dear Steve, well I think all of us here on this post all have the same problem, although I've been divorced for 12 years, but during our marriage was completely different than before we got married, and even to consummate our marriage was hard work.

No matter what I did for her either by doing what she wanted, or me buying her a special present, it was always nil, god it was hard work, and up until she divorced me, she slept in another bed, OK I was depressed and drinking, but when in the same bed I gave up, sure we loved each other, and even now I still love her, even though she is shacked up with someone who has all the idiosyncrasies that she always hated in me, I can never work that out. Geoff.

 Well fellas, I have just joined the group and relived to hear other blokes are in the same situation. In my case we don't have any kids and we haven't had sex for the better part of 10 years or so, been married of over 47yrs. So for me there is no light at the end of the tunnel but I still live in hope.  

To all you that are looking for the holy grail , I believe that isn't really there if like my situation it goes beyond this many years, I have try getting help from other areas but it has not changed the wife idea. 

In my case it has been less, just over a year, but the excuse is that it hurts. However she doesn't go to a doctor (IF she is not lying)

Is it age? she is 69, we been together a bit over 10 years. Have made suggestions that she may want me to go elsewhere, usually met with "just try and you will never know what hit you" but do not get an answer now. SO should I? sorely tempted of late...

Thanks Jack

 You make a valid point about the importance of controlling your own actions. For me it's way easier said than done. 

 We had another discussion which turned into yet another argument the other night. The problem is that she doesn't know why I keep bringing it up when she can't do anything about it. And that's entirely the point, even though she "loves me and nothing has changed in that respect" she would rather me leave her if I can't accept that she doesn't want to have sex. This is obviously very concerning for me however much of it is probably her immature attempt to bury the issue. Just like her suggestion previously that perhaps I should find it elsewhere. Now that she sees that I'm not backing down hopefully she will follow through and see a cousellor together.  All she wants me to do it back down and go back under my little rock. 

It still hurts a lot. Knowing that there is a simple solution - and that is giving to your partner. I give my all and what do I get? Nothing....

 so Jack, I understand control but I think we're being had. I'm pretty close to ending it 

Hi Apollo Black,

I have been thinking about your post since you wrote it. Certainly we all have different circumstances and yep, it's easier said then done. I have been trying really hard over Christmas to be a good partner and be true to my self, express my desires. It was going well till I got rejected, for a day or two I couldn't follow my own advice, I was quite upset and it took me a long time to pull my self up. I don't like losing my energy to something that is largely out of my control but it took me a while to get back to that mindset.

I'm not sure about 'being had', I hope not. Of course we have obvious differences in sexual desires to our partners, everyone is different. And obviously it is easier to focus on something you shouldn't do rather than something you can't do. My partner doesn't have my desire for sex, so she doesn't think about it much until I 'hassle' her. Sex is a big issue for most people, I'm not sure that it will ever be a simple solution, it might be simple but it will take some work. It seems men and women think quite differently about sex.

I am sorry you are hurting mate, I am too, it sucks and it's highly frustrating and I understand that you feel like you might need to end your relationship, talk here about it if that helps.

Jack

Hi all,I have read through a lot of the posts and have found lots of feelings thoughts and questions that I can relate to, so thank you to those who are sharing these for discussion. It is slightly comforting to at least know it is not uncommon. Thanks.

I am living a very similar life. I'm married with 3 children, the oldest of which is 7. My wife and I had a really intense start to our relationship that was very loving and very physical. During the pregnancy of our first child our sex life understandably slowed down, however following the birth it became non existent for some time and has never recovered. There are a few reasons for this. My wife suffered with post natal depression following the birth due to some complications during and shortly after, on top of being first time parents. Since then there has been a mixture of feelings of low self esteem, negative body image, pressure, fatigue, medications, and two more children. The oldest is 2. Add to that the fact that a life of work and parenting three young children is tiring.

We have very little sex life, over the last seven years we average 4 or 5 times a year and those are instigated 100% by me, awkward like we have never done it and end up not being that enjoyable for either of us. I can not remember what it is like to have your partner instigate anything even close to it or what truly passionate or exciting times are like.

