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Topic: Am I man enough?

  1. Just Sara
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    Just Sara avatar
    3398 posts
    3 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    My dear Navy Blue Man;

    Please, please don't blame yourself ok? You haven't done anything wrong...never!!

    I am responsible and accountable for myself and my words...no-one else! There are forces in this Universe that on the face of it, we don't understand. But one thing I do count on, is being confronted with people and situations that will...WILL...challenge me to be a better person. You've been that for me and I've been that for you as has Mrs D. bless her!

    You could no more make me better than I could you, or the children you witnessed being murdered. How reasonable was it for me to blame myself for my rapes? Was my mother at fault? She's the one who left me at home with him. Was feeling beautiful my shame to bare for my partner's act of violence against me? Guilt and self blame are useless emotions...absolutely useless!

    You made a conscious decision to read my words. You chose to take them in and 'act' on your own behalf the same as we all do...with courage, commitment and a shit load of 'what if's'. Scary as all Hell, but those of us who choose this path are hero's for sure.

    I got too close because I needed to learn about boundaries and 'feeling' for others too much. It's called transference; that's what you felt on active duty.

    There is NO guilt or shame...there is only acceptance that sometimes 'life' happens. We have choice, opportunities and the ability to deny or accept our challenges. That's what makes us great..

    Would you deny me that opportunity? I must feel pain to know something's wrong and do what I can to heal. Each step I make may be right or wrong, but they're 'my' steps.

    When your children began to walk, you didn't cheer when they fell, you cheered when they picked themselves up and walked on. It's about them learning from their own mistakes! How bloody fantastic!

    Would you blame yourself because you weren't there to catch them when they fell? Watch on instead, and revel in their greatness!

    To live is the greatest adventure!! We're observing each other 'living' our greatness!

    NEVER GIVE UP!!!

    Sara xoxo

    1 person found this helpful
  2. Doolhof
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    Doolhof avatar
    8823 posts
    4 December 2016 in reply to Just Sara

    Dear Sara, Navy Guy and All,

    Due to the content of this forum and the huge variety of people using it, there will always be moments where a person may feel offended, confronted, invisible, forgotten, welcomed, encouraged, lonely and any number of different emotions.

    For me, it is not always possible to give as much time, care, thought, consideration and attention to the forums as I would like to. Life outside of the forums still happens. This is true for all of us.

    There are times when a person's story touches me deeply and I so desire to know the right words to write to help ease their pain. That is not always possible. Words may never be enough. But we try the best we can.

    Occasionally I intend to answer a post and then forget. There are times when I just look at one section of the forum and so then miss seeing the needs of others, or miss the fun threads as well. Time is sometimes my restraint.

    I have my own personal mental health issues, one being Borderline Personality Disorder. There are times when I post on various threads and receive no recognition of having been there at all. It can upset me. A basic human need is to feel accepted, acknowledged and respected.

    I know deep down that people are not intentionally ignoring me, it is my BPD that tells me otherwise.

    Sara, have another go at reigniting your humour post if/when you feel up to it. Maybe people have just not seen it yet. I haven't, as like I mentioned I have been looking elsewhere on the forums.

    There are posts I have been involved with that I have refreshed now and then. Sometimes they take off, other times they do not.

    Guess what I am trying to say in my long winded way is that it can be so very easy to become so involved in all that is shared on this forum. We would not be human if we did not have feelings, emotions and thoughts regarding all we read and share.

    It is wonderful we can openly communicate here how we are feeling, coping or struggling.

    Once again TIME is against me. I am off to Church then will have my nieces here for the day. They may stay until the evening, so I may not have time to reconnect with the forum. That is okay. We all do what we can when we can.

    Sara and Navy Guy, I send you both a huge hug. Once again I desire more time for everyone that I just don't have right now.

    Take comfort in the knowledge that people do care for you both!

    Cheers for now,Mrs. Dools

    2 people found this helpful
  3. Just Sara
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    3398 posts
    4 December 2016 in reply to Doolhof

    As usual Mrs D you're spot on;

    There are reasons I feel the way I do right now, but am unable to disclose them. It's an unfortunate side affect of being a peer supporter, that our strength and guidance is relied upon for others to trust our words. At least that's how I feel..having my own trials and tribulations feels unnerving.

