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Topic: Double life

  1. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    20 September 2018
    It’s hard to know where to start. First of all, I’m a 35 year old gay man who came out to his wife about one year ago, just prior to our 6th attempt at IVF (8 years of trying). I still don’t think I’ve been able to move past that conversation, which was fairly traumatic for my wife to say the least. Not because of my sexuality, but because she thought I was leaving her. We met at the age of 19, and have been married for 11 years, together 16. The key driver to come out to my wife was due to a beautiful man that I had met, who I had developed strong feelings for. Like most of the stories on here, I identify with having strong feelings about my wife also, as a best friend, confidant and partner. I think the reason I haven’t left (and the reason why she hasn’t) is because of the shared feeling of not being able to live without each other. The idea of divorce terrifies me as well I must admit. To add further complications, we now have a 5 week old son, who I love very dearly, especially after so many years of trying. Leaving his side even for a night makes me very anxious. So here I am... a new father who happens to be married and gay, and in love with a man and a woman (in different ways), but unable to leave either of them. What do I hope to achieve on here? Clarity and direction I suppose, some kindred spirits and a way to move forward out of this mess. Also worth noting that yes, I’ve spoken to psychologists over the years, some better than others... but all of them expensive!
    1 person found this helpful
  2. marcus_c
    marcus_c avatar
    92 posts
    20 September 2018 in reply to Creutz
    Hi Creutz, congratulations to you and your wife on your new son. What an exciting time! But also pretty challenging for you. You've said you're hoping for some clarity and direction, and I hope you can get some of that by chatting here. Here's what I would suggest for a start: do what is best for you, your son, and your wife, and try not to get caught up in other people's expectations of what you *should* be doing or running your life. You haven't yet gone into detail about how your wife and the man in your life feel about this whole situation, but (provided this works for everyone) there is no reason why you have to get divorced at this stage, or move out. There is nothing set in stone that says we need to have one person in life that provides everything for us. You and your wife are best friends and have a child together, which you can provide a stable parenting environment for. It's only society's expectations that say you and your wife should also be romantic partners. It's more complicated, obviously, but provided the three of you can come to an arrangement that works for everyone, why should you have to leave either of them? It may not work out that way, but in working out how to move forward, try to think of this whole situation in terms of what everyone's needs are, and not what their expected roles are. Does that make sense?
    4 people found this helpful
  3. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    20 September 2018 in reply to marcus_c
    Thank you Marcus. What you have said has really helped me a lot, and is probably more useful than 99% of the insight provided by counsellors etc. A number of people have suggested this course of action, just not in such a clear way. I know a few things for sure - I’m certainly not unhappy in my marriage with my wife. I love her... but I’m gay. She has clearly indicated that she loves me also and doesn’t want to leave. I have told my wife about “the man in my life” and she knows I have feelings for him, but I’m not sure that she would tolerate a situation where I’m spending time with both of them. It’s very difficult. Is this fair on her? Would it prevent her from moving on in her life? However she’s a grown woman, and even though she knows I’m gay she has chosen to stay with me and to have a child with me. I’m just worried that there is no going back if I have a conversation with her about wanting to pursue a relationship with both of them (one romantic and the other as a best friend). Once I say it I can’t take it back, and it may do irreparable damage to my marriage. I do love the man I have met very much (and have been seeing him for more than a year now) and even though my brain has told me to be logical and to let him go, I just can’t. He is everything I could have wanted in a man, and he has been by my side through everything... the pregnancy etc. I just can’t bare to lose him. He knows everything, but not my intention to stay married. I think he would like to get married someday and has mentioned many times that he thinks I’m living a double life.
  4. Esti67
    Esti67 avatar
    77 posts
    23 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hi Creutz,

    Welcome to these forums. Firstly, i think Marcus has given you the perfect reply. I am in a situation very similar to yours but about 15 years on. I outed myself to my lovely husband about 1 month or so ago now after finally realising that i am a lesbian. I am 51 and like you have been with my husband since age 16. I had developed very strong feelings for a friend but continue to struggle with the love i have for him and the hurt that i am causing him, as like your wife, he is my best friend and I cannot imagine him not being in my life. At the same time I have started sleeping with my friend and my husband now knows and we have an "arrangement". I'm not sure how sustainable this is but for now it works, i don't feel like i need to sneak off, he's glad its her as he knows she is kind. To echo Marcus and Birdy (who added to my story on another thread), there are lots of ways to have relationships and it doesn't really matter what anyone thinks. I would like to add though, you need to do what makes you happy. In my situation I feel that this arrangement is only short term as i would like to out myself properly and this holding pattern is a compromise that im not entirely happy with but for now it reassures my husband that we will always be in eachothers lives. I dont sleep with my husband although he would like us to which is a bit tricky but despite this there is a lot of intimacy, cuddles and love. You have a very young son and emotions are probably very heightened at the moment so a huge decision should probably be shelved temporarily. It is a difficult situation you are in but again, i would like to emphasize, do what is right for you and if your relationship with your wife is good and you are both respectful it will all work out. Good luck, i really feel for you.

