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Forums / Relationship and family issues / My estranged daughter turns 21 today

Topic: My estranged daughter turns 21 today

  1. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    22 November 2020

    Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

    It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

    She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

    I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

    It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

    Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

    Cheers,

    Jstar

    4 people found this helpful
  2. ecomama
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    23 November 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Dear Jstar

    What a sad thing it is that your eldest daughter isn't speaking to you and hasn't for FOUR YEARS! omg that's so sad.

    I'm so sorry. That's horrible.

    I really don't know how the relationship between you both / all can heal but we're here to listen and comfort you if and when we can. Hugs!

    I had a very high risk situation happen a number of years ago with my eldest daughter and eldest children.
    It lasted for YEARS.
    I truly thought it would never heal.

    It broke my heart in 2, so I'm really feeling for you about this.

    My Counsellor's advice was VERY difficult to hear and to do.
    I asked her questions ALL the time about it and cried my heart out.

    Cs advice was "Be consistently and persistently YOURSELF".

    For me it was more about AVOIDING doing some things and just being consistently and persistently myself.

    I had to ask myself what kind of mother I AM firstly!
    It was SO HARD....

    Then I came up with answers which directed my own actions (and inactions).

    I consistently sent pleasant texts asking her questions. I have grandchildren to her also so I asked about them and her partner (who was a huge part of the problem).

    I ALWAYS used pet names to her and sent LOTS of 💜💙💚💛🧡 hearts lol.

    I knew her / their interests so selected ONE present that was very thoughtful for every celebration.
    I had them mailed, gift wrapped etc.

    I avoided...
    * over explaining things about the situation
    * blaming her or anyone in her sphere
    * crying
    * texting too often
    * calling too often.

    I apologised for anything she accused me of.
    I expressed HOPE for our future relationship.

    She was VERY ANGRY in fact FURIOUS.... it's taken YEARS to begin to heal our relationship and I STILL have to be consistent in my mood, reactions, LOVE - everything.

    The thing was that SHE betrayed me many times over multiple levels.

    I will never trust anyone 100% again. No one.
    I am far more comfortable this way as no one can promise life long devotion and probably shouldn't! (See Brene Brown's work esp her Netflix special "The Call to Courage". She agrees).

    My own mother is another story.
    I've been NC for decades with her.
    She was taken away by Police which could have happened hundreds of times during my life.
    I'm NC bec she's violent in all ways.

    You're in my Prayers
    Love EM

    3 people found this helpful
  3. quirkywords
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    quirkywords avatar
    11917 posts
    23 November 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Jstar

    welcome to the forum and thanks for sharing your experience and exposing your story.
    I was going to reply and noticed EM had replied with helpful suggestions from her own experience.

    I won’t repeat her post . I do know people who have not heard from their children for up to ten years. I have hope that things can change as I have seen it happen. It takes time and patience.

    You know your daughter more than anyone you will decide what you want to do. I can feel your pain and not sharing her 21st birthday with her.

    A friend wrote to her daughter for all the years in a journal .
    When her daughter came back she told her of the journal but the daughter didn’t want to see it at that time. Years later when her mum was ill, she asked for the journal and cried.

    2 people found this helpful
  4. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    23 November 2020 in reply to quirkywords

    Thanks Q,

    There's some really sad stories in your reply.

    I have been hoping that the whole amygdala thing maturing was going to be the answer to my prayers- maybe not! Thing is, I can imagine this sort of scenario with my daughter. She's quite strong willed. I wrote her a letter and popped it in with a basket of presents, along with a photo album-family tradition in our family- but i really don't know if she will read it. A journal is a good idea, maybe.

    Thankyou.

  5. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    23 November 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hey Em,

    Thanks so much. I knew i wasn't alone, but it's not something anyone really wants to talk about I guess.

    Theres been a lot of blame shifting in our (FoO) family for years. It's a tough one. What can one do? Only learn from it, pick yourself up when you get knocked down, and find lovely people wherever you can.

    I have learnt that I need to get by without other people's approval. That recognising you've made mistakes isn't the same thing as shouldering all the blame, for everyone else/their choices and actions.

