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Forums / Relationship and family issues / They just wont understand, why?

Topic: They just wont understand, why?

  1. white knight
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    7 June 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hi Em

    Im happy the education system is filling in the need to cover topics not previously on the radar.

    re: Our youth have a DARNED lot of cleaning up to do, left by the messes of previous generations - I hold hope that these generations "did their best" but I've seen too much evidence of the contrary TBH.

    I’m 64yo and feel I lived as a teen in the tail end of the “use the earths resources and ruin the earth” mentality. Eg we drove cars without thought about the pollution it created.

    For mankind the world was our oyster to use up as man felt its resources was never ending.

    Like many things man touches his actions had to get to crisis point before action would be taken. Then action itself is a slow machine (global warming is another example and Covid).

    So, my comment to past generations is- they did the best at the time with the knowledge they had and their capabilities based on slow change that couldn’t be sped up. Change meant losing money! Sadly

    A lot of the younger generation is blaming baby boomers for their own plight of not being able to purchase a house. I don’t see any person in their 20’s working 3 jobs as I did to get one. I suggested once to one complainer to join the military as I did so after a few years you’d get a home loan “I don’t want to be away from my friends” was his answer.

    I don’t think previous generations are to blame for the worlds problems, but it’s just my view.

    TonyWK

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  2. Sleepy21
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    18 June 2020

    things are changing in mental health but agree with Josh, very slow

    stigma is real. Many people still have to hide their metnal illnesses from friends and employers and it's darned exhausting

    update - one of my friends abandoned me when I was in hospital. I asked her recently why she hasn't been in touch for four months. She said she's too overhwhelmed to see any friends. i just saw that she' put on instagram her and her friend reuniting and how happy she is to catch up with her.

    I knew her excuses were phony.

    She didn't want to see me because she didn't like dealing with me when I wasn't so fun.

    So is part of life's challenge weeding these people out?

    Does MH struggle in a way bless us with an ability to see who is real and who is not??

    Honestly MH struggles help you grow in a way that others don't get to. There are silver linings, although right now it hurts to feel "dumped"

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  3. white knight
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    18 June 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi sleepy

    re: “So is part of life's challenge weeding these people out?

    Does MH struggle in a way bless us with an ability to see who is real and who is not??
    Honestly MH struggles help you grow in a way that others don't get to. There are silver linings, although right now it hurts to feel "dumped" “

    Yes. Rejection by non commuted friends has a positive in that it exposes their shallowness which although leads to a grief session, fine tunes our friends.

    Ive written a lot on this topic. You only need to read the first post of each

    use search bar at the top

    fortress of survival (also part 2)

    rejection is hard to swallow

    Depression and toxic people

    ”normal” people won’t understand

    Im tagged a nutter- what about them?

    chat soon

    TonyWK

  4. AlwaysForgotten
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    18 June 2020 in reply to white knight

    Hi Tony,

    I am going to challenge you on this as I feel it is important to have alternative perspectives on things.

    If a person IS able to do those little things & they also show that they can do things like chatting with "other people", then how can their decision not to do these things with you be anything other than they "wont" do it? It is already established that it is within their capacity to complete the task, there clearly is no physical barrier to prevent them & they demonstrate that they can do these things with other people. The only difference then between chatting with you & chatting with someone else is their PERCEPTION of what that chat means, what they perceive differently between the two people & how they process that difference in perception. You cannot then claim that there is some kind of disorder or issue that only affects chatting to one person but magically disappears when chatting to another. So this comes down to them making a choice & in making a choice they have shown that they "wont" do it.

    I believe the same goes for understanding what others are going through. You are correct that some just cant understand (theory of mind not withstanding), as well as some just not understanding, but there is also some people that just dont WANT to understand, that are happier with their perceptions willfully being held as truth because of what they gain in holding those views.

    One example that comes to mind is a partner who wants something to be the fault of their spouse, that to them it is in their best interest to keep the spouse to blame for their actions & so they "wont" understand what their spouse is going through because doing so would take away the power they have. So in this instance they clearly "wont" understand & never will because there is intent in their not understanding.

    I think this is extremely important to understand, that if we find ourselves in a position saying that someone "wont" understand, it may be an indication of something underlying that isn't obvious.