I have been through a range of feelings from anger and resentment to wondering why my wife is no longer attracted to me or why doesn't she love me enough to do this for me and therefore feeling not good enough.

It is a hard way to live, and everyone needs to find their own way to either deal with it, settle it or fix it (if possible). I am really struggling to find what might work for us, and struggling even more with the fact that another year has just rolled by and its still happening.

We did in recent weeks begin to see a counsellor, to discuss our relationship in general including our sex life. I had tried for some time to get her to agree to this and she took the step to do it with me and I really appreciated that because it showed me some willingness to improve the situation. This seems like it will prove a valuable method of open communication with someone that can help us facilitate that, because it is not easy to have reasonable discussions about it, particularly due to the fact that it usually comes up right after you have gotten yet another knock back.

Hello Husband & Father. I am so sorry to hear that you are struggling with these issues too. I am astonished by the number of people who have commented and shared stories under this thread. I am now beginning to understand that there are a lot of men in the same boat as me. 

I am really glad that your wife has agreed to go to counseling with you. My wife came along to two sessions with my psychologist but wouldn't talk about our sex issues. She felt embarrassed and just fobbed it off. I hope you have success.

I too am a father with young children and know exactly how exhausting it is. For me, having kids is the number one reason why we no longer have a sex life. I also believe it has changed our relationship forever. I can't see us ever being intimate like we used to be.

Hi Steven, I appreciate your thoughts.

The kids play a huge role. My wife now has this different view of herself, that makes her feel like she's a "only a mum". One of the things we have discussed in counselling  is that it seems she has lost part of her identity as a woman and as herself, and that it would be healthy for her and us as a couple if we found some strategies to help her find that person or at least part of it again.

This stage of life has definitely changed us forever also, and to be honest, at this stage I am not sure what success looks like and what I expect it to be. But the first step is both acknowledging that for whatever reason, success is not what we are living at the moment. I don't honestly expect to ever live the rabbit like existence we did when we were younger, and realistically I don't really want to either. I know enough to know that my idea of success is not that, and it is not purely physical.

 The physical side is a major component no doubt, however there are also others. Such as some validation that I am wanted for more than just my ability to pay bills and be a parent, and I believe that whether we like it or not our society has all of us programmed to hold on to some sort of sense of man and woman, husband and wife and what those roles are in an old fashioned sense. I know I want to feel like the man of the house, I want to be respected, admired and wanted and I'm happy to acknowledge that. Even if some of the more leftish equal rights movement think I am being sexist.

The issue for my wife is that she does not feel like a desirable woman, and worse, doesn't think she should feel like that and that those feelings aren't part of her role as mum. Because of that she does not allow herself time to maintain her own sense of identity and self worth and therefore is not as happy as she deserves to be.

We tried to discuss our issues by ourselves, every now and then when we were having a particularly bad time but had very limited success and never really solved anything.

Approaching the counselling with an agreement that it was "safe" and "ok" to say what you really wanted to without fear of reprisal, and just as equally accepting of what you hear will probably be the thing that keeps our family together long term. We leave the sessions quite vulnerable, but have certainly moved forward even if only a little at a time.

Painfully slow progress is still progress, and I force myself to remember that every day.

A few important things that have helped my situation over the last few days...

Communication...with calmness and care for my partner and my self.

Give love without expectation. Love each other first, work on the challenge second.

Persistence...if there is a problem, let's work on it, it won't go away on it's own.

Be thankful...for whatever I have today, take satisfaction in small victories.

Jack

Hi Steve (and the other husbands),

i stumbled across your post and thought that I would also add the perspective of a mother with a young child. You have 3 so I can on,y imagine that your wife's experience is 3 times worse off than mine. Many people have brought in excellent points about body image and so forth, but wha you may not realise (as my husband often doesn't) is that your wife is just emotionally/ physically tapped out by the end of the day. This is nothing against you, but your children drain her to the very last drop. Let me explain.

After having my kid, although it wasn't the worlds worst labour, I am still feeling the effects of it 2 years later. I can't sit for prolonged periods of time as its very painful, I sometimes have issues passing a number 2  (as it hurts but there are no hemiroids), and it often gets so dry down their own its own that I can't even imagine anything being around it. Not to mention the persisten back aces. 

