I want to discuss what honesty means to you and your health.

People say that they fake being well, or wear a mask so no one knows their pain.Is this being honest.

When we do not admit our flaws and our behaviours does this make it harder to have insight into our illness and harder to get better?

Do we need to be honest with ourselves and others in order to be well.?

Honesty can be a very subjective personal word. What one people feels is being honest another may feel is not.

For many years I was in denial about my illness so I would admit to myself I was ill, I was not honest.

So what does honesty mean to you? So lets start a conversation. All ideas welcome.

Everyone is welcome to comment, new posters, regular posters, I want everyone's ideas.

Quirky

Hi Q 😊

I think its important to be honest at least with ourselves.

Telling friends how deep it goes I do but kinda in general sense, too much to put on anyone, its a down to them so yes mask when Im down usually and you're right a mask isnt being honest but... sparing people

Honesty in ourselves yes I think we need to be aware of both our goods and bads, usually in depression we dont like ourselves so seeing our goods is important and bad points need work on so yeah honesty.

Thanks for another good thread Quirky 😊

Enjoy your break

Tc (take care

Gee Quirkyword thanks for the opening of this one. Thought provoking for sure. I know l have always expected everyone is telling the truth but now l am older my experience has taught me this is not the case. Always worried when others say,’lets me be honest’ ha so what was going on before that! So for me honesty is admiting to urself first why something does not feel right then if and big if l can do something about it l will. I could not just stop a job because something was bugging me l could not control. I use to get another one instead.

I have also learnt not to apply guilt with my illnesses if someone else is upset with me for say not wishing to do something then surely its on them not me.

I do not believe l have purposely lied to anyone but l have uncovered how l believed what l was taught to discover l did not actually believe alot of the concepts hense the letting go of old stuff. That is personal Obviously to how people see things. I know l honestly do not wish to have any of my illnesses but l do and l honestly do my best everyday. I have nothing to prove to anyone.

Honesty is very much alive in us l kinda feel it sits there waiting to be acknowledge then awoken for the individual to work out for themselves, or with help however that appears for them.

Giggles

Hello all

Thanks for your comments and for reading to new thread,

DB, I agree there is a shade of honesty when we want to protect people but I wonder if many people have a mask and dont reveal their pain how will we know how we are really feeling?

You are right depression distorts our truth and we see everything through a negative perspective which we view as being honest but which we know later is distortion. Thanks again for taking time to contribute.

Giggles, what a lovely name,

Thanks foryour comment. That is true when people say to be perfectfullyhonest or trust me, you wonder why they have to say it and you are wary hat they will say next.

I agree that honesty to oneself and trying to work out what does not feel right is important.

I think that as you say our concept of honesty can changes as our beliefs change and once I honestly believed I did not have bipolar and did not need help but now that has changed.

Giggles you have given us much to think about and I am interested as to what other people have to say about what Giggles, DB and myself have said.

Quirky

Thanks Quirky ☺

Yeah Giggles I smile every time I see that name its lovely 😀

Hello everyone,

Hi smallwolf, thanks for your interesting post.

I agree when you open up people are likely to tell you they or someone they know is seing a psych or has depression et. By being honest we low others to be honest too.

Being honest with our psychs mean we can unravel the deeper issues.

Quirky

Hey Smallwolf

Ditto came to mind with ur post. I have always felt that mask of social standings but must admit it has very solid foundations. However when my depression is what l call rampant l truly do not want to play the game so quite simply l don’t. Meds bring me back to working what l need to work u know going somewhere etc.

I guess it comes down to knowing how to work ur system amongst everyone elses. Is it just me or did u see that as funny too?

Thanks for comments Db and quirky

giggles

I guess that what I was trying to say, is that a question like "how are you" is really (?) just a throw away statement, perhaps to start a conversation or create the illusion of a conversation. Mostly we say we are ok or good. But if you really look at those three small words, the question can actually be much stronger/deeper than intended. But who wants to go there in the great unknown

Hello all

Giggles thanks for your comment.

I think you are right to need to work out if you are perceiving things the same way other people do. No one sees things in the same way.

Smallwolf thanks for the comment. I think the rods how are you in some ways are throw away lines- do people reall want to know how one is? If you have been honest with a stranger when they asked ow are you- they will change the topic.

Some future start with talking about the weather nit asking ho you are.

Thanks small wolf your comments are welcome and interesting.

Quirk

Switching direction to the 2nd part of your question...

