I have lived through many years of being around a Covert Narcissist.

They nourish the vulnerable (including our OLD selves) with their Narcissistic supply. They control their environment with "stress-driving motivational compliance". Stress is crippling, its incredibly unpleasant, both mentally and physically. When they have you, they can reach you wherever and whenever they want.. Just a text! It can bend you like Darth Vader's evil use of the force.

If you want to understand the full psychologically horror of trying to live with/in a dominance hierarchy of a covert narcissist, watch Ex Machina. "Eve" has most hallmarks - manipulative, intelligent, beautiful, powerful, mirroring, uncanny valley/not human. For 95% of the film she's the victim (literally imprisoned) but the last 5min you discover her core is evil. She's not only been using you the whole time , but leaves you for dead with effortless cruelty.

You're exhausted after watching this film, it's non-stop paranoia and anxiety. And she never directly agrees' the victim!

I understand its childhood abuse mental torture - like holding someones head under water..to effect obedience, sick security. A 'false self' is built shielding a fragile, cowering 'true self' core. Decades this early split diverges a highly functional, immaculately crafted public shell which is rewarded by much of what is broken in society. A commensurately tormented 'suffering soul' festers at the core, like the stench of rotten fish.

The psychopath is banished to scour the barren plains of the psyche for the entirety of their existence, their soul like a snarling wolf, addicted to perpetually predating on the weak. Feeding insatiably on the vulnerability and emotional destruction of the innocent lives they can manage to trap around them (Because emotional AB-use literally means it's them that cant function at the rest of us normal humans need to)

They abuse their power to 'twist the fabric of reality', suppress/never deal with hard problems. They can afford to live an avoidance of hard truths and so damn themselves, subconsciously to live and act out their delusion to perpetuity.

My God, Don't go near them and don't agrees them. They are like Chernobyl. Forever Toxic, damaging anyone who goes near them, spewing their insidiously harmful radiation that's entirely invisible - no direct attacks, no evidence, no recourse

Be kind to yourself, come rejoin society, rebuild your being with 'real' humans. We want you not them!

“Twist the fabric of reality” - indeed. Been there…

Hope you’re going ok. Thanks for sharing

Katy

G'day SteveAnon,

Fascinating post there mate. After googling covert narcissism I wondered what traits a person who is opposite to covert narcissism might have.

A person without need for admiration, who has a realistic sense of self-importance, who empathizes with people and forms meaningful relationships easily.

A fair, generous altruistic person.

If we aim for modelling fair generous and altruistic behaviour to the covert narcissist we might help them and ourselves.

Would definitely need a strong sense of oneself to armour up against all those covert attacks, like you say, distance and boundaries would be needed.

Cheers David, agree with most but In my opinion you shouldn't try and help them. For any 'silent' survivors reading this post - you are too weak to try and help them.. its bloody amazing you have pulled yourself out of that hole.

As mentioned I wasn't in a close relationship with one, but for years i documented the really strange social structure and environment - toxic culture essentially. No matter my obvious achievements, its constantly dysfunctional and ultimately I put the wall up.. just to survive in the environment.

We'll thats when the pieces came together..if they can't read you, they can't control you and its a void they can't stand having around. My best strategy was 'acting with honest intent' because it allowed me to operate under subconscious 'heavy fire' from their henchmen, and by god didn't that get them sizzling and spitting with an onslaught of covert attacks.

You see they can't have strong characters around them, thats why they reset the social structure by 'buying new friends' and weak ones they can nourish. Anyone thats been around them for more than 3 years is either toxic/sociopathic themselves or of course incredibly weak and typically a person that doesn't look after their health.

Honesty is truly your shield. And whilst for survival, you of course can't be so honest as to call them out, you can carry yourself with honest intent, in your words and actions to others in a toxic environment. Its super difficult because you callus up and you can't exist in two states of being - 'be your best self' / bare your emotional vulnerability (necessary for a healthy relationship) whist simultaneously hunkered in a defensive pose in constant state of predatory alert. Employ this strategy 'until you get to the next turn-off'.

Honest intent is the only true revenge, because in the end they sabotage their own ultimate aim, they fall into their own snares and traps, paint themselves into a corner, you beat them fair and square but dysfunction prevails.Because they're in power, they'll flat out lie, deny. Again it's why its so exhausting to be around them- years of effort you finally get that chance to kick the goal and they move the goal posts.