Whilt this is all going on, I have a 2 yr old permanently attaching itself to me all day long wanting cuddles, affection and love. Again, your wife has 3 to deal with. Quite honestly by the end of the day, I just don't want anyone touching me because I've had someone "touching" me all day. And that's when my little me isn't having a mental breakdown over the fact that  their strawberries were cut the wrong way. At the end of a day, all I want is space because I'm tapped out. Maybe this is the same for your wife. It's not I don't love my husband, and I feel guilty all the time that I'm not being what he wants me to be, but there just isn't anything left. The kid sucked it all out of me. 

I don't have any means to fix it. Just offering a perspective. Like you, my husband and I have spent hours fighting, talking and crying over the matter. It has gotten a little better over time, but it isn't (and may never be what it was and he can't keep comparing because our lives were different then). 

Things that have helped me was to find time for me to get back pieces of myself before I became a mum. I liked things like facials and painting my nails and massages. So, every once and a while  hubby takes the toddler and I get a massage. I wear a facial mask and destress while he puts Bub to bed (bath, story and bed). 

Maybe if she found pieces of hereof again, she would be happier. Good luck.

The problem with this forum is that you don't get notified of responses. 

I believe the issue here is that we are all too nice. We've become so nice we've lost our balls and sense of self. Our wives and partners have lost attraction to us. Sex has disappeared and now we are chasing harder for it. We chase so hard it works against  us and our wives run even faster. So we work harder to try and please our wives. No offense but I gave my wife plenty of space but she still denied everything I had done. Don't bother, it's an unconscious loss of attraction and they don't even know they're doing it.

Apparently the solution is to quit chasing the outcome of sex with our wives. Have a break. Reconnect with our male friends and make time for ourselves. Sure contribute to the family if that's something you don't do but somehow I think that's not the problem with all the nice guys here. Forget about her BS problems (she doesn't want you to fix them) and focus on becoming the best person you can be, especially for your kids. Get as fit as all hell and feel great. Take the lead. At the end of the day if your wife doesn't notice the difference and respond accordingly then at least your in a better place to get the hell out of there and find the love you deserve.

Yeah it's all easier said than done.  Everything will take time. My problem is I don't want to deal with the pain of separation and how we will manage shared parenting, but I don't think I have a choice. No matter what I do I don't think it will make a difference - my wife has sailed. I'm sure I'll handle whatever comes my way. At least I realise now that I can't be attached to sex, complain about lack of it or whatever. What I can work on is being comfortable being me, getting fit, being the best dad I can be, and spending time looking out for me and getting my passion for life back. 

So basically exactly what Sparkz and Mr Cool said on page 2 of this thread. 

They've got the right idea. Read "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. 

All too late for my marriage methinks but at the end of the day I'm doing it for me and my son

Hi all,

Thank you all for your input to this thread. Knowing I am not alone is somehow comforting.

I have been living with this same situation for almost 15 years now. This is my first time reaching out as its a subject that is difficult enough to discuss with your partner let alone anyone else. I have repeatedly gone through the confusion, resentment and dashed hopes that is common to our situations.

The term "roller coaster" perfectly describes not only my feelings but also my daily interactions with my wife, I live my life walking on eggshells. I have been clinging to the hope that implementing the strategies and changes mentioned in the thread that there would be light at the end of the tunnel. They seem to work for a short time and then everything goes back to how it was.

There is an unreasonable doggedness about the comments my wife makes whenever we are able to have a discussion. There is no acknowledgement of my efforts to give space, to be less demanding, to do more. I get back, you've become distant, tell me what you really want, and here's the bit that does my head in, she will re hang clothes that I put on the line, stop me from washing up, complain about the smell of the cleaning chemicals when I do the bathrooms and kitchen (the same chemicals she uses???) and so on. I have thrown myself into gardening, and am able to get some respite from tumultuous emotions only to have any attempt to include her shot down repeatedly.

Of late she has taken to calling me ridiculous and bizarre whenever we attempt to talk. This week has brought about an epiphany of sorts. After aggressively pushing my hand away while we slept and her eventually moving to another bed, I awoke thinking this is it I've had enough. A couple of days of pondering and reading and I have decided that I like the idea put forward by Apollo Black 14 Feb. I will be making changes that are going to help me feel better about myself and allow myself to search / prepare for future happiness.