    But I definitely think it is valid to say someone "wont" understand

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  5. white knight
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    19 June 2020 in reply to AlwaysForgotten

    Hi AF

    I am not fully clear about what you are saying but allow me to give it a try.

    What you are highlighting is that some people, when they are confronted with a person with a mental illness, choose to not want to understand as opposed to won’t understand.

    To me these are two separate topics and this is probably a good opportunity to write a post on same.

    This thread was not intended to cover all the possible reasons why some/many people don’t understand- let’s look at the possibles

    • Don’t want to understand- as you’ve mentioned that they exercise freedom of choice
    • lack of ability to extend themselves to understand - lacking empathy
    • lack of ability to extend themselves to understand- immaturity
    • lack of ability to extend themselves to understand- they have their own worries

    ETC ETC

    This post focussed on why, commonly, they won’t understand eg that it’s an illness they cannot see and illnesses that often people are uncomfortable talking about for whatever reason.

    To “challenge” me about it is not imo the better word but to “add” to the theme of reasons for others willingly ignoring us with these illnesses would be a better word.

    I will look forward to a new post from you explaining why people make such choices not to want to understand. I’ve covered a lot of ground with over 300 topics I’ve written about for over 7 years now.

    Regards TonyWK

  6. AlwaysForgotten
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    20 June 2020 in reply to white knight

    Hi Tony,

    Given that "wont" is really just an abbreviated form of "will not" which shows a clear intention to not do something, I dont see how they are two separate topics.

    I hope you dont find this pedantic of me, but looking at your list of 4 things, I also do not believe the last one is a "lack of ability", as having their own worries indicates "lack of capacity" rather than not being able to. The other 2 prior to that in the list are correctly a lack of ability, although I am very cautious about ever using empathy over sympathy as it not only reduces your effectiveness in helping other people, sympathy by definition is the ability to understand what other people are going through without having been through it themselves (and the goal here is to understand is it not?)

    I guess the primary reason why I "challenged" you (and I do still see this as a different direction rather than adding to yours), was your initial statement of:

    "“Wont” means they have a choice to understand your emotional struggles. It should, in many
    cases, be replaced with “don’t” or "cant""

    We would not expect someone immature to understand & it would be unreasonable to put that responsibility on those we know are not mature, likewise with empathy. So as you said, this post was focusing on why "commonly" they wont understand, where I believe that this is not really common at all. I believe the most common reason does in fact come down to the other person choosing not to understand, which is also why I felt there needed to be a counter balance to what you have said.

    I believe the primary reason why people choose to not understand comes from the "Fundamental Attribution Error" which is a frequent mistake that humans make. This is neither the result of immaturity nor a lack of empathy and in fact few people even know it exists yet make the mistake all the time.

    Ultimately I think what is most important is the desire to genuinely understand someone, and it is this which I believe is lacking in the majority of cases. I do think delving into this kind of area is ultimately helpful for everyone and being able to contrast different approaches makes our thoughts more robust, so I appreciate you jumping in there with me to look at it together

  7. white knight
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    20 June 2020 in reply to AlwaysForgotten

    Hi

    In 4.5 years there has not been any other person that has criticised this post for any reason let alone over basically one word being used that could have been swapped for another eg

    ” "“Wont” means they have a choice to understand your emotional struggles. It should, in many
    cases, be replaced with “don’t” or "cant"" “

    I am not interested in taking this discussion further. I prefer to converse with those that desire to wonder why some people act the way they do.

    We champions are all here to help others more than getting bogged down on one word. That distract me from my role.

    Peer advisers are passing on valuable experiences. High tertiary quals including grammar is not a prerequisite.

    I wish to make it clear you haven’t upset me. I’m just more focussed on members that I can assist and they in turn express their gratitude.

    TonyWK

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  8. white knight
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    20 June 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy 21

    Ive been wondering how you have been coping with the problems with your friendships.

    In life we do not have prior knowledge about a potential friend unless another person has informed us to befriend them or be wary. To have no information about a person we are gambling on that persons character and compatibility.

    Often we only know months or years down the track if they fail us.

