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Forums / PTSD & Trauma / The day I lost my soul

Topic: The day I lost my soul

  1. Guest_7403
    Guest_7403 avatar
    409 posts
    25 August 2021 in reply to jtjt_4862

    It wasn't closing a chapter by choice.....and it has made me realise that no amount of closed books or new starts will change anything.

    Ever since the wife left the emptiness and loneliness I feel only grows....

    My respect for wemon has reached an all time low....I could care less about them....

    My morals tell me it's wrong, and it continues to go against everything I was raised to believe.....but I simply don't care and just walk away like it's nothing.

    Guess it's karma how my life turned out

  2. jtjt_4862
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    25 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403,

    I'm sorry to hear about that. Would you like to talk more about it? I'd be happy to listen to you. It's normal to feel angry from the divorce, anger from the betrayal and mistrust. It seems really tough on you to be going through a lot of bad experiences with women, and having your heart broken all the time.

    If you don't mind me asking, would you be able to elaborate more on what you meant by "Go against everything I was raised to believe"?

    We are in control of our own happiness, and no woman or man can bring that to us. We learn to love ourselves more, and treat ourselves the way we feel we deserve.

    Jt

  3. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    25 August 2021 in reply to jtjt_4862

    The way in which I use them and discard them is what I mean.

    I don't really have bad experiences anymore, I've learnt not to get attached, not to let them in my circle.

    Theyre simply there, and it's over before it starts....they just don't know it.

  4. therising
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    25 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    Do you feel you'd be able to spot if one of these women was outstanding, like she really stands apart from the rest for some reason? Have any of them been so fascinating that you can't help but be in awe of them in some way?

    If coming across an outstanding, fascinating and awesome person was a 1 in 100 shot or even 1 in a 1000, do you know what would make them that 1 in 1000 person? Not suggesting you start a relationship with such a person but just wondering if you'd be able to recognise such a person, how you'd react to them.

    Being a woman and based on my experience, a lot of women are the same or similar in a lot of ways, just as a lot of men I've come across are the same or similar. Personally, I haven't met many outstanding people in my time. When I do meet such people, in a platonic sense, they blow my mind.

    Have you come across anyone mind blowing or mind altering, anyone seriously different, even if it simply comes down to the sex side of things?

    Do you think it's a matter of 'Same old same old, here we go again'?

  5. Guest_7403
    Guest_7403 avatar
    409 posts
    25 August 2021 in reply to therising

    I find that the more I'm attracted to them, or the more we seem to match personality wise the faster I end it.

    Usually occurs within hours, I feel inadequate, not good enough and insecure....so I just say goodbye and unmatch.

    The ones I meet are ones I have no intention of being in a relationship with.

    Self sabotage at its finest. No matter how much I tell myself not too unmatch, just be myself, take it slow, don't worry about it like the other chick's......my mind wins our everytime.

    The ex leaving not only took my child, but she took my confidence as a man....I see myself only negatively, flawed and unlovable....not good enough for anyone.

    I don't know what all these wemon see in me...I don't see it

  6. jtjt_4862
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    26 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403,

    It certainly is crushing to your confidence, when your ex decided to leave you. You were so true and assured, filled with confidence and commitment towards your relationship with her. Only for all that to be broken with distrust, betrayal, pain and hurt. It has shattered not only your heart that you once gave to your ex to the best of your ability, but also your confidence in yourself.

    Although, not saying you should not be seeing other women, but I hope you would consider investing time in yourself to work on getting back your confidence. You don't need another woman to make you feel confident about yourself, and neither would it be a healthy relationship if you were to enter into one without having confidence in yourself. You have a good sense of moral my friend, you do not want to hurt others by taking them in with your insecurities, and then discarding them like they are nothing to you.

    It'd be a different story if you're hurting others because your needs aren't met in your relationship, I learned that this kind of hurt is normal in any relationships, whether it be friends or family members. The ones who return to you, even though you've hurt them by being true to yourself, are the ones who are worth keeping and fighting for.

    You are worth more than you know, and I hope you'll be able to find the courage and strength to find it again. It may take a lot of time to do so, but I can assure every second invested into finding your self-worth and confidence, is the best kind of investment you can do to your life.

