Hi Shelll, from what my yoga instructor explained, Legs up the wall pose helps to slow your body down and stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system (that’s hopefully the one that helps your body to relax - I often get their names mixed up!). It gives your body a chance to ease into rest and allows fluid and blood to drain back towards your heart (from standing/being upright all day). I do it on my bed at night for approx 5 minutes with my feet and legs against the headboard. Is that your understanding of what the pose does, Rose? Are there any other benefits?

Hey thanks for that

Hi Shelll

It looks like Fred explained it well. If you do a Google search you'll see various theories. Youtube gives good how to guides that where I found it too. It is certainly relaxing, slows everything down (thoughts, breathing etc). By the end of it you are able to feel more settled and ready for bed or the day. A cheap yoga mat is good for under the bottom if you are doing this on hard-floors as you may stay in this position for a while.

Hi Fred,

I'd say it is worth a GP visit because if it is a lack of melatonin your DR can assess a short term fix and you will potentially feel settled and be in routine again.

Until then yoga will at least make the restful nights a bit more accommodating. I have heard of weighted blankets to help but not tried first hand.

Hello Rose, Shell, Fred and everyone..

I have been reading...Well more like ears dropping...I am going to give that a try tonight...I listen to sleep stories..having someone reading to me about beautiful adventures, puts me to sleep...before I listen to one tonight I’m going to put my legs up for 5 minutes first..

Thank you..

Grandy

I’ve never actually had my melatonin levels tested. Neither my GP or Psychiatrists have ever suggested it. It certainly couldn’t hurt to get it checked. I would love it if the Drs could say “oh this is the cause of all your sleep problems” and then I could be fixed! Well, the sleep issues could be fixed at least.

I have a nephew and a friend who use weighted blankets and both noticed an increase in their sleep quality since they started using them. The only thing that stops me is that I have a dog who likes to sneak under the covers, as well as a cat who burrows under the covers on cold nights. I worry that a weighted blanket would be too heavy for their little bodies and could suffocate them or something horrible like that. I don’t actually know if that is possible, but I do remember hearing that they should not be used on young children for that reason. Has anyone had any experience with weighted blankets and pets?

Thankyou Rose

Hi Grandy👋

Hi people .

Fred ironically then bc l can't stand too heavier doonas or blankets. l just bought a new batch actually because l went all out last time and bought expensive feather doonas forget what sort but they weighed a ton and l couldn't move under them . l went out of my way next batch to find the lightest ones l could and they've been great and helped me sleep way better now when l do sleep. Winter here and l also bought two thick fluffy blanket things as sheets , rather than just thin nothing sheets and man l can't wait to get to bed every night now, so cosy , so all that has helped me no end.

Mind wise , l've been retraining for 12 mths now as l've always been a night owl and love the night. So it was very typical l might get up for something and think hmmm gees, bright night, but it's the sun coming up and l haven't even gone to sleep yet. But l work for myself and like to be on it by 9.30ish so then l'd quickly grab a few hours. Been that way for yrs so this last 12mths l've been training myself into more normal hours and more sleep and for a few mths now l've been getting to bed , for actual sleep , 12ish, 1 or 2 . Must've been 15yrs since l've slept those kind of hours and if l do sleep l'm often getting 6 even 8 lately where as l was living on 3 , 4, for yrs and yrs. l still miss the night a lot though and still often see the sun come up. l manage 5 or 6 nights a wk now though going early.

The hardest thing l find now is shutting the mind down. l usually turn stuff off and wonder about getting ready for awhile, that helps , sometimes, but a switch would be great haha.

rx

.

How is everyone sleeping? Overall my sleep has settled down a fair bit now that life is returning to some sort of normal. I ate sugar and processed foods at a party today and now I can’t sleep. I was trying to work out what I did today that could be affecting my sleep and my diet is the only thing that changed. I forgot just how important diet is for my sleep. No more sugary foods for me over the holiday season! I laid in bed since 9.30pm then gave up at 12.30am and got the iPad out to visit the forums. Not great to use technology at night, especially when I can’t sleep, but I’m wearing my yellow coloured blue light blocking glasses so that is something. Does anyone else’s sleep get so affected by diet?

This time last year I was sleeping badly, I would wake up 5/6 times a night and just feel exhausted all the time.