    On the other hand the benefits of a small percentage becoming a friend imo far outweighs the hurt by a poor choice. This is precisely where positive thinking can dominate your life. If you study positive thinking with research/ attending motivation lectures/ turning all negatives into positives (where possible) then all challenges are easier to face and often more enjoyable.

    For example- we followed friends half way around Australia. In a very remote area we broke down and they steamed ahead. We rang them when they got in phone range about 100kms further on an requested help. They decided to keep going effectively abandoning us. We had to rely on the help of passing travellers. These friends we’d known for 20 years.

    We broke the friendship off. The positive was we would no longer place trust and faith in people that, in time of great need, would abandon us. We could focus on others of better caliber.

    So, to clarify, losing a friend that doesn’t prove supportive in the most basic sense of the word is losing someone you had hoped was more supportive than what they proved- but was never a friend in the first place.

    TonyWK

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  9. Sleepy21
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    20 June 2020

    Hi Tony

    Such a kind post, thank you for sharing.
    I read somewhere regarding dating that sometimes lets say a person you've been dating for a little bit shows their true colours - it's not so much the pain that they are not that great for us, but it's more admitting we were wrong! We chose the wrong person! We didn't see it clearly.

    Sometimes we are blindsided also if the person offers us something we need at the time.... I was lonely and this friend offered companionship.

    I'm struggling a lot losing that friendship but I fully understand what you mean - such a friend was actually never a friend at all - so it's not exactly loss. It's more readjusting my understanding of the world, and seeing how people can be.

    I'm actually trying very hard not to return to that friend and am attempting NC for the time being. I hope it will get easier over time. She was someone I considered a close friend but was never 100 percent sure about inside (the gut does know).

    I've heard a lot of similar stories like the one's regarding your close friends driving off and abandoning you in your moment of need. I think it can be that people show their true colours to us at those times. Even people say in marriages like that - after many years they have a sudden jolt when the person acts in a way they never would've expected, leading to the end of the marriage.

    I like what you said about positive thinking. Giving people a go and hoping for the best.

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  10. white knight
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    20 June 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy

    wondering if like me many years ago, have an attachment problem.

    When young I’d feel like I fell in love really quickly but in reflection it was more infatuation... to obsessive levels.

    If so it isn’t your fault but certainly something to be aware of and seek adjustment.

    In my thread “fortress of survival “ (also part 2), it highlights filters some of us don’t use while the majority do. I used to call it street wisdom.

    It is like this- we live in a castle and someone knocks on the gates- we let them in and take them to the lounge where we drink, be merry and share secrets.

    The better more common way is to take them to the foyer and converse, during which we assess their honesty, then reject maybe purely in gut feelings. If they pass however you move them to a den and do on, only after many months do you move to the lounge. Even then be ready to eject them from your castle.

    Only one or two most trustworthy friends join you in your attic. These friends won’t hear bad words about you, love you unconditionally and lifelong.

    One of them is...you

    TonyWK

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  11. AlwaysForgotten
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    20 June 2020 in reply to white knight

    Hi Tony,

    I thought that was exactly what we are doing, that my post was specifically about wondering why people do what they do and that this would be helpful for other people to understand an alternative to what you have described.

    I apologize if you did not feel that was helpful or that it added to the conversation (strange considering you started by saying it did), but I respect if you dont want to deal with an alternate view point that may be helpful to other people

    Sorry for upsetting you

  12. Sleepy21
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    21 June 2020

    I do have a fear of abandonment but have attached in the past I think to people who weren't able to be stable for me. I accepted excuses as well

    After my recent suicide attempt I have such a low tolerance now for excuses.
    I think I always felt bad about myself and like I was in the wrong, so it was easy for people to justify their bad behaviour and I accepted it.

    It wasn't so so hard to break now that I've got some support around this - I started researching patterns of abuse, ideas of supply, and also I try and check in with how I'm feeling. Sometimes it still isn't instantly obvious who's safe but I can spot it after a little while.

    I imagine you learnt so much from that marriage etc and were able to move on to someone who was better for you. This is kind of my goal I guess. I don't want to let people in who will take me for granted.

