I've been trying to force myself to want a job, but I just don't want one. Jobseeker is basically a job, so I don't want that either. Its just not worth going through all that that for such a tiny amount of money. Its not even worth it.

I know money is important, but honestly being homeless, broke, starving, destitute, sick, dead etc as a consequence isn't scary enough. There's things that will happen to me that are 100x scarier then that. Like climate change.

I genuinely from the bottom of my heart dont see a point in working for money. It just doesn't make any logical sense. Money isn't even rewarding, it just means you get to live a bit longer. To work longer. Why would I just waste my time pretending like I will live until retirement age? That's just not realistic.

I just want to spend time with my family and walk in the park while I can, before bad things happen. I don't want to waste any moment because this time of my life will probably be the happiest.

I have severe ADHD and I can tell that if I went the jobseeker route that I would get so many demerits and stress and appointments for years... its just not worth it. I don't want a job, its not even important.

I know people do things even though they don't like it. But I struggle to do things that I like too. I struggle a lot to do very basic activities of daily living. Absolute necessities. I think to do something and my body doesn't respond. It doesn't matter what it is or how severe it is. I had an allergic reaction to food earlier today and my airway was closing up fast. I should have been rushing to the doctor, but my body just wanted to sit, I struggled to care about it even though it was getting harder to breathe. It all happened passively.

I'm fine now, but yeah idk that experince just left thoughts in my head. I don't understand how people just do things whenever they want to. I literally have never been able to do what I want or what I need. I can move but I'm not doing what I want/need. Its like being paralysed in a moving body. You could say typing here is 'moving' but if I could choose I would not post this info here as its too personal. Also, I want and need to be doing other more important things.. But its not like I have much control over what my body chooses to do, so.

Anyway if you have thoughts, please share. I'm just lost here. Things don't really feel real and I've been acting super out of character (like really mean) recently. Don't really understand why I'm like this.

Hi Spl,

I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling so terrible. It sounds like you are feeling very anxious, and also wondering what the meaning of life is.

Hey Spl spl,

I agree with you. Money is a silly reason to do many things and we all find ourselves caught up in a vicious cycle of earn and spend to achieve little more than keeping us afloat and firmly locked in the system for the most valuable years of our lives (perpetuated by fears of not having 'enough' in retirement). Although utopian, I do admire your philosophy to live for the day and avoid the trappings of mammon.

However, many people also work in jobs for their social interaction, self esteem gained from applying their skills, fascination and advancement in their particular field, self worth from contributing to the needs of others, or simply for the chance to escape becoming self absorbed or stagnating - it's better to do something, and if it serves to benefit the planet, then being paid is just a bonus.

Thinking solely about the money aspect may be preventing you from finding something you feel passionate about (hm, what could that be??). Your own struggle with ADHD could even be the seed for investigation, research, and quest for answers. The knowledge you acquire along with your first hand experience gives you certain qualities others do not possess so who knows where that could lead you?

Hi Here2Talk,

Thanks for replying and I guess in a sense yeah you're right.

Hi tranzcrybe,

Yeah I agree with what you are saying too. I think I am looking at the money aspect a bit too much and not looking at the other parts of it. I am "passionate" about climate change but it comes from a place of fear. I've tried to start various things around it, just mentally/emotionally I burn out very fast since its such a heavy subject. Its not something that I love at all.

Finding a balance between people's expectations, what I love, and what I need to do is taking a lot of time to sort out. I have a direction I'm going, and things that I'm doing in that direction, its just taking time to figure out what is possible for me & my situation. Too much time for other peoples comfort.

My ADHD is a big reason for this kind of job attitude. I wouldn't be making this much of a deal about it if I had the ability to bite the bullet, "just do it" and get a job / jobseeker. Honestly I really hope one day ADHD is counted as a disability in Australia because I'm getting all the treatment I can and Im still not able to handle basic obligations, especially long term. Starting to look if something else is wrong at this point.

After fighting with your body so long and believing that one day you'll get better, there's a certain point where it's just- obvious that the majority of people have more control over "doing" then you do. Like its taken for granted and if you can't do something, its seen as a moral failing. Not everybody has the physical ability to use 'wilpower' to push them towards a goal. Like sure I feel willpower but it doesn't matter my body still isn't moving when I want it to. What I need or what I want makes no difference, it doesn't matter, that's not how it works.

There's a point where you just have to accept that some people will see you as lazy because they can't understand that I'm not choosing to act like anything, it doesn't work for me like it does for them. Physically, in my brain, it doesn't work like that.

So its pretty stupid that I'm held to the same expectations. And then harassed when I fail to reach them. Many people have no idea just how good they've got it. It only takes a few differences in your brain to make everyday tasks insurmountable. I only started my first morning routine a year ago. I only was able to start thinking of the future properly a year ago. I only 'woke up' to my surroundings a year ago. I only learnt what a choice actually was a year ago, after taking medication. I'm only starting to live. Its cruel.

