Hi Daniel,

It might be worth having a chat with your psychologist about it - the pandemic and lockdowns have made lots of people more socially anxious - you went through a very long lockdown in Melbourne and I think some people found mixing with people after being isolated for so long made them feel quite nervous through sheer lack of practice!

Hang in there! It's difficult times to meet people, let's hope things improve during this year!

🙂👍

Hi Daniel

How did your weekend go, especially in regard to the dinner? Did you feel yourself making any progress or do you still feel that 'stuckness'? If you felt stuck in the same cycle, simply means there's more work to be done before you begin to feel a difference. I believe one of the most common questions faced by a person conscious of the need for change is 'Why does progress feel so slow at times?'. This is something you rarely ever a hear a semi conscious person say, probably because they're oblivious to the need for change. Amazing how may people there are who don't feel that need. Such people can send us a little crazy at times, especially when we're left feeling the need for them to change in some constructive way :)

I mentioned your advice to my son and he smiled as he related to it. He asked me to pass on this thanks to you. We explored it further, the cool people thing, and came to the conclusion - the cool people will accept you (as you say) whereas the somewhat dysfunctional people won't. Whether it involves a bully stuck in a state of obvious dysfunction (to the point of abuse, aggression, degradation, humiliation etc) or a person who doesn't know how to function when it comes to bringing the best out in someone who's shy, we're going to face a variety of dysfunction or dysfunctional people throughout our life. Flipping perspective: 'How do I manage someone who doesn't know how to bring the best out in me?', the answer may simply be 'I don't have to manage them. I can politely have little to do with them, if that's the best course of action'. The ultimate conclusion: Look for the cool people who don't make such a big deal out of shyness. They're cool and calm when it comes to other people's shyness or lack of confidence or anxiety. They're laid back and can lead us to feel laid back too, enough to naturally bring out the best in us. The truly cool people have their ways :)

I imagine, the coolest of people will lead us to feel the least flustered. Perhaps, that's how we spot them. I imagine there have been times where you've been cool enough to lead someone to feel more relaxed. You might find this cool side of you in your soccer coaching, when it comes to helping younger people find the best in themself, while perhaps joking a little into feeling more relaxed. I imagine you're a pretty cool guy at times Daniel :)

Hi therising

The dinner Saturday night went surprisingly ok, I definitely felt anxious leading into it but I didn’t become overcome by it where I felt trapped in my head. I met my friends girlfriends friend which is who he wanted me to meet which is what made me anxious in the first place leading up to it because I didn’t want to seem weird. I felt like I was pretty normal though, was able to bring out my likeable/humorous side in a more relaxed way. I think the points you’ve made about the crowd/people you are around sort of rang true. I get along really well with my friend and his girlfriend and this girl was quite similar to me I felt in the regard that she basically admitted she’s shy at first. I’m a strange way I felt more comfortable as a result of that because with people like that I don’t feel like I’m on trial.

Sort of a weird situation now, I’ve met her once and my friend suggested don’t worry about adding her on social media or anything just yet just meet a couple more times in a group setting. Maybe that might benefit me to naturally get to know someone. I don’t really hold out much hope that it could go anywhere beyond a friend zone as that’s usually where I find myself.

I’m glad you mentioned that to your son and he can relate! Unfortunately I believe I found myself half in the right crowd and half in the wrong crowd when I was his age. The wrong side had more boisterous characters and it was very much a “boys club” type setting which never suited me and created immense pressure which I believe relates to those thoughts I have about “alpha males” now as I grew up around pressure to be something I wasn’t in order to be “cool”.

It’s funny now I think about further what you say about it, these people have never really brought the best out of me rather they bring out confusion and depression. I think because of that and possibly me not being strong enough to see through it I haven’t realised where I’m actually appreciated. For example with my soccer club I had been given the captaincy in 2017 and was captain until last year where my head injury caused me to stop playing. That could be an example where I am appreciated although I never gave it credit at the time even though I was voted by my teammates. Many of these issues I have and keep having come from that period in my life where I spent everyday worried about who I am and how I came across that I didn’t actually develop I believe. It still leads to a lot of depressing periods for me.

Hi Daniel

I'm so glad the dinner went well and you could relate to each other in such a way. I love the vibe of someone who has nothing to prove. It's such a relaxing feeling. I have family members and work colleagues who give off this vibe and it makes it so easy to be around them. With such a vibe you can feel the freedom, to be yourself. They're the kind of people who don't state, in way way or another, 'You're wrong and I'll prove why. You're foolish and I'll give you proof... You're defective or dysfunctional in some way and here's proof of that. Your heartfelt beliefs are laughable and I'll prove it my laughing at you'. So many people who are more than happy to give us proof of how they've got it right (in their mind) and we haven't.

It's amazing how when you start to really get a feel for people, you can look back and gain a clearer sense of the dynamics of certain relationships. I use something you mentioned as an example. We could look back to our school days and describe the certain vibe of a person or people as 'Cool, calm and collected' because that's what it feels like at the time to some degree. With greater experience/reference, we could look back and say 'What I'm now feeling from them is a low or arrogant vibe, which can be depressing'. There lies the conflict. At the time we may have been feeling from them both cool, calm, collected and depressing, at the same time. The conflict isn't necessarily in us, the conflict can come from their conflicting natures and that's what we're feeling or sensing. Hope that makes sense. Just to elaborate: You can have a cool laid back person who is so laid back they don't feel the need to use a filter. So, without a filter they may simply feel the need to get a laugh but it comes to be at your expense, which can definitely be depressing to some degree, especially if their 'humorous' words are heartbreaking in some way. I smile when I think how we could feel a cool, calm and collected vibe from a Tibetan monk and we'd be guaranteed there'd be no depressing vibe at the same time, based on their level of consciousness, their level of awareness. I imagine the vibe they'd lead us to feel would be more so about a sense of peace, simple joyfulness and self acceptance. Personally, I never went to school with someone who had the vibe of a Tibetan monk :) In reflecting on those years, it felt more like a big pool of people struggling with the challenges that come with ego. Crazy days.