    I'm a good enough friend and have had some beautiful lifelong friendships that feel real. The other stuff, the fake friendships which have abandonment would have that rush of them being close to me than dumping me. I never knew where I stood. When they were very close to me I felt that I didn't deserve it, and when they dumped me I felt sort of confirmed that I wasn't good enough. But really they just weren't capable of being a good friend.

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  13. white knight
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    21 June 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy,

    A very interesting discussion.

    In 1996 one week before separation I had my attempt. Post that event a few friends slowly drifted away. They were the ones that were out of their comfort zone having to deal with an unstable person.

    I also grew more easily tired of small talk, fake welcomings and any sign of manipulation. Paranoid?almost.

    use search bar

    the best praise you’ll ever get

    the labyrinth of friendships

    The first one is immediately post my first marriage, 40yo, lost my full time fatherhood, recovering from a narcissistic wife. I dug deep to recall the difficulties.

    Sometimes we have to guess what is in our friends mind. I had s school friend I’d known for 50 years. He began to act distant then my sister suggested he was jealous. It turned out he was. I had children in my early 30’s, he mid 40’s. At 50yo he didn’t have the enthusiasm to play with his kids, yet my daughters were adults- off our hands, free to go travelling etc.

    How has your recovery progressed?

    TonyWK

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  14. Sleepy21
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    27 June 2020 in reply to white knight

    hi Tony

    Sounds like you dug deep after your marriage ended and were able to achieve so much

    It's nice that you were able to have kids in your early 30s and then be able to watch them grow. I'm 35 now and hoping to have a family someday but things aren't looking so bright...
    My recovery is a painful struggle with wins and losses

    I don't really have any support from family or friends

    I have to keep reaching out and getting support either professionally or asking the one or two friends I have for a chance to spend time

    My brother is very awkward and came to see me last week. I was very very vulnerable when he came (just coinceidently, he announced he'd be coming on that very day, and I had been in the midst of a low and desperate few days) - when he arrived I asked if he'd hang out for a bit and go for a walk with me, he said no. Seemed he only allocated a few minutes to spend with me.
    The pscyhologist said he is just very awkward. Sometimes these little things feel very personal.
    Sometimes they are.

    The friend I had mentioned earlier in the post, i have stopped making effort with. After the first two weeks, I feel I mentally moved on from her, which has helped me. The first step is always the hardest

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  15. white knight
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    27 June 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy

    I discovered early on that between psych/therapist visits was a huge vacant space where I felt I had to fill with my own ideas and what worked for me.

    Im not religious but envied those that are as they had spiritual fulfilment. So I searched for a spiritual guide and found Maharaji Prem Rawat a wise man that did more for me watching his YouTube videos than and psych could.

    Google

    youtube maharaji sunset

    youtube Maharaji the perfect instrument

    youtube Maharaji appreciate

    Then there is the self help ideas like muscle tensioning exercises- again, helped me to sleep better than any sleeping tablet.

    As for your brother his awkwardness is a shame and I feel sorry for him. However I’m happier you have moved on from your “friend”. Friendships are fluid they come and go. Protecting ourselves is priority, even if ones child is toxic and destructive like my youngest.

    This prioritiving sounds selfish, it flies in the face of unwritten rules of standing by family. But we with mental illness cannot cope with such upheaval- we have little flex in this.

    When I reflect I realise my greatest ability was to draw on my inner positivity.

    Google

    beyondblue 30 minutes can change your life

    The change from negative thinker to positive one occurred in 1982 but that didn’t stop an attempt on my life in 1996. I learned that a motivated mind helps in recovery but not in prevention of heavily depressive episodes.

    My wife of 8 years never had her own children. She like me live animals. Also I’d known her 25 years prior to dating her. Her previous husband had ill health so children was out of the question. She is “mum” to my eldest.

    Fact is time is not in your side but, what is your priority? The best mental health you can get is a good goal. Relaxation with topics like if you have children or not. Letting it be on your mind isn’t always a good thing....like voluntary torture.

    topic: worry worry worry

    TonyWK

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  16. Sleepy21
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    2 July 2020

    Hi Tony, I feel like I relate and understand a lot of what you're writing.
    I also struggle with the unwritten laws society places about "sticking by family." it seems to ignore that sometimes the way we help is by distance.