    Navy Man;

    I'm in a confusing place right now. One of the problems with my PTSD, is not recognising when I'm in need of support myself. I wasn't taught boundaries or self help. I've had to learn the hard way. Sometimes I bounce from one way to the other trying to find the middle...balance.

    I went off on a tangent last night on this thread. I don't want you to take on my issues and blame yourself. I'm here to assist you get thru each phase as I've done. 'Peer support' doesn't mean I'm not flawed; it means I've been where you are and am still in recovery. I always will be.

    Instead of worrying about what you think you've done to make me feel whatever, how could you best support me as my peer? That's where recovery takes on a whole new meaning NM.

    How could you support your wife to support you? Listen, watch, learn, empathise as if you're in her shoes and ask yourself what could work in her situation. That's what I do with you...

    We can't change the world...just ourselves. That's how we make the world a better place; by healing us. When we're strong enough, we pass it on.

    Take care NM and Mrs D..

    Love...Sara xoxo

    1 person found this helpful
  4. Navy Blue
    Navy Blue avatar
    63 posts
    4 December 2016 in reply to Just Sara
    Hello Sara, I said I was going to step away from the whole forum and posting,only yesterday,but I was drawn back only to check to see if you were ok.I guess I also became too close,this is probably due to my character of being too sensitive and caring towards others as well as trying to solve all the worlds problems before morning teatime.Like you, your story strummed a series of melancholic minor chords on my heart strings (I'm a guitarist from way back, a long haired, cardigan wearing shoe gazer playing and singing his heart out to the world during the birth of grunge and I immediately felt I needed to help you,to support you to protect you from further harm.My fault, I am still learning that guilt and shame (major players in my PTSD) are,as you so rightly said,useless emotions. I cannot honestly remember why I did not acknowledge your post when you so obviously needed me to. I'll blame it on those Billy Zane pain killers - I must have been deep in thought writing a sequel to the Phantom inside my head,whilst in reality more than likely trying to remember whether my pants go on before or after I put shoes on...*Pants, then shoes-mental note*. You and I sound like very similar souls,wishing to help and heal others-even though putting ourselves,our needs second.Maybe we should both start wearing capes and our undies on the outside or our pants?I'm sure my kids would find it amusing,as for the rest of society,hmm I'm not too sure..My kids would likely have to get used to the notion of the term "visiting hours" to be able to see their dad!To be honest,I am so glad that you are ok, I didn't sleep a wink last night through worry-another reason why I broke my promise of posting again. I thank Mrs D also for making my lemon days into lemonade. I will continue my fight to recovery and more than likely post again at some time. I just want you,Sara,to know,hopefully without stepping over or getting too close to any boundaries,that your story, no scratch that,you as a person have had such a warm and loving effect in my soul.You have had the greatest impact by far in my healing to date, along with unconsciously showing me your inner strength and with that,the motivation to find my own - to fight and to be as strong as you in my own personal battle with our arch enemy and nemesis "the evil dark lord PTSD"... You'll always be in my heart Sara, good luck, maintain the rage and stay safe ❤️NB
    1 person found this helpful
  5. Just Sara
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    Just Sara avatar
    3398 posts
    4 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    Now that's the Navy Man I've come to adore!!!

    I laughed out loud many times reading; 'big' thankyou for this. It was heartfelt and warm, honest and humble. Another thankyou...

    Keeping things short...I'd like for you to have a look-see at a thread I 'know' will enlighten you. The quick link is;

    https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/online-forums/ptsd-trauma/poor-concentration-due-to-ptsd#qlj5QnHzvGGEbv8AAOnT_A

    Just copy and paste onto the address bar for quick access. Otherwise go to The Forum Sections, PTSD and Trauma, then Poor Concentration due to PTSD by MarkJT.

    It's a great read so post if you like. Our experiences are 'gold' to others...just sayin'

    Take care and stay safe yourself...Sara xoxo

    1 person found this helpful
  6. Croix
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    Croix avatar
    10950 posts
    4 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue
    Dear Navy Blue
    Please excuse these observations, I’m hoping you do not step back from posting for the wrong reasons – I well understand the need everyone has for a break at times or that other things in life may take precedence. I get the feeling however that you are deciding based upon your concern about putting those that are interacting with you in a worse place. Also maybe that you are a little overwhelmed at the number of responders, rich variety of support and the depth of self-revelation offered to you.

