Hi all

I need help. I have been with my partner for nearly 5 years now. We've had a relationship with lots of ups and downs. Early in, we had issues with intimacy - I was on anti-depressants- unfortunately that resulted in difficulties on my part - she took this very personally and became extremely upset and angry. I was screamed at on more than one occasion. This resulted in a phobia of sorts of intimacy that I still struggle with. For the almost 5 years we've been together, we were not physically intimate for most of that time. It's only been in the last few weeks that we've actually started being physically intimate, in the normal sense. Super pleased with this break-through though.

The above never stopped me from loving her and we in spite of those issues, we have stayed together. I've worked very hard to try and resolve my issues - I have pre-existing moderate/severe depression, and have generally managed that well. She is a lovely person, although certainly not low maintenance - often things have to be done on her terms. This is something I've so far been able to manage, and despite there being some seriously bad times in the relationship I stayed, and we for the most part have worked through these things.

A couple of years ago as a last ditch attempt to make her happy during a very dark period with her- I put an engagement ring on layby. I know this was a bad decision in hindsight, but I though that if I could prove to her I loved her enough, she would reciprocate I guess and make me feel loved.

She was upset last weekend, as she didn't think we were going anywhere. She is 36 and I am 28. I love her, but I'm just not ready. We don't live together yet- we have only just started to round the corner of those physical intimacy issues. Up to that conversation I was happy with how things were going. Now I feel like I am under so much pressure.

My anxiety and depression has started to spiral out of control in the last few days. I want to make all the effort I can to give her what she wants, but I don't want to do something I'm simply not ready to do just yet.

I'm seeing my counsellor next week, but I'm just struggling with the pressure I'm feeling. I keep ruminating about what I should do/shouldn't do/what will be/won't be. It's like a whirlpool in my head I can't seem to escape from. I have no clarity and no plan and feel entirely hopeless. I can't bare to lose her as I love her so, but at the same time I want to propose when we've reached that point.

hi, welcome

I'm very glad you are seeing a counselor next week. Some things are best left to him/her but in the meantime some opinions could be helpful although very subjective.

Do you think her age might be a catalyst for much of her feelings? (having children comes to mind)

Do you think 5 years is long enough to know your future?

Assistance from a GP with your intimacy problems is readily at hand nowadays. Have you discussed this with a GP?

Do you want children?

Back one or two generations 28yo was not young to start a family nor get married. Now it seems mid to late 30's is the norm to start thinking about these things. Perhaps she is worried her time clock is ticking.

Repost anytime and thanks for being here.

TonyWK

Dear balticus,.

I think TonyWK has a good idea of maybe she wants to start a family and her time is becoming to get shorter....in terms of her having a baby...Is this something that you have both discussed at all?...starting a family...

Idk really what to suggest to you batticus ...except to go with your heart.....feeling pressured into doing something that you’re not sure if your ready for...only to prove to her that you love her and to keep her happy....doesn’t sound like it’s from your heart....

Be true to yourself and your feelings...You shouldn’t need to give her an engagement ring to feel loved.....You should feel her love for you, whenever you’re together....

My kindest thoughts dear batticus..

Grandy..

Hi. 36yo female speaking. - Just to clarify, not that 36 year old female!

I am glad you are off to the counsellor on this one - I certainly can't help you with exactly what to do!

I can tell you that my body clock is ticking - I know that if I want kids of my own that, for medical reasons, it's got to happen sooner rather than later. However, for me personally, it won't be happening with just anyone. There are lots of potential conversations that need to happen between the future father of my children and I, and if they weren't happening or there were lots of real battles to have them, that might indicate to me that he wasn't the right person. That's not to say we aren't allowed to disagree, we just need to be prepared to be open, honest and share with each other.

Like I said at the top - can't give you your answer... so please keep that counselling appointment!

Good luck with whatever direction life takes you!

Thank you everyone for your replies, I am very grateful.

I should have mentioned re. kids... she doesn't want children and neither do I, so that's not really part of the issue.

I'm not sure what to do. It's hard, but she is a very difficult person to be around at times. There are times where she is lovely, she is very affectionate, funny and a kind soul. But very often she is distant, cold, and barely speaks. She is a good person - loyal, trustworthy, but sometimes she is just so cold and distant I feel so awkward around her. I don't know what to do about this.

I've had serious mental health issues in the past, and have managed to cope well for the most part. However when I have flare-ups - I'm having one now... she is not always sympathetic. She doesn't understand anything about depression/anxiety, so she provides very little comfort at times.