    E

    2 people found this helpful
  5. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    23 September 2018 in reply to Esti67

    Thanks Esti67. It’s hard isn’t it. The content battle that you fight with yourself... a comfortable life vs coming out. Risks in both approaches. I think I’m just afraid of losing everything. I’m not close with my family (although they would certainly still judge me for what I’ve done from their high horse position) but I’m close with my wife’s family. I’m also scared of losing my son .. especially if she handles it all badly and decided to move back to her hometown. I just have no idea of how she would react. We watched a show on tv today called 9-1-1.. where a husband comes out as gay, has kids and has already started a relationship with another man, but also wanted to maintain a relationship with his wife. The wife called it “having his cake and earring it to”. She was in pain and thought her husband was selfish, and asked for a divorce. I just couldn’t believe that we were sitting there watching a show with characters facing identical issues to mine. My wife asked me if I think this will happen to us one day!! I just palmed it off. She also said that the husband was being selfish. So there we go! I know how she would feel now if I told her about my boyfriend. Made me very afraid and upset. Do you know anyone who has dealt with this situation long term and had it work for them? I’m losing faith in this path as an option ie. staying married and having a “guy friend” at the same time.. is it really selfish?? I just don’t know anymore.

    m

  6. marcus_c
    marcus_c avatar
    92 posts
    24 September 2018 in reply to Creutz
    Hi Creutz, it's a tough one. Making it work relies on both of you being pragmatic about the situation. I can understand the 'having the cake and eating it too' comment from your wife's perspective, but it works both ways. She's aware that your heart is actually elsewhere, but you're terrified of leaving because you don't want to lose your son. Is keeping someone emotionally imprisoned really a great basis for a relationship? Such an open arrangement would also mean that she is free to have a romantic partner also, it's not just you having the cake.

    I hear that you're afraid of a lot of things, of losing your son, of your family's judgment, of her family's judgment. I also hear that you appear to have found a man that you're very happy with, and that up until now, he has tolerated the situation while fairly assessing it as a 'double life'. That's a big sacrifice for him to be making, too.

    It may be that you can't have everything, Creutz, and that is really tough. I would just say again, try and come back to what feels right for you and not the expectations and desires of others. They won't be the ones having to potentially look back with regret on lost opportunities and happiness when they're 80.
    4 people found this helpful
  7. Esti67
    Esti67 avatar
    77 posts
    24 September 2018 in reply to marcus_c

    Wow Marcus, again, you have hit the nail on the head. Creutz, we are both in very difficult situations. I would agree that in the end you need to do what is right for you. Some people do use this arrangement and it works for them but you both have yo be very evolved. My regret is that i didnt out myself earlier however we have lived a nice life together and i am grateful for that. I found that my feelings had intensified to the point that my sexuality ( and the other woman ) was all i was thinking of. I was miserable, i found it hard to concentrate and i wasn't sleeping. I did this for 6 months. It became obvious to my husband and children that something was wrong. Thats when i outed myself. I feel terrible that i have basically transferred my pain to my husband and whilst i feel a bit better, the occasional conversations we have incidentally like you have described remind me that this is incredibly painful for him. In terms of the arrangement, this is very new territory for us its only just started. Whilst my husband says he is ok, hes actually not, has more headaches and goes for long walks by himself. Honestly Cruetz, im not sure how this will go as for me, i feel its important to out myself and not live a lie and what we are currently doing , keeps me closetted because i know most people will think an open relationship is a bit weird , especially in the circles i move in. I think it comes down to what is important to you - your identity as a gay man or keeping everyone happy. For me, im taking my time with this and am prepared to wear whatever my husband dishes out. I know we will be ok eventually but it will need lots of communication. I will probably separate in time but this situation is a way of the three of us adjusting gradually to what is probably inevitable. I too am living a double life and its anything but comfortable. Please be kind to yourself.