    I guess it’s true that everyone posting here that gives a message of worth is perhaps paying for the quality of their help in the currency of pain from past hurts, the doubts about doing more harm than good, the feelings of loneliness when a revealed part of their heart is not acknowledged. I too, in a small way, offered stories of times I still look back to with grief, shame and regret. If I’d known whether you would come back to me or not I’d still have posted as I’ve walked (stumbled?) the path and want to give a hand to others who walk it now.

    If the recipient never replies then some good may still be done, both to the recipient in gaining information and support, and to the supporters in the knowledge that their efforts to help showed them something good about themselves – their desire and ability to help others and ability to empathize.

    How much better is a thread where the helped reaches out in return, expressing gratitude and concern for the helpers. The very real needs of both helper and helped are being met. This is happening here. Getting close to those that share their experiences is normal and to be expected by all.

    You have consistency expressed appreciation, that you value both the insights offered and the people who offered them. This whilst suffering deeply in a new and very unfamiliar part of your life. My experiences of my equivalent time included being over-anxious about causing harm, and using less than perfect reasoning.

    If you have not always answered everyone and someone gets lost in the shuffle I think that for so complex and active a thread it is probably to be expected. You did notice Sara’s absence and expressed concern – your humanity and care shines though.

    I really believe you have in no way failed, and are both gaining and giving. No doubt there will be others who are not actually part of this thread who gain from quietly reading it too.

    My best wishes to you, your family and all in this thread.
    Croix
    1 person found this helpful
  7. Navy Blue
    Navy Blue avatar
    63 posts
    5 December 2016 in reply to Just Sara
    Hi Sara, you have no idea how happy inside hearing from you again was for me. I too have to keep this short as today is the Preschool's Christmas Party... I will have a checkers of the thread you recommended and throw my two cents worth in if I feel I can help. So glad you are back on the mend and please stay in touch. Crazy time of the year I know so if I don't hear from you or vice versa don't stress as I won't either - now knowing you are safe and well. ❤️NB
  8. Navy Blue
    Navy Blue avatar
    63 posts
    5 December 2016 in reply to Croix
    Dear Croix, you are like my Yoda (except I'm pretty sure you are not green and 700 years old) if I was like Luke Skywalker...so wise are you! Value your honest and useful input I do, it always has the amazing effect of putting my feet back on the ground or slows and eventually stops my head spinning. You have a gentle way of making me understand the true meaning behind my feelings, I cannot thank you enough! Apologies for the Star Wars references...and poor Yoda speech attempts. I hope you can feel my endless gratitude for you counsel and advice. Cheers NB
  9. Croix
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    10950 posts
    5 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    Dear Navy Blue,

    >(except I'm pretty sure you are not green and 700 years old)

    That still leaves the ears - mine really are not that big and pointy- are they?

    Thank you for coming back to me, makes me feel appreciated too.

    If you ever do stop posting for a while never ever feel reluctant to come back - there'll always be warmth and understanding waiting.

    Have fun at the preschool party,

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  10. Navy Blue
    Navy Blue avatar
    63 posts
    5 December 2016 in reply to Croix
    Hello again Croix, just to let you know the preschool party was fabulous, another milestone of one of my three children met... I also wanted to claim bragging rights to the 100th post in this thread!!! Only joking, to be honest I am extremely overwhelmed by the sheer amount of support I have received by that one day finding the courage to registers BB and post for the first time. Since that post, I have learned so much about myself through others, through other people's stories, courage, adversity and fortitude to fight on - and the greatest thing of all I no longer feel alone. This 100th post isn't all about celebrating sheer numbers, it is ore of a calling from me to those who may just be reading, unsure of whether to join BB or are scared to post their story. Look at this thread for just an example, from the amount of love, raw emotion shared and compassionate support I have recieved through "getting the ball rolling", I strongly commend that you dig deep, trust your inner courage and try just like I did 100 posts ago... To all who have posted, given up,their time shared their stories and inner emotions - I can only thank you. Words are all this forum is, but the gratitude I place in my words of thank you has more power than words can ever have. Much love to you all ❤️NB
  11. Doolhof
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    Doolhof avatar
    8823 posts
    8 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    Hi Navy Guy and All,

    WORDS can be amazing. Hopefully other people reading this thread will find encouragement, empowerment and realise people are out there willing to help and support them.

