Hey Lynda - i think if there's a physical issue it's a whole different ball game. But a definite missing link is relationship comfort - so I totally understand your position.

Hey Apollo

I will try to find your other thread...I hope you are doing okay. I havent been too bad....and thankyou for asking too:-)

My Best

Paul

Hi dear Lynda

I wanted to reply to your post , I am a little embarrassed to be honest, as I am a very private person when it comes to this topic of men and women. But I just really wanted to thank you for your suggestion in regards to "How to Laugh your way into a Good Marriage" DVD. I watched it on YouTube in six parts. It helped me to understand men, well my man much more, especially how the brain works in some men. ie, some men's brains sort of have stuff stored in boxes. Where as most women's brains are like jumbled up wires, where everything in our lives is sort of connected. Well thank you ever so much again dear Lynda, for it did open my eyes.

With kindness

Shell xx

Hi Shell. Bless you for your kind words. The dvd, was the best thing I was ever introduced to. I think it explains the sexes better than the book entitled Men Are From Mars etc. The book, although excellent in it's day didn't really touch on the emotional side, trying to converse, trying to understand each other etc. My ex-hubby watched the dvd with me before we parted, but tended to disagree with most of what it said. I think, in his case, the truth was a bit more than he could handle.

Lynda

AB, give it a go, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Watch it yourself, curiosity might get the better of her. It is funny, but educational in a positive light-hearted way.

Lynda

I've tried everything Lynda - this can't hurt. I'll see if I can YouTube it.

not sure if anyone actually answered OP's original question??

the answer is NO

Hey Apollo

The answer is YES! from me I would take it personally! There may be some girls on the forums (not just your thread apollo) that are doing it tough when it comes to physical intimacy that may be having a physical problem or possible surgery.

Okay...as for myself, and with all due respect to the girls on your thread. I am so tired of 'some' girls using 'Sex as Weapon" (As Pat Benatar's track was titled in November 1985....'Sex as a weapon')..google it!

Like yourself I am more than aware that 'no means no' and thats spot on. However I have been hurt big time by girls that dont 'understand' or get it when it comes to a guys sex drive is concerned.It has left me so very alone and isolated when I was only feeling like 'mother nature' intended me to.

It was gut wrenching for me Apollo...I do hear you and I remember taking it personally.....Paul

I think feedback is great and I appreciated Lynda's comments. At the end of the day it started trying to provide some insights for steven1. Input from women on this topic can be very enlightening. I'm certainly going to look up that dvd and see what I can learn.

But I'm 100% with Paul regarding the pain that men can feel when rejected repeatedly. Especially when it's being done as some some of punishment. It's either that or women (some) have no idea what negative effects they have on their man.

Hey Paul

the reason we shouldn't take it personally is because ultimately that doesn't help. I think it is important however to differentiate why it's happening in the first place. If it's because the woman has lost attraction well that's out of her control. If relationship comfort is lost because he's a lazy slob who doesn't pull his weight then fair call. Now the difference is that if your wife is BSC - i.e. "Crazy" then there is no amount of work that can be done by the husband to fix things. Ultimately it ends badly, and by the sounds of it you and I fell into that category Paul. Whether or not it's for punishment as Mr Cool says ultimately demonstrates a mentally unwell (think BPD) partner who cares not for her other half's needs, feelings or long term welfare. Bringing up a sexless relationship in this setting is likely to cause a nuclear explosion and campaign of beating down the "I'm taking it personally"'partner back into their previous passive mindset...

Hey Apollo, I was responding to your earlier post that "no one has answered the OP's question." I do understand that I shouldn't take it personally as per your new post above so I will just say what I actually feel from my perspective on your very broad topic.

Can I re-phrase please?....If a partner refuses to make love or have sex with me..'it hurts my feelings'...a lot!

Thats as fine tuned as I can get it :-)

Paul

Hey Apollo, you never make things worse...ever. I am also so far removed from sex these days I am actually losing the 'care factor' for it. (the desire)

There are never any experts on this topic. I just hope you are doing reasonably okay with what you have been going through.

Always here for you Apollo

Thanks again Paul, always good to hear from you. Interestingly that's why they say men should do manly things with men. Not only is this getting a need met, it als stimulates testosterone production and therefore libido. I don't think this is scientifically backed up.