My plan I've sort of come up with is to try and communicate my needs better. I'm not very assertive and that needs to change. I think if I communicate my needs clearly, and she responds badly, I guess I know things may not work out. Today we had a nice day, went for a nice outing etc. but she was cold and aloof at times. It makes me feel so sad. I try so hard but nothing makes her happy.

Right now I just feel so anxious and tense, it's like my chest is going to explode. I'm trying to hold myself together but I'm struggling.

We don't live together, she has never wanted to stay at my house. If marriage is on the cards... we have to be able to compromise and ultimately live together for it to work. She has agreed to stay over at my house tonight - I'm pleased with this, but I still feel like I'm hurting. I don't even know why.

I'm sorry I'm rambling and don't make sense. I just don't know what to do, and I feel terrible.

Hi,

Try asking questions. When she goes into her shell ask questions like anyone else would.

• How are you feeling?
• Are you sad or something similar?
• Why are you quiet?

When you get an answer ask another

The reason this is important is that these are normal questions. If you dont get any response or her response isnt substantial enough to sooth your concerns then you indeed have issues that need relationship counseling. That course is essential in your case because you'll either become more satisfied with her answers or you will get greater clarity and move on.

One way or the other will benefit you but mid way is not allowing your anxiety to subside.

TonyWK

Thank you Tony

She stayed over at my house on Sat night - I was so happy. I tidied up and made everything look nice. When she arrived, she was in a huff and wouldn't talk to me. It was as if I had done something seriously wrong. It was sad as earlier that day, we had a nice outing - and I was feeling positive.

We had a big , very emotional talk the next morning. It was pretty harrowing. I'm still struggling. She basically said that she's too old for 'sleepovers' and is sick of dating, she wants marriage ultimately. I completely understand this, and I ultimately want to get married too. But what else can we do? We don't own a home together yet, and talks about that have never started. What concerns me is that over the last five years, I've always had to stay at her house. She would never stay at mine. My house is tidy, comfortable, in a pleasant spot - but she would basically never stay over.

She described her idea of marriage - and to me it sounded more like two housemates living together, doing separate things for a lot of the time. My view of marriage is that it's where your life is shared with someone else, obviously you have different interests and hobbies, but you are a team. I don't get that feeling. I get a feeling her idea of marriage is quite different to mine.

She also has ambitions of moving interstate. She has no real pressing need to but it's something she wants. I'm not ready for that. For me I need my family, support network of friends, and ultimately being 'home' to keep me healthy and safe with my mental health situation. Maybe one day I'll be doing better and can contemplate such a thing, but right now I wouldn't last long - I'm afraid I may well end up in a mental health facility without that support.

We are going to try and talk more about these harder topics and hopefully navigate through them. I know this is going to be challenging and may well make or break us. What I'm scared of right now is how my mental health has deteriorated so rapidly and I don't know how much longer I can function like this. We have gone through so much together over the last almost 5 years, lots of bad things, but nice things too and we got through it. It hurts so much to see my life unravel like this.

Hi again, glad you're still chatting here.

There seems an awful lot of "hope" going on in your relationship. She hopes you'll move interstate with her, she hopes for marriage soon, you're hoping one day to be more stable mentally and that might lead to wanting to move interstate to satisfy her wishes and you are hoping her ideas on marriage will blend with yours.

Being a community champion here means supporting those that need the support and give limited advice. My concern with that is that in this case to support you might not result along the lines of giving false hope. In my view there is too many "hopes" and not enough natural areas of compatibility. In that case the compromises you both seek is not going to "cut the mustard" (enough to satisfy long term).

• She hopes you'll move interstate with her- If you move interstate and you find it alienating as well as needing family close by will she move back with you? Will she understand?
• She hopes for marriage soon- Will she settle for a continuing defacto relationship like moving in together in a home she feels comfortable in?
• You're hoping one day to be more stable mentally and that might lead to wanting to move interstate to satisfy her wishes- hoping to be more stable mentally is a dream/goal we all have here but rarely does that dream result in any significant reality
• You are hoping her ideas on marriage will blend with yours. This needs more investigation. Her dream of a wedding might be (and rightly so) something she's watched happen with family and friends for near 2 decades. A wedding should only take place if it develops into a natural course by both parties.

In some ways I sypathise with her. She's mid thirties wanting marriage but she might be ignoring the hurdles pointed out above to complete that dream. A couple of years post wedding that dream becomes a memory and all the other issues grow from issues to road blocks. Love does not conquer all, weddings dont solve differences and empathy for us the mentally ill can be frustrating for the other person.

So to support you I've aimed at clarity as to what is the course that will avoid potentially bigger problems down the track. The only other way to avoid them is heavy continuous counseling for both of you together. If she refuses that then it displays lack of a quality you need for a future. But still go yourself to extend the clarity either way from a professional counselor.