    I try and be consistent with my d. Funny that, cos when she was little someone told me that consistency is what kids need, and I really struggled with it. I like the description tag of being consistently me, and examining what sort of mother I am. An interesting mental exercise anyway-should help distract me from my self-flagellation! haha lol.

    My youngest d is an absolute gem, and tells me all the time that I'm the best mum. She is so good for my soul and I love her to bits. I love my eldest too, in such a different way. I don't think she knows that, really, from what my mum said once. I am reminded of the Peter Carey novel, Oscar and Lucinda, where the guy grows the girl a forest for her bees to prove his love. I wonder if I will need that much patience??!

    Em, it sounds like you have your own sad story around mothering. It's a good thing you are on a healing journey, both for yourself and your bloodline. I truly believe that nothing we do is wasted, especially not our healing work.

    Thankyou for your words- and hugs

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  6. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    23 December 2020

    Hey, so I don't know if anyone will read this, but....

    Yesterday I had it confirmed that my d doesn't intend to invite us to her wedding. I don't know when it will be, it could be soon.

    I'm beyond tears now, maybe. For the moment.

    All I can do is hope and pray that she changes her mind. That even if she doesn't want to acknowledge me as her mum, that she will allow me and my H to be there, and won't be nasty.

    She's been shutting me out of her life for a long time. There was stuff which went on too, and lots of misunderstandings and miscommunications.I don't blame her exactly, even tho I know I don't deserve this. She's very strong, I'm very strong. She has to find her own way of being in this world.

    MH is pretty bad in our family. Lots of depression, on her dads side as well. She used to SH, which when she finally revealed it really shocked me. We got help, and I think she's better, but I don't really know for sure.

    I'm figuring she must be ok if she's got a steady job and is buying a house with her partner. At 21!!! It's hard to believe!

    I don't know what to do. I don't know how to be ok with it if she does exclude me from her wedding.

    Sad.

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  7. ecomama
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    23 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Dearest J*

    Huge hugs. This is very sad and must be so shocking for you. I'm so sorry.

    And I wish it wasn't this way.

    Yes I'm reading. If you want to share anything anytime, I'll listen and be present.

    Love EM

    1 person found this helpful
  8. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    23 December 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Ohhh thanks lovely Em! You're so kind!

    Tears and hugs

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  9. quirkywords
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    quirkywords avatar
    11917 posts
    24 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Jstar I am here reading as are many others who read but dont reply. You are not alone.

    That is so sad about your daughter and her not inviting you the wedding. She is hurting and takes it out on you. As you say things are complicated but it is frustrating you cant even explain things to her. I do know of someone not invited to her daughters wedding but a few years later that did get back together when daughter had a child.

    Sending a comforting hug. Take care

    2 people found this helpful
  10. ecomama
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    24 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Dearest J*

    As quirky said, so many people read other's posts and don't know how to respond or can't due to what they're going through atm too.

    We are ALWAYS here for you!

    You are never alone in this struggle and painful journey.

    It's NOT EASY!

    You know I've been through similar and I was so distressed for years over it all.
    My Counsellor said for me to be "persistently and consistently MYSELF".

    Tbh I didn't even know or remember who I was at the time she said that to me!!
    I had been in such a DV / FV filled life for decades.

    It made me think and REMEMBER who I was!
    Cultivate that!

    But I know some of who you are and you know yourself better than anyone in the whole world.

    Acknowledging all the emotions coming to you, maybe through journalling here even, will help you process them.

    Grounding yourself in your ever growing sweet garden is a VERY healing thing to do also.

    Just know you're never alone.
    Keep that 10 ft thick wet blanket of depression at bay!

    Cultivate yourself.

    Love always EM

    3 people found this helpful
  11. white knight
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    white knight avatar
    9165 posts
    24 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49
    Hi J

    Before my reply, I do have difficulty reading letters in place of words, still trying to figure out what Fo0 means lol.

    I'm sad for you as many of us have been in this situation. None of us is perfect and we make errors, however in some disputes, the errors we make don't reflect the severity of the punishment.