I love my wife with all my soul.

I don't think she shares those feelings.

I think she want's something different but is too cowardly to make the move so she can say "he left me"

Yes I am bitter, yes I am resentful, I am aware that I share in the blame for the situation but don't accept that I am the only one who should work at fixing it.

I will continue to hope for us to become us again but from now on I will prepare to find me.

Thank you all for sharing and please continue. It all helps.

Hey Werris

 You're certainly not alone but damn it's lonely. Funny how you're with your wife but you still feel like that. Do you have children? I think if I didn't have a child my decision making process would be a lot easier, because frankly as my saga drags on I am liking my wife less and less. Please, this is my personal situation so take it with a pinch of salt. I think I've been blind to the criticism and contempt. Oh I fully acknowledge my contribution to the mess, yeah I was probably a passive nice guy, I probably had covert contracts, I didn't like conflict and just wanted a smooth life. So I would withhold the truth and and walk on eggshells. I most likely co-created the situation. But I'm not sure how many changes I can make to myself to fix the fact that my wife is at times emotionally (and physically) abusive and has little respect for my values. 

 Anyway I'm being bitter now, but I'm saving that for this space. To my wife however  I'm going to try and be nothing but myself, try and be honest, tell the truth, continue to work on my health, not whine, and most importantly maintain my integrity and not stoop to her level. But I'm not doing it for her.

Thing is, I haven't had sex for over 10 months, before that maybe 4 times in the last 5 years. It wasn't even at good (I'm not blaming her). So what difference does it make not having it for another 6 months? A year even? So I'm not going to focus on it. I'm going to work on becoming fit as all hell, spend time with friends and reconnecting with my masculinity, start playing music more, start enforcing proper boundaries with my wife to put a stop to her unacceptable behavior and maybe, maybe we might be able to get through this. If not, it's her loss. 

 15 years is a long time to endure this man, a long time. Have you looked up anything by Athol Kay?? The MMSL forum is good value 

Hi Apollo

Paul here....I just wanted to say that you arent being bitter at all. I have re-read your above post twice...there is no bitterness in it..only the truth and kudos to you for having the courage to mention the physical abuse...same here

As for sex...Mother nature made us what we are now...I know I have nothing to apologise for by saying that its been a long time for me as well. Its meant to be a two way street between man & woman....Unfortunately it doesn't turn out that way...

Good post Apollo

Cheers

Paul

Thanks Paul. I thought it would be useful to mention that since my first post there has been many events happening in my situation.

Basically bringing up lack of intimacy in our marriage started a cascade of issues - my wife acted very adversely to it even though I approached things from an intimacy angle over just the sex. She basically used this to bring up everything wrong with our marriage (all my faults) and didn't want to be with me any more. Counseling was pointless as she wasn't engaged, was endlessly angry and convinced I had destroyed our family. Because she doesn't have many friends she friended an old male friend on Facebook. She even met with him but I'll never know what happened. That didn't matter to her even though I found out about it (she tried to hide it) - she wasn't even phased that her actions were weird or damaging, and totally destroyed any trust I had for her. Even her mother didn't think this was a problem. I was the "crazy paranoid freak". All she wanted was me out of the house so she could "get some space". I refused to do this, held my ground and put up with her varying degrees of anger and abuse. I never thought she would be capable of that type of behavior but looking back I think I just chose to ignore previous outbursts, put downs, tantrums, contempt, etc. I ignored the warning signs.

 All this happened in the space of a couple of months (i.e. My first post). Now I'm just waiting to see if things improve or get worse. But I haven't at any stage said that I wasn't committed to reconciling our marriage. I will try, I just need her to try. I'm not making the decision though - if she wants to leave the marriage she needs to make the move and show some accountability. 

I'm bumping this thread. How are all you guys going on out there? Steven, I noticed you started a new thread....

If there's still some interest in this I'll update my story - or just start my own thread

I replied to this thread a bit of over 12 months ago if you want to refer back to it. Similar story to the others.