    Always here to listen to you my friend. Take care.

    Jt

  7. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    26 August 2021 in reply to jtjt_4862

    Did my usual dating apps quick look today.....and who pops up on the app seeking love? the ex...

    Looking for love apparently. Everyone at work has been telling me how happy she is with the new guy, little holidays, building a house etc....and there she is...single and on a dating app.

    I feel vindicated today.....another one bites the dust with her. Didnt even last a year the poor bloke.....i feel better about knowing this now....knowing the guy she was so set on is no more.

    Bitter sweet I guess.

  8. Petal22
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    26 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest 7403,

    Just a little something try not to believe everything your work colleagues tell you about your ex…… I believe if they had your best interests at heart they wouldn’t be telling you how happy she is…..

    You know who your true friends are they love you for you…and want the best for you…

    There you go she’s single on a dating app…….. the grass isn’t always greener on the other side…

    You deserve some one better than your ex wife Guest 7403……. Allow yourself to love yourself and know your worth…… keep moving forward 😊💪

  9. therising
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    26 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    Do you think if you discovered new facets to yourself you'd begin to naturally find yourself more interesting, which in turn would have some impact on your self esteem? For example, with the work you used to do, did you have a natural ability when it came to reading people, that others just didn't seem to have? Maybe, you could even read people so well that you could see the natural potential in some of them. Others might have simply said 'You're crazy, that person's a no hoper'.

    If you do have some natural ability when it comes to reading people, the dating/hook ups would be a perfect opportunity to test this ability. Could you get a sense of what each woman's like and see how many hits or misses you get when it comes to how well you can read them?

    I know a few people who are incredible when it comes to such an ability. My daughter's a legend at it. Can recall her saying to me some time ago how she met up with a group of friends which included some people she'd never met before. She said there was one guy amongst the group who she never actually spoke to but she said he led her stomach to churn a little. She couldn't pick it but she said there was something really off about him. She can pick the nature of people quite easily. Can't help but wonder what she was picking up from him.

    Looking back, was there anything you had some natural ability to do, that you've forgotten about? Maybe it wasn't getting a sense of what people are like, perhaps it could have involved some ability where ideas or advice for others just came to you from out of the blue, without you having to think them up. Was there anything you naturally used to do that occasionally amazed some people? I imagine there was. Might be really hard to pick it.

    By the way, I find the hardest person to read to be myself. Can take me seemingly forever to work certain aspects of myself out. Maybe this might go toward explaining why you can't work out what women see in you; they can sense or read the best in you and you can't.

  10. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    26 August 2021 in reply to therising

    Yeh 100%....I've always been able to read people.

    Its almost as if im intune with them, seem to understand what they're thinking and feeling.

    I think its the empath in me.

    But I think some people can take advantage of me for it also....because I'm so open and honest....I think others are the same.

    I didn't see my wife leaving me and the subsequent treatment afterwards....so I guess I'm not always good reading people.

    But she's a textbook narcissist....so not surprised I couldn't read her

  11. therising
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    26 August 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    Ahh, there you go; you have an incredible natural ability or you could say super natural ability. Makes you undeniably magical, especially seeing others actually study to be able to do what you can naturally do.

    Narcissists are definitely hard to read. The better the acting the harder it is to pick the fact they're acting. If they think they can get what they want by being compassionate, they'll act 'compassionate'. Sounds like your ex was a good yet depressing actor.

    It's so hard not to take what people say and do personally, especially when you're a sensitive person. I've come to find 'wonder' is a handy tool to have, being a sensitive gal. Someone could say to me 'You don't know what you're talking about. You're an idiot', for example. Did you feel that? BRUTAL SHUT DOWN! Hard not to take being shut down personally. Cue wonder. I wonder why this person's so arrogant and degrading. I wonder why they have no filter. I wonder why they're so socially unskilled to the point where they think insults are the norm in social situations. Could it be they're more invested in their own self importance? I wonder what makes them this way? Did they learn it from a dysfunctional parent perhaps or are they just seriously deluded? Now, I hope the following gets a bit of a smile out of you. Do I keep my wonder to myself or do I express it out loud at that person? 'I wonder what gives you a lack of self control when it comes to how you interact with people. I can't help but wonder why you're so insulting, over opinionated and closed minded? I genuinely want to know, out of sheer curiosity'. Wondering out loud on occasion does tend to trigger the person you're wondering at :) I've found, while wonder has the ability to conjure emotion, it can also shut emotion down in favour of pure analysis/constructive questioning. Hard to master, especially if you're in an emotional situation. I figure, being sensitive, if I'm going to be triggered I may as be triggered to wonder.