    E

    1 person found this helpful
  8. Esti67
    Esti67 avatar
    77 posts
    24 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    And i dont think its selfish but at some point you may have to make a call as your wife may not be able to reconcile that you have 2 people you love equally which is understandable.

    E

  9. Johnny_11
    Johnny_11 avatar
    28 posts
    28 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hi Creutz

    I'm in the same position as you. I came out to my wife 12 months ago, and had been living a double life for 3 years prior to that. We've been together 20 years, and have young kids as well.

    When I came out to her, I expected that we would separate, but after talking it through we decided to try to make it work.

    I've agreed to be monogamous, and if I decide that I can't be monogamous I will tell her and we will need to work it out. She doesn't an open relationship, so if I want to be with a man, currently it will most likely mean that we will separate.

    Ive chatted to a few guys through an online support group, and most say that you should not make any decisions for the first 12 months of coming out to your wife. Also your wife is feeling very insecure, if you are want to have an open type relationship, she is going to need to feel that you are 100% committed to her emotionally. I have see examples of these relationships work, but its a slow process, it can take years, and you need a lot of honest communication and boundaries in place.

    I also speak to a therapist that specialises in these types of relationships and helps men negotiate them, but like you said, he is exy. Let me know if you want his details.

    There's no set path for people in our situation. Society tells us straight this way, gay that way, but I'm finding more and more that there are other options.

    John

    2 people found this helpful
  10. Only I know
    Only I know avatar
    214 posts
    28 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hey John

    that's remarkable that your wife is okay and wanted to work through it. When I told my wife of 20years - 5 months ago - she just wanted to bury her head in the sand and wanted to remain as we were, but I knew that that would not work. I knew that I needed to explore my feelings - having never done so in my life (I'd been monogamous the entire time) - and I felt that possibly in 12mths it would start to play on her mind and we would eventually get torn apart by it, and our kids with it.

    I wanted to wait to make any other big decisions, but she wanted me to move out and explore things - find myself so to speak, so now I'm just 5 weeks away from moving into my own place. We are really good, there's a lot of love still and she is my best mate and fully supportive, but when I move out, I will only be "out of the closet" for 6 mths. It terrifies me, living alone, and even exploring.

    I too have a great psychologist, who is gay himself and very experienced in this, so going to see him really helps.

    I have joined an lgbt groups through Team Melbourne, just to start getting out and meeting people and making new friends - expanding the social circle. I'm typically a very shy person and find it hard to talk to new people face to face unless there is something we have in common (and something I feel experienced to talk about!).

    I wish you all the best of fortune, and hope your situation works out for you, whatever you decide. I know that my life has changed - I think (and hope) for the better, but only time will tell. I have awesome kids, great friends and an accepting family - so all should be good - right?

    And yes you are right - I too am finding more and more options out there now that I am getting involved with the LGBT community.

    cheers

    Darren

    1 person found this helpful
  11. Johnny_11
    Johnny_11 avatar
    28 posts
    29 September 2018 in reply to Only I know

    Hi Darren

    I'm finding my wife is a remarkable person. When I came out to her I was ready to move out, only because I thought that was the only path, but I'm glad we decided to get some counselling and see what happens. I've been trying to open up and express my feelings more, but its difficult when you've spent your entire life trying to hide this part of you.

    My therapist works with a number of men in this situation, some are monogamous and some are in open marriages, but they stay married and live in the same house as their wives. He says people just don't talk about these types of arrangements because they are outside of society's norm, and people don't understand.

    Right now I'm starting to explore my gay side but in a non sexual way, I really don't understand what it means either lol, but things like trying to make friends with other gay people, not editing myself to act "straight" etc. It's hard to make new friends in your mid 40s, let alone specific gay ones, but it's early days, so I'll see how it goes.

    You have a lot of support, and most importantly a supportive wife. I think this will really help you.

    I know you're feeling unsure about this new stage in your life, its something you've never done before and probably never thought you would, its outside your "comfort zone" but I think you will learn a lot about yourself, and grow as a person.

    When I started exploring my sexuality, I was cheating on my wife and I'm not proud of it, but I found that I was able to connect to these men at a different level than I would with my usual friends, and I'm not referring to the sex, lol. I mean, men our age all grew up when it was generally not ok to be gay, and when you see that part of you in other men, its a strong connection.

    I'm keen to hear how you go, I'm excited for you and a bit envious...