    Hope you are doing okay Navy Guy. How is the hip?

    Have you managed to rig up a cart yet for one of your cattle to pull you around the garden?

    In our region we have a couple who have a huge horse that pulls along a wagon. They go camping on the back roads. Sounds like fun to me.

    Cheers all from Mrs. Dools

  12. Navy Blue
    Navy Blue avatar
    63 posts
    10 December 2016 in reply to Doolhof
    Hi Mrs Dools, thanks as always for checking in on my progress. Things aren't so rosey here at the moment. I just posted another two thousand five hundreder on Mark JT's thread on PTSD and poor concentration-don't really feel like rehashing my issue again,sorry, I'm tired from not sleeping and generally flat & feeling once again overwhelmed by everything. Usually this time of year is magical for my wife and I with the kids. Not so this year for a swagger of reasons I guess. We are off interstate soon for Christmas at home with my family only now my wife wants time alone and no longer wants to come. Haven't broached the issue with kids yet,but will need to soon as they will be clearly devastated and confused at the same time. I can't seem to get much more, in terms of reasoning out of my wife than she is over it all.. We went from sharing a lovely date night together, sharing intamacy for the first time in a long time to only days later how we are now. I know it is because of me and all the issues that just keep on coming one after the other, however her term over it all referred to the children as well - which not only upset me but surprised me too. Not sure where it goes to from here. She's moved to the spare room which is like a dagger to my heart. It's the kids I am worried about. Needless to say my PTSD related depression and feeling of blame and self worthlessness has nose dived into a flat spin worse than Maverick's that killed Goose! I will again try and talk to my wife today about everything, hard to find time with the kids around, and see if we can resolve any underlying issues she has or at least come up with a strategy for our way of dealing with our so called Christmas holiday. I've been up since 0400, without sleeping much before that anyway. Kids are surfacing now, so it is happy face on and crack on with the weekend. I will try and check in again soon, hope you are well and I am sorry to vent all this crap your way after you wrote such a simple caring post asking after me. All my love and hugs and kisses NB
    1 person found this helpful
  13. Doolhof
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    Doolhof avatar
    8823 posts
    10 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    Hi Navy Guy,

    Venting is a good thing. I'm really sorry to read that your relationship has taken a nose dive with your wife. Is there any chance you can make a joint Drs. appointment to discuss things with him/her? This time of year is a real horrid time to try and connect with outside help. Use the phone help lines if you need to. I did a couple of days ago, the lady I chatted with was very helpful.

    My husband and I have had separate beds for ages, now separate rooms. I hate it. It is his choice. We live a parallel life. I totally understand the feelings you have around this.

    Unfortunately, I have no idea how you manage to fix things. I have settled with an empty marriage. Neither of us can afford to leave each other, so we are stuck in this situation. I just try to make the most of what I do have.

    Do you know if your wife has been to see her Dr about how she is feeling? She too could be suffering from some kind of depression, over load, exhaustion, over tiredness and so on.

    With Christmas fast approaching, even more pressure and stress must be piling on top of you right now wanting to get this all sorted. What ever happens, it is important the children know they are not to blame.

    If you do end up seeing your family for Christmas with the children, keep in touch with your wife, send her text messages telling her you love her, trying not to add any blame, guilt or what ever. Have the children phone her or send text messages as well.

    A girl friend of mine has issues with her son not keeping in touch. She is now texting him, telling him she loves him and misses him and requesting he makes time to catch up with her. The saying hello and thinking of you is great, no one needs the guilt trip of feeling required to keep in touch.

    It does sound like your wife needs a break right now. As hard as it is, it might be the best thing for you all. It is such a shame it is all happening at Christmas time. This time of year can be stressful enough.

    I will take your hugs and kisses, thankyou very much and return them back to you as well. Life can suck. I get that!

    I don't know what else to suggest. Wish I had a magic want to wave to make all the pain disappear!