    I saw my brother this week and he was really awkward again, he was on his phone the whole time and made me feel like he didn't want to be there. I asked him if he was expecting a call, and he said no, he's just being an addict. He has no interest in my mental health journey and didn't ask any questions about it. We talked mostly about shows and news... it is what it is, i guess. The sad thing is he wants to work in mental health.. but okay....

    Do you think that your recovery helped you to meet a more supportive partner? Ie when you felt better you attracted someone better for you?
    I hope that will happen in my life to be honest.
    Thank you for being happy for me about me walking away from toxic friends. I worry I sound selfish, but I want to recover so badly, and I need safe people around to do so. I will look into the spiritual side... I think having a sense of something above us does help. I'm quite spiritual in my way.

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  17. white knight
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    2 July 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy

    thankyou for replying

    re: “Do you think that your recovery helped you to meet a more supportive partner? Ie when you felt better you attracted someone better for you?
    I hope that will happen in my life to be honest”

    In my case recovery of any illness or medications improving stability didn’t assist me in selecting a new partner. In fact in 2008 following the end of my 3rd long term relationship, I’d retreated to the hills in a hamlet with a small new home - never to live life with another human being.

    But loneliness is hard to cope with. A lady that I’d matched with my previous brother in law way back in 1987 had been single too and she had been my daughters favourite auntie by marriage. Our compatibility was extraordinary- she has depression, adores animals and appreciated me. We married in 2011.

    I can’t emphasise strong enough that I didn’t previously have a good filtering system in place. That’s why I wrote

    Fortress of survival

    fortress of survival part 2

    fortress of survival (workplace)

    use search bar. All of those relate to countering ones vulnerability by introducing screening into our decision making. Using our head instead of our heart to make emotional decisions.

    They say there is a person for all of us- that’s true - but we have to proactively search and be more cautious... take more time.

    TonyWK

  18. Sleepy21
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    4 July 2020 in reply to white knight

    thanks, i feel encouraged to understand that you were able to learn and grow in terms of filtering people better

    living on a hamlet alone is something i can understand, the natural world can seem safer than humans

    its amazing that you and your wife had so much in common and found each other at the right time - i love stories like that. it sounds like you were really suited and connected

    i also had a terrible filter and used to let people in mostly out of pity sometimes

    i didn't think highly of myself and if anyone wanted to connect i assumed i should be grateful and reciproactd. never really thought much about my own needs or even rights to have happy and healthy friendships

    It is more complex when the people are in your own family, as you tend to give them more chances, wantig to have a relationship

    I'm a softie like that, I'd love to have a warm and happy family
    instead i have a cold and clumsy, selfish family, who constantly forget i exist. yet because of that childlike need for family, i've overlooked at times their abusive ways just to have peace

    I will try out those threads, thanks for including!

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  19. ecomama
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    4 July 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Dear Sleepy21

    I've read back quite a bit and see the struggles you've had in the past. (I always try to put things in the past tense so as to free minds up a bit for the endless possibilities in the future).

    You know a lot of my family background.

    My brother and I had a very difficult 20y. Sometimes I wouldn't see or hear from him for almost all year and he lives a few streets away.

    He is only now seemingly "coming around" to want a more caring relationship. As in the past few weeks.

    Something I realized about a month ago was that I wasn't doing the "seek first to understand and then to be understood". So I tried it. This is from Stephen Covey's work.

    When we're feeling REALLY overwhelmed by our own MH issues, we can't often see past ourselves to want to know more about those who are "close" to us and what they're going through. When I find out they feel pressure from this or that, I sometimes THINK omg I would give my right arm to have those as my worst issues! lol.
    I seldom say that though.
    But it is what it is to them.
    I'm sure plenty of people have thought the same about my situations but have never said.

    I just wanted to share a strategy that has helped heal my relationship with my brother.

    Lots of love EM

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  20. Sleepy21
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    4 July 2020

    Hi Em

    I appreciate this so much. I feel very understood from this....
    I do struggle with that for sure. I also feel like a lot of people have it better than me (they don't... but when i was suicidal... well, didn't think too straight....)