    If you're a reader of people, I imagine you're also sensitive enough to read situations quite well. I find it's a massive challenge to read a depressing situation and not become depressed by it at the same time. Take a 6th lock down in Melbourne: The 1st major one felt depressing. All that followed felt more intensely depressing. Not hard to sense/predict the mental health impact on the state of Vic. You can feel where it's heading. This triggers me to anger, as I feel so much for others.

  12. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    11 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    I can't accept love....my upbringing, my ptsd and the way I look at myself with pure hatred.....I don't accept anything good anyone says about me.

    Been seeing a lady for about 2 months now....and she tells me all these things she sees in me and tbh it's things I've heard a million times before and I refuse to accept it....if anything it upsets me more and makes me hate myself even more as I don't believe it or see it in myself.

    she told me Sunday shes falling in love with me....it immediately threw the walls back up, just drinking myself stupid now and refusing to see her again.

    I look around at all these happy couples, people living there life and doing the things they enjoy.....I can't do that...I don't have the ability to do those things and enjoy it.

    When I try I get upset and it sends me into a down spiral.

    Sends me to that dark place where I feel my only chance of peace is 6 feet under when I can no longer think.

    You only got one shot at life, and it's a short one....mine is seemingly over at 37

  13. Guest9337
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    11 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    gday guest_7403.

    i pray and hope you are having the kind of day that is meaningful for you.

    you seem to be highly aware that those we love, have the most power over us, thus true love is very vulnerable... because it is known psychology that those that love us and that we love, are the ones who will hurt us most often and worst of all.

    It is just facts of life.

  14. Sophie_M
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    11 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403
    Hi Guest 7403,

    We're so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. It sounds like you have a lot of awareness of how it’s affected you, and we hope you can be proud of yourself for that, and for sharing this here.

    It might be helpful to reach out to Counselling Online, who have amazing counsellors available to discuss how you’re feeling, and to explore how you could set up some other support, so that drinking doesn’t feel like the only option. You could also talk to the Beyond Blue counsellors on 1300 22 4636, or you might find Mensline useful on 1300 78 99 78. They might be particularly good to talk to about opening up or navigating this really difficult period where your reaction is to close off. There’s some advice from them on communication in relationships here.

    It’s really important that you are kind to yourself, and keep yourself safe. Please remember that if you feel unsafe the number to call is 000. It also sounds like the Beyond Now suicide safety planning app may be a helpful resource to you. You can read about how it works and where to download it here: https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/beyondnow-suicide-safety-planning. You can even call Lifeline (131114) and compete it together with one of their counsellors over the phone

    Thanks again for sharing here, Guest. As David's understanding post goes to show, this community is here for you. 

    Kind regards,

    Sophie M
  15. therising
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    11 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    Not sure if I mentioned before...I once read a brilliant book written by a brilliant guy, a book which touched on the different aspects of our self. It was strange in a way of how he spoke of the various senses of self like those we may come to know as 'The Victor', 'The child', 'The lover', 'The Victim', 'The Sage' and other parts of our nature. To me, what made it feel so strange is the idea that if we were to give a name to each one of these aspects of self, what we have are multiple personalities. I suppose the question becomes about who is or what is our true or core sense of self while we're coming to know all the different parts of who we are.

    I suppose we all have 'The Commander' in us. You know that sense of self that, while helpful with structure and direction, can also feel depressing at times. Can sound a little like 'Don't be so stupid. Get you're sh*t together and stop feeling sorry for yourself. Get on with things and stop dwelling'. By the end of the day I may be in tears only to have 'The Nurturer' in me chime in with 'Don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing the best you can under the circumstances'.