Repost anytime. I hope that helps.

TonyWK

Thanks Tony

I sympathise with her too, that's partially why I'm feeling bad too - I feel guilty I can't just give her what she wants. That's what I strive to do for her, and what I've basically done the last five years. I really would like this work for us both, but there are some roadblocks in the way that will be very challenging to get past. The fact we've had an open conversation about what we want/need has been good - and to me feels positive.

I think we need to talk more, and actually get used to having harder conversations when required. She tends to bottle things up, and I do the same - not a great combination. She bottles things up for so long, and suddenly she will explode. Earlier in the relationship, she was at times verbally abusive to me, and this still affects me in some ways now.

She had for a big part of last year issues with extenuating circumstances around her work - instead of allowing me to support her and be part of the solution, I was shut out. It was all top secret. To me this feels like in terms of the relationship , a year of nothing basically.

I think counselling for both of us is something we can benefit from, although I fear it is highly unlikely she would agree to attend. She distrusts counsellors/psychologists. And regarding depression/anxiety, she initially had a "get over it, man up" attitude. That has changes as she's got to know me, but to an extent I suspect she still thinks that way.

I'm going to try and facilitate things as best I can for now - depending where this takes us I will suggest couples counselling. Ultimately even if we don't live in the same house, I'd like to see us being together at either house most of the time. That would be a big improvement and hopefully help things. Me seeing my counsellor is going to be helpful at least for me.

Thanks again Tony

Hi op. Well, 5yrs of rocky and with hardly any intimacy yet still here, l know many might see it differently but personally l think that's a real testament to you both hanging in there and refusing to quit. Even with all the differences that one thing in my book is a very big thing long term or married.

One other thing comes to my mind apart from things already talked about is though that things seems so much about her and her way and you making her happy. Thing is there's 2 people , not just one but anytime l've seen it just all about one or focused on ones happiness , it hasn't ended well . Just don't neglect your own happiness wants and needs too , and she should want you to be happy just as much as herself.

Good luck with everything anyway . rx

Hello Batticus, thanks for your comment and the support you have been given.

You say 'you feel guilty for what I can't give her what she wants ', a relationship needs to be caring for each other, sure there are times when we want to spoil our partner which is very much appreciated but to place demands on what one believes should happen without any discussion, especially if you aren't living together needs to be spoken about.

There are two of you and you should be happy with what decision is made between the two of you because living together everything does change.

Take care.

Geoff.

Thanks again everyone for the replies

Rx- yes it's been hard- the intimacy component of the relationship hasn't been easy. It has been mostly on her terms. At times I found it incredibly depressing and draining. Loving someone but never being able to express that in a normal way. I guess the important thing is this component of the relationship is finally starting to happen, for a while there I thought it may well never happen. I agree, the fact we've both stuck this out does speak volumes. You are right though, I am prioritising her happiness over mine. Truth be told I don't even know what would make me happy, it's not something I've really spent much time thinking about. This is something I need to address with my counsellor.

Thanks Geoff for your kind words. That's one of my concerns, ultimately we will be living together if we're to get married, and we need to have a shared vision of what that will look like. From the last talk we had, her idea of married life was different to mine. My view is that in marriage we should be a team, obviously still having our own interests still, but the capacity to take interest in each-others respective interests and ultimately living a shared life. Her idea seemed to be more that we'd be co-inhabiting a space, but very much doing our own thing.

I think the problems from my end boil down to three things;

- Differing ideas of what married life will be - I am sure this can be worked out though.

- Her desire to potentially move states - this is harder to resolve - my mental health situation makes this extremely difficult. Also, there is no apparent reason to move states. We both have good jobs and have family here. This could be a big issue.

- Lack of support with my mental health issues. I'm pretty stable but when I need the support from my partner, it's not always there. I don't expect her to be my counsellor or anything but there is a lack of understanding and empathy which means I can't always depend on her for support if I'm having a rough patch. This isn't a deal-breaker living here, but if we moved interstate and I lose my support network of friends and family - this will be a huge problem.

It's a lot to process but we need to ultimately talk these things through. I haven't communicated any of my needs clearly to her, and finally I'm starting to do that. We need to be on the same page if we have any hope of this working out.

I think your nailing it down better than when you first posted.

Going to counseling yourself will help a lot but if she doesn't go that highlights a concern.

How far will she go to work at the relationship?

TonyWK

Hi Tony

I think the panic element of this situation has calmed down and thanks to yourself and the other kind people here I've been able to gain some clarity of thought. I've spent a bit of time with my partner too and in terms of the relationship -we have plenty of positives to work with.

