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Topic: Chronic ideation

  1. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    26 December 2020
    Hi,

    Hopefully I'm within guidelines, let me know if not!

    So I've always struggled with anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation. The three things are almost like domino's, anxiety leading to depression to ideation, quite quickly.

    I finally had enough mid year and went to the GP and was put on SSRI. it helped a lot for months. Sadly, the crazy season tipped me over the edge and I feel hard.

    Interestingly, the warning sign for me is the prevalence of suicidal ideation that occurs. Those thoughts are always there (even when I'm relatively happy) but the thoughts are coming thick and fast now. I won't go into detail, but it is always the same mechanism of death, over and over and over.

    Last night I almost fell into old habits and called someone to stay using again (it has been a decade). The motivation for this was extremely scary, and holding back was hard. I woke up this morning again in a bad state (though better than yesterday).

    Does anyone have any advice on pushing through this? I don't want to feel like this anymore.

    Thanks
  2. Truc
    Truc avatar
    38 posts
    26 December 2020 in reply to M2
    Hi M2

    Before I got slightly addicted to some drugs and also had depression before, so I hope my story could help you a little bit. Before, I did not have many friends when I moved into a new environment, it is hard for me to make friends because I am an introvert, therefore I drank beer, drinking helped me to have more courage to go to talk with others as comfortably as I want, however, of course drinking too much would not be good for sure, I got hangover and my work life, relationship...etc had been going down hill, so I decided to stop because I know drinking is a solution for a superficial cause, the root behind is I am an introvert, so if I want to make friends I should go find someone who may have similar characters to me and also learn from others even they are introverts or extroverts, people are nice to teach us and tell us what they know, so by that way I can make friends easier, and friends are not everything, I find to have a hobby, I would say a healthy hobby, what do I mean by that ? A healthy hobby could bring you joy, happiness, meaning, value... Such as photography which would break our ruminating thoughts especially negative thoughts. And by this way, I am able to avoid the drinking addiction as well. I think if we rely on something too much, we tend to get addicted, and without it, the symptoms may get worse I ssuppose. Im not sure about others, but I think we all have an addiction, thinking negative is also a mental addiction in my perspective, so why dont we choose another healthy addiction anyways? . i hope it is helpful.
    1 person found this helpful
  3. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    26 December 2020 in reply to Truc
    I really appreciate you taking the time to reply. In some ways that in itself is helpful.

    Some context (stop me if this gets boring): I run a lot r (to get tired, mainly to avoid anxiety), I have many friends, a family, kids, wife, an excellent job (although it does with a lot of responsibility and therefore stress), I write, read, socialise, I live a busy life, there is just something "broken" in me.

    The drugs thing... many years ago I got caught up with a specific drug. It is a long story and something I have overcome. Iast night wasn't a need to get high.

    My wife is very supportive, I just wish I could push through and get to the other side happy and carefree.
  4. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    26 December 2020 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    Nice to talk with you again, even if under these circumstances. Seeing you making use of us as a resource when in need is good for us as well as (hopefully) you. I am impressed you resisted the temptation to use drugs to try to cope -that was brave and showed strenght -as does your being clean for 10 years. Very impressed.

    I'm also gladdened you have someone there to support you and that you talk with her. Again brave to open up, and sensible.

    I too had a specific method to kill myself in mind, at times it was almost like it was drawing me closer, and like you have bursts of depression plus anxiety

    I found there was no way I could get out of it myself, unlike you I did not confide in my partner for a very long tme and was not been treated for the things I needed as I was very reticent with my succession of GPs too.

    Eventually it did all come to a head and I ended up with an excellent GP who could see my condition was beyond his ability to treat effectively so worked in conjunction with a psychiatrist. Things improved, my thoughts of suicide receded and became less powerful and over tme I was able to have happiness in my life.

    It's pretty obvious that your current treatment is no longer effective and you are entering the same dangerous and unhappy life you had before.

    May I suggest you have an extended consultation wiht oyur GP, lay out hte facts including those thoughts of taking your life (hard to do that, I know) . Then discuss options, with perhaps the preferred one you are referred to a psychologist or psychiatrist who tends to specialize in suicidal ideation, review you medication between them and see what happens.