:)

Hi therising

Hope you’re doing well

I maybe because I felt that the person my friend wanted me to meet, based off first impression, is probably similar in nature to me I seemed to have felt at ease a bit or at the very least I was able to manage different moments of anxiousness I had during the night. I didn’t feel like I was on trial with the people around me like I have done many times before and I think naturally I was able to let myself show a bit more, sometimes it’s night like those that make me think maybe just being my quiet natured, calm self is good. Issues have arises when I’ve tried to be something else because I’m ashamed of myself.

I think that definitely makes sense the example you use, you put it much more eloquently than I can. I think through wanting to have friends and be accepted as a kid I felt that those around me were “above me” and “cool” and then as you mentioned without realising it at the time it would have led me to feel depressed.

It’s definitely spilled over into my adult life because I still have deep insecurities about it, for example (apologies for the crass example) but because I’ve been around the type of group I mentioned from school even in my young adult years I think as a young male it’s been a big challenge. For example, the number of sexual partners you have or haven’t had is thrown around like a competition sometimes and as someone who has been brought up the complete opposite and to be honest is shy about it it’s been a bit struggle to find my place as a male.

I’ve had and still have times where I question whether I am a man because of things like that and whether women would judge me whatever my experience or lack there of as a red flag.

The point of what I am saying is it’s been conditioned in me from this period from my teenage years and then early adult life (18-21). I’m constantly questioning my manhood as a result and it’s one of the key things that sparked all this depression and loss of identity.

That is why, and I know for certain you give your young son great advice, I mentioned previously that at your sons age my advice is find the 2-3 friends that WANT you around and that CHOOSE you and stick fat with them, don’t try chase a group that doesn’t value you which was sadly my mistake!

Hi Daniel

I've come to wonder whether the ultimate test in life is to flip or change our perspective. I have found once my perspective changes, I change for the better. Not only do I change for the better but I feel myself come back into the natural flow of life. Nothing quite like the feeling of being in the flow.

With you mentioning one of your challenges at school involving you seeing certain people as being cool and above you in certain ways, I see you as being more evolved than them in so many ways. If some of the challenges in life involve us evolving to be more open minded and less judgemental, more gentle and less harsh, more accepting and less rejecting, more of a careful listener and less of a talker, more sensitive and less insensitive, more considerate and less inconsiderate and so on, would you say (looking back) you were highly evolved or at a much higher graduation point? Did they still have a lot to learn? Bamm, you were already there at those levels. It's not about degrading them, it's about grading your own level of evolution or progress as a person. In hindsight, would you say you had to come down to their level, in order to be accepted? More of a 'heavy' ego based level than a soulful level. If so, how did the heaviness feel? Comparing those lists:

• Open minded
• Gentle
• Accepting
• A careful or caring listener
• Sensitive
• Considerate

vs

• Closed minded and judgemental
• Harsh
• Rejecting
• A non listener
• Insensitive
• Inconsiderate

If you had to choose a list, which one would you choose when it comes to who you want to be? If you chose the first, you're already that person.

My son would agree with you 100% when it comes to what should not be spoken of. While his friends may speak of their 'conquests', in regard to females, he comes from the perspective of respecting a girl's right to privacy over intimate matters. He cannot stand hearing about what is a girl's personal business. This is something that seriously agitates him to the point of anger at times. He's actually in the process of changing his friend circle for a variety of reasons, one being he just can't tolerate suppressing his anger toward people who laugh off his concerns or opinions. In his opinion, it's too much hard work, managing such intolerance and suppression. I asked him whether his new circle has a higher lighter vibe about them. His response, 'Absolutely'.

As I say, it's not about degrading others, saying 'I'm better than them', it's about focusing on the desired level we're at.

Hi therising

I definitely believe that I tried to changed myself in order to be accepted and it looking back I always felt uneasy in myself. I think I may have never really been comfortable in myself at all as my mindset was always how can I be accepted by friends, I never really thought about it from the way I felt. Kind of like putting these people on a pedestal.

I think this affects me a lot nowadays for example with dating. It’s not so much I don’t think I’m nice guy or whatever it’s more so that I think I am just a nice guy but that is unattractive because the people I grew up around are less nice and more arrogant. Like this sounds really strange and messed up but if I get called really nice by a date my head gets triggered by it to think “oh no she doesn’t think I’m a man” or “she thinks I’m soft” when I should take it as a compliment. It’s a big struggle I have because my default setting is to get down to earth but I have this insecurity that I need to be more arrogant or whatever like the group I’m around.

it’s the same when I was a kid I just always feel uneasy in myself like as a male is bad to be the way I am.

Im very glad your son has taken those steps now, he sounds incredibly perceptive, smart and courageous. I lacked the courage to do that when I was his age out of fear of rejection and embarrassment. I still have this now which is probably while I feel like I described above.

I tell myself the right person will understand but I’m not so sure lately, I’ve been really questioning whether I’m manly or whatever because I just come across nice, it feels boring and weak.

Hi Daniel

I can understand where you're coming from. It makes perfect sense. I think what doesn't make sense if how we're led to 'wing it' when it comes to gradually getting to know our self.

I imagine if we all started off with the ability to be a nice guy or a nice gal then we'd all start off on the same level. So, 'nice' is everyone's foundation, which would make life so much easier and far less depressing at times. Taking the 'nice' foundation and building upon it should perhaps be the goal we're all led to achieve. You'd have a nice guy/gal who's an adventurer, a nice guy/gal who's a good listener. Same goes for being a good lighthearted joker, philosopher, thinker, carer to others, lover of self and so on. Imagine having conscious lessons in developing the adventurer, listener, lighthearted joker, philosopher, thinker, carer to others, lover of self etc. Would make life so easy, that's for sure. So, where are the lessons? You can have the foundation of 'nice' without the lessons, when it comes to the craft of building upon that.

While I have much to continue building in my life myself, I think of the frustrations of being married to a nice guy who's lacking in what the relationship really needs, in my opinion. He is a nice guy who doesn't fully listen to what he feels needs work or is stressful, from his perspective. He's a nice guy who has no interest in adventuring or philosophising or wondering about a variety of stuff. So, with the foundation of being a nice guy, the relationship remains uninteresting. It's hard for me to maintain any interest in it.

