Hey

I like what you said. It's helped a lot. I think it was good to hear from someone close in age to me who has been there before :)

The trick is to keep on keeping on. At the end of the day that is the best advice anyone can ever give. Thanks :)

Hey.

Apology accepted. I owe you one too.

Firstly i should clarify myself. By making suggestions like car trips and holidays etc. what it does is make me feel worse. These sorts of things cost money. Money which I don't have. My financial situation is very lacking. My social one is too. All I'm simply asking is that you take this into consideration before making suggestions (granted, i dont think i clarified those points in my previous response so i should make that clearer in future)

Sorry to hear you were abused. If what I've said has brought it up then i do apologise. Sometimes I lash out at the wrong people. You're clearly helping me though and you have given some good pointers earlier. Depression is the worst. Again sorry. I think we can move past it though.

I really do appreciate your thoughts. All I'm saying is that sometimes things are impractical and not possible. That's got nothing to do with my attitude and mood. Me going on a car trip with friends is not gonna happen. That's a fact. I think the reason I get annoyed when people like you try your best to help with certain suggestions is because I agree that they are good BUT then I realise that they are not plausible. I agree, car trip would be great but it's another thing that can't happen. THAT's what upsets me. Again, I do appreciate it but I need to make it clear that these types of things won't help when they can't happen. It's a bit like my nose gets rubbed in the dirt. Please don't feel bad about doing that, technically i should be more clear next time and that's my fault. But i need to make it clear that certain things just won't happen. Being reminded of that makes it harder. It comes across as slightly condescending too.

What made you feel threatened by me saying that "i may not come back here?" (so i know for the future)

I saw my psych 2 days ago and tbh i feel like it was a waste of time. If i had a dollar for everytime he talks about his own experience i think ill start a riot lol. Was meant to see my psychiatrist on ANZAC Day but they were closed.. despite the fact they gave me an appointment. But then i think that its best to stay there because i hate changing around everything. The mental health system is stupid. Ive had to change gp's 4 times in 3 years because they "move on." But that's life i guess. The psychologist and gp are free, bulk billed you see. Psychiatrist is rebate. (Again with the costs). I take meds for anxiety too.

Anyhow. I'll leave it there.

Peace.

Hey HamSolo,

Thank you for coming back to reply and for your apology. I appreciate it.

Yeah depression sucks big time. We're all human eh with our triggers noone else knows but ourselves. It's hard to know especially online if our words will help or hurt especially with limited information about who we are talking to...we can only just try muddle through.

I'm struggling a lot today so I won't be online till I'm stable ok. Just need to get my head sorted and only a few more days to my psychiatrist appmt so I'll be fine.

Please know it's not your fault though. I'll be back to nagging you to take care of yourself again soon... Just need to take my own advice now. Called in sick and waiting to go to sleep.

Take care and I'm sorry to pile this on you too.

Hi HamSolo01,

I do see your reply may have been directed at me, and I apologise if I was making irrational suggestions to you, I only know what you have told us on these forums and I can only make general suggestions based on that (which I know you said above in your reply to Quercus, my advice is just based on my experiences or things I have seen help other people on these forums, that's all, but I understand what you are saying and again I apologise if I upset you.

I'm always here to talk and offer my support.

My best,

Jay

Hi HamSolo01,

How have you been holding up?

I saw elsewhere that you were looking into group therapy? Have you started that? I found my psychologist hard work too. She would talk about her problems and I'd end up going home worrying about her too. I just see the psychiatrist now instead. But I'd like to know about the group therapy if you decide to go.

I'm feeling ok now so I can explain why I felt threatened.

I carry a lot of guilt for choosing to leave an abusive relationship. Basically it got to a point where I knew I had to leave or I was going to end my life. But whenever I tried to approach the topic he said he would hurt himself. So I spent a long time treading on eggshells. Considering every word. Trying not to offend. And trying to hold on. In the end he hurt me in a way I couldn't forgive and I realised I hated him. I didn't care if he hurt himself. So I left. He was fine, it was just another technique of emotional blackmail.

But I struggle with the guilt of choosing my life over another persons. Ultimatums (even unintentional ones) are a huge trigger for me. So I freaked out.