I think it's very unlikely she will attend any form of counselling. Ages ago with our issues with intimacy, I was the one who sought counselling. Issues that took years to improve could have been resolved so much faster if we both were involved.

I will certainly give her the opportunities and invite her to actively be a part of working through this, it's not something that I can sort out by myself.

Fabulous. You can update us if you need further help or whatever.

Thankyou

TonyWK

Thanks Tony

I think the main thing that bothers me is the feeling of anxiety that lingers - knowing more hard conversations need to be had, and not necessarily knowing when/how they will happen. While I've kind of rationalised what I'm feeling, I still have this sick feeling, and chest pain that just simply won't quit.

I look back on the time we've spent together and there have been many great times, many awful times too. We've managed to somehow keep it together this long. I've been told by people that she isn't really good for me- and the balance of the relationship is out of whack. They're probably right to a point, but the thought of not being with her anymore is frankly terrifying to me.

Seeing my counsellor tomorrow morning so I can hopefully talk some of these worries through. I'm just so tired of this anxious feeling, it's making everything so hard.

I saw my counsellor last week, it's put things in perspective a bit. The long and short of it is that I've expressed to her what my needs are - I'm happy to progress our relationship but if she won't compromise on moving away the relationship won't work. My counsellor made the point of mentioning that moving is a very stressful thing to do - for any relationship - even the healthiest of relationships will experience some strain. Given our situation, I know that it just won't work - even if I was to agree to move away with her. Basically at the end of the day, she needs to decide what she wants to do - I don't think she's completely figured that out yet.

I'm giving what I can to the relationship now, doing what I can to make things better. That's really all I can do for now. What is hard is this feeling of uncertainty, that at any moment things could suddenly change. It's very hard knowing that if she were to agree to stay here with me, I would be happy to keep the relationship moving and in the short/mid-term propose to her. But without that, I'm kind of stuck. We will have to talk about this at some point.

That uncertainty is causing me so much anxiety it's getting in the way of everything. I feel on edge and in a state of panic most of the time now. I have also lost weight as I don't have much of an appetite any more. I'm trying to distract myself as much as I can from this but nothing works.

Hi again

Good progress there mate.

A story might help. I'm 65yo but in my 20's I had a 7 year defacto relationship.

Over those 7 years my partner left me about 150 times. About twice a week. Sh'ed leave a note telling me she was leaving me and to live with her mother. She had serious psychiatric issues. She had a toddler son.

I love her that much that I tolerated it, but it cause great sorrow. I wanted marriage, my own child etc. My parents were also pressurising me in the days of getting married by 25yo.

After 6 years of this I visited a counselor. He suggested a number of things-

• that love can cover many things but one serious flaw can cause the relationship to not work out
• that most people have limits, I had to find mine
• That just because I'm in love doesnt mean I can love and be loved just as much with someone else
• That sometimes love needs testing. He used a metaphor for this but basically he meant that if I broke up with her and it was strong enough, her love would draw her towards me
• That love between both parties isnt always equal

I decided to give her a massive chance- one whole year to sort her life out. One year later, even though the relationship was going ok (but still leaving me often) I asked her the question "have you thought about the ultimatum I gave you 12 months ago today"? She had forgotten about it. I took that in the negative in that she should have had it on her mind. She was still confused and non committal.

Driving away that night was one of the hardest acts of my life.

Six months later I saw her car at a shop. I waited. She arrived, hugs. During that catch up I asked her a few questions-

• Have you found someone else (her non answer and vacant stare told me she had) as did the answer to the next question "I assume you are living with him"?
• "have you broken it off by leaving a letter"? she said "umm yes I have"

I expressed that I felt sorry for the guy. We parted ways and I felt much better knowing that my often guilty conscience was not justified.

I married 2 years later and that lasted 11 years. Had a 10 years partner that didnt work out and now married a second time for 10 years and we are very happy.

I've loved each partner as much as the original partner and have been loved as much. But it goes to show...it isnt the end of the world only the beginning of your life in the ambition to find a partner that compatibility reins supreme.

I commend you for seeking professional help.

TonyWK

Update on current situation

GF is still very unhappy. She was giving me silent treatment. The more I tried to ask what was happening the angrier she became. It was about marriage/future of relationship. We had a brief argument; I articulated that before marriage I would like us to be living more like a couple. Currently we mainly see each-other on weekends only. This was on Wednesday night. She said we'd talk more Saturday.