Daniel, you have the foundations of a nice guy who is open minded and desires growth. This is a magnificent combination. You're a grower or a builder in the making, a craftsman in the process of crafting. I know it's hard but don't underestimate your abilities as a craftsman. Whatever it is you wish to build, develop it. You're such an incredibly brilliant person, in my opinion. From my experience, as I come to make greater sense of the darker moments in my past, the brilliance begins to grow and grow. I believe this is how consciousness works; it's a brilliance that grows over time, with greater awareness.

:)

Hi therising

Thank you for your kind words I really appreciate that, you are a truly wonderful person in my opinion.

I think when you mentioned for example being a nice guy but uninteresting that is the fear and insecurity I have. Like sometimes I feel like because I’m nice dates think I’m uninteresting or boring or I’m not classified as attractive or I just feel like a “friend”. I seem to have an issue with accepting it because I often have felt like I’m nice but what else am I that attracts people.

Then there’s certain instances that confuse me, for example recently by a few dates I’ve been told that it’s surprising I am nice given they think I’m attractive and would think I’m more narcissistic or something as a result. I feel like this is a compliment but the tone of the way these people have said it’s almost like they are disappointed or like they think my niceness is a lack of confidence. I don’t know if I’m taking this the wrong way in my confusion and depression in myself. It has been a common theme recently. Im just confused because I feel really unsure of how to act.

I feel like I’m grappling against the urge to change parts of myself like I have in the past at school and be more like those I grew up with and maybe I won’t feel this way, but logically I know this isn’t right. I’m really frustrated with myself that I can’t just accept it and move on, it’s disappointing that I view comments like this in a bad like and it makes me question myself.

I know I sound really stupid with the example I just used but I don’t really have a way of thinking of it to help me not over analyse when this is said. I’d like to think it’s a compliment but I just feel shot down at the moment. Sorry for my confusion I’m finding it hard to articulate to anyone at the moment.

Hi Daniel

It's hard to know what people are thinking sometimes. It's the blunt people who leave no questions unanswered. Sometimes I can feel stuck in the middle when it comes to honesty. In order to progress, I want straight forward feedback from people but another part of me doesn't want to hear it, for fear I'll crumble under their opinion. Whether you want a girl's honest reason for why you're not the guy for her is up to you. It could be something as simple as 'I'm not feeling the vibe, I just can't feel the chemistry'. Inquiring further, 'Why do you think this is the case?', you'd be looking for more than the response 'I don't know'.

I believe vibe and chemistry to be 2 interesting factors. Misinterpreting the vibe we're picking up on can lead to the wrong conclusion. When it comes to the vibe of a date, could women be sensing what's actually not there? Could a lack of confidence be felt as 'disinterest' from their perspective? Who knows. There's only one way to find out. If they're looking for an 'excitement' vibe in you and they can't feel it, could this be a possible issue perhaps? Hard to be excited when we're a little anxious. Hard to feel excitement if there are underlying factors at play for people, such as fatigue or depression, for example. Personally, I barely have enough energy to be able to feel excitement these days. I gotta work on that :)

With the chemistry factor, to simply say 'Those people have great chemistry together' doesn't cover all that's taking place inside the body. The chemical reactions that attract people can be intense. Sometimes the chemical reactions can be non existent too, based on a number of reasons. An example of no significant chemical reaction (enough to be felt) would be a mum experiencing post natal depression. If oxytocin levels are low, you can't feel love for your child. The chemistry's not there for you to experience the feelings that come with love. From my own experience with this, it's horrible (in so many ways), experiencing zero sense of love for your child. When I came out of depression, the love for my kids was overwhelming to the point of tears.

While I can't think of any good reason to behave/act like someone else (unless your an actor), there can be plenty of good reasons to look for parts of our self that may end up resembling others in certain ways. You don't have to act as the jester, to get a laugh, if you already have the jester aspect in you. The challenge is to practice channeling it.

Hi therising


I think you mention a point that my psychologist mentions also about receiving feedback. She mentioned that you need to be prepared for the feedback whatever it is, good, bad or indifferent but also need to realise it could also be a lie to spare you any hurt so try not to speculate. I think that’s an issue I have is my mind wanders and I speculate a lot.


I think there’s potential in what you say about a woman sensing a vibe that isn’t there from me. I think you’re example of lack of confidence coming across as disinterest is a good one particularly in reference to me. For example, maybe it’s not that manly to admit but I get rather nervous when I think about kissing a girl after a date. The nerves is born out of not wanting to make the girl feel uncomfortable or making it awkward and also I’m not the best at “making a move” so I get nervous/anxious and I don’t just “go for it” like my friends say and then I feel they may think I’m not interested.


In terms of chemistry, despite the fact I give myself no credit I think I have a good ability to get along with most people even if for example that date is a polar opposite character to me and it wouldn’t work I’ve still been able to make the interactions pleasant. It could be more so the other person contributing to this but I’d like to thing I have some sort of ability to gain chemistry with people at least at a friendship level as I’d be surprised if dates I’ve had would say they thought I was unpleasant to talk to. The challenge has been chemistry beyond this friendship level as I don’t feel I know what it is to have that.


Interestingly in relation to this and Id like to see what you’d think about this but I seem to have this really anxious dilemma where I may date a girl a few times and think she’s nice and we get along well and all that but I think long term we may not be suited. I feel incredible pressure that because we get along well and they may be nice that I have to keep pursuing it if they like me because I feel awful if I don’t, it just makes me feel unkind and false if I was to say I don’t see something long term. That probably makes no sense but i feel an enormous pressure that if someone’s nice and we get along and everything I HAVE to pursue it regardless of whether I think it’s a fit otherwise I’ll be classed like those womaniser types I’ve grown up around.

Hi Daniel

When it comes to that first kiss with someone new, I think it's about stating intention. We can state our intention in a lot of different ways. It can be done with a look, a pre kiss move, words or a longer than usual lead up (gradually creating a more and more exciting vibe over time). Looking back to my dating days, which is going back a bit, I think pretty much all of those were covered.