Moving on. How do you think we can help you? I like to keep things positive and aim high. I know some things are unrealistic but it helps me to keep a hopeful mindset and to look for something similar that is achievable for me. For example taking a holiday is out of reach for me but I can make plans to see a friend. I can go for a new bush walk. The hard part for me is inspiring myself to actually DO something. To leave the house. That works for me. But it doesn't seem to work for you so I have a few questions for you.

You know yourself. What do you need from this thread? What can we do to help you feel better?

I hope you feel able to respond and have had a good weekend.

Hijacking your thread for a moment... (Sorry HamSolo01) 😊

Hi Jay! I find your comments really helpful (have seen them around the forum) but I can't find your thread. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

Yeah... therapy is for me... not the damn psychologist right? Far out... I'm just sick of having to switch about and find new psychologists... Then you gotta get your Plan updated... book in to see a new one... Bloody stupid.I'm off to my psychiatrist tomorrow and I'm gonna be just as honest there too. So much of the stuff I posted about originally (the relationships stuff) is clouding my view on myself. Want to ask the psychiatrist how or why it's happening. Should be interesting.

Anyways. Group therapy is on notice. Hasn't got an official day yet, but they have my details. Looking forward to it actually. I'm just worried I will bring the group down to my level lol.

I see. Sorry to hear that you went through all of that stuff. It sounds horrid. Glad to hear you got out of there though. The whole "trying not to offend" thing usually never works. People will always be offended. I think it's just a case of finding out what one wants or thinks and sticking to it. Be willing to be wrong, but still have something to stick to. Threats of self harm as revenge are the worst. Reminds me of a friend I had in high school who I basically moved on from. Haven't looked back since. Sadly there have been too many of them lately... Maybe that's why I have a tendency to shut people out hey?

In answer to "What do you need from this thread? What can we do to help you feel better?"

I guess a soundboard. There's only so much help you can get from the professionals. From meds. From eating right. From exercise. From philosophy. I think what I need here is just advice and suggestions. Thing is I'm naturally apprehensive to take things as they are.. That's just how my mind works. What I really should start doing is applying that skeptical mind in a way that actaully boosts my wellbeing. So that would involved being skeptical of bad, negative thoughts in the mind about how I've failed etc and I'm only 23. All the stuff I've been speaking of really.

But by all means, keep suggesting things. Your advice of "keeping a hopeful mindset and setting things that are achievable" is good. That's what I'm trying to do. Lately I've spoken to a few people about my mental health - was just honest with them about how things were. Both good responses. The problem is that the onus is on me to speak to them when things do go south. THAT's the real challenge. It's one thing to tell someone you have mental health episodes, but another thing entirely to speak up when it gets bad.

Til next time :)

Hi again,

I like how you talked about being honest. It's amazing how liberating that is. I'm grateful to be alive so it doesn't bother me anymore to just answer the questions openly. It has been helpful. I'm finding the more honest I am the better my GP and psychiatrist are able to help me. I hope you can let us know how that technique works after you see your psychiatrist.

I think it will be good for you to talk to the psychiatrist about your anxiety about relationships. Especially about the way this is impacting on how you feel about yourself.

You seem so very worried about the fact that you haven't had a relationship. What do you think is normal? Do you think your situation is abnormal? I can tell you it's not.

I know plenty of people who took time to find a relationship and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some wanted to wait till marriage, some were socially anxious and needed to be comfortable, some were embarrassed about their inexperience. But they are all lovely and completely normal people.

I'm not trying to minimise how you feel or be condescending. I'm just saying there is more to us as people than the relationships we've experienced.

I get a bit emotional there... I wish I wasn't in such a hurry to rush into a relationship at school. Would have saved me a whole lot of pain and shame and therapy.

Anyway, hope your appointment is helpful and you can sort through some of the problems worrying you.

Take care of yourself HamSolo01.

Thanks again :)

Ill keep posting on here for sure

Hi HamSolo01,

You've been a bit quiet everything ok? Hopefully it's cos you're busy with tutoring and uni and the gym and all 😊

How did your psychiatrist appointment go? Did you give brutal honesty a go?