Since that time nothing has changed, I continue to remain silent on the problem with the view that raising it will only invite complaints about something I doing wrong. Probably either way I'll be making things uncomfortable.

Also since my last post we have thrown a baby into the mix. You would imagine that I now also take a back seat to that as well. I've mentioned similar in another thread about babies etc. and how despite me raising two kids in a previous relationship (as their mother was a lazy drop kick - don't get me started about that one) that I apparently have no idea what to do with a baby and can't do anything right therefore get nearly almost excluded from everything, meaning I have no clue as to what many of the daily routines are.

My lows are now lasting longer than before and are more severe. She doesn't even seem fussed now that I'm visibly down (I know due to a colleague asking about me looking sad one day) and don't make any attempts of any kind of physical contact anymore for fear of rejection kicking me down further.

Hi Apollo

Sorry to butt in...I hope you are well and a new thread on this topic would'nt hurt anyone...My Best...Paul

Hi UpNDown,

Sorry to hear how you are going mate, I know the struggle can be tiring and tedious, I know how you feel.

I think you would most certainly benefit from some time with a counsellor, start sorting out the various aspects of the problem. Do you have a mate or a family member you can talk to about this stuff? It helps me to talk stuff out, gets it off your chest but also you get to hear your self, become the witness self.

In the end I have to be true to my self, I have to make sure I am still doing the other things in my life that are important to me. I ask myself, who am I if my partner is not present? What do I do for my self, that brings me satisfaction and happiness and growth. Then I take small steps to be doing those things, there is the old saying, 'you can't change where you are overnight, but you can change the direction you are heading in, overnight.' Decide that things are looking up, practice focusing on the positive, and you are allowed to calmly point out to your partner that she is not being her self. I go for long periods of 'being quiet' too but I don't think it works well for me, being calm when you speak out is vital though I think. Hang in there mate.

Jack

Sorry to hear that.

Do you have any local support?

Raising issues can be difficult if you are coming from a perceived position that's less important than your partner. Especially if you're getting the " you are the problem" messages.

I found that getting your own act together is really important. Look after yourself first, as you need to be strong in yourself. Healthy lifestyle, exercise and do something to make yourself smile. Watch some comedy, a funny movie, etc.

Then you can start making changes and improving your life in all the other areas. As mentioned by others, It often seems to be a whole lack of attraction thing. Being a better person, not being hurt by the nasty comments (that's a tough one) and taking up activities that you like doing. Sport or social group, mates, join a club. Don't be mean but certainly don't be the nice guy, men should be men. I had a women talk to me about that recently, she was in her late 50's and she wanted a man that was a man, did manly stuff and wasn't a wimp.

I think we try to help too much and become a "friend". Instead of showing leadership and being in charge. It can be difficult to start as you may already be framed as weak in her mind, but it can change, just won't happen overnight,

In the face of negative comments, you could just smile, shake your head "say don't talk to me like that" and walk away. Scary at first, but you'll get a huge power rush, and it will help your confidence.

Hi Mr Cool

Welcome to the forums

I agree with what your female friend said 'about wanting a man to be a man'...It sounds great in theory but in practice I think it might be a stretch.

To quote a guy that speaks his mind...Clint Eastwood..."Marriage is meant to be made in heaven.......so is thunder and lightening"

Paul

Hi guys. At the risk of having my head bitten off. Can I put my two cents worth in. Toowoomba mentioned that his wife complained of pain when they tried to make love. He also said she refused to seek medical help. I'm 65 and have been celibate for years due to physical pain. At the insistence of my ex I managed to get a specialists appointment. It took nearly 3 months to get said appointment. The specialist (a female) tried to examine me, the pain was so intense she had to stop. She did give an explanation as to the pain. My ex was not satisfied and demanded I get a second opinion. I was able after a further 3 months to see another specialist (male), he tried to examine me, again intense physical pain. Second opinion, similar to first. It took me a long time to build up the courage to get to the specialist as I was embarrassed to admit to needing this help. Anything to do with the physical side of marriage can be extremely embarrassing to a woman. After childbirth it can take a long time for women to internally heal. If a woman believes her hubby loves her regardless, she will respond to touch, kiss etc. If she feels he is wanting something she is unable to provide because of fear of pain, she freezes, possibly because she fears he isn't prepared to listen to her fear of the pain. To most men sex is a physical act, first, to a woman it's emotional, plus physical, but with the emphasis of the emotion. Women are emotional people, men are inclined to be physical first. I'm not knocking men, please believe me, I get on really well with men. There is a dvd called 'How to laugh your way to a happy marriage' by Mark Gungor. Try and download this or get a copy. This dvd covers almost all aspects of marriage including the sexual side. This dvd was recommended to me by a counsellor, so I know how beneficial it can be. I've seen it and enjoyed and learnt from it.