    Like you my other daughter is a gem. My youngest, heavily influenced by her narcissistic mother tried treating me the same as her mother treated me. From 14yo when she rang me and for no reason at all said "I don't want to see you anymore. At 16yo I paid $15,000 over and above child support for her realignment and teeth...yet she continued on/off relationship. Like her mother, silence was her weapon of choice along with contempt.

    So, easter 2 years ago again she'd text and all was forgiven again. Goood contact for 10 days then- yep, silence. Contact only possible via Facebook as she had the means to block me. This was the last straw, at 27yo she'd hurt me for the last time. I made a decision.

    My actions was to block her, this was to not have to get unexpected contact that raised my anxiety. We moved house, new address not forwarded (her choice to not provide her phone nor address to me.

    My last decision- if she tracks me down and knocks, I'll invite her in, I'll be very firm and direct, my love is shattered, but I will invite her in- why? For my benefit! I'd cope better than if I turned her away.

    Please Google

    Beyondblue topic fortress of survival

    Also part 2 and 3

    Take care...of yourself.

    TonyWK
    3 people found this helpful
  12. white knight
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    white knight avatar
    9165 posts
    24 December 2020 in reply to white knight
    Here is a poem I wrote to my estranged daughter when she was 15yo.

    IF i COULD NOT PAY

    I used to tell my youngest one

    that if she chose I not be gone

    that if she needed me in USA

    I'd start to swim if I could not pay.

    Toy soldiers marched across the floor

    fairies carried out their chores

    Barbies combed and shaped their hair

    little girl asleep so she not aware

    And then the years came and went

    and all my cash on support was spent

    then thousands passed through my fingers bare

    for her dentistry but I did not care

    As a dad with love dripping from his cheeks

    "I'm here for you - whenever you seek"

    then she came and made me smile

    that wait was worth my while

    Toy soldier rusty no longer marched

    Barbies hair old and somewhat parched

    young woman now lies in bed awake

    echoes of words bad so she hesitates

    Pride remains and its does so strong

    Dignity chained where it did belong

    Still if she needed me in the US of A

    I'd start swimming ....if I could not pay...

    TonyWK
    5 people found this helpful
  13. Matchy69
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    24 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49
    Hi Jstar I can feel your pain not getting an invite to your daughter's wedding.I didn't get invited to one of mine after she had asked me to walk her down the aisle.Then she never invited me to the wedding and it hurt so bad and still does 5 years later.I just want you to know I am listening to you and know some of the pain you are going through.
    Take care,
    Mark.
    4 people found this helpful
  14. golden82
    golden82 avatar
    372 posts
    25 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Hi Jstar,

    You are brave for sharing and expressing your pain so well. It is totally justified pain too. It is good you have support here from the other members. And unfortunately as you can see in the replies, this sort of cruelty goes on. I was not even told of my only siblings wedding (SIL jealousy issues) - and I thought we were close. Everyone else included - family and friends. I found out by accident some time later. Entire family lied to me and shut me out (and still do, years later) - parallel universes. It was and still is painful. Also due to all the secrets and lies and exclusion seem to have made it worse for me. And these go on with children/nephew etc I not told about or know about or allowed to have anything to do with. I guess I just want you to know, you are not alone. And it is not your fault or a reflection of you. And as others, I am also reading along and listening if you need. I do hope the situation changes for you and you are invited. But if not, try to focus on you and your qualities - I am trying to do this ie I know I would never do that to another person. But not everyone is like us - unfortunately. Stay strong. Best wishes.

    3 people found this helpful
  15. Matchy69
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    26 December 2020
    Hi Jstar I am just seeing how you are and I am thinking of you.
    2 people found this helpful
  16. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    26 December 2020

    Wow,

    I am sitting here with tears dripping down my cheeks at the outpouring of love and support here- thankyou all so much.

    Tony, I apologies for my shorthand- FoO stands for Family of Origin- how I distinguish between my own small family-hubby, no.2 child and me- and my other family- mum+dad, 3 siblings. All of us affected by those dynamics which we grew up with.