Anyways hoping you are feeling well at the moment.

Hey

Thanks for checking up

The last week has been interesting. I've just been busy with uni. Changed my psychologist too which was a good thing. This new one works with the psychiatrist. They share notes in other words, which is good.The other psychologist I realised was just becoming lazy with the approach they took. If I had a dollar for every time he said "we've been over this before" I'd be able to pay off my HECS debt already.. bloody nuisance.

But I'm looking forward to starting with a new one - someone more qualified too i think.The new psych is a woman too, strangely I feel like that will be better? I dunno why...

Your question: "You seem so very worried about the fact that you haven't had a relationship. What do you think is normal? Do you think your situation is abnormal? I can tell you it's not."

This got me thinking.

I reckon it's a generational thing. 99% of people I know and am friends with tend to place their self-esteem and confidence in that sort of thing. In order to feel valued and accepted by society, there seems to be a tendency to want relationships. A friend once told me that it's like people think "better something than nothing."

I used to think that..

But I think deep down I'm just very self-conscious. I genuinely do feel ugly most of the time. Ugly on the inside I think, just as much as the outside. It's not like I fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down, but I don't value myself at all. I never take compliments seriously. Like I try to take them lightly. It's stuffed up I know. I reckon it's probably because I'm a guy too. Like I sometimes feel less of a man because I've never been laid. I think accepting who I am is something I have to do, before I can let others do it. Deep down I know that, perhaps that's why I've been apprehensive? All this sort of stuff I already know I'll be able to raise with the new psychologist. The old one would've just said "okay let's make a plan", "we need to go over this again." There's only so much help a fat guy in his 50s can give to a 23 year old. At least this way I can start fresh, and on stuff I need to get help with. The new psych will come at this with a clean slate, with some information from someone who she works with. This way it'll be stronger. This is exactly what the psychiatrist said - stronger CBT.

Anywho, thanks for checking. I reckon I might've scared everyone off haha except you.

Peace out :)

Hey mate,

sorry I haven't been posting here. I've been pretty up and down of late and I try to monitor myself a little bit better when I'm like this.

I love your little comment about the ugly tree. I found that quite funny.

As a guy also in mid-20s, I know what you mean about that fear of being less of a guy. It's a very self defeating expectation we place on ourselves but it's there, regardless of whether we think it's dumb or not. Still, it's also a completely self-imposed belief. Other people worth our time simply don't care about that.

I saw something either here or in the Friends' cafe where you said you've been struggling basically to change your thoughts. I think that's a good thing - it means you're really trying hard, and also that, when you do manage to change some of these self-beliefs, it should be a real proper, long lasting change.

Anyway, a lot of this stuff is stuff which would be good to chat to your new psychologist about. Sometimes we get paired with doctors who aren't right for us and we only realise later. It's hard because we're struggling with ourselves and don't have the time to think properly about whether a doctor is good for us or not. I've realised I work better with female psychs because, well, I went to a guy's only school and to say I've got a biased view about males and how emotionally connected they are is a massive understatement. Wrong view, clearly, but my current (female) psych seems to be going well so I'm in no rush to change that, haha.

But yeah, it's been really obvious to me that you've been doing a truckload of thinking recently, so I imagine it will be good when you do have your appointment to actually put a lot of this thinking into action.

James

Thanks man :)

I agree. "It's a very self defeating expectation we place on ourselves but it's there, regardless of whether we think it's dumb or not."

I get sick of counselors, friends, psychologists and doctors and families saying "oh you'll meet someone" or "everyone has their time" or "it's just a silly thing people do" but in actual fact it exists whether you like it or not. It's there regardless. Stop trying to deny it haha. Sometimes I feel like the only way I'll ever be content with it is if I just rest with the thought I'll be alone forever. Horrible thought. Who would WANT that? But I do feel like it's the only way forward with this.

"It's hard because we're struggling with ourselves and don't have the time to think properly about whether a doctor is good for us or not." Yep. Bloody annoying right haha? But I reckon it makes us stronger strangely enough. As Nietzsche once said, "That which does not kill us, makes us stronger."