    Just at the start that may only be hope, but even that is an improvement. Constant feedback is essential, if local professionals can only see you one every couple of months then if it was me I'd investigate tele-health.

    There is another side to get to, I'm there and although not quite symptom free(they are pretty much controlled) have a good life wiht ability, satisfaction, able to receive and give support and love.

    I hpe to talk with you some more.

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  5. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    27 December 2020 in reply to Croix
    Thanks for the kind response and advice, Croix. It means a lot!!!
  6. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    27 December 2020 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    Relying upon hte frequency of thoghts about taking you life does not strike me as a particularly good way of self-assessment - it's driving way too close to the edge. you used to see movies with rope bridges across ravines (pretty sure Harrison Ford Was in a couple, then you's see hte rope start to fray. Could be most unlucky.

    Actually it is a problem I've had to face, as have many others. I use a safety plan called a "Wellness Recovery Action Plan" or W.R.A.P.

    https://mentalhealthrecovery.com/
    (
    pay-for though cheap or find one free on the web like I did)

    It has sections in it for how you feel and behave from normal life to crisis, and also has what other people say at each stage, so it is not entirely subjective. If I start to go down I have a set of dos/don't do's for each section, up to crisis level where I switch over to the free smartphone app BeyondNow

    https://www.beyondblue.org.au/get-support/beyondnow-suicide-safety-planning

    It does not take you as close to the edge as you can take action early.

    As you can see lots of problems are common to many of us

    Croix

  7. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    28 December 2020 in reply to Croix
    Thanks, I'll take a look.

    The rope bridge analogy is apt. 

    Probably more something for the depression forum, but the most bizarre thing for me is that I cannot point to the source of my unhappiness. I plan to call my GPs centre today (she is on leave but any gp will do right now)
  8. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    28 December 2020 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    I wish it was as simple as identifying a source and going from there. I have a feeling a lot of the time this is not possible (or only partly so) and other approaches have to be taken. That is not to say there is no hope, just several different ways of accomplishing the same thing.

    Mine was easy to establish at it involved duties and events in the police, for others it is more obscure.

    With the rope bridge, Harrison always gets safely across just as it breaks, I'm not sure that corresponds with real life though :)

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  9. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    28 December 2020 in reply to Croix
    I think having something concrete to point at would help immensely. Instead, I describe my anxiety as one worry being replaced with another when it is resolved, like water filling in the void, another concern fills its place.

    The cause of depression is even less obvious, I cannot tell you a single reason why I should be feeling this way right now, but the doesn't lessen the impact and severity of it. If anything it adds to the despair, given the lack of clarity (and long history) imply no relief in sight.

    The rope bridge is untangling fast, but it isn't my first one, I'm sure I'll be fine, i just wish I could somehow be better prepared for the next one
  10. Croix
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    29 December 2020 in reply to M2

    Dear M2

    I've often felt htat my brain wishes to worry, and then simply picks on something, and if I get over that it picks on something else, sort of until a daily quota of worry is met.

    Hope that makes some sort of sense.

    As for having something concrete to point to, maybe that might help, I do thing having a set of ore-planed actions to take when worry or depression descends. That is why I use a WRAP plan, it gives you Ind a trusted other too if you can) a replete of what to do as you ascertain the severity of the attack.

    Sort of life boat drill in a cruise ship :) Actually I'd not be surprised if you could not pick up a cruise ship at again basement prices ATM.

    To be serious for a moment it gives you things to do that you thought up before, no brain power involved when you are in distress.

    Rope bridges were always meant to be overcome, they were a classic cliff-hanger to end a Saturday Movie Serial in the 30's and 40's, drawing the audience back for the following week.

    Maybe in time a skillful therapist will uncover early problems (provided you are strait with them, something that took me a long time).

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  11. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    12 May 2021 in reply to Croix

    I can't stop the ideation, it is so pervasive. I wake up and immediately think (almost as comfort) specific imagery which I won't go into. I'm starting to self harm. This at least I recognise as specifically not something intended (at least ostensibly) as an attempt at suicide, but the constant flood of suicidal thoughts is scary.