Since acknowledging my problems and working on myself the past year my sleep has improved alot. I still only sleep for around 6/7 hours but I feel better.

Diet and when I eat plays a role in my sleep patterns. I need to eat dinner fairly early (around 7pm) else if I go to bed too full I don't sleep as well. If I eat too much my body goes into overdrive and I just radiate heat and I feel so uncomfortable and sleep terribly.

Its a balancing act, but one im more than willing to do.

Hi everyone

I'm having lots of problems with my sleep atm.

It's not being able to GET to sleep, then some nights sleeping so badly (like last night), then feeling so tired when I wake up, I'm more asleep than awake.

UGH!

I had to find this thread to read other's posts.

I can see that some people have a worse time with sleep bec of the types of foods they ate, and when they ate.
THANKYOU for posting that!

I bought some chocolate and ice creams as a treat for NYE since I wasn't going anywhere.... that wasn't a good thing for me lol.
I also bought lots of fizzy for Christmas for the kids and NO ONE drank any! Yeah that's a first!
I was impressed about that but this morning I took one to give me a LIFT and it's prob made things worse.

I have more headaches.

I've got so much on my mind atm. SO many issues to sort here.

And my household is "buzzing" almost 24/7 with kids going to work till up to 2am and waking very early to start work. No one can get straight to sleep when they finish work and want to "vent" to me too... like I'm tired guys lol but I love you so yeah. Plus with only one car atm, I'm doing alot of the drop offs and picks ups and it's wearing me down.

And with the grandkids being on school holidays and almost keeping regular sleep schedules lol... they want to come over alot in "normal" hours.
I'm asleep so often when they come!

I can't believe I'm on leave and feel this tired.

Sleep can be a 4 letter word but I'd LOVE some good quality sleep!

I'm going to ditch the fizzy.
Care about what I eat and when.

Thanks everyone.
EMxxxx

l fell back onto old times the last few mths and stopped sleeping, different reasons though , bad thoughts . This last 3-wks now though l've started retraining and l'm sleeping through really well again atm now so really pleased with that.

l left the tv in the lounge on all night for the first two wks so the chatter in the distance distracted bad thoughts and also made myself go into sleep dreaming good dreams. Plus tried to get back to my old new routine of switching of gadgets by 1 or 2 , go for a wonder round the house clear my head for awhile then jump into bed so that's all been working really well again andddd, l'm getting some sleep again. rx

Hi Everyone,

It is interesting reading how diet affects people sleep, thanks Fred, Gambit and EM for sharing your thoughts around food and sleep.

Good to know you are working out how to get more sleep randomx.

With your busy household EM it is no wonder your sleep pattern is all over the place. Hope you are able to sort something out somehow!

I've not slept well for a long time now. I try to set up routines, practise sleep hygiene practises, but still don't seem to be able to sleep past 3.00 a.m. even if I go to bed at midnight or 1.00 a.m.

A doctor told me I have to retrain the brain to stop waking me at 3.00 a.m. I asked him how I managed that and he told me I had to work it out for myself! If I knew how to do that I wouldn't have asked him for help with my insomnia!

Feeling so tired and washed out all day is not very helpful. Any ideas how to boost the 3.00 p.m. slump when all you want to do is have a nap at work!

Cheers all from Dools

Hello everyone

Just saw your thread and thought Id reply though little has chnaged.

i dont think I have slept for longer than 3 hrs with out waking up since 1975!!

Mostly I am lucky to sleep 2hrs at a stretch.

I think I need to retrain my bladder and brai and have tried nearly everything for both.

When someone offers me advice or I read a new article I try it but nothing works. I suppose as long as I am not in pain I accept it as I could have a lot worse wrong with me.

I suppose when friends or family say they didnt get much sleep then I find out they slept for 5 hrs uninterrupted I do envy them their 'poor' nights sleep.

Dools no answers but I am amazed I am tired whe I wkae up, tired in the afternoon, tired before evening meal, but whenever I go to sleep , I have tried routines different times too, I am wide awake!!

I yawn in front of people who are talking to me so that is embarrassing.