    I can relate to so much of what you are all saying - especially Tony when you said "None of us is perfect and we make errors, however in some disputes, the errors we make don't reflect the severity of the punishment." Tony that situation with your daughter sounds almost unbearable. I'm so sorry that she takes your love and care for granted. How heartbreaking as a parent! And Mark- wow. She really missed out didn't she! And still is I guess. How sad that she didn't let her special day be one of forgiveness and new beginnings.

    It seems like I have been practicing endless forgiveness and 'rising above' and yet what I get in return is just, as golden82 says- cruelty. It does feel so cruel, and you have said I would never treat anyone this way. Goldie I can almost feel how awful that situation of being excluded from your sibs wedding- and how immature to lie about it and have you find out by accident! One of the things I find hardest to understand and forgive is when ppl are too cowardly to be upfront and honest in difficult situations. It often seems like this is accepted behaviour in some circles. One of the things I love about my partner is his honesty. He is definitely my safe space in all this mess.

    I was hoping that this yr was a new beginning. And then at family lunch today it emerges that my sister has blocked me on her phone again-despite there being no event, and despite her having contacted me this year in an emergency to do with my mum. And all I can think is- thank GOD (sorry Lord) that Christmas is over for one whole year. And I don't have to look at her face snarling at me while I try to make pleasant conversation over Christmas lunch.

    I know I can shrug this off too. Thank you all for your support, Em, Tony, Goldie, quirky, and Mark. and anyone reading these words and maybe agonising over their own situation. I'm so grateful for this space here to share and be real. Thankyou for not automatically assuming....anything I guess. Except I read unconditional regard and acceptance in your words, and that helps, a lot.

    Love

    J*

    4 people found this helpful
  17. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    26 December 2020 in reply to Matchy69

    Thanks Mark,

    I'm doing much better thankyou. Today was ok, despite my sister's hostility. I was able to practice some techniques I've been using to remain in balance, emotionally, and keep it until I got home.

    More later tho,

    thanks again for your care,

    J*

    2 people found this helpful
  18. ecomama
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    26 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*, we're here for you any time of the day or night.

    I read the "Highly Sensitive Person (HSP)" and the "Extra Sensitive Person (ESP)" stuff you were talking about on another thread....

    BUT sometimes we just have to look around us and figure out if we're not just surrounded by aholes.

    For some unknown reason when we are compassionate, kind souls, those aholes just think they can tread all over us. And given the chance they DO!

    We can't change who they are, nor can we change how they treat us.

    When their treatment is so brutal and cruel, it's normal for us to feel extremely hurt, even betrayed and damaged by their words and actions.

    Forgiveness is one thing.
    But forgiving doesn't mean we have to go back into the fire time and time again.

    It's exhausting and mind effing being in relationships with toxic people.

    I like the notion of "Low Contact" but have rarely seen it play out successfully long term.
    Toxic people won't respect boundaries IME.
    Perhaps LC can give ppl TIME to establish their lives without these ppl in their lives as in full contact.

    No Contact is extremely difficult when it's sudden most especially (in my case with my mother when police were called).
    I think NC is sad for probably anyone who has to make this decision. It was for me. Police made the decision for me saying they wouldn't help me again if I allowed her in my home etc.

    Maintaining LC or NC is very stressful also. Even after decades I'm being contacted by my mother. 99% of anything I throw in the bin. Of the 1% of letters I open, it's full of demands and accusations.
    This just cements my decision tbh.

    Toxic ppl seem to have endless amounts of energy for their toxicity!

    So we're stuck with a range of really sucky options. We may not like the consequences of ANY option. But they're options still the same.

    Some ppl are so screwed up we have NO options but NC.

    Love EMxxxx

    1 person found this helpful
  19. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    27 December 2020 in reply to ecomama

    Hey em,

    It's others who are NC with me- does that say something about me??

    Love

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  20. white knight
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    white knight avatar
    9165 posts
    27 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49
    Quite often I've found that if several people have NC with me it's usually that they've corroborated with each other, demonized and manipulated the situation.

    A good example is in-laws. Often you might not get along with one, then the gang mentality creeps in.

    Have faith in yourself.