I feel like this is true for suicidal people. Who've been there and experienced it and are pushing through it. Cultures of protection and safety have a place for sure, but eventually we must confront the demons we deal with or else we are mastered by them.

As a dude in your mid-20s I feel like I have a heap of questions for you haha. Either way, I respect that you take time to look over and recover yourself - that's a surefire way to improve :)

I remember I saw a female counselor back in year 8 and it helped. Didn't need to see them again after lol. Maybe there's a lesson in that experience? Either way I know I've made the correct choice.

Peace bro, and thanks for checking in :)

Take care

Hi again,

I reckon I might've scared everyone off haha except you.

Nah don't think that HamSolo01. I've noticed that lots of people stay silent on here sometimes when they aren't coping themselves. But that doesn't mean they're not listening or following how you're feeling.

I reply to you because I've had this discussion before with another young man in my offline world. So I feel like I have something to offer you even if that is simply to give you the knowledge and reassurance that you aren't alone and that your feelings are valid and normal.

Your last post has a lot of things I want to talk about. I will get back to you in the next few days. I've lost the plot today need some time to sort myself out sorry (you're welcome on my thread if you want the nitty gritty). Off to work now sigh.

Take care of yourself and I'm pleased about your new psych.

You didn't scare me off, I felt like I had nothing else to offer you and that maybe what I said wasn't helpful.

You sound like you're taking positive action which is great! Self reflection and working on your inner stuff can be a lot of work but it's worth it so don't get deterred.

I think we all feel pressure whether it is real or perceived "expectations from society" as to what goals and markers should be achieved at different stages of our lives. For example, Go to uni - travel - get perfect job - get married - buy house - have kids, etc.. Then when we're not meeting those "markers" we feel like shit about ourselves. I think sexual experiences come under that as well. It's hard enough getting even one area of your life in a healthy place let alone having everything perfect at once. We put so much pressure on ourselves and all it really does is steal the joy from our lives.

Good luck, keeping taking those healthy steps forward.

Hi HamSolo01,

Didn't scare me off, I have just been away the last week, glad you are able to find these forums useful and you have struck up a good conversation with Quercus which is great. Your posts a very positive which is a great thing to see to be honest... you actually are doing well even though it may not feel like it at time, I can see in your posts you are making progress which is great.

How's the last couple of days been since your last post?

My best,

Jay

well i think its appropriate i be honest here now... the last few days have been pretty average.

i keep holding out for graduation, but im actually very scared about what comes next. Working in the real world frightens me because its a sign that ill need to move on from uni. That bugs me because its a reminder about how ive wasted my time at uni by not making the most of opportunities that came my way. What's more is that im just numb. Ive felt like crying but just couldnt get the energy. Just feels like my entire situation is hopeless and im wasting my time, energy and youth.

The only positive is that i get to see a new psychologist this friday. With any luck i wont try and hide behind the veil like i do all the time. Glad ive ditched the old psychologist.

Ive practically lied my way into a job i enjoy doing - tutoring. I didnt do great in HSC but i did best in english and i pretty much gave myself an extra 15 ATAR points whenever ive applied to tutoring jobs, and 10 points on my english mark. Last night i was looking for more tutoring work, found a place looked really good, went to apply and the bloody thing wanted my hsc record... there goes that idea. The irony? the person who runs it sponsors beyondblue because of their mental health experience.... what a joke... here i am unable to apply...

i went out and caught up with a friend on saturday arvo then got invited to a party for her friend whom i knew. I hesitated at first but then knew it was a chance to fight off some of the social phobia i have. Went along, was nice, even made people laugh ffs... but i was told i looked bored at one point and that shattered my confidence. I thought i had a handle on this... all that progress for nothing.

anyway... things are bad. But yet im not suicidal (im close though) because i feel like this fridays appt with the new psych will be worthwhile.

Then theres the relationship stuff, the money stuff, the travel stuff, the body image stuff... i could go on at length really but i feel like ive wasted enough of your days.

Just done with all this.

Anyways, thanks for checking in :)

atm you guys are the only lifeline i have

Hi HamSolo01,

I just saw your post and saw that you're really hurting right now. You said...

i could go on at length really but i feel like ive wasted enough of your days

You need to know you're not a waste of anyone's time! You don't have to wait for a reply on here to post if you're feeling like crap. Even if that means writing 5 posts in a row to get all the worries out of your head. This is YOUR thread. It's a safe space just for you to say whatever you need to whenever the pain hits. And we're here for you ok.