    I find the hardest aspect of self to connect with at times can be 'The Sage'. If we could hear the Sage in us perhaps we'd hear them say 'Have you done this before, have you faced this challenge before? Do you know how to make it through without a hitch? Of course not. Then why are you being so cruel to yourself?'

    It might sound strange but perhaps the people who are telling you who they believe you are are actually seeing aspects of you which you can't see as clearly. I believe the truly most beautiful aspect of a man is his sensitive self. It is beautiful and gentle, thoughtful, philosophical, wonderful, charismatic. At times it is childlike with its innocence and laughter yet ferocious with its courage at other times.

    Perhaps others know you better than you know yourself. Perhaps when next someone thoughtful mentions something along the lines of how compassionate you are in nature, for example, instead of rejecting this recognition, you could open your mind to wondering which aspect of you this trait belongs to. I believe there are many parts of us to be discovered throughout our lifetime, as well as parts to be healed. Could one of your greatest challenges relate to truly coming to know yourself, something others may be trying to lead you to do?

    :)

  16. Petal22
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    11 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest 7403,

    Im sorry you are feeling this way, I understand it would be difficult for you.

    Sophie has given you some really great contacts I think you should call them for some support.

    Your life isn’t over for you guest 7403, please give yourself the possibility that life can get better for you…

  17. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    19 October 2021 in reply to Petal22

    So tired of fighting just to exist/survive.

    Try to look forward but see nothing....just emptiness.

  18. Petal22
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    19 October 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest 7403,

    Im sorry you are feeling this way.

    Guest 7403 you are such a caring and compassionate person to others….

    How would you feel about giving yourself this same care and compassion?

    Hang in there, I’m always here to chat to you and I understand what you are going through would be difficult for you..

    Keep walking through the storm your rainbow is waiting for you on the other side 🙏

  19. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    3 November 2021

    Finding that my mind is in very bad shape at the moment....I can feel it slipping over weeks but am never able to stop the train wreck......its a bit like I can see the tracks are broken further ahead but can't apply the brakes....and just allow the crash to occur.

    I know my triggers and know what happens to me mentally and physically so well....all the warning signs are there....but I cannot stop it.

    The drinking begins, one can a night, then two, then 6, then all day and night on my days off...

    The other indicator is that I restrict my diet....days without eating, or eating one meal a day that's completely insufficient to maintain myself....its deliberate and calculating....as the alcohol I drink is sugar free with no calories so that I don't get energy from it either.

    I've lost weight over the last 3 weeks...with no signs of slowing....I've done this many times in my life....it lasts months until there is nothing left of me. I'm average weight now so it won't be long before I'm underweight and look sick...a lady at work noticed weight loss yesterday.

    I came home to my partner already here yesterday....shes nice, she tries to understand but has no idea what to do, say or how to help....I don't blame her....I don't know what to do.

    I went to the bottle shop and bought a 6 pack....two hours later its gone...we had dinner and finished....and my partner came around to kiss me....and I just broke down in tears....and kept saying I don't want to wake up anymore, I just want to go to sleep peacefully and never wake up again....I just went to bed...it was about 730pm.....she got up for work and tried to hug and kiss me when she left....she said she was going now not that I care.......I never responded and just rolled over.

    I keep telling her to leave me, move on, find someone that's stable and healthy....as I just cannot maintain any stability for more than a couple of days.....shes been through enough (DV) from her previous relationship....and I don't want her to be in another unhappy relationship or constantly worried about me.

    I'm not violent or anything, but I feel my mental issues are just as damaging to her...as it's awful for her to be treated how I do. I push and push her to leave and she won't....it upsets me....I get very lonely when I'm single.....but better than I used to be.....but I feel so much pressure and anxiety being with someone....I have terrible fears of abandonment so won't let anyone get close now.

    I dunno what to do anymore...so tired.

  20. Sophie_M
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    3 November 2021 in reply to Guest_7403
    Hi Guest 7403,

    It sounds like an incredibly difficult time. Thank you for sharing this here, we hope this helps you to reach out and draw on the support that can best help you through this.