    Why am I doing this? I have a good job, a fantastic relationship, kids, a future. Why the hell am I drawn to depression and thoughts of an "out"?

    I'm so sorry for people on this forum having to read this, given there are more worthy and needy people. Please only reply if you have considered them first

  12. Sophie_M
    Community Moderator
    • Works for beyondblue moderating these forums
    Sophie_M avatar
    6816 posts
    12 May 2021 in reply to M2
    Hi M2,

    So sorry to hear that your thoughts are consuming you to the point of flooding you with fear. It is leading you to self-harm, which must be taking a toll on you. You are worthy and in need of support and we are here to help you. We have contacted you privately to offer you support. 

    Sometime life doesn't make sense as we can have everything on the outside and yet on the inside, something important is missing. There’s no blame here, just a desire to reach out to you and support you.

    There are other supports that you can also reach out to like Lifeline (13 11 14) or the Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467). 

    MensLine Australia is a free 24/7 telephone and online counselling service for men with emotional health and relationship concerns. You can contact them on 1300 78 99 78 or https://mensline.org.au/ 

    If you would like some help finding mental health support, we would recommend that you get in contact with the Beyond Blue Support Service. They are available 24/7 by phone on 1300 22 4636 or on Webchat 1pm-12am AEST on our website: www.beyondblue.org.au/getsupport  One of our friendly counsellors will be able to talk through these feelings with you and can offer support, advice and referrals. 

    You are not alone here and nor do you have to be. The community is here to support you.
     
  13. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    12 May 2021 in reply to Sophie_M
    Thanks Sophie, it means a lot that you have reached out. I'm sorry to add to your load.
  14. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    12 May 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    Welcome back, I'm glad Sophie_M was here to greet you and give you those sensible resources.

    I guess the first thing to say is you take as much time on this Forum as you want, you are important and in great need, and the way you express yourself is thoughtful and will not upset others -thank you for that. Plus you are not adding to any load, we are here to help you, you are entitled.

    I guess I've said before the outside circumstances on one's life can look absolutely terrific, however it is really irrelevant to the way you feel. As in my life depression can narrow down one's mind to just a few things, dangerous, hopeless while blocking out all else.

    I'm afraid to say self-harm is dangerous. I'd expect you know this already however an accident, becoming used to it leading to greater and greater harm to achieve the same effect, or a instant change of intent and then it is too late.

    Beyond Blue does have some things to say about it here (my apologies if you have seen this all before)

    https://www.beyondblue.org.au/the-facts/suicide-prevention/feeling-suicidal/self-harm-and-self-injury

    As far as I know having a trusted someone you can go to when the urge becomes too great is a pretty good way of avoiding the act.

    It tends to be a specialist area when it comes to treatment, like the suicidal thoughts and the depression, and I'm not sure if you are having any treatment at all at this time

    Would you like to say if you have medical support at the moment? I could not function without it and although am now in a good life I still rely on meds and therapy, just a normal part of life now. It works well though

    If you are not may I suggest it - quickly go see your GP/Psych or whomever in an extended consultation and be really frank and truthful (I found that hard and downplayed things). If you are already being treated then I guess you need to tell your medical team that the treatment/therapy is ineffective and needs a major rethink. Would that be something you could do?

    Also do you have in mind anyone you can use as a safety-valve and contact when you start to feel overwhelmed? I am most lucky in having a sensible partner I can confide in, and it really helps

    It's been a while since you were here before and I'm wondering if things got better for a while. If so and the rope bridges stopped fraying so fast was there any reason you can think of?

    Another Q: is there anything you enjoy now or in the past?

    Hope to talk again, I'm worried about you

    Croix

  15. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    14 May 2021 in reply to Croix

    Hi Croix,

    Thanks for reaching out, I really appreciate the work you and others do here.

    I saw a GP and was given medication (SSRI) and for a time I saw some progress.

    The self harming is new, and it alarms me too. I initially thought it was a "cry for help" but the fact that I keep it hidden from the world (aside from here) says otherwise. All I can say is that it feels right to do it, against my better judgement.