I much prefer honesty. If you cannot do something, telling me why is preferable to making up some non-truth. Eventually the truth comes out and then I will think about why couldn't you have just told me that in the first place. And then the internal slow burn of anger starts. I am not one to shout at others, but rather it is internalized.

Much pain can be avoided if you tell the truth in the first place. I think.

Hello everyone

Smallwolf,

I suppose that begs the question what is the truth , what is honesty.

If I truly believe something that to others i not true, have I been dishonest when I believe it is true.

I know infamilies one child will firmly believe their parent was very critical and a sibling will believe how supportive they are. Who is being honest?

any responses welcome.

Quirky

Quirky,

(You are) Starting to get deep(er) now... truth, honesty and belief are all different. I had to include belief - Sorry.

To be truthful is to be factually correct. Put another way is honest and not telling any lies.

Honesty is (speaking) without he intent to deceive. So I can still be honest but not truthful.Think of how we might talk about money. You say that you have $10 in your wallet, when in fact you have $12. To be truthful, you would need to say that you have $12. Being dishonest however is the intent to deceive.

Belief on the other hand is acceptance that something exists or is true without proof.

In this case a child can believe their parents were supportive or critical, based on their own belief system(s) but is without proof. (This of course is separate to abuses that are noticed/visible etc. by 3rd parties.)

So to answer your question

If I truly believe something that to others i not true, have I been dishonest when I believe it is true.

then you are not being dishonest, as you do/did not have the intent to deceive?

And in the example of the children, if that is what they believe, they are being honest. Not necessarily truthful.

Therefore when I am with my psych or talking about feelings etc., I am being honest when I talk about my frustration etc. But that cannot necessarily be shown to be truthful, if facts are needed to backup.

Hope my response does not kill this discussion.

Hello everyone,

Wolfy your last post didn't kill the conversation it made me understand what was bothering me...

Therefore when I am with my psych or talking about feelings etc., I am being honest when I talk about my frustration etc. But that cannot necessarily be shown to be truthful, if facts are needed to backup.

I have this internal debate constantly. For example the facts of my childhood are wonderful. But when I speak about my issues amd experiences with my psychiatrist I feel and see problems. I see how horrible some of the experiences were.

To address these I have to be blunt and honest because burying these feelings leads me right back to harmful thoughts.

And yet I feel so much guilt.

Am I just being a drama queen?

Am I being truthful?

Am I being honest?

Am I full of BS?

Can I trust my memories?

Am I biased?

The list goes on and on and on and on. But the most important thing I worry about is does speaking up hurt others? Is it really worth dissecting my past and digging up everything if I improve at the expense of people I love?

Hey small wolf

that was an excellent explanation. well done for even taking it on to answer. It is true.

What do you expect someone to say to you when you ask how they are?

Giggles

Hey Quercus

Interesting point about wondering if you can hurt others by speaking up. I guess that depends on what the thing is about hey and what the outcome will be for those involved.

I have found it amazing that the unplanned conversations can bring out truths and I have been surprised to hear how people truly feel about something that happened years ago. So on balance I suppose I have hurt some people with out intention because I do not know whats going on in peoples lifes and its vertiually imposssible to know and visa versa. How can they know whats up with us.

So its kinda good to wait things out just to see what is going to happen it might bring an answer that you never contemplated.

I now sit with knowing I only have to look after my feelings and especially those negative thoughts that can have the ability to destroy my life. My fight is personal. No one knew I was unconsciously taking on my families problems and I know they would not care about that because they would not understand how it works. So I do not feel I would accomplish anything with speaking up about certain things and have more personal power resolving something in my way.

However it truly depends on the issue hey. Mine is mainly emotional baggage. I am learning how to break it down so joy can come through sometimes. Actually more nowadays. So it helps with being just more positive in myself. It is not a fix for other problems that will need attention at the right time. But good to know I am not responsiable for other peoples problems anymore more thinking time for me.

Giggles

Hello everyone,

Thanks for the great discussions presented here. It has given me lots to think about.

Smallwolf, you have described the differences well and mentioned intention to deceive as a very important point.

I see your distinction between honesty and truth - but who decides what is truth. The truth can change over time even scientific truths have chnaged over the centuries.

Sometimes when we talk to others how can we honest when we are not honest with ourselves. When I was in denial about my bipolar I would tell everyone I was fine and coping and I suppose I believed that but if I had been truly honest I would have admitted there were timesI was struggling.

Your response has envigorated the discussion. Thanks

Quirky

Hello all,

Nat, Thanks for your thoughtful post that asks many interesting questions.

You said you worry about does speaking up hurt others? So by examining your past you improve but not your loved ones.