    Cheers for now from Mrs. Dools

    1 person found this helpful
  14. Croix
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    10950 posts
    10 December 2016 in reply to Navy Blue

    Dear Navy Blue (& Mrs NB if she likes)

    I’m sad to hear of the latest developments though it’s not a surprise. I found the situation is a massive ongoing blow to the whole family and your wife is right in the front line. It of course affects all of her life, not just her relationship with you. She’s in a strange new world she never anticipated and can have as much trouble dealing with it as you do. Feeling at the moment over-it-all means all. All the parts of her life she has to deal with, which includes the kids, her in-laws, travel, Christmas, and everything - as well as handling the losses she now faces

    Perhaps the good time together the other day has brought home to her how much things have changed and she’s feeling it, perhaps tiredness, perhaps no relief in sight from a long journey, perhaps other matters she’s put a happy face on in the past now are just too much effort. I’m guessing

    If I was in her shoes I’d probably not know what was the best thing to do or how to fix things, even for herself, plus there'd be anger. Instinct in unhappy situations can demand more space, even if only to get some peace and breathing room

    Both my late and present wives find Christmas to be a highly stressful time and both wished it was at most bi-annual with at least two thirds of the relations permanently stranded in a pilots’ airstrike - plus a moratorium on presents

    Memory/concentration performance in the other thread could be a side-issue at the moment and for me there would be no percentage in worrying about it right now.

    Here trying to deal with a fluid unhappy situation when blaming oneself and tired is not ideal. It’s easy to say things that are ill-considered or to try to force the pace.

    Does your wife have a mother, sister or other person who can give her a bit of unconditional love from outside?

    - NB don't read this -

    Dear Mrs Navy Blue

    Have you considered telling your story in a beyondblue forum - using anonymity to set out your feelings & problems (and getting your husband to promise not to seek it out). There's also the 1300 hotline

    You can say anything & if you happened to feel you might put yourself in a bad light you'd be wrong. There is warmth & empathy here for all, and the same paths have already been trodden by many

    If privacy is a concern get your own computer/tablet for Xmas

    - NB you can continue now -

    My apologies if either of you think my suggestion inappropriate or I'm intruding

    My very best wishes to you both

    Croix


  15. Croix
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    Croix avatar
    10950 posts
    10 December 2016 in reply to Doolhof

    Dear Mrs Dools

    If you happen to find that wand can I have a lend please?

    Croix

  16. Doolhof
    Champion Alumni
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    Doolhof avatar
    8823 posts
    12 December 2016 in reply to Croix

    Hi Croix,

    Darn it, no I haven't found that wand yet. My hippy friend might be able to make me one though. Not sure how effective it will be. Might end up giving everyone dread locks just like hers. Very colourful they are!

    I will keep looking though!

  17. Croix
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    Croix avatar
    10950 posts
    12 December 2016 in reply to Doolhof

    Dear Mrs Dools

    I think that if your hippy your friend does provide you with a wand you are supposed to say

    "A La Peanut-butter Sandwiches" as you brandish it. This seems to work quite satisfactorily for The Amazing Mumford in Sesame Street.

    Croix (-Harry Potter eat your heart out)

  18. Doolhof
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    Doolhof avatar
    8823 posts
    13 December 2016 in reply to Croix

    Hi Navy Guy,

    We seem to have hijacked your post and taken it on a different tangent! Please know this is being done in a sense of fun and not at all to devalue your struggles or anyone elses. You are always most welcome to share how you are feeling here. This is just a little diversion.

    I do so hope you are able to sort a few things out at home and also hope your healing on all levels is progressing.

    CROIX, you reminded me of another funny situation. I assisted the elderly in their homes. One lady allowed me to use her broom for about 6 months before she thought I would be safe with the vacuum cleaner! I had to bite my tounge .

    It was a big enough battle getting to use her broom. I don't know how she expected me to clean her floor. I was going to tell her I wanted the broom to sweep with not to go flying on! (It was funny at the time)

    A magic want and anti guilt pills...that would be a good combination!

    Cheers, Mrs. Dools

  19. aegidius
    aegidius avatar
    58 posts
    8 February 2017 in reply to Doolhof

    "Not man enough" can be a tough one when it sneaks under your skin. I would ordinarily laugh that off except when it comes from my wife, who had a rather macho father to compare me unfavourably with (as were many in the 40/50/60's)

    I remind myself, not always successfully, that I have not let anyone down or failed anyone. It's a big ask to believe this sometimes. And of course I don't blame my wife - these feelings existed long before she came along), and she understands my position now. I do not for a second compare my experiences to anyone who has served in the military, either.

    If you think about it a bit, "man enough" really doesn't mean anything. It's just words that set you up to fail.

    1 person found this helpful

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