    TonyWK
    3 people found this helpful
  21. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    27 December 2020 in reply to white knight

    Thanks Tony,

    There's def something to that. My sister is a pretty powerful personality and will go NC with anyone who speaks truth to her. Or in my case if I ask a question. most recently "What happened?"

    Thankyou,

    J*

    3 people found this helpful
  22. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    28 December 2020

    Hi all,

    So I have been struggling a bit- a lot!- since Christmas and discovering my lovely (NOT) sister has been blocking me on her phone. So if I have sent messages she hasn't received them Happy birthday, happy christmas, nothing. I don't send abusive messages so there's no need for her to do this. And we both have young children, so there's a valid reason,(apart from aging parents) to at least stay in contact. My youngest has often begged to get in contact, ask for a play. When I got no response I figured she was ignoring me, or busy, not that she wasn't getting them I feel so hurt and let down.

    This is particularly upsetting as she is in close proximity to my D who won't have anything to do with me and I do think she has a responsibility to be a bit more adult.

    Anyway, last night I was practicing some inner enquiry, after talking about it on another thread,and was following my thoughts, seeking a root thought which would give me insight to my mind,and my low mood, and I came up with a random statement rolling around in my head about how I don't deserve to be alive.... URGHH!

    As this thought was connected to my sister, it seems that the cause for my distress, when she treats me with disregard, is directly linked to my own sense of self worth.

    Which seems obvious now that I'm writing it down.

    I feel so angry that this thought has been controlling my thoughts and feelings about myself for so long, and am relieved to have put my finger on it. Still furious tho. Doesn't she realise how her words and actions have contributed to my lack of wellbeing, and that of my children? Of course this all must have started when we were children, and so I guess it's just one of those things, not my fault and not hers. But her current behaviour has definitely contributed to lots of things, including my D and her treatment of me.

    Tony I think it's like you say, there's quiet corroboration and tacit agreement in treating a family member as worthless or somehow less than, and in ours it has begun at the top. It makes me so mad!!

    Ah well, onward and upward, as Em mite say!

    I'm not sure how I will be able to deal with this now in a positive way, but at least I am more aware of what my brain has been doing with her behaviour, and I shall be on the alert now.

    Cheers everyone,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  23. Matchy69
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    28 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49
    Hi Jstar I am sorry that your sister has blocked you.I try to ring and text my brother bit he rarely replies back.He did reply to my text Christmas day after trying to contact him for months I thought ministers were suppose to be caring people.At least you know what is going on.
    Mark.
    3 people found this helpful
  24. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    29 December 2020 in reply to Matchy69

    Hi Mark,

    That is so true! I do know where things are at now. I generally seem to expect better of some ppl than is realistic. I imagine that most ppl are willing to let bygones be bygones, so to speak, or to remember the good and brush over the bad. I looked after my sister's puppy and her children for 2 mths when she was struggling. It put my own life on hold. I loved it becos I got to spend time with the kids, but to have her then refuse to speak to me 2 months later was very hard to take. All becos I questioned of my parents why they continued to have holidays away with just her and her kids. (Dad took them to an Australian resort island) Next thing I know she's gone back to being cold.

    Mum says she probs has MH issues too. I imagine she does. She won't get help though. Just sucks ppl up and spits them out. My mum is to scared to do or say anything which will upset her becos she will not let the kids go there if she does. Once when mum dropped by with her youngest in tow (she always used to babysit) and the kids had a play together, mum said she was afraid she was never going to see them again.

    Then it was good.

    Then it was not.

    You get the picture.

    Your brother is a minister? And he won't reply to your txts or contact you?

    Wow that is really sucky. Why do ppl have to be so mean, and lacking in compassion. I just don't understand it.

    Even if you may have done something or said something to upset him, he really ought to know better than to treat you that way. I believe most things can be worked out if ppl are sincere and genuine, and not a psychopath lol! Perhaps thats the problem. I hope God convicts him and he begins to behave with some decency, even tho it might seem to be too little too late. It's good to be at peace with ppl. Otherwise I find it weighs on my mind. I try to cut it away and ignore, but my mind keeps chewing it over. Trying to work it out. Trying to see if there's something I can do to make things better. Thats just me probably tho. Mum kinda raised us up to believe that everything is my fault. She didn't educate me about mean ppl, or bullies, or how to handle it. Talk about naive!