Do you think you can get an appointment earlier with the new psych? I was wanting to say earlier that I agree the old psych wasn't helpful. I dwell on painful subjects sometimes that's all I can think about because they're overwhelming me. Just because you've spoken about it before doesn't mean it's not an ongoing issue for you. I hope you find the female psych understands this too.

You've taken some really positive steps even if it doesn't feel like it. Going to a party with anxiety is absolutely massive (believe me I've been there!). Were you actually bored? Before the comment it sounded like you were enjoying yourself. In future maybe you can just say... I get a bit anxious in crowds but I'm not bored. Might even get them talking some more. But the main thing is you're making an effort and that is a fantastic thing. Being out of your comfort zone is always exhausting but at least you can say you are trying. That is something to be very proud of.

Arrgh I have more to say but my kids are demanding breakfast and the loo and generally irritating me. So I have to go for now. Take care ok and keep talking we are listening to you.

Ok the immediate concerns for the kids are met so I'm back.

I kept thinking about how you said...

I get sick of counselors, friends, psychologists and doctors and families saying "oh you'll meet someone" or "everyone has their time" or "it's just a silly thing people do" but in actual fact it exists whether you like it or not.

My friend mentioned the same thing once. I realised how much harm comments like that do. So I'm sorry I offered similar crap at one point. I should have known better. It's hard as a woman to understand the concept of feeling less of a man but I have had it explained to me before. He told me it was hard to feel an equal to other men because he knew they would judge him. He said he felt inferior to other men and had a sense of shame and embarrassment. I didn't really understand this at the time because as a woman I felt embarrassed and ashamed because of my sexual experiences. It's ridiculous how we are moulded to expect ourselves to live up to certain standards.

He would go to his sporting club and there was a constant discussion of sex and women and he felt embarrassed that at his age he had nothing to contribute (he was your age) and would withdraw.

His self esteem was shattered because his family kept asking him if he was gay. The confusion and self shame he carried around was constant and in his mind was unresolvable unless he'd slept with a woman. Such pain to carry around every day and it astounded me how fundamentally different women and men are. I couldn't understand the pressure.

Do you feel like this?

hey thanks for getting back!

when the person said i looked bored i could of said that i get anxious in larger groups. Like they were all real nice people, not the common garden variety person you'd see on the street. Its funny because i think back now and it woulda been okay to say it. Part of the conversations we were having actually revolved around dating and a lot of the girls there were talking about total ass holes they'd been involved with or had to put up with. Including my friend whose ex was a jerk to her and continues to be as well. Men and women are VERY different. Hearing what some of them went through... seesh.. But i joked with one of them afterwards that i felt better about myself after hearing about all those weirdos haha.

Having said all that, groups like that are rare and ill likely never see them again. because they are out of sydney and it was a once off. But in the end im happy i went :)

and yes, you've practically described EXACTLY what im talking about. The environment of a sport club with "the blokes" can be a savage one for the guy who has no gf, nothing on his 'sexual resume', no relationship in the past. It plays into that whole girls are smutty if they hook up heaps, guys are frigid or gay if they dont hook up heaps.

I never talk about this stuff with my parents. Why would i lol? sex is awkward to talk about with family. I know for a fact im not gay. As surely as the earth is round lol.

Without wanting to sound arrogant, im not a bad looking guy. I'd describe myself as being in division 5 of the genetic lottery (so you win something, but then there are those who won so much more haha). I've been told I "look good".

Heres the thing though yeah... I wont accept any of it. You know why? it counts for nothing. These days you practically have to be terrible to women if you wanna earn respect from your male friends. Its screwed up. But if you wanna be included you have to do it. Its a toxic attitude. I feel like travel might be a solution to that as you are free to "explore ones passions" shall we say.

I kinda like the idea of being an outlier. A non-conformist even.

For some reason my last post did not go through... -_-

I must be on some forum hitlist now lol. Anyway..