Lynda

I don't think anyone is going to bite your head off Lynda. I think we all know you are a valued entity in the sphere and draw much respect for the support you provide.

it doesn't mean you're entirely correct however.

i think there's two sides to it. There's a difference when there is a physical vs emotional problem. Medical problems need medical intervention - more lube, hormones, investigations, intervention. If there is a genuine medical problem, then that's the reason. So be it

i think the majority of what we as partners and husbands face - and it's not just men, is that of disruption to what Athol Kay describes as the chain of seduction. I can't remember it all but you have the physical attraction, which feeds into relationship comfort, which feeds into energy, which feeds into how you initiate sex, which feeds into the act of sec itself. Each link needs to be strong. Hence why Mr Cool states that you need to have your physical act together (i.e. Don't let yourself go), then you make sure you're not letting the relationship go (i.e. Not being an idiot, going on dates, keeping a good nest, being the leader in the relationship). Next comes initiation - this is where most guys stuff up (me included). Dr Robert Glover is big on this too - so basically it is the man's roll to initiate sex. Period. It is the man's responsibility to institute sex. It should be done clearly, either verbally or physically or both. None of this gently runner her back when she's turned away from you, or saying "maybe just maybe could we if it's not trouble".... I'm not saying women can't intitiate - they can, but it is the man's responsibility. Weak initiations lose attraction points. It is the woman's responsibility to say no - and no means no. So if you get a no then don't pout. Just go about your business. No big deal. Of course if the no's keep coming then something else is going on. The next step is the act but I'm not going into that here.

So I think essentially you need to start from the ground up. If you were previously pretty slim and now you're a fat slob fix that. If you used to play music in a band or rode a motorbike with leathers. It gave it away to pander to your partners ever whim then go back to it. Stop doing what's not working - stop trying to please her more and more because you want sex and think you're going to get it by turning everything on to get it. If you're not pulling your weight around the house maybe do that. What is she trying to tell you you're not doing?

theres just so much stuff. If you can work from the ground up and it's still not happening, and it's not medical then it's worth escalating to voice your concerns. At the end of the day if it's not happening and you're not happy and you have done everything you can to be a better man - for your own benefit then move on.

in my case my wife is mentally unstable. I'm positive she has a version of borderline personality disorder and no manner of self improvement helped my situation. She won't seek help and only took offense to me bringing up sex as an issue. She says she doesn't care if she never had it again but ended up on a beach with another guy. We almost separated but she asked for counseling in the final hour. I agreed but she still isn't demonstrating any commitment to reconciliation. She still treats me with contempt and disrespect. We have our second counselling session next week - and I'll update my other thread about that

anyway - back on topic. There is a system you can follow. It is important to know that it may not work for a number of reasons. The important fact is that you are making improvements to yourself for yourself only. If it doesn't work out you're in the best position to find someone who you can get your needs met with

hey Paul, how are you??

A.B. One thing I never mentioned due to loyalty to an ex (who showed me no loyalty). He was working shift work, plus o/time whenever he could. He was a prison officer and was extremely money orientated. I'm not blaming him entirely, I suppose I should've been more 'forward'. I was a bit shy, but initially I tried, o/time, in our case I did become ultra-dry due to neglect, he was not one to romance me often due to tiredness etc. My actual feelings or desire left me because of being on my own for hours, unable to work, couldn't find work, no transport etc. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I don't blame him more than me, it takes two. My dryness now means an operation, but I sort of feel if there's no romance, why bother. Lubricants don't work for me, tried them, no go. As I said, he never believed how dry I became.

Lynda