    Ah well, live and learn!

    Mark, I think you're an awesome person, with a lot to give. You're so kind and caring here on the forums, and you speak honestly and genuinely.

    Thankyou for being here.

    (and your brother is a blockhead!)

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  25. ecomama
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    29 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Oh heavens J* what a mess to try to untangle! I must be triggering a bit bec my typos are back in full swing but it's OK for me, grr for YOU!

    Alexa would say your sister is going from idolising (having you care for the kids and dog, she'd NEVER kiss your feet kind of idolising) to demonising.

    You've shown her up!
    She hates it!

    I think THIS is what's gone on.

    AND OMG!

    SO then "they" find ANYthing at all to embellish and exaggerate, like you're SUPPOSED to be some perfect person.

    Same with the scape goat theory of your family.

    Oh btw tracking back.... there are SO MANY more ppl NC with me than I could count!
    Calling police on my mum ostracised me from over 40 of my CLOSEST relatives in one fell swoop - it just took years for me to work it out.

    demon worked on the in-laws et al and there's hundreds of family there.

    I've NCd a few "friends" who were just too horrible. No excuses.

    SO I did something RIGHT (calling police, calling demon out etc) and NC happened.

    You did something NORMAL ie asking a question... how dare you ask a question?
    The demonising was happening before this time.
    It could be called "Familial Isolation" and it's what abusers do to their victims.
    Plus use them as a scape goat.
    Plus use other family members as "minions" or "flying monkeys" as referred to in psych sites on DV / FV, to further isolate the target.

    AND YOU don't have to have done anything at all wrong.

    IMO just show them up by being you. (The things I've been called simply bec I was LIVING my life, supporting my kids is unbelievable).

    Is this the sister you saw on Christmas Day?

    Seems your D and sister have become "allies".

    Yeah I got no contact from my brother at all over Christmas after I invited him to our place. He doesn't even acknowledge we're alive any more (I know why, it's ALL about money, my sil wants ALL the inheritance - long story). Might have to have "the talk" with him sooner or later.

    Mark that's disgusting about your brother. More confirmation about the hypocrisy in "the church". I'd turn up to a sermon and introduce myself to the congregation!

    Families can be just another eff word truly.

    Love EM

    3 people found this helpful
  26. Matchy69
    Valued Contributor
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    Matchy69 avatar
    5602 posts
    29 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49
    Hi Jstar and em thanks you for your kind words.I think me being born was my brother's problem.We never got on when we were kids and nothing has really changed.I should be just use to it.
    2 people found this helpful
  27. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    29 December 2020

    Hi all,

    Thanks Em, thats all really useful info. Yes it does make sense, esp that bit about expecting me to be perfect somehow. Idolising wow. It sorta fits cos I'm the elder sib, so I guess the pedestal stuff. Would have thought she'd got used to it by now, but I guess it serves her purpose ie she gets m+d's attention pretty much to herself, cos I'm so awful that she can't be anywhere near me LOL! The things she has accused me of! and then when I pointed out that they're actually her traits, not mine...whoa...!!! So yeah, I can give it back too.

    Guess I have to get used to it, we've both been adults for awhile, and nothings has changed. Yes same sister I saw at Christmas. Only got one! And we've got the only kids, apart from one bro who lives away. She lost a baby full term, so she's been particularly wounded since then. Still, no excuse. Things like that sometimes make ppl more compassionate, not more horrible. She had nothing to turn to, no beliefs, nothing. Not saying she needs to believe in God, but something spiritual or energetic/nature etc would have been helpful I think.

    Yep D and sis def allies. They're both cut from the same cloth I think. I noticed as a child D had similar fingernails to sis- that was a warning in hindsight! Altho when we were estranged she wouldn't talk to D either. Looks like that's all forgiven.

    Mark we never used to get along either! So I guess those beliefs about whether someone is worth your time and energy are set down in childhood. I'm just the sucker that thinks we should all grow up and get over ourselves. But whenever I try I'm told that "I don't have time for your shit!" Ok! Some ppl just want to be miserable I guess, and make others miserable too.