With the look, there can be a certain look that implies a kiss is coming. Whether you're the one offering the kiss or it's coming from the other person, it's the kind of look where it's like you can read each other mind. It's the look that establishes a deeper connection. With the pre kiss move, there can be dozens. Moving from one chair to another is perhaps the simplest move. It's about getting physically closer. Another move may involve taking care of that person. If you're out at a restaurant, taking care of the bill would be an example. Of course that only works if they're not someone who insists on paying their own way or they're not someone who's using you for your generosity. Words are possibly the toughest one because we can say the right thing, the wrong thing or something that sounds questionable. Giving someone a line, is about throwing a hook. Whether you hook them into a kiss with something like 'Do you know how hard it is for me not to kiss you?' which is a little corny but impressive at the same time in my opinion, right through to 'Do you mind if I kiss you?' which is partly about seeking permission, especially when the vibe's a little unclear, words can offer clear intention. You don't have to kiss someone on the first date, the intention may be stated through the words 'I can't wait to see you again'. One of the most passionate relationships I ever had was established through 'the lead up'. We'd connected on a few occasions and I could feel the electricity between us on each occasion. I just couldn't tolerate it anymore and had to kiss him. So, as the guy in the relationship, he didn't have to do anything.

I've found relationships to be an opportunity to bring out the best in each other and sometimes that takes time. If you feel she's just not the one from the start or it'll perhaps take more time to find or bring out the best in each other, sometimes it can be hard to tell. Not wasting time with someone you just don't click with doesn't make you a womaniser. Dumping women left, right and centre when you get what you want from them does.

Hi therising

Thanks a lot for the advice I appreciate it a lot!

I figure what you mention is what would need to happen, I am a bit shy with what stuff for whatever reason and I’ve been told I’m not “manly” because of that and it probably feeds into the shyness more because of those experiences. I can understand how someone might feel I lack interest if I don’t do it but I’ve reassured people in the past it’s not that it’s more im just a bit shy with it, then they’ve been judgemental about. So as a result Im even more nervous about it now because I don’t want to stuff it up either way.

I think you are right and I am definitely not the type to dump girls left and right after something like that as that isn’t my goal when I do see people, my intentions are genuine. I guess maybe I have a naive perception of it because I feel bad if I see someone 3/4 times and then say I don’t feel like, I almost feel obliged to continue dating particularly if I feel they like me and are nice.

My doctor has said that’s not a rational thought because you are not doing anything wrong by giving it a chance a few times and then deciding you’re better as friends because your intentions are genuine. I wouldn’t intentionally lead someone on, I like to give things a go if I find the person nice but I wouldn’t do anything inappropriate or anything like that I guess I just don’t like the thought of upsetting people.

Maybe I need to calm myself down a bit and trust that I’m not a bad person, sorry I go over some things a lot I’m a bit disappointed in myself that I seem to do this a lot. I’ve trying hard to work on it but like it’s time like this I don’t see progress because I keep stewing over things that I shouldn’t. It’d be nice to go through a week without having this doubt i carry around. I appreciate all that you’ve done to help and sorry if it seems like I going over and over things.

Hi Daniel

Going over things, over and over again, is part of the process that leads us to conclusions that make sense. I can do it quite often myself. Even my kids say 'Mum, what is wrong with you. I thought we'd covered this'. I thought we had too (in regard to my challenges), until I realise they're not entirely covered/resolved. I think we can gradually cover things, as we go along, until we get a sense that we've covered them entirely. Even then, you may realise you haven't (entirely covered it, just largely). Hope that makes sense. It's like you wake up a little more bit by bit, as opposed to suddenly waking up completely.

You know that saying 'To take the bull by the horns', to courageously get in there without hesitation, it's not unmanly if a guy doesn't take this approach. Sometimes, to be a thoughtful strategist pays off and it can be appreciated by other people. To stop and get a sense of things can pay off. Sometimes it can feel like a fine line between the 2, which way to go. I think that can be the confusing part. Depending on the circumstances (a date, work, friendships etc) different approaches work in different ways for different reasons.

I agree with your doc, 100%. Nothing wrong with giving things a chance, to see if they're going to evolve into anything. If it's all done thoughtfully and respectfully, including putting an end to things, you've shown consideration and respect. In fact, you've allowed the other person to move on to find someone they're better suited to.

Things will gradually begin to make more and more sense to you as you go along. At some point things will make complete sense. At other times, we can be left feeling more confused than ever in the lead up to making better sense of things. I've found it's all a part of the process of coming to know our self better. You could say it's a little like gathering puzzle pieces until you begin to see the overall picture.

:)

Hi therising

Thanks again for your thoughtful words, they always seem to calm me down when I read your posts when I might be a bit “hyper”.

I’ve been feeling incredible pressure and anxiety recently in regards to a few things which often sparks the thinking of the same thing over and over again and it all jumbles in one big mess of thinking.

There’s a situation developing by at the moment whereby I met a nice girl on a date and we enjoyed our time together but I know logically it would not work long term because of a few differences in character and friendship groups and things we do. I’m feeling an incredible pressure that I HAVE to like her because she likes me a fair bit I think even at this early stage (we’ve spoken on phone and chatted for a while before we met). I would like to go out with her again because I feel it deserves a second date even though I feel with my head it wouldn’t work long time we aren’t suited. When I say that in no way do I mean there’s anything wrong with her and that’s where the pressure. Because I think she’s nice and she seems to like me I feel huge pressure that I need to pursue and keep pursuing this otherwise I’m a bad guy.

Generally I’d like to relax and get to know someone gradually but I feel enormous pressure because it’s coincided with me meeting my friends friend and there being interest there too. I haven’t gone on a date with that girl but I’d hope it might build to that. Therefore I feel like a terrible person for keeping my options open.

I find myself incredibly anxious and I’m not relaxed, I really don’t want to upset anyone and make them feel bad at all about anything.

Since this started my minds been on haywire and I can’t stop feels like I am suffocating

Hi Daniel (and hi The Rising)

If you Google "dating is stressful" you'll find out just how tricky lots of people find it!