    Cheers
    John

    1 person found this helpful
  12. C4
    C4 avatar
    107 posts
    29 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hi guys I’m actually a bit envious that you got to stay with your wives even for a little while mine left that night and never came back I was devastated at the time I tried to do my best as a husband and friend but it wasn’t enough. We’re friendly now but at the time she was angry and hurt . It was hard being by myself whilst everything was getting sorted out and coming to terms what I’d done and the consequences to follow. I wasn’t ready for the fall and ready to come out even at all I didn’t think I was gay only having sexual thoughts about men I didn’t know what it meant for me . I tried so hard to fix myself and my marriage I forgot about the only one that lost the most me . It’s so hard to start again from scratch it’s not what I had planned for my life I was prepared to stay married I just wanted the thoughts to go away and the burden off my shoulders . Of course it wasn’t realistic for us to be together as I wasn’t sexually attracted to her . I never cheated on her and I didn’t want to do it to her even though I did want to know what it was like to be with a man . I guess I was lucky there was no children involved or property to split like you guys have that would make it more difficult to make a final decision on things . I want to connect with a man as well on an emotional level and not just sex I guess I want what I had with my wife . I can understand Darren’s concern about living alone after all these years as most of us had a marriage of nearly 20 years that’s along time and to start again is scary but worth it in the long run . There’s so much to talk about but I won’t bore you all just to say that I’ll be here if you need me .

    3 people found this helpful
  13. Only I know
    Only I know avatar
    214 posts
    29 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hey John, when I told my wife I wasn't ready to move out, not prepared - nothing. I was in such a low state, and I don't know what I would have done had it gone poorly. I'm not grumbling that I have to move out soon, it's just the uncertainty, the being alone etc.

    I know how you feel, I'm 47 and opening up about being gay is very hard - you become so well practised at hiding that being open now flies in the face of all of your previous beliefs (and values).

    I too am now exploring my gay side (also not in a sexual way - that is a while off yet I think). I mentioned before that I looked up Team Melbourne - on there is a whole bunch of LGBT groups that you can join to meet people. I have joined a walking/running group that walk every Saturday morning, it's a really nice way to start a Saturday morning. I don't know where you are, but there is one in each capital city if you google "TEAM and the city". Definitely recommend if you want to get out there and widen your social circle amongst like minded people, and you are right - it is VERY hard to make new friends in your mid 40's - but you need to force yourself to do it otherwise you'll go nowhere and this time next year you will still be doing what you are now and probably not happy.

    I'm not judging you or anyone about exploring whilst you are married. God knows, how many times I wanted to experience intimacy with a man, but I was so much in love with my wife (and still am) that I just couldn't do it. Maybe I just never had the actual opportunity or confidence, maybe if I had - well who knows?

    I am nervous about being on my own, but excited too. I have kids in the picture as well, so need to be mindful of that.

    I hadn't posted for a little while, just wasn't in the mood! but I do check here every day. There are some wonderful people here - like C4 (Craig), BlueSimon (Tim) and a few other regular posters and we've all been through or going through similar experiences and roughly the same age, so it's nice to be here and chatting away to people who understand.

    Hope you have a great weekend, the grand final is on but I'm finding it boring as my team isn't there!

    Cheers

    Daz

    1 person found this helpful
  14. Only I know
    Only I know avatar
    214 posts
    29 September 2018 in reply to C4

    Hey Craig, hope you are well and things aren't too bad. I think I must've missed you saying before that your wife left the day you told her. That's really sad for you, and must've been really difficult and your world must've come crashing down around you, something that you wouldn't have been prepared for. At least she has come back into your life, but still, it was a time that you needed supporting. It makes me really appreciate how I have it now, and by the time I do move out, I would have had 6 months to get used to the idea.

    Funny though, I'm not used to paying bills, getting services connected etc - my wife did all of that - I just financed it! I now have to learn how to budget, ensure bills get paid and manage the funds all on my own! Well, I'm a big boy, so I'm sure I'll learn it! hopefully just not the hard way!

    cheers

    Daz

    1 person found this helpful
  15. C4
    C4 avatar
    107 posts
    29 September 2018 in reply to Only I know
    Thanks Darren for your reply you know I always used to think it would be easier if we’d een divorced years before this happened but when it did happen I wasn’t prepared for the loneliness that was to come but yes she is friendly but has a partner so I can’t get too involved in her life anymore. When we were together I organised all the utilities and bills and she paid them and before I met her I lived by myself so I know what it’s like to live by myself but I still miss her company as we were best friends and I lost that . It’s like everyone has moved on and I’m stuck in limbo some days but it’s hard to make friends as I’m pretty reserved and shy until I’m comfortable with people. I’m glad you’ve made new friends also as it will make the transition to moving out easier. My group has lunches once a month so it’s nice to meet up for a chat but it’s hard to socialise with them as everyone is busy . Craig
    1 person found this helpful
  16. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hi John,

    You really are in a very similar situation to me.