When my friend's friend said I was looking bored I was able to turn it into a bit of a joke. But when you said that I could've been honest, it dawned on me that I really could've been. The group was a good one and I liked them because they were genuine people. It's always hard when you are the new person that no one else knows (despite the fact I knew 3 people there, it was still hard at first). It won't happen again, because it was a one off but hey... it's something I guess? It's also funny too because the topic of relationships came up but a majority of the stories the girls had were about weird guys who were just creepy/strange/odd. I joked with one of them that I felt better about myself after hearing how weird some people are. Yeah I might be nervous/awkward at first but at least I'm not THAT weird.

That perfectly sums up my attitude towards 'being a man' too btw. What your friend described is dictionary-level modern man syndrome. The sports change rooms back in high school always made me laugh that when you are stripping down to change into sports gear in high school you could be accused of being gay for wanting privacy in the cubicle. Apparently wanting to dress down in front other guys isn't? hahaha. Sometimes they would make us use part of the girls bathroom if there was renovations (but not at the same time of course as that is illegal). Even then you'd be accused of being a girl lol. High school was a treat :P

I imagine it's probably worse these days in high schools. Much the same in sports locker rooms at 23. Your friend is correct though. There's a lot of shame associated with not having lost your cherry-card. It's the old girls are smutty for sleeping around, guys are 'real men'. I never talk with my family about this stuff. Too awkward. Plus if I have in the past it's always "you don't NEED a girlfriend" and it's like "you kinda do to fit in". People say I must have it good, or expect that I do because I'm tall, well-spoken and reasonably confident. But like they got no idea. All saying that to me does is make me feel worse off it's like a reminder that I'm only young once and it won't count later on. I can't help but think I don't want the respect of the dope. They ought to respect me right? That to me is the reality of being a man. You command respect from others because you choose. Easier said for some than others though.

At the end of the day, I think a culture that tells men what they should be is bad. In the same way it does for women. Men ought to figure it out for themselves. As should women. I'm a firm believer that social constructs are arbitrary and therefore aren't actually in existence. It's only there because we think it is in other words. Like the matrix lol.

The difficulty is however, that you must learn to temper the attitudes of your peers - both friends and acquaintances/enemies. They will likely make fun of you for your apparent 'lack of action'. Either you can lie about it, which only works if you are good at acting (which I somewhat am). OR you can own the decision and make it your own. Granted I probably can do the latter, because me saying "it's my choice" is believable (given that I'm tall etc etc... fit that whole 'typical guy' thing... people have said I'm reasonably good looking - both guys and girls lol but it doesn't count for much when you hate the way you look, want to change EVERYTHING about your life and you are depressed.... looks count for nothing. Plus there is more to people really.)

It wouldn't be believable if a 5 foot guy, pipecleaner build, who didn't know how to introduce himself and struggled with the core basics said it. Most guys would think he was a loser. Whereas if I say it's my own choice, people can respect it. I for one am terrified of attractive girls haha. The good thing is though, that I have some good female friends who I talk to occasionally about this stuff. I think that's why some larger or skinnier people can be happy, because they accept who they are and own the decision they make. I actually managed to speak to a girl today who was on the street raising awareness for a charity - even guessed her accent and made her laugh a bit. It's weird, I don't get it. I still get nervous. Then worry that I seem like a weirdo.

But alas, the loneliness and wonder of relationships is still something that makes me depressed. That's important to note too. There's a distinction between shame and depression over people finding out about my lack of action/relationships AND there's the depression and shame that comes with the lack of relationship/action. One involves the views/attitudes of others, one involves self-image, confidence and how I view myself. It's really the second one that I struggle with.. probably why I'm really good at getting into the 'friendzone'

I feel like travel is a solution? A way of breaking free?

Hey HamSolo01,

I'm glad to hear I'm finally on the right track going with what my friend told me once.

Yeah it really disturbs and worries me (having a son and a daughter) how it will all be by the time they are young adults. I feel like the world just pretends to be evolving and equal. My friend's 12 year old did sex ed recently and not once did they even talk about consent. Or the rights of both parties (not just the girls) to say no.