    Small things felt like they were saying "you're a failure" - i remember i ordered something online for my apartment spent a lot of money on it, not returnable, it was way way too big. I sat there with my oversized furniture and cried for four days. I was like - you mess up everything (it was just my parents voice...) I thought everyone else was capable and functioning well

    I can't actually believe once I opened up my eyes to see the pain and struggle others are going through... I had to get down off my own painful perch and see it.

    I try to help others now and it makes me feel a bit better. I haven't really taken that appraoch to my brother, but I should... I know he has struggles but haven't a clear picture of what they are.
    They aren't the same as mine, but I imagine he has some.
    I'm sorry it's been so up and down with ur brother too - I do remember a lot fo what you described about the divisions in your family and how you fought to make your way to a peaceful place. It's endless, isn't it. And here you are raising your children with love and able to connect to your brother now.

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  21. white knight
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    4 July 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy and Em

    I used to drive 100,000km a year in a car. Occasionally I’d get pinned for speeding no matter how hard I tried not to speed. Then I changed my approach. If I accepted that I would get one fine a year regardless of my effort I’d be better off. So I allowed for that and sure enough if a fine from a camera was in the letter box it didn’t upset me. A bonus good feeling was going 12 months without a fine.

    So Sleepy, in terms of your over sized purchase we all make mistakes. It will be hard for you to develop the acceptance level required that would see you say 1/cry for 30 minutes only then 2/ advertise the product for sale and 3/ decide not to purchase from a non returnable seller for expensive items. Those strategies will lead to moving on from the mistake.

    Some say cognitive therapy is useful. For me it wasn’t however where it benefits people like yourself is to develop the areas of your emotional side that didn’t mature when younger. For 40 years I played catch up eg at 17yo I joined the RAAF but emotionally s 12yo. At 31yo I joined Pentridge jail as a warden but emotionally a 16yo. But when I reached 50yo I was as a 50yo.

    I also, apart from bipolar have dysthymia. A constant low depression remedied by a small amount of anti depressants. The main symptom is over crying. Use search for

    dysthymia

    I hope that helps. I’m enjoying this conversation.

    TonyWK

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  22. broken568
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    10 July 2020 in reply to white knight

    Hi TonyWK,

    I’ve just been reading thru this thread and your last post spoke to me. I just wanted to say thanks.

    1 person found this helpful
  23. white knight
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    10 July 2020 in reply to broken568

    Thanks Broken 568

    much appreciated.

    TonyWK

    2 people found this helpful
  24. ecomama
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    10 July 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Dearest Sleepy21

    I hear you. Tonight I've felt low and when that happens some of my past failures come up to make me feel worse - tonight I also know what to do to make myself feel better.

    Sometimes I want to shake my brain and say "Why are you SO cruel to yourself?" lol.

    I would NEVER be as cruel to someone else as I am to myself, WHY even go there?
    I know it's trauma and I know its MH issues.

    It's really time we both forgave ourselves for what? IDK maybe having ridiculously high standards on OURSELVES. If you were my IRL friend and you told me about ordering too big online stuff I would hug you and say IT'S OKAY! Online ordering wrong stuff is a shared human experience - remember? I watched installation men put 3 appliances into my kitchen yesterday and just kept saying "I hope they fit, I hope they fit" lol. They just about did. Almost.

    eff word what our parents would say. People who've hurt us don't get to judge us AFTER we left them or are NC etc. Nope. No way. Delete - replace.

    No one's capable 100% of the time and no one functions 100% of the time - that would be INHUMAN or unhuman lol IDK you get it. Sh** happens.

    It's what we DO with it that counts. Turn it into fertilizer is what I've tried to do.

    You're great Sleepy21. You're super intelligent, thoughtful and articulate. You've been at the lowest point and you're reaching upwards always. You are HEALING.

    When we're super stressed we find it so hard to compartmentalize our minds. So when our brothers drop in to see us (and even that is a BIGGIE for me atm) then they WANT to have a relationship with us.
    That's love.

    One of my adult children decided to say "How's your life going?" EVERY time anyone calls her. Because she found her life was so wrought with issues that she would bombard them immediately. SO even when someone texts or calls asking how I am now, I do the same. ASK how THEY are first and insist upon it.