    I’m at my parents place as I’m typing this, with my 7 week old son and my wife, with my sister and her kids also visiting. They’re just so in love with my son, and it breaks my heart to think that this could all change. What happens if I tell my wife I want a “second relationship” with the guy I’m in love, and she can’t handle it and wants to separate? My family wouldn’t see my son much at all. He’s just so young... and we tried for 9 years to have a child. To make matters more complicated, the guy i’ve met (who has been waiting patiently in the wings for more than a year and seeing me very sporadically) has said that he’s had enough and that things have to change very quickly or he’ll leave me. It’s a lot of pressure. I love him so so much though, and I could bare to lose him. Nor can I bare losing my wife. I suppose I have 2 courses of action:

    1. Have a discussion with my wife this week about wanting to have a second, separate relationship with the guy I’ve met but stay married. This would be a very difficult conversation, and she may choose to leave me and I would risk losing a relationship with my son; or

    2. Break things off with the guy I’ve met (however I just can’t imagine this - I have very strong feelings for him) and continue with my marriage as is. I do think I would always miss the guy I’ve met for the rest of my life though.

    I think I have so much to lose with both options... but especially option 1.

  17. Johnny_11
    Johnny_11 avatar
    28 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to C4

    Hi Craig

    That would've have been very difficult for you, opening up to your wife and then she just leaves. It would've been difficult for both of you, I'm sure she just didn't know how to handle the situation, and did what she thought was what she was suppose to do.

    I think a lot of wives in this situation will also feel "judged" if they stay in the marriage, not only by other people (if they find out) but they probably judge themselves. I know my wife struggles with this, she knows if she was to tell her friends and family, they would tell her to leave me, but for her that didn't feel like the right thing to do.

    I'm also reserved and find it hard to make friends, a few years ago I was very lonely and purposely put myself out there to meet new friends. I joined a gym that did team training, and would go to the same class everyday, its usually the same people in the class each day, and being daily theres more opportunities to chat than something that is weekly or monthly. I felt awkward starting up conversations, but learnt that the awkwardness only lasts a couple of minutes, and the more you do it the easier it gets. And I'd just find stupid things to ask about like 'where's you get your runners? I need a new pair' etc... Most people are friendly enough, you just got to make the first move...

    When I was going through the stressful period with my wife, I left that gym and have lost contact with those friends. I have a tendency to cut people out, and recently my therapist advise that its a trait of gay people, something to do with shame, and cutting people out in fear that they will reject you. I think this rings true for me.

    You said you feel like youre stuck in limbo? in what way? because your wife has a new partner and you haven't moved on?

    Hugs
    John

  18. Johnny_11
    Johnny_11 avatar
    28 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Only I know

    Hi Daz

    I checked out Team Sydney, thanks, it's something I'd be interested in down the track, I don't think my wife would be comfortable with it just now. Also, being married I think I would feel like an outsider. Thats something I struggle with, I don't I fit in anywhere. I'm an outsider with straight guys, and an outsider with gay guys...

    Our relationship therapist advised that we should only discuss my sexuality in a serious manner, we shouldn't joke and make light of it, because it was a serious issue in our relationship. This didn't really sit well with me, or both our personalities. My personal therapist didn't agree with it either, he said we should be open about it, and I should be free to explore it with my wife. So we've started to do this, and its been so refreshing to just be able to talk and joke about with her.

    I hope you don't mind me asking, but whats holding you back from exploring your sexuality in a sexual way?

    Hugs
    John

    1 person found this helpful
  19. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hi Only I Know,

    You said “I know that my life has changed - I think (and hope) for the better, but only time will tell. I have awesome kids, great friends and an accepting family - so all should be good - right?”

    You’ve hit the nail on the head. I struggle with this. Yes I’m gay, but I’m not unhappy in my current situation, really. I have a young son, a wife who has chosen to stay with me despite my sexuality... should I really risk blowing all of this up? Am I risking too much? Will it be worth the stress?


    1 person found this helpful
  20. Johnny_11
    Johnny_11 avatar
    28 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hi Creutz

    Mate, I really feel for you. You must be feeling very alone and stressed at a time in your life when you should be feeling joy.