My friend told me another thing that stuck with me which you might want to consider. He explained how his mates would try set him up with women. Introduce him. And it would make him feel worse about himself. Is that all I'm worth? He asked. He didn't just want sex he wanted what others had. The connection with another person. I remember him being devestated after a one night stand saying he felt physically ill afterwards.

I told him there is nothing wrong with that! Where does it say just because you're male that you can't want a relationship and love before intimacy? It goes both ways people should feel free to be comfortable to do whatever suits them without judgement. Unfortunately we are our own worst critics.

As to the party... Take it as a learning experience. Next time you'll have that reply to use. If that group is going back to Sydney ask your friends what else is available. Is there anyone you can ask for help to get out a bit more?

I know my friends stopped asking me out at uni to everything because I kept refusing to go. But as soon as I mentioned I would like to go out somewhere they made the effort.

I know you mentioned travel but it doesn't need to be so out of reach. Sometimes It's just a matter of working with what you have and just making an effort to get out and put yourself in an environment where you can meet people. What do you think? Is that something realistic you could do?

As to attractiveness I have dramas with that. There is a thread called do you love yourself where they've moved onto talking about physical selves and how it affects being able to love yourself. It's worth a read.

I have massive issues with self esteem and self worth. You're not alone there in the slightest. Most of the time at uni I was completely oblivious if someone was interested in me simply because I saw absolutely nothing in myself worth being interested in. So I wouldn't have a clue.

I remember a bloke was saying I was too young to be married (ex made me wear a ring) and then chatting away for ages in the computer labs helping him out with an assignment. My friend was listening and laughed like mad saying how blunt does the poor bloke have to be. He practically tried every line in the book apparently (I had no idea) and I shrugged and said oh well at least he got his assignment done. My point is if you feel crap about yourself you can't see what you have to offer another person and your own worth. Or you mistake interest for indifference like I did.

Hi HamSolo01,

So much to take from your posts, can I firstly say you articulate very well, I can see why you did good in English. You get your points across and the way you describe them really gets the point across.

I feel I can relate to you on many levels because I dealt with so much of that stuff in high school as well, I was the guy always trying to treat girls with respect and be nice and courteous but it doesn't get you anywhere if you are seeking a relationship and it literally felt like you have to treat them bad and cheat on them to be somewhat respected, I find it extremely odd. I decided however that I was going to continue being a nice person and as you said own it, girls would eventually prefer to be treated well than like dirt, didn't get my first girlfriend until I was 18 either and I always felt I was behind too. I guess it's part of growing up, sometimes it's easier for others and you sort of just have to accept it as well, I find you are slowly starting to believe in yourself a little more, that's what I gather from your posts anyway. I like the fact you really believe and are excited this new psych will help you.. that is paramount to getting the best help... believing in the process.

As Quercus said as well, this is your thread, post as many times as you like, post a few posts in a row to get stuff off your mind, it can really help, others do it on their thread so please do and when we get on, we will catch up and comment accordingly.

My best,

Jay

well now my psych appointment got moved from the 12th (this friday) to the 26th........... what a joke.

Ah well. Looks like it's meds, forums, and treating myself better that'll get me over the next few weeks

With any luck it'll teach me some assertiveness in pressing on AND balancing that with getting help.

I have a list of priorities. Just has to be executed. Need to tune out from all that garbage spouted by the majority of the world. Going to try to go the gym every second day - i find it is a good way to channel the depression and anxiety, basically an outlet for it. Problem is sometimes I actually take it too far and I end up getting angry with myself for not being able to lift enough or push harder. Today was an example - didn't have enough energy as I had to walk back from the station instead of going into uni early as i was planning to do. Forgot my key to the gym.... Can you believe that?? I was soo annoyed.

Anyway. That's life in the big city I guess.

It's only 2 weeks anyway. I think I'll be able to hold out until then.