    We are reaching out to you privately, but if you'd like to reach us directly we're on 1300 22 4636 or online chat (11am-12am AEDT). It might also be helpful to reach out to Counselling Online, who have amazing drug and alcohol counsellors available to discuss how you’re feeling, 24/7.

    Thanks again for sharing here. We hope you can see how strong, honest and resilient you are being in opening up here.

    Kind regards,

    Sophie M
  21. Croix
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    3 November 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Dear Guest_7403~

    It might seem like you are very bad for her and she should go. I felt the same way. My partner did not leave despite my being terrible to be with and wanting her to go, and feeling guilty about that.

    Like you I could see nothing ahead, and did not want to inflict that on anyone. That view was utterly convincing but flawed, as was my attitude to myself.

    I'm more than glad now she did not leave, it gave me great respect for her, and now , even though she has long passed away, I'm a better position to rely upon the one that loves me

    My partner did have support, I know you have been going down hill, but is it possible to see if she can have some support just for herself.

    Caring and an urge to help is built into many of us (I'd say you included from your past posts), and to deny the chance to assist and care would not have a good effect. After a DV relationship to be the one that is strong is potent medicine

    It's a pretty obvious question but you have been right down before, you recognize the signs, How did you improve last time?

    I hope you have the energy and patience to read this and reply

    Croix

  22. Guest_7403
    Guest_7403 avatar
    409 posts
    18 November 2021

    Had one of my most explosive outbursts on Saturday night....haven't had anything like that for a couple of years....had one the weekend before also but not quite as bad.

    Did a bit of damage to the house, broke a few glasses etc

    Took a few days off this week to reset so I could go back feeling fresh and clear headed.

    My birthday is coming up, I don't celebrate it and typically don't let ppl know the date...I just let it go by without acknowledging it. I don't celebrate Xmas either....can't wait for the day to go.

    I let it slip the other week to a lady I work with....but then made it clear to her I don't celebrate it and don't want it known....instead of respecting that she's told others in the office the date and I found out tonight they're all bringing in food tomorrow to celebrate it....so I've emailed work and let them know im sick and won't be in.

    its frustrating and upsetting to me....I needed the shift tomorrow to ensure I pay the bills and now I can't goto work....I don't know why people don't respect you when you tell them things......I don't celebrate it and don't want it known isn't code word for throw me a surprise party.

    My stupid parents never celebrated birthdays, never had friends over for it, was never a big deal....now that I'm older I loathe my birthday don't want anything to do with it.

    Every year would just get a peters ice cream cake....and mum would always give us kids a small piece because dad "would want extras"......I hate it...I hate my parents.....unloving, unsupportable, negative people who just tear you down and rip you apart.

    I went there two weeks ago (first time in 6 months)....30 mins and they commented on my weight, my new rental not being good enough, car not being clean enough, car not being serviced regularly.....its soul destroying....nothing good to ever say.

    My new partner, is lovely, she's trying....but she's upset at me because I won't go to Xmas with her folks....she doesn't understand the stress and anxiety I feel leading up to and then on Xmas day....would rather drink myself stupid alone at home. What a life.

  23. Sophie_M
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    18 November 2021 in reply to Guest_7403
    Hi Guest_7403,

    Sorry to hear about what's going on. It sounds like it was very upsetting for you. The community will be here to listen and chat with you. If you would like some further support tonight please feel free to call Beyond Blue 1300 22 4636. If, however, you feel unsafe this is an emergency and you need to call 000 (triple zero).
  24. therising
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    18 November 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    I'm glad you gave yourself the freedom to come here and vent your frustration and upset. Sounds like you've been holding a lot in which is understandable, especially given the lead up to 2 of the most triggering days of the year for you.

    I think some people just don't get it, how 2 days of the year they love so much can be significant triggers for others. They can be days which conjure up horrible memories for some. I think of my mum in this case. With December holding both Christmas and her birthday, December also happens to be a month she dreads. The lead up to December actually impacts not just her mind but also her immune system, often leading her to feel unwell. It's a month which conjures memories of moments which have been the most challenging in her life. When she expresses her dread of December, I encourage her to vent how she feels, while offering ideas on how to manage to get through it in sometimes unconventional ways. Others will say to her stuff like 'Why can't you just get over it and get on with life' or 'You should be happy (during a time of celebration)' or 'You can be so negative', which are further triggers for her.