    Your guy seems to be understanding but does he need to put this pressure on your right now? Do you not have a third option to ask him for some more time, tell him you really want him in your life but you have so much pressure at the moment, and it's not the right time to talk to your wife...???

    One thing that you haven't mentioned is how your guy feels about you staying married and having a closed-loop relationship with him? have you had this conversation with him? Is he happy to share you with your wife, if your wife agrees?

    I was reading one of your previous posts where you were watching a tv show and your wife asked "do you think this will happen to us?" To me it sounded like she wanted to open up the conversation, she wanted to test the boundaries of your marriage.... did you think that?

    Honestly, I think right now if not the right time to have this conversation with your wife. You have a new born, she's probably not sleeping, having to feed every couple of hours, her hormones all over the place etc. You bring up this conversation, she's going to think you want to abandon her when she needs you the most.

    If you are going to have this convo, then from my experience and people I have chatted to, your wife needs to know that you are 100% committed to her emotionally, and she is the first priority in your life. When the wife feels insecure, then its a lot of drama and doesn't work.

    And take baby steps, instead of saying you want to see this guy on the side, say you want to discuss your sexuality and how she feels about it, or about you exploring it, not sure if these are the right words, only you know.

    Please reach out if you need anything, so many of us have gone through similar situations, you don't need to be alone.

    Hugs
    John

    1 person found this helpful
  21. Only I know
    Only I know avatar
    214 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11

    Hey John, glad the Team site may help. It has me, I'll be looking up others in a few more weeks, when in my own place. I wouldn't worry about feeling like an outsider, in my experience with the group I've joined, I don't discuss my home life too much. Some have taken a bit of an interest in knowing me, they know I'm separating and only "out" for 5 months, but I don't really talk too much about it. It's really just like going to any other new group, you don't go around advertising your life.

    I don't mind you asking why I haven't explored anything sexually. I don't want to sound like I've taken a high moral approach to my life, but the fact that I didn't explore anything during marriage means that I won't allow myself to explore whilst I'm still living in the same house. I'll wait until I move out. I have 2 kids-a 16yo son and 10yo daughter. I can't stand the thought that they would wonder where I am and what I'm doing. They may anyway, but they wont be waiting for me to walk back in the door.

    Besides, it frightens me. I guess I feel like an 18yo virgin again. No confidence etc. I also don't think anyone would want to be with me, I don't think of myself as attractive or appealing to anyone. I'm carrying excess weight, and I guess have a low self esteem. My goal when I move out is to lose weight and get used to being out on my own. Get myself right and in a place where I'm happy with who I am. I'm not into casual hook-ups, it doesn't appeal to me at all. Again, not that I'm judging, it just doesn't do anything for me. I get that things may change after I move out - who knows what will come my way? I'm leaving myself open to "going with the flow" - which incidentally flies against all of who I currently am - rigid, process driven, set in my ways. But I think that is a product of me needing to have my walls up around me for so long.

    I feel selfish for being a little excited by being out on my own, and the possibility of meeting someone and ACTUALLY experiencing something that I've only ever fantasised about. I know for sure though, that had I not gone down the path I'm currently on, I wouldn't be here in a year or so to even discuss it.

    I'm glad you are comfortable talking to your wife about it. You should do whatever feels right for both you and your wife. If you are reasonably happy with your current situation, then stick with that until you no longer are. If you've promised to not do anything with another guy whilst together, then stick to it.

    Daz

    1 person found this helpful
  22. Only I know
    Only I know avatar
    214 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hey Creutz, I guess that only you can decide whether it is worth it or not. Not ever being in love with anyone other than my wife, I don't know how this would effect you. I certainly understand how you feel though about letting her down, especially with a young child - achieved through IVF. Both of my kids were a product of IVF too, and it was an awful experience on both occasions we were successful, with 7 in between the 2 that weren't. It is a gruelling and punishing experience for both of you, but physically more for her. I know you'd feel that you owe it to her to stand by her.

    Not being with her though, wouldn't mean that you wouldn't be part of her or your son's lives. She already seems to care about you, and understand who you are. You may be selling her short. It may be just that she is afraid to raise your son on her own, but it needn't be that way. You may be fairly happy in your current situation, but it sounds like the guy you like isn't. I must admit, I can't blame him. But the bottom line is that you need to do what you think is right for you. If you do things for others, then you won't live the life that you were meant to. I've been down a very dark path that almost cost me everything, almost leaving my family without a husband and dad. I would only say to you that it is way to easy to take that path, but please don't let it.