Anyway, you're right, there is a lot of mixed, inaccurate info out there for men trying to address this area. A lot of the info is unhelpful but it's also a massively complex one with so many variables.

Hope you're doing ok!

I've now watched the Utube videos on "How to Laugh your way into a Good Marriage". I was very impressed. Reinforced lots of other concepts related to how men and women are different, and it looks at what both sides need to do.

Lots of smaller clips on Utube, but it's the full version 4 hours 41 min and the YoMama 1hour 15 min that have all the info. They are long but you can just watch it in sections.

Does have a religious undertone in some areas (he is a minister) but even if you aren't religious (I'm not) it still makes sense, and it's delivered in a fun, upbeat style. You will laugh, it's very funny, but also so true.

The goal would be for both husband and wife to watch it together, a bit of a marriage education session. I'm going to watch sections with my wife and then discuss how it relates to our situation. I'll make my comments and ask her to do the same.

One other item I found which I thought was a great question for partners in difficulty. Ask them the following question. And you should defiantly ask yourself the same question.

"Ask yourself this question. ("What's it like to me married to me?") "

It makes your partner (or you) look at things from the other persons point of view. Very non-threatening, no blame, and gives a little insight as to how well we are actually working to improve the relationship.

Thanks for posting steven1

i can totally relate to your issues and especially when it feels like the one thing you long for is a healthy intimate marrage well that's the case for me and I does hurt and makes you think your not good enough. I don't have any answers for you as I'm still trying to salvage what's left of my life, but I wanted you to know that your or alone in this

Thank you to everyone who commented on this post very helpful.

Hello, it's very reassuring to be able to discuss this issue in a safe environment without judgement from others.

My mild depression ( although I can say I had extreme periods of more serious depression throughout my marriage) definitely affected my sex life with my now ex husband. I guess you could say his abusive behaviour, lack of support, and non willingness to try to understand what I was going through, contributed to my depressed state.

I basically went cold within a few years of marriage. I certainly didn't want to and didn't intend it to go that way, but the sadness in my heart due to mis treatment from my husband at the time ( who was supposed to love me, no matter what) led me to just go off him, in the end I was repulsed by his touch. This had a lot with the way he was as a person as well though.

Me going cold definitely led to the demise of our marriage. Upon reflection as 4 years later after separation, I'm now extremely relieved I'm no longer with him. One person being depressed, tired, anxious, sad, isolated and so on, just does not enhance a sexual relationship. It makes things very hard.

But for those in a relationship and having problems with the sexual aspect of their relationship, if you love each other, hang in there. I think you get more pleasure from giving more and making someone else feel good, it doesn't take much, help out more around the house, bath the kids, make your partner a cup of tea in bed and so on. You would be surprised how much response you get from someone when you give lots of love, support and understanding, and focus less, on what you can get from them in return

Hi Jacko777,

I really liked something you wrote in your post, "give love without expectation".

I have met someone ( after a 15 year marriage breakdown- 4 years ago now) who suffers with severe depression and anxiety, and he told me this right from the start. I think he also occasionally thinks about suicide. He runs very hot and cold. It would be much easier for me to not get involved and walk away as we are only in the early stages of a relationship. For many it would be too hard and too tiring.

For a month or two I really took offence when he would shut me down (he's never ever been rude or mean, ever) , but instead of withdrawing away from him, I keep reinforcing that I'm here for him and give him as much love and support as he needs, without suffocating him. I let his short responses and aloofness wash over me ( as I said before he has never ever been nasty or rude).

Perhaps I'm not far enough into the relationship to be completely worn out yet, but the more love I send his way, the happier my heart is and the more "whole" I feel as a person.

And I've stopped expecting back. He surprises me regularly with his warmth, kindness and compassion. And it comes at the most I expectant moments and gives me so much joy. It blows me away. It shows with some people, you can never truly predict what path your relationship will take.

What he gives me back in his raw honesty is enough to make me try harder and give more to him. And this in turn is just making me happier.

Hello Country Girl 72

You are a breath of fresh air on the forums and Welcome to you! This isnt my thread (topic) but I do respect your strength to get on this thread and bring up some really good points for the guys on it. Nice1 :-)

You have been treated badly by your ex husband which is to his detriment....and his loss...not yours. No one should have to go through what you have especially the abuse and lack of understanding you did. Thats a guy that doesnt know what he's got until your gone.