Thanks Dools

For me one of the biggest things with routine is not trying to nap or catch up all day long too. Get out of bed 7-8-9 whenever you normally have to get up , and stay out until bed that night again. The first wk kills you but it has to be done to be properly exhausted that night.

l retrained the waking up quirk , by staying in bed eyes shut and not giving into it. It's a 20-30minute cycle so the tired wave will be back again soon enough and if you stay put you'll nod back off. You miss that wave though and the wrong pattern starts if you don't train yourself to catch it when it returns.

Hi randomx,

I have tried getting up at 6.00 every morning and not going to bed until 10.30 p.m. being active all day and not snoozing.

I was on a low fod map diet for 6 months and that didn't seem to help.

I don't necessarily have negative thoughts, I just can't stay asleep. Maybe I am a bit like Quirky, other health issues are contributing to the situation and I might just have to live with it.

randomx

thanks for your suggestions. if it was only my brain but my bladder wakes me up many times and each time it is harder to get back to sleep. I have done what you have suggested for a long time and not napped and have a routine. I lie awake with eyes closed for hours.

I have tried diet, exercise, breathing mediation, having nothig in the bedroom, sleep hygeine you name it I tried and I am still trying.

I am willing try things and I give them a fair trial of months but nothing changes. Sometimes I think acceptance is better than fighting.

Yeah right , damn , sorry to hear all that .

l know how hard it can be. All l can say is we need to figure out what works for us , know and understand ourselves and what's happening , and come up with a strategy , and for me as long as l persists and stick to mine, it's finally worked , but that's me.

Sorry nothing has worked for you guys. Strangely l wasn't even tired when l wasn't sleeping , l had more energy then than l do now when l do sleep. That was my option b and to hell with it, just leave it. But they say so many bad things about not sleeping and my daughter was really worried about me, soooo.l seem to be back on track lately , see if it lasts l suppose.

lt's a very weird business isn't it. l know a guy late 50s he's only slept 3hrs a night his whole life, still has heaps of energy and just accepts it. He was saying he just doesn't seem to need more and it doesn't seem to matter, runs a business , flies small planes for a hobby, so he's just lived that way he's whole life and always will. For him fair enough l suppose if it ain't broke.

Sounds like nothing will fix it for you guys , maybe there's peace in just excepting it then .

rx

Hi rx and All reading,

I too have known people who don't seem to need much sleep and do very well with it. Usually I do accept the fact I don't sleep, but when I become really exhausted because of it I become rather irritable and tired.

Guess I just have to accept the days I am tired and achieve what I can those days.

Today I was planning on a drive to the beach, after a few nights of lousy sleep, I awoke with a head ache, was very tired and dizzy. I didn't feel safe going out driving so worked in the garden instead. I will get to the beach another day.

I'm really happy for everyone who is able to have a good night's sleep.

Cheers all from Dools

Hey everyone

Quirky and those reporting NOT sleeping more than 2-3h at a stretch.. I'm like that quite a lot when I'm on leave most esp.

Then last week a Uni student just happened to tell me they read about Sleep routines in some cultures and how DIFFERENT they are to what we've come to accept as "normal" here.

Like what is normal anyway, that word just bugs me lol.

So apparently it's quite common and actually routine and expected that people have a nap / sleep in the afternoon or evening. Sleep for a few hours then, THEN get up for another few hours and do things like housework and even go to neighbour's houses! Yay... there's a "norm" I'm normal with!
Then head back to bed before waking for the work day.

I DON'T necessarily feel better after a long stretch of sleep, sometimes I feel quite groggy and out of it (and no I don't drink alcohol lol).
Some times I DO need to and DO feel better for it.

Back 30+y ago my Nana said I'd had insomnia since I was a baby lol but it wasn't insomnia I think. It was just that I've always needed less sleep than HER children and my cousins for example. The "Baby Books" didn't match me OR any of my children. It used to drive my family batty.

Now my kids are teens they are sleeping alot more but that's good too.

My adult children went through that and are now like me again, as they were when they were younger.

I try to relax and have a "getting ready for bed" routine esp when I'm working.
On hols I just go with the flow alot more and not get all worried about it.

As I long as I can more or less "function" during the day, I'm fine with it.

I was just born in the wrong culture lol!