    Just take a deep breath and consider all the options that are best for you, and then make an educated decision, and be happy with that decision no matter what the cost.

    have a good week.

    Daz

    1 person found this helpful
  23. C4
    C4 avatar
    107 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Johnny_11
    I guess I’m a bit jealous of her moving on so quickly and finding someone where as I now have to start again from scratch dealing with my sexuality at my age 46 living on my own with not many friends and scared of the future. It’s like being a teenager again unsure of myself and worried what people will judge me for being who I am . It’s hard when you loose your identity that you’ve had for so long and sexuality you thought was right and self worth. I suppose I was worried about starting again and finding someone else which is scary as I had a relationship for 20 years . It’s been 16 months now and I’m getting used to it but it’s ok I’ll be alright thanks for caring . Craig
    1 person found this helpful
  24. Esti67
    Esti67 avatar
    77 posts
    30 September 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hey Creutz,

    Can i clarify something? Does your wife know you have been regularly seeing another guy or that you are gay and would like to? When i broached the subject with my husband his words were that he doesn't want to lose me and if this is what it takes to keep me he will do it. (both he and the woman i am seeing are in favour of an open relationship) moreso than me actually. The two people i love also know and like eachother. These are early days tho and subject to change as things develop. We talked about what wouldn't change, that we are both parents, grandparents and have a long history with eachother's extended families which was helpful. I think also whatever path you take you do have rights with your son.

    I know you are fearful of losing everything and i completely understand that fear because its one i share with you. I fear my children ( now adults) will judge me badly and i will lose them should i end up in time with the woman i am seeing. My hope is that whilst being angry/ betrayed they will also remember that i have been and will always be their mum who has been a good mum at that. Maybe your family will see this in time after they get over the initial shock and hurt. You sound really paralyzed at the moment which is probably playing havoc with your mental health and ability to function. That is not good for anyone. To echo the words in one of your posts -" i'm certainly not unhappy in my marriage, i love my wife but I'm gay," that resonated with me and through all my reading in trying to sort through this stuff in my head it became clear to me that if this is who i am, it won't go away. I might be able to shelve it for a while, but it will come back. You sound like a lovely man and I'm sure that your family will see that even if they don't understand the choices you make. Sometimes we don't even understand why we do the things we do, we only know what feels right.

    I hope your man takes the pressure off you to decide, ( kind of unfair of him at this particular time) its hard enough with a 7 week old baby. You probably want this sorted out so you can move forward but take your time with this and look after your mental health as these are very big decisions you are making.

    Hugs

    E

    1 person found this helpful
  25. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to Esti67

    Thank you Daz, John and Esti. I got quite emotional reading your messages. I appear calm and collected on the surface, which is what my family sees, however I’m just a mess inside and barely keeping it together. This has been on my mind constantly for almost 2 years & I’m tired.

    John - my guy is uneasy about me staying married. He feels that she will dictate his life in the future ie. when he sees me, not being able to marry me and also not able to make simple financial decisions. I know that he loves me with all his heart.. he has stuck around for longer than a year waiting to be with me. He wants to meet my friends and family though which is tricky. How do I explain who he is? Sometimes I think he deserves an uncomplicated life because he has so much to offer and is so beautiful. I love him immensely.

    Daz - so true with IVF. Was very tough, and I think because it took so long, the attention from friends and family has been intense. This places great pressure on my decision. People would be devistated if they found out that we were breaking up. I’m the only son, and my family sees my son as the “continuation of the family name”. I couldnt imagine them not being able to spend Christmas’ and family events with him. I also love my in-laws very much and I’m close with them. You’re right that the guy I’m in love with isn’t happy.. but he has been by my side through the pregnancy and hardships, and I feel he is the only person who truly knows me.

    Esti - yes, my wife knows I’m gay. She found a conversation I had saved on my computer with a counsellor from QLife. In this conversation, I discussed how I felt, and that sometimes I wished that I was having a child with him and not her. However, she believes that I haven’t pursued things and that it isn’t as serious as it actually is ie. doesn’t know we’ve continued to see each other. During the TV show I was talking about earlier she said that she thinks it’s selfish to have 2 relationships and that the characters in the show should “choose one relationship”. This provided me with insight. So this has scared me a lot. My gut tells me that, like you, it would be an uneasy situation to pursue both relationships... but I can’t bare to lose either of them.