    I don't feel that the ideation is currently threatening to push into actions, but I have had recent days (the day I posted here recently is an example) where actions feel tantalisingly close.

    my self esteem is at it's lowest, though none would guess. It feels like I'm betraying myself reaching out in this way.

    I never thought I would reach my 40s and still "have" this.

  16. Sophie_M
    Community Moderator
    • Works for beyondblue moderating these forums
    Sophie_M avatar
    6816 posts
    14 May 2021 in reply to M2
    Hey M2,

    It's really good to hear that you've reached out to your GP about these feelings, and that you were seeing some progress with the medication they gave you. Do you think you might feel comfortable opening up to your GP about the recent self-harming? It sounds like this must be so much to cope with on your own, and we hope that you can continue to find some comfort from your friends here on the forums.

    We hope that you also always feel welcome to reach out and talk these feelings through with the kind counsellors at our Beyond Blue Support Service (1300 22 4636), friends at Lifeline (13 11 14), or the Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467). Sometimes talking these feelings through over the phone, with someone who cares and understands can be a really important next step in finding the right support that works for you. They can also help you to start the conversation with other supports, like GPs, mental health practitioners, and loved ones, if this is feeling like something a bit too overwhelming for you at the moment.

    Please feel free to keep updating us whenever you feel up to it , we are all here to help you through this M2.
  17. Missing user
    Missing user avatar
    14 May 2021 in reply to M2

    hello M2, welcome.

    i'm sorry to hear all of this. are you able to do anything to distract yourself from the SH or the thoughts of doing so?

    even if i can't help much, please know i care. you're loved and cared for. please stay safe.

  18. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    22 May 2021 in reply to Missing user

    Hi mb20,

    My busy life means I'm distracted much of the day, but the quiet times before the day starts and after it ends seems to bring my thoughts to these inevitable subject matter. I've recently started running, and this also helps distract, but the thoughts don't end. At this stage I do not think I am close to any drastic action, and I'm thankful for that. The thoughts are scary enough.

    I saw my GP and have again been referred to a psychologist. Historically this hasn't seemed to work well for me (aside from some quite strange results from EMDR), but I will try again with a new therapist, and hopefully this will help.

    My doctor is also suggesting a shift in medication. Tbh I would prefer to ditch the medication completely.

    thanks again to everybody here, I'm not sure how much feedback you get, but services like this help a lot.

  19. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    23 May 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    Yes I agree it is a frightening thing to have the possibilities of what you might do always present at the back of your mind. Looking for the cause may not straightforward and on the surface there can seem to be no reason you can point too.

    I can't talk about self-harm from a personal perspective (other than what I have already discussed with you) however in my own case when it came to suicidal thoughts when I did open up to my partner then I had an extra resource, I knew if I told her what I was feeling I'd get comfort and understanding, even if no concrete answers. It made a lot of difference

    Do you think you could do the same with your partner? A talk may well end up feeling better than hurting yourself. It's not as if all this will be a big surprise as you have explained your suicidal thoughts before.

    I'd imagine covering up your self harm actions might not be as successful as you imagine. Even if the physical results are not visible your mood and attitude would probably be noticed by your partner and be a cause of deep worry - you might be doing her a kindness with frank talk and giving her a chance to simply be with you in hard moments.

    I can understand that if your first psych was no help you may well have a lack of faith in subsequent practitioners. This can be a false trail, as you are in charge and can seek the one who gets to know you, clicks, understands and maps out a plan together with you . I have had to try more than one psych, and have been lucky in finding one who I ended up trusting and respecting.

    I also believe (and this is just my opinion) that the mode of treatment, CBT, DBT, Talk Therapy etc. is not as important as the relationship.

    I also tried a fair number of different medications (which was a right pain, tailing off one, ramping up the next) however I'm glad I did as my current meds, which I've been on for 5+ years, suit me down to the ground. Little side-effects and they do the job. Not perfect but good enough for me to live a life well worth living.

    I'd like it if you came back to say how things went (or for any other reason you like)

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  20. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    23 May 2021 in reply to Croix

    Hi Croix,

    Thanks for your thoughtful message.