    I had virtually no one left. I felt far too anxious to reach out. I didn't want to be scolded or rejected.

    I made a conscious effort to call one long lost friend per week whilst I've been on leave and started the conversation like above. Every person has been so grateful I contacted them, I was SO grateful they were the lovely people I knew them as. No rejection. Some even say "I love you" at the end of the call now too.
    That's love.

    Love EM

    2 people found this helpful
  25. broken568
    broken568 avatar
    55 posts
    10 July 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Dear Ecomama,

    you’re so right... we can’t be 100% all the time. I just wish I could be 100% come of the time, or even 75% occasionally...

    1 person found this helpful
  26. ecomama
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    10 July 2020 in reply to white knight

    Hi TonyWK

    I love hearing your perspective on things and your journey and your remedies! lol. Thankyou for having such generosity of heart and time. Your posts and discussion really help me.

    I think when we've been raised by others, and maybe married some too WHOM have relentlessly high standards then we can put that on ourselves. Btw the bolded print is a characteristic of narcissism.
    So a lot of our suffering can be in the wake of narcissistic abuse.

    YOU know from an ex wife, Sleepy knows and I know.

    The comments "I'll never be (insert stupidly high standard) enough" and "I'm a failure" derive from all that easily if left without check.
    I've thought the first a lot but seldom the latter. I replaced the latter with "I've married some a** holes lol!"

    In reference to the friendship / relationship stuff; I think when we have a crisis of whatever kind, it is then that we find out who our REAL friends are. I call this my "Bushfire analogy". Sure there was a bushfire and sometimes a hell of a lot of beautiful things (or what we THOUGHT were beautiful) are gone, but ALWAYS all the dead wood gets burnt. Same with friendships after a crisis.

    Lord sometimes the landscape looks like this unearthly wasteland. Like our lives.

    But THEN with the rain comes regrowth. We see GREEN starting to come and we can rejoice that not EVERYTHING was killed. The strongest and healthiest trees survived. Little shoots of green. These strong trees beginning to show life again are JUST like the relationships we thought had died.

    Some needed to.

    Others hung in there with us, even if we didn't know it, and are there on the other side. THESE are the strong ones.

    There's a saying that comes to mind... "Those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind".
    I also like... "Those who love me know me and those who don't, who cares".
    My grandfather's favourite… "Here's to those that wish me well and those who don't can go to hell"
    Lol he had lots of friends too lol.

    Love EM

    3 people found this helpful
  27. broken568
    broken568 avatar
    55 posts
    10 July 2020 in reply to ecomama
    “Those who mind don't matter and those that matter don't mind" - the wonderful and wise Dr Seuss
    2 people found this helpful
  28. Sleepy21
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    14 July 2020 in reply to ecomama
    Hi Broken568 :)
    Tony thank you for sharing your story regarding the parking tickets, it's still making me smile :)
    It's very true. We all make mistakes, it's part of life. That voice hitting and harming us internally for doing so... as EM said --- unrelenting standards. I've actually heard of that twice this year, I think it's a schema therapy concept, associating happiness with performance. Gosh I do have that voice inside me that equates working hard and being outwardly perfect as being successful.
    I made a mistake with the furniture and then I learnt from it and continued to live my life... Most things can be fixed and changed.
    Tony I like the way you can be honest about yourself and can see how far you've come. It's a sign of beautiful healing.
    Thanks Em for wrapping me up wtih warmth with your empathetic reply. :)
    2 people found this helpful
  29. white knight
    Community Champion
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    8 September 2020 in reply to Sleepy21
    Hi Sleepy

    Re: "Tony thank you for sharing your story regarding the parking tickets, it's still making me smile:"

    Its a way if being gentle with ourselves- realistic expectations
    TonyWK
    1 person found this helpful
  30. ecomama
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    8 September 2020 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy21

    I'm always here for a big looooong, long, no longer than that..... HUG.
    And I'll let go last lol.

    Unrelenting high standards are a rat to get rid of.
    Moving on from this is a very hard trek.

    Finding ourselves, our own selves, is the most beautiful place to be in.

    You've helped me alot to do this, this year Sleepy21, thankyou.

    Love EM

    2 people found this helpful

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