I've been thinking it through and I've decided that I am open to progressing the relationship to that next stage in the short/medium term but I don't want to move interstate. She often leaves it to me to be the one to make hard decisions.

I can deal with the other issues in the relationship, but moving interstate where I have zero friends, no obvious employment prospects, and most importantly for me - no family, is not something I can do.

We are going to talk Saturday about this and I'll put it to her. She can take her time to decide, but ultimately it's her choice.

I feel sick in the stomach but I think that is normal given the circumstances

Yeah , like WN with his ex she expected you to be thinking about it all like he did the same.Women are very wary about wasting time.

Just wondering , can you understand why and what it's about you feeling sick to the stomach ?

Anyway , in your case op yeah l'd def think you should live together before marriage with such little time and real life together yet rocky so far. l think you two have to try this for real first.

gOOD luck . rx

Hi Rx

I guess the sick to the stomach feeling is from not knowing how she's going to take it

In a perfect world she'd be open to committing to a life here in Tassie with me. I realise there's a possibility she won't be agreeable to this. I'm tired of the arguing and having to explain myself all the time. There's a feeling of uncertainty looming over me , it's incredibly draining

But I agree we need to try it for real first - I don't think that's a unrealistic course of action , in fact I think it's very normal.

Yeah right l see. Unfortunately no way around that one eh.

l certainly know about uncertainty been living with that one a couple of yrs myself now.

Some couples would be fine without trying things although pretty rare these days not to live together l suppose too but in your cases yeah, think you really should.

Good luck on the wkend anyway. rx

A rather torturous anti-climactic weekend sadly

I have a job interview tomorrow so we agreed to leave talking things through until later. I'm thinking it'll likely be next weekend. See what happens. I feel very knotted up. Having all this happening at the same time as getting ready for a job interview is too much

Thanks for your kind words Rx

Good luck with the interview.

And relax man, just relax , be yourself , you'll be fine.

rx

@batticus - good luck at the job interview. Hope it goes well for you. Sorry about what you wrote on this thread and the other thread about your relationship up in air. It sounds like you are trying to do all the right things in talking about where you are at etc.

On the relationship ... is it a case of things moving faster than you like? differences in what you want in marriage? same or different goals? I noticed she wants to move interstate. (And then I know someone who is married and the husband and wife live separately.) It is good to hear you have a counsellor you can talk to about all of this stuff.

Wish you well

Hi smallwolf

Thanks so much, I hope it goes well. It's a job that's out in the suburbs as opposed to the CBD. Will be nice to not have to pay for parking all the time etc. Plus it's a nice place to work - I did a traineeship there year and years back and would love to be back.

I'm trying as hard as I can to do the right things and stay positive. It's just a really unpleasant time right now. I'm hoping there's going to be some sort of resolution sooner or later.

Re the relationship; the main deal-breaker for me is moving interstate. Most other things I can cope with and work around. Being here in Tassie means the world to me. I have my friends, family, work etc. My entire support network that keeps me safe and well is here. Moving interstate would be nothing short of catastrophic. I know some people thrive on that sort of change, I'm not one of them!

My next councillors appointment isn't till mid next month unfortunately but I have a very patient Mum that helps me at times when things get too much. She is truly a life saver. (as are the fine people on this forum too).

Hello Batticus, there is nothing worse than the 'silent treatment', I had to suffer from this for years and normally I'd be the one to succumb to her ideas, sometimes this was achievable, other times not so as it may not have worked out.

If she is wanting you to make all the hard decisions, then that's not fair on you because if something does go wrong, then it's going to take an extra effort to stop the silent treatment, which I'm not sure you want.

As you have said 'Moving interstate would be nothing short of catastrophic' and I'm no different, I hate moving towns, let alone interstate, I couldn't do that, especially as no one knows what's going to happen to COVID, one day a state is clear, then suddenly they're in lockdown, so a good reason to stay in Tassie.

If an amicable resolution can't be resolved over this, then life has so many decisions that are needed to be made in the future and each one can't involve the silent treatment, then nothing will be decided on, sorry it's just a situation I didn't like at all.

Geoff.

Thanks Geoff

The silent treatment is horrible for sure. It's a sure way to torture someone. It's particularly bad because my dad used to do that to us as kids if we did something he didn't like. It makes me feel very low.

The part that is really hurting is not knowing. She's been very helpful and supporting re. my job interview today and I"m very grateful for that, but it makes me feel sick knowing that depending on how she responds to my concerned about moving interstate, this could all be over.

I'mt scared of how bad my depression has become in the last week or so. I'm going to my GP tomorrow to access the mental health treatment plan. Feeling this low really frightens me. I need to try and look after myself if nothing else for the time being.