    My wife is aware of my lifelong anxiety and depression, and is a great comfort to me, and has supported me for years. She is aware that at times I have experienced suicidal ideation, but it caused great distress and in turn caused a great deal of anxiety in her. I wasn't able to express the difference between thoughts, plans and actions, so she put me on suicide watch. I would like to work on this without unnecessarily causing her pain. I understand (right now with a clarity I do acknowledge I won't always have) that actions would cause her much much more pain, but I feel approaching that I would indeed reach out for her support.

    as far as self harm goes, she has noticed and we have discussed this. Again, it caused distress, but I'm currently hiding the extent of it, which is growing. I do understand this is really not a good thing, I'll work on this.

    I have seen seven different psychologists in over 20 years. I have tried mindfulness, meditation, and particularly focused on cbt. Cbt on paper would really suit me as I tend to have a clinical, analytical view on some things, and cutting through the self bias feels like it would be great. Unfortunately in practice so far it hasn't. I will try again though, as I see this as some fault of my own, or something I'm missing and I'd like to try again. As I said, EMDR caused me to bizarrely breakdown (in a good way) and a ton of unknown emotions were unravelled and released, which I feel is the only effective practice that has "worked" for me. I yearn for more success like this.

    On a personal front, thankyou for responding now and in the past, it means a lot.

    I look forward to seeing the new psychologist and would welcome any other advice you might have

  21. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    23 May 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2

    "I wasn't able to express the difference between thoughts, plans and actions"

    Um,

    I couldn't either as as far as I can see - at least in my own case - matters were too unstable for me to draw valid distinctions, even if I thought I could, the unexpected was always a possibility.

    I can understand the mixed feelings you have about giving a more accurate account of how you feel to your wife, after all if she is very worried now it seems logical that saying more would increase her anxiety and distress.

    I found that by including my partner in the steps I took to keep myself safe it gave her a sense she had some control over matters, which in turn relived a little bit of her worry. This allowed me to be entirely frank with her.

    I did this by getting her help to fill in the BeyondNow safety plan app I mentioned before. I found I was terrible at filling it in, leaving sections blank, and not being able to remember what had made me feel good in the past. My wife did remember and the plan was filled out with exact references rather than generalizations, eg instead of 'listen to music' it was 'listen to the Stones "Paint it Black" or "the Muppet version of "Gods away on business"...

    It applied to all sorts of media from books to films, and also places to go and people I could contact who she suggested would be sensible. You get the idea?

    As BeyondNow really should not have fixed content but be dynamic, needing tweaking frequently to reflect new things in my life this gave an ideal opportunity to include her in things -and it did make a difference. I guess the technical term might be empowering.

    Last time I tried to convey that the psych is your equal, they are the expert on treatment, you are the expert on you. I'd suggest you tell them about the lack of success of CBT, your reactions to EMDR and talk over which avenues are most likely to bear fruit. If the new psych takes no notice or the therapies are outside their range then please consider changing again.

    CBT or its equivalent I think was given to me either too early or else in some other way that was not good, I felt consistently worse. Other therapies did better.

    Hope to hear from you

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  22. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    26 May 2021 in reply to Croix

    Thanks Croix,

    You offer very good advice about reaching out to my wife for support. She is always there for me. During the depths of covid she had her own mental health struggles and I'm just a little worried I may trigger some of that. I have tentatively reached out to her for help, but I haven't opened up quite to the full extent just yet. My worry and concern for her seem to be a blocker I need to get through. Our relationship is great, so it seems strange that I'm holding back. It's just fear I guess. Fear and a long, long practice of holding it all in.

    I had my first session today. It was a relief to talk through my current issues. I broke down a little, and later felt mortified and tried to convince myself that there are bigger issues in the world and that I should cancel my next session and just deal with it. I haven't yet done this, but the temptation is high. Sometimes I think my tendency to minimise my issues is some kind of self sabotage. The reality is my issues are many layers deep and seems to be self protecting itself from any help.

    You should know that this thread has offered more support to me than anything else recently. Thankyou.

    my therapist thinks my recent self harm is a coping mechanism, and that the fact that emdr was quite effective in the past indicates there may be a history of repressed trauma. I don't see how this is possible.