    Thanks guys, it helps to vent, and have your feedback.

    Still angry. Gona have to do something about that!

    Good idea of Em's to turn up to a church service!! I'd love to see that!

    Cheers

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  28. golden82
    golden82 avatar
    372 posts
    29 December 2020 in reply to Jstar49

    Hi again Jstar - and all writing/reading this thread,

    I hope everyone is 'okay' :)

    I am sorry not posting much - I am exhausted/drained from this sort of abuse you guys are talking about. I have had a lifetime of it (I am 38yo now and it has gone off the charts the last 7 or 8..probably 10 yrs). I won't go into my story of hell, as this is your thread Jstar. But felt totally need to post this....as I am awakening also (slowly) from the fog I lived in (still living in - it is very hard to acknowledge ppl - your own family of origin can do this to you). It has destroyed me. I hope to get a bit of me back?? I hope this post will help some of you - Jstar for you - and anyone else reading....

    Tony WK is ABSOLUTELY 1000% correct. Thank you for your clear info on this Tony WK :) It happens behind your back - and maybe one or multiple ppl are what's called 'smear campaigning' about you. Sort of like gossip - and chinese whispers. Gathering/amassing everyone else to believe the lies they have made up about you. And feel sorry for them - the 'victim'. These followers - are known as 'flying monkeys' -

    EM is also TOTALLY 1000% correct. And explains so much better than me. The flying monkeys - in my case are extended family. But could be friends/neighbours whoever will listen to the crap about you. These ppl are cowards and do not have a spine to stand by you. Or gaining something from the controller. Either way, you get left BLINDSIDED - and alone. Trying to disprove the slander - but it just gets worse. It sucks and drains your energy.

    These ppl = if you can call them ppl - are what's called narcissists - and this is called narcissistic abuse. It is insidious and gaslights you - so that you believe their lies that you are the problem and makes you hate yourself etc. Obviously this is all very generalized how I am trying to put it for you guys. But I suggest you watch some youtubes of narcissism to gain an understanding.

    In my case - as with EM - my family are strongly narcs - with father definitely psychopath also. Funny thing is he was convincing family members I am a psychopath. This is called projection. I am actually an empath. Which is why this sort of stuff affected me and has destroyed me - Because I feel (and is actually why you get targeted). From reading everyone here - I think you are likely empaths too. I am learning this is not a weakness, but a strength to care.

    3 people found this helpful
  29. golden82
    golden82 avatar
    372 posts
    29 December 2020 in reply to golden82
    oops sorry EM - I re-read my post and my poor spelling and way of writing made it sound like your family are narcs...I am so sorry - I meant your 'demon' ex you write about. Not your beautiful family/kids. Hugs to you EM - you are an inspiration :)
    3 people found this helpful
  30. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    29 December 2020

    Hi Golden,

    Thanks for writing here, it def helps to know I am not alone, although it just sux that so many ppl go thru this sort of thing with family members!

    I could not believe for so long (and still find it hard) to think that this sort of behaviour could be purposeful and not just an aberration , a result of a miscommunication that could be sorted out. Like I say, I am naive! It wasn't until I could see that my sis had a vested interest in making me look bad- ie she gets to keep all the attention for herself and looks good in the process- that I could start to realise this was no accident. My mum absolutely supports the gaslighting and tries to make me responsible for everyone else's behaviour, as I'm seeing more clearly now. It's really hard to think of her as a narcissist- everyone thinks she's lovely.... My dad tho, he's def something...

    Gosh I have tried so hard to explain this to ppl! Thanks guys for explaining it to me. I feel sad cos I know it's only thru your own sad and bad experiences that you understand this stuff and I'm just glad we can support each other.

    Golden I'd love to hear more of your story. Please feel free to share it here, or if you have a thread where I can read up on it I shall. Totally happy to talk about it here tho.

    I guess having empathic abilities as a superpower also needs strong boundaries to balance it out... I learnt to protect myself when giving a massge or else I would take on the other persons headache or whatever. Maybe it's like that.

    Big hugs,

    J*

    2 people found this helpful

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