    My guy has reached the end of his patience though. He’s sick of not spending weekends and holidays with his “partner”’and not feeling integrated into my life, which is understandable.

    I need to make a decision soon, and stick to it in order to move forward.

    2 people found this helpful
  26. C4
    C4 avatar
    107 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to Creutz
    Hi Creutz I’m sorry your put in this predicament and will have to eventually chose . Whichever person you decide to be with the other will be devastated you must be beside yourself. I don’t know what I would do in your situation I read it with sadness for you as we don’t chose who we fall in love with or chose our sexuality it’s not fair on you or anyone of us in your situation. I understand the mental anguish your going through of knowing you want to tell your wife but knowing that it will devastate her if the truth got out . I used to look in the mirror every day and cry at the failure of a husband I thought I was I remember when I came out just going to work and holding it together was hard my life fell apart and everyone saw it . Just having to pull yourself together was hard but I wouldn’t change things now and when you decide on the best course for you and your wife it will become a lot easier for you both . I wish I could offer more support but just know I’m here as well if you need to talk ok . Craig
    1 person found this helpful
  27. Definitely Otherwise
    Definitely Otherwise avatar
    87 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to Creutz

    Hi Creutz,

    I’m the lesbian, female equivalent of your ‘beautiful man’ that has been left in the dust, after 18 months of being used and consumed by a married women, who separated from her passively controlling, unfulfilled husband, only to go running back to a man she told me she has never loved. Ever.

    She told me the love she felt was like a brother, that it is a ‘business marriage’, and that he will always be family, but that she has tried to leave him many times and been miserable for years.
    We kissed before she separated from her husband but I told her I didn’t want to sleep with her unless it was over with him, but I was her confidant, her support, her amigo, that something that was missing in her life……….

    I figured it out for myself that she had ran back to him. She was going to hide it from me, and continue stringing me along.
    That day was my birthday.

    I’m not a big drinker, but I didn’t move an inch from the seat I was sitting in all day at my kitchen table, and opened my first glass of wine at 9 o’clock in the morning and I think I must have gone all day and passed out. I was gutted.

    She was the first women I have truly loved. It was visceral with her.
    I went into shock, but now that time has passed details are filtering back and I’m left bewildered, asking myself if I knew her at all.

    In the end I just wasn’t worth it. She said to me once, “I don’t think I am strong enough to live as a lesbian”.
    I recommend you take a step back and slow down and get a counsellor or therapist. An independent 3rd party that you can talk to regularly. Regardless of what you do, you need emotional support outside of your family.
    Def

  28. marcus_c
    marcus_c avatar
    92 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to Creutz
    Hi Creutz, sounds like things are really coming to a head. I wanted to pick up on one little thing in your post, and I may be reading too much into things, but there may be something in it. When you said

    My guy has reached the end of his patience though. He’s sick of not spending weekends and holidays with his “partner”’and not feeling integrated into my life, which is understandable.

    Why did you put the quote marks around partner? Is it because you think he doesn't see it as a real relationship, or do you see it as somehow less legitimate than being married to a woman? Is this also perhaps why you find it so difficult to leave your wife, that you'll feel less legitimate as a man? There's no judgment in these questions, they are very common things to feel. But they may be affecting your decision making.
  29. Esti67
    Esti67 avatar
    77 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to Creutz

    You make some excellent points Creutz.

    It does sound like it's time due to your own mental health needs. You must be exhausted with all this. I would suggest that whoever you decide to be with, be clear about what you want, be kind and be respectful. Be prepared for the anger although in time when everyone has had some distance from the situation they will understand how hard its been for you. Don't beat yourself up about this, life is already hard enough and if you keep the focus on why you are doing this (that life is short and you deserve to be happy rather than living out your days as half a person and whoever you choose deserves all of you not half of you) Mostly, you deserve to be the best version of yourself. I'm sure the important people will eventually understand. They love you and the situation you are in is now no longer manageable. Its ok to put yourself first especially if it means that you are better when you are with them. We are much happier now that we are open about it but my husband doesn't know how deep my feelings run for the woman i am seeing so i too predict storms ahead. Sometimes you need short term pain to get what will eventually be happiness in the long term.

    I hope this works out for all of you

    E

  30. Creutz
    Creutz avatar
    11 posts
    1 October 2018 in reply to marcus_c

    Hi Marcus,

    Not intentional at all.. not sure why I did that actually. I don’t feel as though coming out as a gay man would make me any lesser of a man.

    1 person found this helpful

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