Love EM

Yeah very true

A lot of them also don't have a rigid 9 to 5 type lifestyle typical of here though or stresses of what would you call it , Western world life l suppose . l've worked for myself all my life and although l like a bit of a pattern helps get me focused , it's very give or take a few hours this way or that too though and just worked around how l'm feeling on the day too. l can work with any amount of sleep or hours or lack of . My gf and l curl up for afternoon siesta , even when she's not here , which l'll really miss if l don't get that , far more than any nights sleep, but apart from that really, sleep doesn't make much difference to me physically.

But the reason l need to make routine about sleeping is l just won't sleep if l don't for me it's the routine that will get me sleeping again it's the only thing that's worked. But l always miss the freedom of no routine when l use it , and the nights , and the way l feel living that way as compared to sleeping some kind of norm again. l prefer my other ways , may well go back to them yet, we see. lt never really bothered me if l didn't sleep much anyway, felt fine.

rx

I go to bed around 11-1130 and wake up at 6 every morning (even weekends). It works for me and by the end of the day I feel sufficiently tired enough to go to sleep.

whats getting me at the moment is the heat! I do not sleep well when its hot - Im sure thats the same for everyone haha.

Ive been looking at 'cooling' mattress toppers, has anyone had any experience?

Hi Everyone,

Way back in the day when over seas travel was possible, I remember we were in different countries where shops and businesses were shut for a couple of hours during the day so people could have a family meal together and a sleep.

Everything opened again late in the afternoon and businesses were open later. It seemed strange to me to see families out up to midnight with very young children. It worked for them though so why not! Also made a lot of sense in a hot country.

Not sure my boss would be too appreciative if I took an afternoon nap at work! Ha. Ha.

Cheers all from Dools

Sleep has been evading me again lately.

Is there anyone out there who has completely overcome their sleep problems? I am starting to feel very frustrated and hopeless about ever recovering.

I am sorry you feel frustrated and hopeless Fred. Wish I had hints for you or something

I physically feel like.. "not with it" to be honest. Not having quality sleep is knocking me around. I have been looking at the possible reasons it has changed so dramatically. I did have some slight issues before. But this appears worse.

Possible current reasons :

1...Eating too late at night. I have now gone back to snacking late at night, around 7pm and onwards.

2...Eating chocolate late at night. It has caffeine,even if it has a small amount. Caffeine (coffee) has always keeped me awake even for a couple of days. I stay away from coffee mostly. But I have been eating easter eggs. So yeah for me caffeine

3...I have not been walking outside in the fresh air and sunshine as much. Lately it has been raining far too much.

4...physically I just have not been doing much work.

5...I have been eating lots of wheat bread, (toast with hummus) which feels like glue in my tummy.

6...Heavy meals plus wheat bread takes a long time to digest. So for me digestive system works overtime during the night. So the body does not rest, heal or restore itself. Its too busy digesting all the food late I ate too late at night instead

7...using my phone and the light of it too late at night. Something to do with "blue light" and serotonin. I am staring at the phone for hours into the night. Netflix etc

8...Been feeling overwhelmed with things in my life

9...teeth and mouth problems. Pain at times. Though not over the last few days. Very thankful for that.

10...Going to bed around 2am. Most people's body's sleep better from 11pm or even earlier.

Possible fix ups:

1..Get back out of the habit of eating late at night. Stop eating before 6pm. Then eat no more food until the next day..

2...So no to the wheat bread.

3...Get a waterproof jacket and walk outside anyway. I least I will get fresh air

4...Go back to the gym and do cardio and weights and stuff.

5...Buy a diffuser and diffuse essential oils that calm me down and help me sleep. Like lavender. Research other piddibke oils that I good for this.

6..keep sipping on red raspberry tea. Maybe some chamomile as well. Just started sipping on the red raspberry.

7...stop using my phone late into the night. Switch it off and charge it in the living room. Away from me.

8...Pick 1 household chore that requires me too move more and do it every day.

9..soak my feet in Epsom salts. If I had a bath I would soak in that

10...Pray and give all these overwhelming thoughts, troubles, and fears to God. I can't carry them anymore.

Fred I have not slept for more than 2hrs at a time in las 40 years.

i usually wake up every hour.

I have tried everything so now I stop trying and just accept I don’t sleep much. It is a relief and I am ok about it but not worried.

Hi all,

Thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth.