If you tell your pyschologist things doesn't that just stay there ,or are you talking about confronting others or just bringing up things from the past.?

It is a great question maybe even a thread in itself. I suppose

I have on the other end with one of my children wanting to go over the past at great lengths when all it does is get complicated and stress me. I suppose I have dealt with it as I know she needed to do dissect her past to move forwards.The next question is when looking to past people have different views about what happened and different memories.

If to people have totally different truths about what happened at a certain time in their lives that gets stressful and complicated.

I may have gone off on a tangent.

Quirky

Hello everyone reading ,

Giggles what ain interesting answer to Nats question. I like the way you considered different parts of the question and related it to your personal experience.

I answered it before I read your reply and thats the great thing about questions there is more than one way to answer a question.

You brought up many different points.

I like the way how you have worked out what works for you. Rather than speaking up about some topics you have decided to resolve them personally which gives you more personal power. I had not thought about it like that.

Often if I did thatI was accused of avoiding an issue or denying the past .

I agree it depends on the issue and the importance to the individual.

I like the image of joy coming through the emotional baggage and having more time for yourself and not feeling you have to be responsible for everyone's problems.

Giggle, thanks so much for your post as I find them most helpful .

Quirky

Thank you everyone for such a interesting discussion. It has left my head reeling a little.

I'm not sure I have much too offer, probably just going over what others have already said.

I guess, I see honesty as 'what I believe in, at any given time'. For instance I believe that the memories I have recalled in the past 7 years honestly happened. However, the truth is - did it. I don't really know. There is no one to ask - so I have to live in the belief it did and I honest believe that.

The truth however is always subjective. While scientist try to make out something is the truth, you will just as quickly find another scientist who has an opposing view. Who is right?? The climate change doomsayers or the climate change non-believers? I have my own views on this topic which is based on my values that I use during life experiences and my knowledge (as limited as it is). However, the person sitting next to me on the bus will have a different view point I'm sure. Just as my brothers and I differ in how we perceive our lives as we grew up. I

Hope this has helped the discussion and not stymied it.

Kind regards

PamelaR

Hi Quirky

If our mental health condition starts to effect our day to day well being we are only prolonging our illness by not being brutally honest with our psychologist/psychiatrist/GP to get the help we really need

To feel uncomfortable/awkward/upset in front of our counselor is an essential part of the recovery process

You have a good thread here Quirky...Nice1

No Pain...No Gain...just continuation of our existing symptoms

Paul

Hello everyone

Every contribution helps.

Pamela your post was most thoughtful.

You say the truth is always subjective. I wonder if that depoends on how e define the truth.

I think I find that honesty is needed for my mental health,

Blond guy,I agree brutal honesty is needed to ourselves and to health professionals.

No pain, No gain - well summed up Paul.

All comments are welcome here, I am interested in how honesty may play a part in your mental health journey.

Quirky

Hello to all

Thanks for your kind words Quirky. This thread is really good as for getting things moving mentally & emotionally.

Keeping with the theme of being honest l did that a few times last week by checking that nudge l get inside if l am not sure about doing something, l use to just do it but now l know l do not need to l actually felt good in my HONEST approach to saying no and no guilt at all. It got a quiet yahoo from me. So l do not know for others but maybe feeling ok about no sometimes is an honest attempt at doing your thing. I felt good not being caught up in peoples life in this particular case.

No one got hurt and l did my thing.

All good.

Giggles

Hello veryone

Giggles , thanks so much for your feedback. I would Ike to know the secret of not feeling guilt when saying no to someone or just nit feeling guilt at all. I have never known that feeling.

I do worry if I am honest with myself about what I can cope with I let others down.

I am glad this worked for you and it shows how being honest worked for you.

Quirky

Hello everyone.

Good discussion going here. It helps keep my mind alert and functioning.

Quirky, Tony and Giggles - Having a need for 'honesty' is good! I'm not trying to say that it isn't. Particularly when you are talking with your doctor and psych - it's essential. If you're not honest then you wont progress with life.

It's just for me that I can see that a person's honesty is based on their own perceptions. And that is okay, it just helps me to understand where the other person is coming from. It can be from a bad place or it could be from a good place. It helps me to not feel guilt, if and when I say no to something. I'm dealing with this issue right now as a matter of fact. My brother, as a child, has anyways said 'no' to something he's just done, when he's done something 'right in front of me'. Flatly refuses to say 'yes', I did that. He still is exactly the same. It's infuriating and I'm trying to understand him, so I'll keep visiting him at the nursing home. It would be so easy to just walk away and never see him again. But I don't, but I am learning to not do things he wants to, because he always has an ulterior motive. It's hard.