You can tell this girl you've met once a white lie, and say she's great but you've met someone else who you think may be better suited to you and wish this girl all the best. End of problem.

Or you go out with her again and then if it doesn't work out, you will have to explain that to her, and you both move on. You just do it as nicely as you can because you know yourself that rejection is painful.

As you can see, it's hard to avoid hurting people sometimes and you just have to try to be tactful and try to be as kind and decent about it as possible.

Have you tried the STOP method for overthinking? When you find yourself ruminating over and over you say STOP to yourself.

S = stop what you are doing

T= take a breath

O = observe. What is happening inside you, and outside of you?

P = proceed mindfully

I've found this technique very helpful.

Cheers 🙂

Hi Daniel

Hanna offers much sage advice. From the google suggestion through to how to manage overthinking, she offers a clear perspective on what can make a constructive difference.

Finding others who struggle with a particular challenge/set of challenges can definitely make a difference. Can lead to the realisation 'So, it's not just me who has trouble with this or suffers through this'. As I may have mentioned, I found this to be the case when I attended post natal depression group therapy. Everyone in the group had struggled with depression for many years in the lead up to the added challenge of post natal depression. We all related to the challenges that come with depression. It was a relief to discover what was normal, under the circumstances. I imagine you won't get many alphas who can relate to the challenges you face but you will find plenty of non alphas who do.

One of the things I've discovered with over thinking or over analysing is...you can feel when you're doing it. I'm still in the process of mastering when I'm feeling myself over thinking, while mastering recognising when and how to switch it off. I suppose part of it's about learning to read the different levels. From my experience, basically thinking has no real feel to it. Thinking beyond basic starts to generate emotion where you begin to physically feel your thoughts. Over thinking really starts to work up the nervous system. Before you know it, your body's beginning to vent (sigh). If you catch yourself sighing, it's often a sign of over thinking, a cue to settle things down. Finding a distraction can work but it's a matter of fully focusing on the distraction, not going back and forward between the 2.

Eckhart Tolle's book 'The Power of Now' is a best seller for good reason. It's about how to live in the moment without thinking (to various degrees). Fully living in the moment allows for things to naturally come to mind. For example, you could be thinking 'I truly like this woman who I haven't yet officially dated, whereas I'm not so keen on the one I've been seeing. What do I do?'. If the challenge is to get a feel for the right relationship, you'd have to initially see each one and then weigh up your feelings. The words 'Which relationship feels right?' may naturally come to mind, without thinking. In the meantime, not taking things to the next level with the existing girl while organising a date with the other to move things along, could be a considerate way of managing the process.

Hi therising

Yes Hanna offers great advice, I try this STOP method with a rubber band around my wrist flicking it when I start to overthink in order to "snap out of it", sounds strange haha

I think you are spot on with finding people who have experienced similar, even just posting on here has shown me that. I think also as I have been struggling with a lack of identity finding my crowd as you've mentioned before is important or at these those that value what I offer. I was away over the weekend to celebrate my future brother in laws bucks party, was a group of about 15-20 friends and myself and my brother as the brother in laws. I have met my future brother in laws friends quite a few times so it was easy for me to acclimatise but I also think that I have always been respected and valued by these guys compared to my own group of friends. I would still say these guys are generally more extroverted than me and out there like an "alpha male" as I have described it for lack of a better term but I found a key difference is they do not make me feel "less than" when I'm around them. Rather my brother in law has mentioned a number of times how much I am well liked by them for the very fact I am more laidback/quieter in nature and like to laugh and easy to talk to. Maybe that's just because I'm his brother in law and he's dating my sister who they know so you can't really say something bad but I'd like to think not. I guess the point of what of bringing that up is that I have always felt out of place in my own age group it's a bit of shame I am not really part of that group of my sisters friends and would be a bit awkward for me to "join" per say.

Thank you for your advice on that situation I mentioned it is very sound and I think you propose a good idea, I think given the girl my friend introduced me to is more of a "wait and see" at this stage I think seeing how it goes with this existing girl is not a bad thing and just not putting pressure on myself to move it more and more forward. I guess I can only really see where it takes me because there is interest there it's just more a case of thinking long term I don't think I am right for her but my psych has encouraged me to go on a few dates if there is some level of interest because at least you can be sure, she also mentioned that in dating hurting someone you can't really avoid in some cases so as long as you conduct yourself in a respectable manner which I believe I do then you can't beat yourself up.

Hi Daniel

I'm glad you found proof of the truth, within your future brother in law's group of friends, that you're of value while being easy to get along with. I think a lot of groups have what I'd call their 'light', the person in the group they feel naturally drawn to for a variety of reasons. I'm wondering whether you're a 'light' person. You can be in one group where people don't recognise their light, whereas in another group they do. You can have an obvious light, the kind of person who's a stand out leader and/or you can have a subtle light, which can be just as bright. The subtle light of the group will be the person who's easiest to talk to and has some natural sense of wisdom (which they may be in the process of developing without fully realising). Often it's the most sensitive person in the group, a real 'feeler', the kind of person who finds it fairly easy to get a feel for things. Keep in mind, while a feeler can easily get a natural feel for the way forward for others, they can struggle with getting a feel for things in their own life. I know a couple of people like this.

Never say 'Never'. You can't say for sure that you won't become part of you BILs circle of friends to some degree. Sounds like you've already made your mark within that group. You've already established how well liked you are. Your BIL didn't have to tell you this, let alone tell you more than once. Sounds like he's stating or reassuring you of the truth. At the wedding, you may seal the deal which leads him or one his friends to say, before one of their future outings, 'Why don't we ask Daniel to come', to which another says 'Good idea. He's such a nice guy'. There's that 'nice guy' aspect working for you.

