Just take that "goodbye" on board.

If She is willing to loose all the other 167 hours per week She could spend with you, because of u seeing ur parents 1 hour per week. Well that's her call. She is essentially saying that all those wonderful 167 hours per week with you, aren't good enough to cover that 1 hour u have with your parents.

Doesn't seem like a reasonable position to me. U?

She has now come back with it can call my parents when ever I want but she wants two weeks of me working on us first before I go and see them for the hr a week.

Is this a reasonable comprise?

It's fairly reasonable... consider...

You might say, well I'll call parents tonight, then the two weeks starts with Her tomorrow, then on day 15 I'll call my parents again but this time maybe for a 2 hour chat, and from then on 1 hour per week.

Another just popped up U77.

I recall u mentioned She's been taking your phones and also demanding to check them. Are you comfortable with that? I'm not personally, it's a deal breaker imo.

Is She going to come back to you one day and say, look u been on your phone for 90 minutes to your parents this week, that's breaking the rules, etc.

So ask for MORE than u might want/need to give yourself leeway to negotiate.

maybe : If i'm on a long drive by myself, or otherwise by myself, and I want to talk with parents/kids and you're not there, you have no say over that at all.

Hi dng

we were looking like having another good everything was looking good, I said I would ring my kids explain the weekend deal with them then call her back. So I called the kids spoke to them they were ok about it. Sent a text saying just having something to eat quickly call you in 5. Wasn't good enough couldn't wait called me then says that's not putting me first I won't come second to a sandwich. So I said this is no different to what is was like before I can't do this I won't be controlled. She said ok bye and has blocked me

ok, do you notice how she's putting her needs ahead of yours.

You can't eat, because I need to talk with you right now.

Sometimes that's reasonable, sometimes its not. Do you think it was reasonable that particular time?

A possible response, and because I'm diabetic I can say, well I had to eat right then because that keeps my blood sugar levels optimum.

Or, I wanted to eat the sandwhich right then so I wouldn't be hungry when having an awesome long chat/time with you directly after.

Or, ok goodbye thanks for...

or,..

Google the following, I reckon it'll assist...

Assertiveness - Better Health Channel Victorian Government

dng.

Morning U77!

I thought I'd just chuck up this lightening mood breaking way to say "see you later" or "goodbye". Its a book title from Douglas Adams works.

So long, and thanks for all the fish.

That might be a useful thing for you to do when She is breaking off communication angrily, something that acknowledges her anger and reflects it away harmlessly.

Arvo U77.

What shall we do about it mate?

dng.

Basically she wanted me to spend 100 time with her until she was ready for me to see my kids or parents, I was happy to compromise and happy to put in the effort but I wasn't happy about not having my kids with me as often as I can, that wasn't good enough. It had to be until she was ready. I don't even think she wanted me to work/run my business which has suffered enormously. She was apparently taken to hospital because her heart stopped for 7 mins, she has had a heart attack and stroke rhe next day but the daughter sent me nearly 200 messages asking about our relationship, questioning me what my intentions are and there is no compromise.

im just not sure how true this was because less than 24 hrs later she was breathing on her own and now was about to call me. After I said I wanted to be able to see my family and friends

Yo U77.

I suggest you do a bit of research on cardiac arrest. I have briefly, on our behalf, and discover an overall impression that if ones heart arrests/stops for 7 minutes prior to hospitalization, that one is likely to be in hospital until the doctors find out what happened.

Similarly with stroke on a day after cardiac arrest... did the stroke happen in hospital and then they let Her out?

I am somewhat dubious, if that's the case.

I note you are unsure of the veracity too.

But, if we just take it all onboard, what changes?

If those are lies, then they are truly an act of legal fraud. Take it to police for investigation please.

If those are truth, then crikey that's one strong lady! Do you want to be around someone who is that strong, that they can suffer cardiac arrest and stroke all in 48 hours and then still be asking about your intentions through her daughter?

As an option, we obviously do have to recognise that survival needs are highest needs on the bargaining table. Might She die if you stop relating to her? Because if She implies that, well that's another expression of emotional manipulation in DV situation.

I am highly concerned about this direction U77. stay safe mate.

I am highly concerned because if She honestly believes her life is being threatened by something you aren't doing, or are doing, then She may well undertake more drastic means of expressing herself.

dng.

Interesting... Risks. Is the daughter attempting to emotionally manipulate you?

What might the daughter gain from doing all this confidentially?

So things are getting out of hand now, with the daughter interpretating wishes of She. Much harder to advise.

Do you feel a visit to the hospital is a nice thing to do? What does daughter think of that?

