

    Sarah

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  30. rhinoceros
    rhinoceros avatar
    148 posts
    7 November 2019 in reply to Aaronsis

    Hi Sarah - sorry for the delay in replying!

    Am back in Hobart again now.
    Melbourne was GREAT. Really enjoyed it. Driving in the city was scary, we don't really have traffic like that in Hobart! It was nice to be in a different place for a while. In the end I didn't check out any guitar stores - probably a good thing for the bank balance anyway! Did buy some nice new clothes, we don't have DFOs in Tasmania, so it was nice to snag a bargain or two. The gig went well - played to a full house, they seemed to like it. If what I play makes even one person happy, that's good enough for me.

    My ex was okay about me going on my own to Melbourne - I put it in the context of it being primary around me having to perform, that it's almost like a work trip of sorts. At this stage we are still talking often, not really sure where it's going but it doesn't really have to go anywhere either I guess?

    The office girl has deleted me off Facebook and Instagram - I guess she probably doesn't want to see anything of me right now. Still feeling horrible that I've caused her so much pain. If I had any idea things would turn out like this I would have done everything so differently. Trying to not worry too much about that, but it's easier said than done. I hope she's okay.

    Today I had the day off work (lucky me!). After the hustle and bustle of being in Melbourne, seeing a few friends - I did feel quite lonely today. I drove around a lot, not really going anywhere, just cruising around. It takes my mind of things. It's probably a bit of post-holiday blues I guess. It's also been super rainy and miserable outside today, that probably doesn't help. I'm actually looking forward to being at work tomorrow - it will be nice to see my colleagues again.

    How was your weekend Sarah? How did the ball go? That sounds FUN!

    Aaron

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