Regarding the girl you're dating, over time you may come to find each other to be quite fascinating. You might come to find that you wonder as much as each other. Evolving with a wonderful person, who's full of wonder, is a magical thing. While one wonder filled partner may say 'I wonder what Cajun food tastes like', the other may say 'Let's find out'. While the other wonderful partner may say 'I wonder what it would be like to fly to Fiji for a week', the other may say 'Let's do it, even if it's just to see'. Wonder filled people have a tendency to naturally inspire each other. Wonder leads people to adventure. Wonder leads people to recreation, one of the greatest forms of re-creation of the self :)

Hi therising

I mean I do get along with them it seems but I don’t have a standout personality to be honest that has really ever attracted me to groups where a scenario like you mentioned would occur. Whereas I think my other friends sort of get people gravitate toward them more so I sort of get a bit uncomfortable in myself around groups because there’s pressure to sort of be noticed I guess.

For example, what usually happens I feel in a group is I’m sort of on the outside of the conversation or floating around conversations and I would have to go up to someone to engage conversation first no one really ever comes up to me. That in and of itself doesn’t sound like an issue because it just means I have to start conversation but it does feel like no one really cares that I’m there or not. I don’t know it it’s because I’m laidback/quiet that people don’t feel the need to come up to me but feels more like I don’t really draw people to me whereas other friends seem to get other people in these groups to go up to them and stuff like that, maybe I overthink the whole thing.

With this girl I mentioned I don’t think I am doing the wrong thing taking a casual approach to the situation and sort of keeping my options open without really pursuing anyone else. I have mentioned to her that my attitude is casual and I am just seeing what happens when it was brought up. So I think I have been upfront, I think I am worried about coming across as a womaniser as she has dated these types in the past she mentioned and I am certainly not that.

My pysch encouraged me to give these things a go whilst I’m still figuring it out and be casual/relax about it and try enjoy it along the way unless I absolutely know for sure. I do like her and we get along well I think where I feel terrible is my head says long term we probably are not suited but at same time I’d like to see her again and see what happens, I feel like a bad person for saying/thinking that but I don’t know if I just need to relax and I’m overthinking it. Sorry to ramble on about it I appreciate your patience.

Hi Daniel

I see communication as being somewhat complex at times. Being complex, there can be so many factors involved when it comes to when and how people communicate.

You can have someone who doesn't have a lot of mental energy for conversation, therefor you won't get much out of them. On the other hand, you can have someone who's mentally hyperactive who just won't stop talking. It's incredibly easy for them to talk/communicate/converse. You can have those who have gained skills with experience and those who are in the process of developing skills. You can have those who thrive on open communication and those who are more so introverts, where the communication is more about the quality and less about the quantity or amount of talking. Whole stack of reasons as to why some people appear to be better at communication than others. For some folk, acting interested might be one of the skills they've developed. In the case of someone on the autism spectrum, it's a handy social skill to develop - acting interested when they genuinely can't feel interest. They may really like the person they're talking to and want to keep the conversation or connection going. Acting can help them maintain the connection they and the other person enjoy. It's more so about the connection than anything else.

As I say, lots of different factors behind communication. Don't beat yourself up too much as you're trying to work through becoming a more productive, experienced or relaxed communicator.

Hi therising

I have been working on trying to sort of improve the way I communicate or converse with people as I thought maybe I need to practice backing myself so to speak. I thought there was occasions where I’ve been a bit of mute in certain situations or group settings because I’ve felt incredibly uncomfortable in myself which comes from a lack of belief that I can do certain things. I guess a better way to say is practice being natural but try to add in a few things. Probably doesn’t make sense haha.

I’ve tried to jsut even if it’s in passing out at a social event say hello to people and try to strike conversation where I can without being something I’m not and try to act loud and larger than life when that has made me uncomfortable in the past.

I think also in terms of dating I’m still figuring out how to communicate properly as I feel I can take it too seriously within my own head and too literally. I’ve probably taken it to an extreme where for example I think if I date someone and I end up maybe kissing them or something like that then I am bound for life otherwise I’m a terrible person if I don’t commit long term. Many people have told me that’s not good to think that way as it doesn’t allow me to enjoy the whole process along the way. I am by no means someone who “sleeps around” so something like what I mentioned shouldn’t effect my head, if that makes sense.

So I feel incredible pressure that for example if someone likes me and im still figuring it out and something to that effect happens in the moment whilst I’m still figuring it out that I’m a terrible person and deceitful and like the guys I’ve grown up around who are the types to spend a night with a girl and then never contact them, and this is something I’m not but I feel huge pressure if something happens one night with someone that I am committed.

I know that sounds horrible and I even feel horrible typing it I’m just struggling how to approach something like that and it clouds my head. I am not someone who acts disingenuously and I’m not afraid of commitment but I do take something like that seriously. I’ve been a position where something happened spontaneously and then over time I didn’t feel right about it going forward and I felt like a disgusting person for saying it.

I just want to be able to relax about it and not feel that pressure because I always try my best to respect the other person

Hi Daniel

What you say makes perfect sense, '...practice being natural but try to add in a few things'. There might only be a couple or a few key people in our life we can be our natural self around. We don't have to practice being our natural self around such people because it all just comes naturally. No practice involved at all. When it comes to everyone else, it can take loads of practice (relaxing into being our self). I've found there are actually some folk who I'll never be able to fully be my natural self around. This is generally no longer a problem for me like it used to be. When it comes to such people, I'll give them some elements of my natural self mixed with the parts of me they best relate to. Btw, a common side effect of becoming more your natural self involves losing people and gaining new people along the way. The ones you lose are the ones who can't tolerate who you naturally are or you've found you can't tolerate them, perhaps due to fully waking up to how closed minded or arrogant they can be.

It will be interesting to see how you experience practicing being more your natural self. Will be interesting to see what natural aspects or abilities develop over time. Will the natural questioner in you come to life a little more. For example, if someone says 'You're far too quiet', you may question 'What is far too quiet, in your opinion?'. They may respond with 'You just don't say much', to which your response may be 'What is there to say under the circumstances?'. It's interesting when you begin to question people over their statements toward you. You'll get a percentage responding with 'I don't know', as to why they made such a statement. Some people simply aren't fully conscious of why they make the statements they do, hence the 'I don't know' or non conscious response.