If hospital trip, then what is purpose of hospital trip, etc....????

If no hospital trip, then what? Phone She??? Leave She for good? Wait for her to leave hospital then contact?

I am concerned that if SHE finds out you are discussing matters with she's daughter, then she may become more upset with you!

I personally don't like people talking about me behind my back. If they want to talk about me, do it with me, in front of me please is how I feel.

anything else U77?

Obviously it’s unacceptable to have you not spending time with your kids. Your kids don’t like her?

As for the hospitalisation there should be a way to find out how accurate that is?

It’s a tough situation Unsure. She clearly still wants you - doesn’t want to be washed clean of you all together, but definitely some odd demands....

Did you say she had bipolar disorder? From what I’ve picked up on out of what you’ve said there are a lot of traits consistent with personality disorders...

Yes she does have bi polar but as far as I know doesn't take her medication.

the kids and her had a falling out early on in the relationship but were still willing to talk to her, she thinks they hate her and treated her terribly.

U77.

Well if you feel the need to test the veracity of "daughter" vs "She", then ask to visit the hospital.

If they deny that, you have some information.

If they give that info you can remove potential of daughter in discussion by going to hospital for a friendly visit and reaffirming positions with She.

Maybe something like, Hi SHE, I have 400 sms's from your daughter, and I am really worried about you. Can I come to the hospital for a visit, I have some nice flowers/gift to brighten your room. love U77.

or... I have lots to talk about, can I come for visit to hospital?

or We have lots to discuss, do you want a chat over the phone tonight/today_sometime?

In a negotiation, presenting as someone else is a known tactic. It gives a person the ability to say things without owning the things they say, for they have plausible deniability.

So any and all positions that seem to come from daughter may likely be She's testing your positions.

Do you follow? from our military perspective, it is akin to spoofing the radar with chaff and decoys.

Sun Tzu, describes it as, seeming far away but actually being very close.

Yeh, it is a bit distasteful to ask for a hospital photo. I'd agree with that.

Time for some information gathering techniques then...

You can however phone up various local hospitals on behalf of a loved one and ask what ward is She in, and what are the visiting times of the Ward. So you could gather some info through online research on possible hospitals She might be at, see their published visiting times then ask...

Maybe > You can also ask HER, what are the visiting times at your hospital?

If she doesn't know and says she doesn't know, cool that's helping her tell truth.

If she attempts to deceive, you have possible true answers readily at hand.

If she is truthful, you have surety about it yourself.

So we try to cut through all the chaff sms messages... please can you provide anonymous retelling of some of those sms's please.

What seems to be the single most important thing implied or actually written?

What's the second most important thing?

and finally... What thing is repeated the most?

dng.

Yo, u77.

repeated most is my parents are liars?

repeated most is U77 is liar? u77 not putting She first.

U know her hospital location.

led to believe 400 sms from daughter. already mentioned to daughter don't do this discussion.

told by daughter, She will never see these sms, move on OR give 100% support, ignore friends/family until She ready.

*************

That all looks very much like the positions presented by She already. So we take it all on board, no worries!

She + She's daughter have same position together. Ok that's great news for YOU! because now you know She has support from family which makes you able to be less responsible for supporting She.

All your old positions remain exactly the same, only now She has weakened her position by acknowledging She has support from daughter.

Essentially the daughter has weakened She's position, in my opinion.

Does that make sense?

dng

Hey dng

i think I may have confused you a bit on the last post as she apparently been has only just woken and come too late this afternoon when I said I wanted to be able to see my family and friends and it be a two way street not one way. I understand it will take time to mend and build the trust again I just wanted the reassurance I could see these people.

Im that confused and upset by all this I feel I'm talking In riddles to you.

Hi u77. You could sms those messages to your own email account, that'll turn it all into text and then u can cut n paste here. somethink like that.

dng.

Hi unsure. It’s a little confusing trying to follow you two, but you seem to get what each other are saying lol. I know you probably don’t really care much for my two cents here and there, but I understood that you actually wanted to ring David and Goliath. I think the confidentiality requirements of this online platform would prevent you from doing that...

It seems very difficult for you at the moment, it seems like your ex fiancée is not only disordered in her mood but maybe like I said some personality problems as well... this would explain the not taking meds a lot and distrust of like everything you say and taking issue at every little thing....

From what I understand personality disorders are thought to usually stem from very unpredictable childhood environments where needs have been that badly not met that it results in the problems that you have been subjected to....

to make things worse, her daughter seems to have some of the same stuff (to make a really big guess based on what you’ve said)....

Hi U77! Just letting u know I c what ur saying. dng.