    I've also recently been diagnosed with adhd (at 44!) Inattentive type. This came up as a side effect of my son being diagnosed recently. I'm told this can often impact self esteem, anxiety, depression. Knowing this helps I guess.

  23. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    27 May 2021 in reply to M2

    One last, late night thought.

    Is it possible, from a philosophical level, to concede that my moving on could possibly be a virtuous pursuit? My thoughts aren't currently strictly rational, but is it possible an objective argument could be reached that my non existence is perhaps a superior state - at least to others! - that should be considered? Recently my conclusions have tended to view only emotional ties (as important as they are!) that hold me here. Weighing this up is something of a cost benefit analysis, and it is very difficult to assign value for and against without at least some levels of subjectivity.

    that understanding that I'm not perhaps thinking 100% rationally is a bit constraint on these thoughts, but I feel it could be possible to rationalise this down the track, with arguments for and against without resorting to emotion.

    I guess at the end of the day this is what life is, weighing up the benefits of each decision and assessing each as fairly and with as few biases as possible

  24. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    27 May 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    No you are not thinking rationally I'm afraid. You have not realized the consequences of your actions, on yourself or others.

    Mind you I felt the same way at one stage and it is only luck I'm here talking with you now. I thought people would either not notice, or in some cases be better off wihtout me being alive. They could go on with their lives unburdened as it were.

    A long time later I told my partner about this and she was horrified, her world would have ended, as would that of my offspring. I also look back myself from my current life, the things I've done, people I've helped, people I've annoyed, satisfactions and defeats I've felt -and all the rest. That would never have happened if I'd taken my life. I'm glad to be alive, it's that simple.

    Your mind has taken you down a false trail, as it did mine, caused in my case by depression which seems to do two things, the first being blocking everything out of my life except a few hopeless and insoluble 'facts' from which there was no escape. Never mind the world is actually much larger and filled with all sorts of things, including the interesting, fun, enjoyable as well as opportunities.

    Actually a TV program I'd enjoyed before reminded me there were things outside that little sphere of misery and my thinking started to change.

    The other think is depression seems to want to resit anything other than itself, filling my mind to overfull and making me resist all else. I had no time or patience or room in my mind to cope with others.

    The above is all logic, and logic does not always cut the mustard when your thoughts take this turn.

    Try, please, to think of things you have enjoyed in the past, it's a good way out. Then talk with another so you are not isolated like you are now.

    It's at this point a well thought out BeyondNow Safety Plan would be a help (that's a hint:)

    Croix

  25. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    8 June 2021 in reply to Croix

    This is all great, I'm just not able to relate to it right now.

    I've been here before so many times I think I've lost the taste for it.

    I'm sure I'll be fine. I downloaded the safety plan, I'll check it out. Thanks croix

  26. Croix
    Community Champion
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    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    8 June 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2

    No logic does not help, though sometimes like advertising it can creep in unnoticed. I'm glad you are going to downloads the safety plan, filling it out can itself be distraction and I've found the end product can be a comfort to posess.

    Croix

  27. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    12 June 2021 in reply to Croix

    Thanks mate. Sorry for using up your time. I'm sure there are other more worthy ppl out there in need, so I appreciate it.

    As an aside, as much as I truly believe my life is one I would prefer to end, I have decided the pain it would cause (for the moment) means I should remain. The maths involved sounds callous, but that's where I'm at. This might change down the track, and I'm disappointed, and agitated, but ideation will be just something I do, without plans.

    I have decided to end my psych sessions, I'm not gelling with her, and the experience just underscores my disappointment with therapy I've had in the past.

    I'm signing out here, it leaves a bad taste that I reach out here so much. For others this is great, but my needs are not as great as others.

    Thanks Croix, You do good work

  28. Croix
    Community Champion
    • Outstanding members who have volunteered their time to support others here on the forums
    • Life membership is awarded by beyondblue for providing outstanding peer support to the online community over a period of 3+ years.
    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    12 June 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2~

    My time is for you, and saying others need it more is bullshit - you are as deserving and in need as anyone I've talked with. I'm nothing special, just a volunteer who tries to stop others having all the anguish I had.