Will the natural 'student' in you come to life more, the one that studies human nature? Will you begin to wonder more about what makes the people around you tick the way they do, while focusing less on 'What's wrong with me?!'. Will you discover there's really not all that much 'wrong' with you, like you once thought? Will people around you begin to appear as being quite quirky and maybe a little insane to some degree? What sane person treats their fellow human beings with complete disregard, using them and leaving them to mentally suffer? You've already stated how conscious you are in regard to this, not wanting to treat women in such a way.

Interesting times ahead :)

Hi therising


It’s funny you use the example of someone saying “you’re far too quiet” and that maybe leading my to question it when I start to become more comfortable in my natural self because I feel I have experienced this more and more recently. It happened with my friends cousins and whilst I didn’t openly question it, in my head I remember saying to myself what does that even mean in the grand scheme of things because I could have said “you’re far too loud”. Difference would be firstly I wouldn’t say that outwardly to the person even if I thought it but more importantly I don’t being loud is bad in and of itself whereas I feel like those comments are said as insults.


I think I’m becoming wiser to it and letting it go, my response is often to laugh it off and say I’m a man of few words in a joke way. I think it’s helped me not stew over those comments intensely for days on end, I definitely have heaps of work to do as there’s some big issues I feel I have within myself that I have struggled to control despite all the effort.


I would like to think I’m conscious of how to treat others, particularly women but I have been going through a period of real disappointment within myself as a result of a few things that have happened. I am usually someone who really controls themselves with women so as not to use someone and then disregard them as you mentioned because that’s not me at all.


With this girl I mentioned I allowed myself to sort of let go of that control a bit and without going into detail a few things happened and I feel ashamed of myself because I let it happen even though I’m not quite sure we would suit each other long term. Now I feel like a complete pig because I know it’ll come across in a way like I used them but I did not because I do not do things like that unless I’m comfortable with the other person, it wasn’t until the following week where I sat back and thought about it properly where I really can tell we wouldn’t suit in the long term because our sort of aspirations going forward don’t align, it’s not about what happened or her as an individual I just think we’re obviously at different stages.


I just feel so horrible because I really make an effort to be respectful and this just happened and now I feel disgusted in myself that I don’t feel like she’s right for me and I’m probably now like all those guys I grew up with who have no morals when it comes to this stuff.

Hi Daniel

I think when people make those comments, 'You're far too quiet' they probably don't realise the serious struggle behind it. For us it can be serious at times, triggering some internal dialogue which can go a little like 'What's wrong with me? Why am I so socially defective?'. But when the struggle eases over time, we can eventually come to smile or even laugh it off with 'I'm a man/woman of few words' or 'It's the quiet ones you gotta watch out for'. That last comment can quickly wipe the smile off a person's face as they contemplate what that may mean. Quick wit can leave you messing a little with people on occasion, for your own personal sense of amusement.

I never fully understood the comment 'Don't take yourself so seriously' until I began to not take myself so seriously. At some point I began to see myself as uniquely quirky and a little funny in some ways. The more I thought about some of my ways the more amused I became by who I am. An example would involve my memory. Because I don't exercise my memory all that much, not as much as I should, it reflects a lack of exercise. While having a poor memory used to seriously upset me and I hated people raising this as an issue, I've come to joke about it to some degree. While one response may be 'As long as I remember my own name, we're off to a good start' another may be 'I'm happy for you to jog my memory, just don't make it run or do a sprint'.

Regarding the girl you've been seeing, I know it's easy for me to say but try not to be too hard on yourself. There can be so many different ways in getting to know someone better. To get caught up in the energy of the moment can be one of those ways. 'Are we energetically matched in an intimate kind of way?' can be a valid question. Some folk can feel thoroughly excited by this kind of mutual energy around the beginning of relationship that it fuels the relationship toward finding something much deeper, at a more soulful level. Daniel, you're far too thoughtful to be as shallow as the kind of guys you describe. That's just not you, no matter how much you begin to question it. There's a difference between being self serving and getting caught up in the excitement of the moment. If you're someone who loves excitement in life, this is simply one way to feel it. If she's the same, then it's simply excitement that you shared together. Instead of anylysing where you think the relationship's heading, live in the moment and let it unfold. You may be surprised.

Hi therising

Hope you are doing well

I think I am guilty of taking myself too seriously and maybe life a bit too seriously as well. I can take things too literally as well I think which is downfall as well. I think the feelings I have with this situation I am going through with this girl is example of that maybe.

I hope you are right when you say I am not like those that I have described because I am really trying not to be that way.

I am not sure if you have comment on this but it's sort of in a "see what happens" phase at the moment, I am genuinely trying to get to know her properly so I can see if anything grows or whether we would be better as friends. Do you believe it is disrespectful of me to still see her while I am figuring it out and then if in the event it forms more of a friendship overtime do you think I am considered self serving or a bit of a pig because we have shared a couple moments together without going into detail but such as kissing. I have said I am casual about things and genuinely seeing what happens and I am not the type to do that stuff if I am not comfortable and I am certainly not just trying to "get in her pants".

I just feel pressure that because we have shared some intimate moments together that I am being a terrible person by still trying to figure out what I want and whether it is right but I am genuinely trying to see what happens as we get along well.

I feel stuck in this position where I do like her and want to see what happens but part of me is also aware we are different/at different stages so I feel like disgusting person because I am not sure despite the intimate moments and then at same time I still want to see what could happen. You can probably tell the confusion in me from my post and I apologise it's just really sparking the over thinker in me.

I don't want to be classified like some of the people I know and have described because I am not that or at least I try my very best to be respectful and I hope it shows through what I have described.

The there's this person my friend wants me to meet/pursue which may take time, I am definitely not two timing or seeing two people at once it's just an idea that keeps getting brought up and now with the other girl I find myself questioning my integrity every minute of the day

I apologise for the weird post

Hi Daniel

I recall when I first started seeing my husband. I believed we were seeing each other casually, due to his laid back attitude toward the relationship. It wasn't until a couple of weeks in that I realised he believed otherwise. While I felt horrible at first, the conclusion I reached made sense: The status of the relationship was never discussed between the 2 of us and it was a simple as that. I wasn't intentionally deceptive and that's the truth.