Hi Spl spl,

It sounds really tough about how you are seen by others for your disability - and you are absolutely correct that any other 'recognisable' disability would receive the consideration it deserved.

Do you make this clear to those who criticise? Maybe it's a case of providing enough information to help them understand. But I wouldn't be placing much emphasis on what others think, say or do.

You know, from what you describe, it reminds me of those dealing with stuttering - knowing what they want to say, but unable to get the mouth to cooperate. In the old days (or still today?) this was also seen as an 'intellectual' issue and nothing could be further from the truth. You appear to have a 'physical' stutter where your body won't listen to your head.

You have come a long way in a short time so give yourself a little more space and don't feel intimidated by others' impatience. There is still an answer out there that works for you and there seems to be a clarity about you that many 'more able bodied' people lack.

Hi again, thought I would update on this thread.

Thank you for the reply tranzcrybe, I really appreciate what you said.

I'm just updating since I'm feeling a bit down. I don't know how to manage other people's expectations... and how to reach them. It's just extremely frustrating. I try to explain that I'm struggling - but the other person just doesn't get it. They're like "oh but it's not all the time, you do have control of your body" which is just not the case. If I can't stand up when I think to myself 'stand up' then that's not control. Literally all I'm asking for people to put themselves in my shoes just a little, show a little compassion & understanding ... but it's just not happening.

It really feels like people are only kind to my circumstances if they can understand it. If they can't, they just go right into assuming it's some kind of choice. As if I'm acting this way on purpose. As if I'm getting something out of this. I'm not. I just struggle to initiate actions, that's it! But people take that so far in the wrong way like I've got some big evil morality behind it. It's not like that. Literally my body doesn't move when I think to move somewhere that's the problem. Why would I lie about this??? Ugh sorry for the total lack of context here to be honest I am just venting.

It just makes me upset that other problems get support and understanding - but if I can't be as productive as other people in society, suddenly I'm the scum of the earth. It's all about productivity, everything. That's all they care about, if I'm productive and not making mistakes and succeeding. But it's ridiculous to assume everyone can do it the same way as everyone else. It's just annoying that other problems, there's support out there, but for this I just keep getting people saying to me "I don't know what to do about that".

Mostly it's just frustrating because me not being able to complete some basic task will get turned into this massive argument multiple times. And people just don't get it. I explain but they just don't believe me. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do here, when somebody refuses to listen and just wants to control the situation without even attempting to understand the problem at the core of it.

They say I hurt them in this way. I'm not choosing to do that deliberately. I'm struggling to have the luxury of initiating the actions necessary to make a choice in the first place. I can't just "do it", that's all! Why is this so hard to understand?

Updating again.

I'm just angry and upset honestly. Every time I need actual help and support, I get punished and pushed down instead. I have a rough week, and can't get myself to do something? Okay, that's kind of annoying but it's not like I'm in a bad mood or anything, and I know that if I keep up my sleep schedule and keep taking my medication that I'll eventually have the clarity of mind to do it, even if it takes a couple more days to initiate it.

But apparently, that's not good enough.

And I need to get punished for my symptoms of not being able to initiate tasks on command. Which obviously leads to me feeling depressed and angry. Which does not help with getting a proper sleep schedule or self care or anything. In fact, now even more obstacles are in the way. Emotional, physical, I know that there are people who are not on my side and are trying to sabotage my efforts. It's so frustrating that I'm not allowed to help myself and learn how to control this disorder, so I can do things myself.

It just pisses me off. Like, I tell them I have this problem. I say I want help. You know what help is to me? Patience. Understanding. Compassion. Respect. Help is not doing my tasks for me, invading my space with brute force and infantilizing me. Help is not putting more rules and regulations and paperwork in front of me, as if that's going to make me do anything. You could give me a million dollars as a reward for doing this task, and it wouldn't make me do anything. That's not how it works. You can't force me, and I can't force me. So how is a punishment meant to help anything.

They don't love me. They only love who they expect me to become. But I can't become that person, because I don't physically have that part of my brain- because this is a lifelong neurodevelopmental condition. I can't just "learn the lesson", I know the lesson, but my body doesn't follow those rules. I'm just a normal person who gets trapped inside their body when they try to initiate tasks on purpose- it's really not rocket science. How is it so hard to believe that the motivation and initiation parts of the brain can also be disordered?

I'm not allowed to have autonomy and individuality apparently, which they said to my face. And then had the nerve to be surprised when I raged at them. How is that okay to say to a person? You can't just say that. They see some weird caricature when they look at me instead of a human person. It's weird. I hate it. I'm not a human to them.

Hi Spl spl,
Just checked in to find 'unread mail' - sorry for any delay.