    OK your therapy is not up to scratch, that means you change it, not give up! I've been fortunate in my psychiatrists, less so with psychologists and have gone from the state of thinking I should stay for my family and for my work, to thinking they would be better off without me, to trying to take my life. All the way from there to my current very good life.

    I guess if I read back over most of what I've said to you they have been the more practical things, from treatment to enjoyment and distraction.

    Maybe a different tack - talking of what else is in the world, perhaps that might help. My eyes were closed to this during the worst of it.

    I can retreat into a different place at times, one far removed from everyday life. I'm standing on a plateau on the side of a mountain, the plateau edging cliffs. There is short sheep nibbled turf, with the occasional granite outcrop.

    On three sides I can se the sea, not blue and calm, but grey and with white-caps to the waves right out to hte horizon. The sky is grey with low clouds and I an see rain squalls heading in towards me on the strong buffeting winds.

    The winds are so strong I almost lose my balance and have to lean into them.

    The rain stings my bare face and runs down like tears, but the rest of me is clothed, warm and dry. A seagull swoops past, driven by the wind, wings half closed.

    It all reminds me there is more in life than in my limited horizons and gives me peace at the size and permanence of that little other corner of the world.How many corner are there?

    There is more that is different, even exotic, than you can see now.

    I hope you do respond

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful
  29. M2
    M2 avatar
    39 posts
    14 June 2021 in reply to Croix

    Thanks mate. Believe me when I say you do good work, and that - if I have issues - they are not a result of any of the awesome and relevant advice you have given me. I have a great deal of respect for you and any others that volunteer their time here.

    Yeah, I have self esteem issues that put me a bit lower than all others in my mind, but on did days I clearly see this. I figure knowing this is at least a minor positive. I suspect adhd lends itself to self esteem issues, as teachers, peers treat you differently, perhaps as broken or a bad egg. This stays with you decades later.

    Self harm, self sabotage, depression, ideation, all of this is not new, it's just the scale that changes. I'm 44, and none of this is new. What's new is the fact that a lifetime has passed without me getting a grip on any of this, despite time, effort, money and intent being thrown at it. The thing that has changed is basically... fatigue, I guess you'd call it.

    Again, I love your advice and your views. They work, they make a difference. Believe me. I've been working on distraction lately, focusing on the usual stressors of work (as crazy as that sounds) and it does offer some reprieve, so thank you.

    why did psychiatry help where psychology could not? I had thought the only difference was the ability to dispense medication but I realise I am likely very far off here

  30. Croix
    Community Champion
    • Outstanding members who have volunteered their time to support others here on the forums
    • Life membership is awarded by beyondblue for providing outstanding peer support to the online community over a period of 3+ years.
    Croix avatar
    11062 posts
    14 June 2021 in reply to M2

    Dear M2

    Life is a work in progress, and you have amassed 44 years of experience that you will use in the next (statistically speaking ) forty-something. Life has not past you by, it has been lived - not ideal in all respects it's true - but lived and learned from. I most definitely use what I've learned in the past to help now -"I've been here before" is a great thing to be a able to think.

    Yes one does get tired, fatigue trying to cope with all you feelings is a very real thing, and the answer to fatigue is of course some rest. That's why I have that corner of the world above the cliffs where nature reminds me I've not seen it all. That's why I suggest distraction, because it's not a constant reminder of effort expended and the unpleasant aspects of the past. A holiday if you will.

    A psychiatrist is firstly a doctor, trained as an MD for 4-6 years, a year in a hospital or simialr practicing for a year, then another 5-6 years training in psychiatry. Clinical psychologists have 8 years training and as far as I'm aware cannot prescribe medications.

    I've found psychiatrists have a more balanced view - though this is just my own impression, and a greater knowledge of a broader range of mental health and bodily conditions (I'm probably going to be corrected here, however I'm just going on my own experience). As a result if financially feasible I'd suggest a psychiatrist over a psychologist. In fact mine has sent me to psychologists for particular therapies they specialized in.

    The down-side is the expense. There is a Medicare safety net that assists once one has spent over a certain threshold on approved treatment during any calendar year.

    Can you think of anything in your mind to go to for a rest, like I have my cliffs?

    Croix

    1 person found this helpful

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