If you have a kid(s) with one, that's super duper tough. All I could say is you can't look after the child until you look after yourself. Seek a support group, if separated it could take decades of acting with honest intent, but ultimately your actions could deprogram the child and break the cycle.

Hello SteveAnon...

I survived for 38 years living with a Narcissist man, had 3 children to him..they also survived...

Yes he destroyed my heart and sole...and I’m still trying to cope with the C-PTSD that this marriage has caused me..

My husband passed away 8 years ago....If he didn’t I would still probably be married and living with him....I never hated him..I still don’t..in fact I still love him....and miss him...

What I don’t miss is his narcissistic behaviour....A narcissistic person can also be caring and kind sometimes...

Like depression....you can bouts of feeling good..then you go down quickly when triggered...It’s the same with a narcissist person...even though they live mostly in there narcissistic personality they can be triggered into being kind and gentle....Narcissistic is a mental illness like depression, anxiety..and any other mental problems...

With help, the right help, they can be helped..problem is, most of them don’t see themselves as mentally ill...which is really sad...There has been a number of narcissistic people on these forums reaching out for help because they know that they have the traits....and these people I feel really proud of for trying to get help....

I often refer to my late husband as being cruel, nasty, controlling...because he was 99% of the time...but that 1% is worth fighting for....seeing and interacting with them at that time...

If I knew what he was like before I married him....no I wouldn’t have...I did and made my vows and I kept to them...

Please don’t ever hate anyone, narcissistic behaviour is a mental illness...They weren’t born that way..they were taught to be that way...by who knows..parents, siblings, school mates, school teachers...I don’t think we will ever know....But they are people struggling with their mental health....and if we can help them...to understand that their behaviour is unacceptable..then maybe..just maybe they will recognise it as well....and seek help...never ever give up on another human....because that’s worse then being narcissistic....

My kind thoughts SteveAnon..

Grandy..

Thanks Grandy and but for clarity I posted this thread under 'Suicidal thoughts and self-harm' because charity starts at the home.

Without identifying myself I've suffered through deaths of my closest family members (in separate tragic circumstances) and for what its worth to readers i've been on antidepressants over multiple separate occasions. You can bet I've looked into the abyss and seen nothing staring back at me

I write with dramatic affect because I'm dead serous about the mental health threat they were to me/general public. No one walks around with a shirt saying 'I'm a covert narcissist' so you bet I walked into it blindly and endured years of mental stress because of that 99%.

Its not a friendship contest out there, if someone ruthlessly and viciously undermines me, i'm not going to forgive them until the cows come home. I'm going to get on and raise awareness, now I know their modus operandi and can spot one a mile off.

No the Don't just take my advice - "Befriend people who want the best for you - We are all Being. Just some of us are better Beings. Learn to tell the difference. Some people are beyond help. They are merely exploiting the willingness of good people to help them" and of course the axiom "dont try and change people"

I don't need any well wishings. Life gets harder.. but you get stronger, if you're dead set serious about pulling yourself up. Again my pitch is to speak to the heart of survivors if they find themselves on this forum to understand the problem now they've exited it.

I would compare that to surviving cancer or the Amazon Jungle - emaciated from being sucked dry by emotional vampires, because so much of our identity and value is derived from the relationships with others around us. Clawing your way out beaten, bruised. But you're alive inside.

G'day SteveAnon and Ggrand!

Hatred of injustice is a powerful motivator. What are the early and later warning signs of covert narcissist methods?

We can use our attuned senses if we can aim them accurately. What types of sentences do these CN's use?

Being scratched in the amazon jungle is risky business, infection will set in quick, maybe local knowledge about the local environment can find and apply a cure. I mean, sure don't go to the jungle, but if you have to, be prepared through training and education becoming appropriately strong.

People climb Mount Everest for the challenge under adversity and yep plenty of motivated people haven't survived the climb, so some things aren't survivable, plenty should simply not make the attempt.

I don't hate anyone.. I wouldn't have lasted multiple years with them if I did. But i don't want to solve their problems and if i can enable better awareness for the currently abused, ill channel my energy there.

 

If my words speak to you it's because it's a distillation of the truth, enduring multiple years of stress and confusion. As mentioned, I was not in an intimate relationship with them. I was detached, an 'observer' not survivor. Damage on partner 'survivors' is unfathomable, suicidal.