I've had a sleeping disorder since I was 16, formally diagnosed at 18 ('chronic insomnia of a severe nature' was what my sleep specialist wrote), and am almost 28. By the time I was diagnosed I was having auditory hallucinations, migraines that caused me to go temporarily partially blind, and dissociation (a weird dream like detachment from my experience and body).

-See a damn sleep specialist as soon as you can if your sleep is truly awful! I can't stress this enough. I was told by a GP to "read Lord of the Rings" to put myself to sleep *rolls eyes* (of course reading in bed is wonderful, but not suitable advice for people with dangerously high sleep deprivation). Find a sleep disorder clinic, and...

-Get a sleep study done (I've done two). This'll give you an objective scientific picture of what your brain is up to. There is a little spike in brain activity while asleep every 5 minutes that we all have as a product of evolution which turns on your senses briefly (to search for danger). It's imperceptible to us. Mine does it 20 times every 5 minutes. (Consequence of growing up in a dangerous environment).

-An anti-depressant with strong sedative qualities saved my life. I wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for it's sedative effect. Discuss your results with the specialist. I take it before bed every night. If I don't have it, I literally do not sleep until days of unbearable sleep deprivation forces me to. I haven't had a single nap in the past 10 years. Not. One.

-Then work with a sleep psychologist (the specialist will refer you) on MBSR-I and CBT-I. This was life changing for me, and I did this many years after being on the medication (wish to god I'd done it sooner). The medication on it's own isn't enough. I will do another post exploring this specifically (MBSR-I).

I have many other health problems and my sleeping disorder isn't going anywhere, but there was a dramatic shift in the quality of my sleep. If I'm coming across a little intense in my writing it's because it breaks my heart to read how bad some of you are sleeping. Sleep is sacred. Sleep deprivation is hell.

There is a difference between 'struggling with sleep', and having a sleeping disorder. You need to be able to tell the difference. A sleeping disorder can be life threatening, so please push to get the appropriate, authoritative specialist help if your sleep is getting really out of control for long periods of time without improvement.

Sean

I don’t struggle with sleep or have. Sleep disorder, I have a physical condition which causes me to wake up frequently. I will read your post thanks znd see if I can use some of the advice.

My previous post was intended as a 'wake up' call to anyone who isn't taking action to get help, and whose sleep is bad enough to constitute a chronic sleeping disorder, but is undiagnosed and un-helped.

With that out of the way, I want to tell a story about crows to illustrate the importance of MBSR-I and CBT-I.

I'd been on medication for years (reasonably effective) but still, when I was woken up in the night I would never, ever get back to sleep. And I'd experience a burst of dread and negativity when awake. I requested to see a sleep psychologist at my sleep disorder clinic.

At the time, their was a flock (called a 'murder') of Australian ravens that landed outside my bedroom window, in a tree, and crowed for about 40 minutes every morning at around 5-6. I hated them. So did my partner at the time. She never adapted to it. Me, the guy with the sleeping disorder, grew to love the ravens.

I started viewing my awakening as an opportunity to put the mindfulness principles into practice and inquire into my reaction against the crows. Firstly, I was awake. I couldn't change that. Yes, they were loud, but, "wait a minute, I actually adore birds. Ravens are native, that is their tree, they are highly social creatures chatting to one another, they're beautiful and creepy. They aren't out to get me, or hurt me. My stress is only going to keep me awake. Can I just lie here, and be awake? Focus on my breathing. Accept the situation for what it is without judging myself, the damn crows or the fact that I'm awake."

I did this every day. After a week, although I woke each morning from my fragile sleep due to the symphony of obscenely loud birds, the negativity drained away. I stopped caring. I started smiling to myself, imaging the ravens were my guests.

After a month I stopped even waking up at all from the crows. My partner would toss and turn, angry and annoyed, and I was sleeping through it! What the actual hell?! If I did wake up, I'd think 'Oh, it's just the silly old crows' and breathe calmly and go straight back to sleep. This was a revolutionary breakthrough for me.

I expanded it, and my skill set to many domains of sleep (through sleep-focused therapy and through embodying equanimity and indifference). I still have poorer than average sleep, but it is a hell of a lot better than it was. I hope the story illustrates that it is possible to radically improve.

https://sleephub.com.au/mindfulness-practical-tips-for-sleep/