    While the people at your work sound incredibly thoughtful, it also sounds like the thought stop with them thinking 'How can we make this a great day', for you, from their perspective. If they had your perspective, maybe they'd let it pass. From your partner's perspective, sounds like she loves Christmas with her family and perhaps wants you to love it too. When it comes to celebrating Christmas, I believe people are either switched on to how we feel about it or they're tuned out. It's like it doesn't matter how you relay your feelings about it, sometimes it's a matter of people brushing those feelings off before questioning 'What's wrong with you? Everyone loves Christmas' or announcing 'It's not that bad'. At the end of the day, it's okay not to celebrate these days (birthday anniversary and Christmas day). If you wanted to change what these days mean to you, that's a whole other story.

    While some parents can be questioned 'Why did you only raise your child through financial opportunities while failing to raise them in other ways?' what you can be met with is 'I raised my kids in the same way I was raised and there's nothing wrong with me'. Hmmm. Typically kids can feel, through into adulthood, when they're being raised and when they're being brought down. 'Soul destroying' has a definite feel to it.

  25. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    21 November 2021

    Birthday has passed....but has taken a significant mental toll.

    Just don't understand why I can't be a normal person.

  26. Petal22
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    21 November 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    I’m sorry Guest 7403 …… hang in there I understand it would be hard…..

    Do something nice for yourself even if it’s catching up with a mate…

  27. Guest_7403
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    409 posts
    2 December 2021 in reply to Petal22

    Haven't been to work for a few weeks....going back next week.

    My life isn't too bad atm, I don't see my youngest daughter (and won't for a very long time).

    I continue to fall down outside of work...but I feel work is the driving force.

    Atm I'm working a non custodial role in the prison...but it is still prisoner contact and I am not challenged in the role I am doing.

    I am fairly intelligent and driven to excel in whatever I do, but I never went to uni after high school so do not have any tertiary skillset to fall back on.

    I started a degree last year and did very well, but couldn't meet the mandatory commitments due to work...it was instant failure regardless of academic performance and I just couldn't attend the tutorials each time...you only get so much annual leave etc.

    I live alone, and have no external finance other than myself. I cannot quit the job that caused my illness because I need the security and salary I receive....to get a new job wouldn't give me this salary as I don't have any qualifications.

    I really don't know what to do, can't keep working there because my mental health is terrible, can't leave because couldn't afford to live.

    Can't afford to study and risk failing as the costs are too high. At 6k for two subjects a term...to fail because I can't attend and pay that money is not an option for me.

    Being alone in life is so hard.

  28. Petal22
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    5 December 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest 7403,

    Its nice to have a break from work.

    Im sorry that you won’t be seeing your youngest daughter, that must be hard for you.

    Im glad life for you at the moment isn’t too bad.

    I understand that if your not challenged in in your job that you may want to grow more and look for other employment.

    Im glad you did well in your degree it must be frustrating that you can’t attend the tutorials.

    Hmmmm it must be hard to feel like you are stuck in doing a job that you don’t really want to do… especially if it’s concerning your mental health…

    Have you been able to have a good look around for jobs that are available outside of the prison?

  29. Learn to Fly
    Community Champion
    • Outstanding members who have volunteered their time to support others here on the forums
    Learn to Fly avatar
    338 posts
    8 December 2021 in reply to Guest_7403

    Hi Guest_7403

    It’s good to hear about your learning initiative, though, I understand what you said about the time, money and work commitments. Would you consider checking TAFE options? They might have something at lower rates, plus Covid has changed a lot and plenty of courses are offered online these days. Would this be something that might be of interest to you?
    Or instead of studying maybe you can oils consider checking peer positions? Your experience (working and personal) might prove invaluable.

  30. Learn to Fly
    Community Champion
    • Outstanding members who have volunteered their time to support others here on the forums
    Learn to Fly avatar
    338 posts
    8 December 2021 in reply to Guest_7403
    Please disregard “you can oils consider” and read “you could consider “ instead. Dictionary playing up, sorry.

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