And yes the whole culture of treat them mean til they're keen is warped. It's often confused with having a joke, being flirty or making banter. The two are VERY different. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think that a girl should be mistreated just so that I can get into her pants. That's just fake. There's no real bond or connection. The curiosity of sex still remains, but it's not strong enough that I'll forego my values. My fear is that one day it will change, I'll chuck my values out the window and that's it then. That person you mentioned Quercus, who got set up and regretted it? Yeah same thing happened to me nearly. I had a mate try to set me up with his gf's flatmate. Rather than just say no thanks I was curious to see what she looked like. She wasn't my type. But I took the guts to say no thanks. If she was my type? Probably would've. But then I doubt I would've gone further. Despite the 'pressure' from others. I think I'll focus on reading good things and informing my thoughts better. Any ideas on that front? That's ultimately what I want I think.

So that's settled then yeh? You'll all go out and find me a girlfriend haha?

In the end I think I just need to refocus and readjust EVERYTHING in my mind. Start employing CBT in my spare time. Read up on good stuff - any ideas?

Thanks again though guys - it's really helpful :)

Hey HamSolo01,

I'm just about to go out (emergency TLC for a new mum) but saw your post.

Grr I hate when they change the appointment. Sometimes it's the lifeline you hold on to hey. But we're here and the reading is a great idea.

Also the group therapy you looked into... Any news on that? It's time to reach out and ask for support. Friends. Family. On here. Ask them to help you keep busy on the bad days. Keep taking those small steps forward HamSolo01 😊. The gym is great but having people around you supporting you is even greater. Is there a friend who will hit the gym with you? Or maybe a class they run at the gym where you might meet people to talk to?

I've recommended this a lot but it's beautiful...The New Manhood by Steve Biddulph. Pretty mich anything he's written. Raising Boys. Raising Girls. Manhood. You name it it's worth reading. And probably helpful as it challenges male stereotypes. Let me know what you think if you read it I'd be interested in a male perspective.

Take care HamSolo01. Little steps and day by day until you see the psych. It will be ok and we are here for you. Write and vent and talk whenever the need hits ok.

Ive considered making up a diary type thing where i record stuff that happens which is good and/or bad. Funnily enough im doing a subject atm which all about happiness (philosophy of it) and it has made me realise that i may actually have cause to be happy DESPITE dealing with this mental health stuff.

I spoke to my folks about this, figured there's just a HEAP of anxiety over what happens after i graduate. Thing is i dont have a steady job atm so im just freaking out. Im glad ive caught myself doing that though - opportunity to deal with it.

Despite the fact my psych got moved, ill probs still see the old one because i have got a session scheduled for this evening. Might as well air these greivances out yeh? Taks what i can.

Ill look into those books. They sound interesting.

Personally i think the thing atm which is triggering most of my depression can be summed up in a single word - regret.

Regret over the last 4 years of my life basically. But i must always remember it could've turned out much worse. I used to be very religious. Like VERY and that was my own personal choice. I have my reasons for steering clear of it now. But i remember thinking that i mightve ended up at bible college. The thought makes me shudder now. So im glad i dodged the bullet (or nuke.. take your pick)

The whole relationships thing i think lends itself to my inability to count my blessings. In high school i had ZERO female friends. Its funny reallly. Ive changed a fair bit. Even as i type this out, im at uni waiting for class to start and i managed to speak to a girl from the class. Just something vague about what room the class was in. Funny considering an hour ago i was uber depressed because of my exam result (which i knew i would fail). That goes back to the regret thing as well.

Anywho.Venting helps hhaha

Hi HamSolo01,

That's great that you spoke to your parents. Work and the 'real world' huh. Well if you figure all that out let me know 😊 I'm 32 and still have no idea what I want to do. Just keep plodding along in my job because it's stable and flexible hours. You're right though being financially stable is a relief so work is important. That book I mentioned has a chapter about meaningful work. Clearly I haven't read that chapter yet.

Regret. The word that gives me shivers. I do understand that. I regret letting someone control me so completely when I was at uni. I regret missing the fun and experiences that uni had to offer.

But the hard part is accepting I can't change the past. I am starting to get that now. I need to accept my past is what it is. BUT...I can change my present. And I can change my future. Is that something you could think about? What changes can you make now so that you start enjoying your life now? Even tiny changes.

You've already started. The gym, psychologist, psychiatrist, going to the party, talking to new people, talking to your parents, opening up to friends, joining BB forums...

Just keep trying HamSolo01. That's all I'm doing. Little steps to feel better 😊