Seeking clarity from the girl you're seeing might put your mind at ease. If she's someone who doesn't like to be a part of a casual relationship that's one thing. If she's someone who's not at all bothered and feels like you do (let's see where this leads), not a problem. I believe the health of a relationship is based on how we relate. If we're not relating to being on the same page as each other, this is where issues come about.

For me guilt has become a constructive emotion. Believe me, it wasn't always this way. Guilt led me to suffer horribly over the years, before I came to redefine it. For me, guilt has come to be the emotion of higher consciousness. If I'm feeling guilt, this feeling is simply asking me 'Who do you want to be from this moment onward?'. If I've been careless, that feeling is leading me to consider becoming someone who is more careful. If I choose to become a more careful person, guilt doesn't simply go away. It will return to tell me whether I've gone off track. I'll feel it if I've gone off track, if I've been careless at some point. Guilt is a reliable part of my compass, giving me solid direction. I couldn't live without it. It has actually been an emotion that has constructively reformed me in a number of ways. I don't believe it exists to make us suffer, even though it can feel like it at times.

Perhaps guilt may simply be asking you if you wish to be a clear and careful communicator in your current relationship, making sure you're on the same page.

Hi therising


I think it’s constructive the way you frame guilt over never considered it in that light before so thank you.


I did have a chat with her on the weekend which I think helped ease pressure off me. Basically I reassured her that I’m not the sort of guy that is trying to use her and then just move on as I would not have put in any effort if that was the case. I also tried to clarify what I meant by “casual” and that I did not mean casual as a way of using her for physical intimacy and that’s it. I mean casual by way of just seeing where it goes in terms of getting to know each other without the pressure of having to make a serious commitment too early if I’m still figuring out where I’m at on a personal level as well.


I also reassured her that I do like her as a person and enjoy my time with her and there is in no way any pressure from me for her to commit to me or not keep her options open as I respect her so I would not begrudge her if she turned around and said she sees us as friends going forward.


Hopefully by doing/saying that I have been respectful as a guy and not feel like those I’ve described.


I am genuinely trying to form something with her so I’m trying to take it a moment at a time and not go too fast because there are still some things I have doubt over


I guess that’s where I feel like a bad person because I’m still thinking about whether it would work whilst I’m seeing her and I don’t want that to come across as deceptive because it’s not


Sorry for draining the thread with this I guess it’s a good example of how my mind races a bit and I feel really uneasy and my anxiety is sky rocketing lately I’m struggling to manage it all

Hi Daniel

You are such an incredibly conscious person. You blow my mind, truly.

You are conscious of who you don't want to be as well as who you do want to be. You are a conscious communicator in your relationship, even in its early stages. It takes some folk years and years before they're led to become conscious communicators in their relationship, based on relationship/marriage counseling. So, here you are, in the very beginning, achieving what it takes others years to finally achieve. You are conscious of her feelings and giving her the freedom to choose what type of relationship she wants. If she doesn't want casual (in the way of let's see where this leads), you're giving her the freedom to leave the relationship. You're conscious of the respect and consideration she deserves, while working on maintaining self respect at the same time. You have a maturity that typically comes with experience, a natural wisdom that takes others years to acquire. You really do amaze me. You are the type of person who would make an incredible life mentor to guys like my son - young men who are already conscious, who wish to work on raising that to higher levels. I think with experience we become mentors. This experience for you, as well as your past experiences, allows you to be an experienced mentor. This is something I was speaking to my son of, just this morning.

As I mentioned to him, his experience with bullying over the past years has led him to the point where he can say to another 'I know how this feels. I've felt the challenges, the pressure, self doubt, self resentment. I know what it is to be sensitive enough to feel both the loving and brutal nature of others. I've been on both sides of the fence'. He could go on to say, as a mentor, 'Once you begin to get a feel for depressing, degrading and abusive people, you develop your 'radar' which allows you to sense the most subtle of these kinds of people. You can be in a room with 100 people and you can sense exactly who is depressing, degrading and abusive, even if no one else can. You develop a 6th sense for these types of people and you learn that 'emotional detachment' can be an incredibly healthy and productive ability that provides clarity at times'. My son has gained a degree of great wisdom with a developing 6th sense, at 16.

I believe we develop our self the most through the most challenging experiences. Great self development can be a brutal, deeply challenging and thoroughly confusing process at times.

Hi therising


Firstly thanks a lot for your kinds words that was nice to read and I hope I can possess these qualities you mentioned throughout my life. I think I always try to treat people with respect maybe a trap I fall into is putting so much pressure on myself not to hurt others than I forget how I’m feeling and allowing myself freedom to choose what I want.


For example with this girl I’ve put so much pressure on myself not to upset her or hurt her that I feel so anxious and stressed and am not actually allowing myself the chance to consider things from my view. My pysch mentioned to me if I see her for a month and then I revisit my feelings and think it’s just a friendship sure I may upset her or I may not if I say it but I can’t control her reaction but I have been respectful, honest and done right by her the whole time so I should not feel guilty or ashamed in myself like I do.


I think this experience is challenging me because it’s bringing out this I’m a bit insecure about in terms of intimacy, it’s probably more shyness if anything and wanting to make sure she’s comfortable with me. I get a bit agitated or anxious that I’m not wanted or not “good” and makes me feel like they’ll think I’m less of a man because I have a softer approach to it and maybe a bit shy about it. Reason for the shyness is I have had my Aunty suffer a history of abuse from an partner that I witnessed as a child so I never ever want to make a woman feel uncomfortable but I think I put huge pressure on myself as a result and makes me feel less of a man.


She is quite open with that stuff and asks a lot of questions and I have never experienced that, I’ve been honest the whole time I just sort of feel like the way I am is wrong or something. I think she doesn’t realise the pressure it sort of puts on me and maybe my fault for not saying something but I feel uncomfortable to say something for fear of judgement


Your son from what you’ve told me sounds incredibly wise for his age and how I wish I had his strength of mind at his age…he will definitely succeed in life I am sure of it with those types of attitudes as I have held back for long periods of time because of insecurity in myself and finding my place in society. Your son however realises challenges and ways to think through them that is a great skill to have at a young age which I wish I had!