I see you are still struggling with frustrations and expectations of others. Being trapped in a time delayed physical response sounds debilitating, but worse is how you feel misrepresented in the eyes of those who do not see beyond the surface.
You can consume much energy moulding yourself to the designs of others and this also applies to those with completely different conditions and perceptions of 'normality' they strive to emulate often at great personal cost.
While it is affirmative action to better yourself in any way possible, external pressure rarely yields good outcomes, particularly if you take such criticisms personally - your outbursts reflect this understandable frustration.
Yes, you want and deserve compassion from others but you can proactively deflect negativity and innuendo by offering compassion for their misunderstanding and preconceptions. Your credibility emanates from within and this can further empower your progress; conversely, bringing yourself down will add weight to criticisms and denigration.
I believe that any disability makes other attributes more capable. Perhaps focus more on the unique qualities you have to offer - for instance, applying thought prior to tasks can give rise to greater efficiency and innovation, reduce risk, and even improve productivity in the long term.

Hi tranzcrybe,

Thanks for your replies, I really appreciate it.

I have a bit of an update, I actually found out what was wrong with me. I haven't been diagnosed (its hard to do in Australia) but I can spot the signs in my previous posts & self-diagnosis is very common with this particular thing. It's Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA). The name describes what it looks like to others (it looks like you are avoiding ordinary tasks to the extreme), but it doesn't describe what it feels like to have it. It's seen as a sub-group of autism, but the treatment is different (also very different symptoms).

For PDA, 'demands' such as instructions, schedules, requests, your own needs and wants (what you like to do and what you don't like to do).... initiate 'demand avoidance' automatically. That's when your body automatically puts you into fight or flight mode, so you either have a panic attack (fight), run away (flight), or dissociate (freeze, this is what I'm doing 99% of the time). If someone tells me to do something I get a spike of panic even if they say it as a joke. Wording demands differently works, like making it sound like a suggestion or invitation using different language. Reverse psychology also works sometimes. But well, the people I asked can't be bothered to do this & the world just doesn't operate like this for it to be realistically possible to avoid getting triggered. Being hungry or basic body needs triggers fight or flight response too.

Other symptoms are very intense emotions & mood swings, impulsiveness, unpredictability. Sociable, but lacking some things like the ability to feel pressure from authority figures (sees every person including themselves as equal). Creative, comfortable in role play & fantasy. Obsessions that are social in nature, to do with real or fictional people. An intense drive for personal control and autonomy, which is backed up by social strategies like distraction, reducing meaningful conversation, procrastination, manipulation (to control their own autonomy, not other people's) etc

Basically it's a person who is impossible to control, because they can't calmly control their actions in the first place. Rewards and consequences for completing demands don't work. Strictness, schedules, deadlines, reminders etc only increase stress. Often when reaching out for help, PDAers get triggered because the help does not comfort them, only increases distress. Less demands & more alone time helps manage it.

Just sharing the news

Another update, 3 months later.

PDA is a type of autism where your body automatically goes into fight, flight or freeze when it perceives demands. This is because demands are incorrectly perceived as threats by the brain. This happens for all demands, even ordinary daily things like participating in a hobby I enjoy, self-care or a friend saying "let's hang out on Monday".

99% of the time I'm in freeze response due to PDA triggering all the time, but contrary to my previous-held belief, the freeze response =/= dissociation. When you are dissociated, you can still move your body around. Not moving isn't part of dissociation in and of itself.

When the body goes into freeze response for a long period of time, the word for it is tonic immobility. It occurs in humans who are subject to intense trauma, who couldn't escape with fight or flight. It seems like even though I am not going through intense trauma, my body incorrectly perceives so much threat that it causes this response. A more accurate term used to describe this is the flop response- it's where fight or flight to considered to be made up of 5 F's = fight, flight, freeze, fawn and flop. Freeze response describes tense and rigid immobility, which is not what I experience. During flop response, the body goes limp, which is more accurate for me. It's like the body is playing dead. Dissociation is also common, which is where I believe my initial misunderstanding stemmed from.

Both 'tonic immobility' and 'flop response' are descriptors, but are not the official medical term for this condition. The word for not being able to move for weeks or months is catatonia. It can co-occur with multiple different mental disorders. There is autistic catatonia as well, which I've found is most similar to my situation.

Considering this, I am in the process of waiting for appointments, but it's around Christmas now, so I'm going to have to wait quite a while.

In the meantime, I think I understand myself more now. Even something like the disability pension absolutely sends panic through me. You still need to complete obligations and requirements to have it, which I can't complete when I'm in a catatonic state, since I can't move. Also, those obligations being demands would trigger my fight or flight response, triggering the flop response- which is catatonia.

I believe the current system for receiving centrelink benefits significantly worsens my symptoms. I can't work and I can't receive benefits without going catatonic.

Hey Spl spl,

Thanks for such an informed post - you really have a handle on your condition which can at least take some pressure off your anxiety when confronted by demands of daily life. I'm thinking a printout/flyer of your condition could help new people you meet to find understanding and awareness - just as you have done for me!

Regarding Centrelink, it sounds like a vicious cycle where the requirements trigger the cause. I have heard that you can request an advocate to act on your behalf so you might find some assistance there.

Google Disability Advocacy as a starting point. Alternatively, a friend or relative might lend you a hand?

Well done, Spl spl, you are quite industrious and have eminently demonstrated your case! Do keep us posted.