Quirky - yes, I think you're absolutely right. It does depend on how one defines 'truth'. Ummm, and as I studied social sciences at uni, I'm very much a follower of Michel Foucault's way of thinking. I'm not sure how to explain how I see 'truth', 'honesty' and 'belief' easily. It quite complex and highly disputed by many of the different disciplines. So I'll leave it as is for now, as how I define truth, also impacts on my definition of honesty.

Thank you everyone for putting up with my ranting..... Methinks I may have to go back to studying again.

Kind regards

PamelaR

Hey Quirky

I read a post from Mandy8 a couple of hours ago which really rang some bells for me as I failed to see a psychologist in the first few years of my anxiety/depression. I was a dill as my symptoms only exacerbated by thinking I would be dwelling on my problems

Mandy8 mentioned "those of us who have never sought help in the past (friends, family, professional) are likely to persist in that same pattern of behavior. This increases our sense of isolation, feelings of hopelessness and the thought that there is no other way through, other than to end things"

Thankyou again for the great thread topic Quirky. It will help many readers of the forums as well as the posters

Nice1

Paul

Hello all

Pamela,a ver concise thoughtful post not a rant at all.

To me asI have written before it is about definitions and perceptions,. AS Yu say so wellHow I define truth also impacts on my definition of honesty.

Paul, welcome and thanks. So are you and Mandy saying we need to be realistic and totally honest with ourselves that we need help that we can't do it alone instead of pretending we are fine .

As i have written before I was in denial for many many years about having bipolar and now I see that denial was being dishonest with myself as a coping mechanism. As long as I could convince myself I didn't have a label I could pretend I was ok and everything would be all right.

The reality was my life wac chaotic, I hurt people I loved and did incredible damage to my reputation and physical and emotional health. Hindsight is a great thing.

I do think you have to be ready to accept te truth from others and to be honest with yourselves.

Quirky

Hey Quirky

I was only speaking from my own experience where burying my problems under the mat was concerned. It was a long time ago and I regret not jumping into therapy sooner.....but thats only my opinion

Its important that people of any age understand that the earlier any mental illness is treated the better our recovery will be. I am only one person that put off early treatment which only reinforced the anxiety I was suffering from which later morphed into clinical depression (my problem...not anyone else)

To be honest with any type of counselor is a huge step forward towards recovery. I am the same as you Quirky and not a fan of 'labels' either. As usual you are spot on

Any psychological disorder/illness is no different to a physiological illness. Its only in my experience that people who do suffer from any illness reap the rewards of 'letting go' in front of a health professional. We have everything to gain and nothing to lose by doing so

I dont really understand your last sentence. I am just fumbling with 'accepting the truth from others'. You have written a great thread topic here. I am only trying to help our readers and people that are experiencing pain and anguish with any psychological issue no matter what the 'label' is if thats okay

Thanks again for the great post. It is a huge help to the 70% of people that choose to 'read only' and not post...and any posters (30%) on the forums too :-)

Thankyou for your patience and understanding Quirky

Paul

PS...Most sufferers of any illness wears a 'I am fine' mask like I and everyone does. It has been covered on the forums many times. I still do the same. Just for me the honesty comes in by acceptance of our disorder and being proactive and honest with a qualified person that can help us help ourselves find some peace :-)

Hello everyone,

To be honest Paul I sometimes reread my posts and wonder what I meant and I appreciate your honesty too.

I think what I meant to say was in my opinion some people need to be able to accept the truth from others to be able to be honest with themselves.

For others it could be the reverse.

I suppose on this thread I am just exploring different concepts and ideas and I am interested in contributions from everyone.

Paul your posts are always motivating and thoughtful.

Quirky

Hi Everyone, this is an interesting thread.

It's virtually impossible for anyone to overcome or to even cope with their own type of depression, I've been saying that for years, we need to talk to someone without any hesitation, someone like a psych just to say 'I need your help'.

Pretending to understand something only to spend hours later trying to figure it out on my own can't and won't work, simply because we avoid those difficult issues, why, well we have no idea of where to start, too scared to even think of them, so we push them aside, but these are the main reasons for our depression.

If you ask for help this isn't any sign that you are weak, it's quite the opposite, you know that you can't do it alone by yourself, that was my mistake and if I had seen a psych earlier then my marriage might have survived.

We do wear masks to pretend to everyone that there is no problem, but even so, a mask can't hide the real you.

'The earlier any mental illness is treated the better our recovery will be.' Geoff.