Pat Benatar released a track in the 80's (where I still live lol) called 'Sex as a Weapon'. The track is readily available on utube. The track is 30 years old and worth a look...especially the lyrics.

I have given everything I have....the cleaning...the breakfast in bed...the cups of tea..cooking dinner....and I clean a tiolet/shower better than any girl I know :-) But...then I get taken for granted as a kind and gentle guy and get walked over including having sex (making love) removed from the relationship whenever its suits

Even though Pat Benatar released 'stop using sex as a weapon' from a girls point of view I still find sexual 'shut down' offensive as a caring and thoughtful guy that has always given his heart to a relationship. I even grow my own roses and pick/cut them for a partner.

Your last paragraph of your post makes solid sense to some of the guys that may be a 'yobbo' or 'insensitive' in nature. I have always focused on how much kindness and TLC I can provide to a partner and have never thought about what I can get in return. I was brought up that way.

I do understand though where you are coming from CG. Its a huge help to the guys that 'just dont get it'

Kind thoughts for you Countrygirl72

Paulx

At the end of the day if you're not getting what you need from your marriage - do something about it. I did and it resulted in the end or our marriage. I've come to realise that my soon to be ex-wife isn't a nice person and that's something I can't live with.

If you're being abused - probably best to get out of the relationship. I spent many years not even realising I was in an abusive marriage and continually strived harder to be more "nice" and make things better - just like Paul.

If you're not pulling your weight - well, get your act together, that's pretty straight forward.

For sure "give love without expectation" - however if this is what you are doing and NEVER get anything in return, you are in a completely one sided relationship. Go to point #1 and do something about it

Thank you ! I re read my post and thought "mmm maybe a bit washy washy to some", but what I was really trying to say, in a very long winded fashion, is what a difference kindness and support makes from your partner/ husband, if you are a sufferer of depression.

I'm taking a walk on the other side of the fence now, and trying to navigate a difficult relationship with a complex man, but because of what I didn't receive in my marriage, I'm prepared to give it my all, with this other man.

And I'm sure it will be worth it. If you put lots of good things out there, it will come back but maybe in different forms that can't be quantified.

Or maybe, in the end, you just don't give up on the person that you supposedly love, with all your heart. Love is the answer.

Want real honesty?

Girls and Guys brains are 100% different! We can switch out sex drive on. We don't see a nipple and get an erection straight away! Hello, man are from Mars and girls are from Venus.

Some times we are not in the mood. Some times we feel insecure about our bodies always having to see the perfect figure on tv and magazines? Mabye we got so much on our mind we forget about it.

Once we feel loved and connected on in a deeper level, understood and encourage then we are more then happy to have sex.

Hi Mr Cool, hope all's well.

I really don't believe that women use sex or lack there of, as a weapon. Sorry Blond guy I know that as you're stuck in the 80's citing Pat Benator (!!) that you believe we females have such an agenda. Really, who has got the time to formulate stuff like that in their heads? !!!!, unless there is some personality disorder at play.

Perhaps there are some out there that think like that, but I really don't think too many do. Many of us are just bloody buggered, expected to perform ten times the jobs that women performed in the 1950's, be intelligent, hard working, an extreme multi tasker AND a sex kitten in the bedroom. Maybe it is something to do with what modern men, now expect of modern woman.

Shutting off the sex/ intimacy tap can come about, from many reasons, not necessarily to do with the man. It can be more about a woman's needs not being understood. And like I said before, she's just bloody worn out.

It's very very hard for both the woman and men in these situations, I really don't know the answer. Hell, I'm still looking for the answer!

Just don't give up, and always do the best you can do. And the 80's was a wonderful place to be... So simple. I think these days, life is more "Love is a Battlefield" thanks again to Pat Benator.👍

Lots of luck

Hi CG, you are an excellent communicator. The reference to'Sex as a Weapon' was tongue in cheek but I hear you loud and clear. I am proud to have been a great partner that has been gold to my ex. I was brought up to be understanding and kind towards women. I cant find a girl that can reciprocate my feelings.

Maybe some guys with a yobbo attitude need a wake up to be more understanding. I am happy with how I am towards girls where respect and understanding is concerned.

You nailed it with 'Love is a Battlefield'..great track too...:-)

Paulx

Hi Apollo

Its been awhile. I have been reading the posts and trying to keep looking ahead, just feeling my way.

Thank you so much for your reply.

Yes I have children. Two boys. My eldest moved to Japan 3 years ago and my youngest is in the final year of Uni.

15 years is a long time. I cannot say that there have not been good periods but the duration of the good times was always very short and the interval between them always grew longer.

No progress to report on the relationship front since March, other than to say that my wife briefly engaged in a reasonable discussion which raised my hopes for a time. It didn't take long for her to forget the discussion and revert to her normal position.

This week I have passed through the bitterness and resentment. I have arrived at realization, after counselling a young employee on personal matter she then returned the favour with remarkable insight.

I am now making plans for myself and renewed happiness.

A new job.

A new state.

A new life.

I have finished flogging the dead horse.

With this decision made I now feel liberated.

Thank you to all who share, advise and counsel.

You will never fully realize the enormity your empathy and support provide.

Thank you all.

Hey all,

Thanks for posting these thoughts.

I'm caught in the same loop as everyone else and in a particularly down patch at the moment. Hard not to take it personally. My partner and I usually have sex once a month. It last for 10 minutes. I do everything, she lies there and doesn't touch me at all. She says she likes it that way and every other position/approach is far too much effort.

We have kissed (passionately) for a good 5 years. She hasn't given me a physical compliment at all in this time. She doesn't touch/hug/caress/come near me. In the other direction. it's completely the other way. I massage her most nights (she feels neglected if I don't do it for a week).

I'm wary of smothering and we talk about that regularaly In fact, our relationship is amazing apart from the physical intimacy. We communicate more than any couple I know. We are thoughtful with each other, amazing friends. We align on the important issues, especailly around parenting.

I'm 100% aware and feel very strongly about people not having sex when they don't want to. I don't want that kind of sex. I don't want it out of obligation - I want it out of passion. Yeah, passion is the word that describes what I'm missing.

I've tried everything: backing right off for a couple of months, forcing the issue. I exercise, meditate, read and basically make sure I'm in peak condition for my own sanity and to make sure I don't let myself go.I've tried romance. I've tried talking directly about it. We've tried counselling. My wife even said (reluctantly) that I could sleep with other people. I was so offended and hurt. Then I made plans to do this. But I just couldn't. I'm not like that - it's not how I'm built.

This issue clouds my head so often. I'm always doing things to reduce tension in the relatinship, in the bedroom. To make things easier. To accommodate. To satisfy all of her needs (sexual, emotional, day-to-day) and I get so frustrated that this important need of mine is just completely neglected. What am I supposed to do? I'm so sick of the phases of feeling so low, then learning to ignore it for a while, then it happening again. I'm so nourished by the relationship, but so undernourished sexually and with all forms of intimacy. Really don't know what to do.

So sick of the hurt and rejection. So sick of feeling low.

What do I do?

Welcome to the Beyond Blue forums Deep Breath.

It sounds to me like you have much compassion and understanding, you are doing the right things. I wish I had some answers but in fact I am in a very similar situation.

I thoroughly recommend that you find a good counselor and talk to them about how you are feeling. Even if you cannot find solutions for your relationship you will find ways to feel better in your self. What did the counselor that you have already seen recommend?

This situation doesn't make you a failure, I know you are not getting what you want and deserve but you have responded exceptionally well, don't forget to take some satisfaction from that, daily.

Jack

Maybe you're looking out for her needs too much? Can you elaborate on this - "I'm always doing things to reduce tension in the relatinship, in the bedroom. To make things easier. To accommodate. To satisfy all of her needs (sexual, emotional, day-to-day)"?

I'm assuming you've read the entire thread. I always recommend Athol Kay. If you haven't read his books, I suggest doing so. If you think you've tried everything, I would recommend arranging a coaching call with him.

Her saying go and do it with someone else is a major red flag. I'm assuming you've ruled out a) medical issues b) her having an affair?

When I was married: If my wife wanted me to sleep with other women... geez, I was like you in this regard... my sex belonged to her, it was not for me to give out to others; even if she allowed it to happen. That is not me.

However, in hindsight, perhaps I should have asked her if she wanted to share me with her friends. Hmmm, sometimes I wonder if she wanted another to join us (her).