I know it's evil at the core in the method of predation. They need to constantly read you so as to identify how best to hurt you. They are highly emotionally intelligent individuals. So called 'cold empathy' is effected under the pretense of innocuous/public conversation. Their brain is scanning for vulnerabilities..thinking "I know how I can generally hurt you, but what really hurts you? What are your real buttons i can press, so I can exact that pain passive aggressively so that I'm NEVER exposed, you'll NEVER have any proof and my world can NEVER be turned against me.

We as a community, online or offline, are called to arms by our conscience and our selves.. even by the police, to call out "crimes in plain sight" ('Enslaved' 4Corners)

Evil is incredibly intelligent, masterfully calculated. I'm in awe of its insidious operation.. It's cold, teflon coated biologically wired genius, like watching a mimic octopus. But good is more powerful because I'm sitting here watching them whilst they're unaware I know (Hence I post anonymously). Behind both are the incredibly powerful human brain.

You don't need intelligence and years of stress. You can progress to happiness if you have the courage to face the Truth. Be honest. first with others and if it doesn't work, with yourself.. 'There's something very wrong here, the truth is suppressed, there's an undertone of aggression here'

I'll share notes on my anxiety after I witnessed a swift, merciless, tyrannical, emotional execution effected communistic impunity..

- Entire years build up of malevolence has blow up as a vicious storm in my mind over last week.
- The Stress exploded I feel like I've had a head cold all week. Headache, weakness, aching eyes (cortisol, constant focus), that 'flu' smell (like i've just balled my eyes out crying / runny nose without it being runny) pressure in the sinus and sore/crusty nose.
- Im astonished how my subconscious has boiled over into a full blown anxiety maelstrom with rampant physical symptoms

“The outbreak of the neurosis is not just a matter of chance. As a rule it is most critical. It is usually the moment when a new psychological adjustment, a new adaptation, is demanded" -Carl Jung

Jung is good stuff!

I think we start honesty within ourself first and from there it is easy to be honest with others. I suppose Jung wrote a lot about honesty and truth.

Have you heard of vicarious trauma, SteveAnon? I mention that term because you mention observing years of stress and confusion and being detached.

Thanks David - Not the term exactly, but yes the idea of victim sympathy. On reflection you make a point - my sympathyising could explain the anxiety, again it was an execution - public, domineering, no mercy.

I can't disclose my circumstances, but I had confidential line of conversation with the victim and was aware they were OK/could 'move on'. It was less the victim, more me mortified by the deplorable communistic selling-out of a friend after they'd confided in this flying monkey! It was shocking was how viciously the social structure operated and the power of control via the flying monkeys.

I don't feel victim sympathy for those remaining voluntarily nourished and brainwashed. Not only am i prohibited from attempting to explain to them as flying monkeys, but I don't see their cognition capable of complexity of the structure. Without that their only hope is relying on the moral compass of honestly. They have not done this for many many years, I mentioned in earlier posts this is one reason they are firmly brainwashed.

I agree your point we must first be honest internally, but with ourselves is the easy part. Its incredibly difficult/impossible to be honest about structural problems in these toxic dominance hierarchies.

Back to focus on the survivor. Take responsibility to look after yourself which is foremost being kind to yourself.

Get Clean - first of them (no/lowest contact) then of your addictions. Most of your addictions stem from them - a coping mechanism for stress in their dysfunctional environment.

Get yourself a new stable safe space, you only need 3-6 months of existing in a state of 'living clean' to re-gain your mental strength!

Manage your addictions out. You'll be amazed at the speed of progress, de-power some of the below within a month if you hold yourself hard to truth.

Don't drink to relieve stress - this is feeding addiction 'situational craving'! Replace Friday beers with alcohol free ones, or swap it out for lesser evils - sugar/caffinated drinks instead. Drink only on 'the day of rest'.

Get organized enough each morning to throw avocado, tomato, ham and cheese in a wrap(s) to negate a fast food lunch. Remove the facebook app from your phone and carry around a book again. Remove processed sugars from the pantry and replace desert with brazil nuts and dates. Replace news websites with your own private blog/diary, where all the content is good, relevant & documents your progress.

Also, Investigate 'mirroring' as was to ID NPD

Hoping my experience might help some others...

As someone who is 1 month into leaving a covert-narcissist GF of 5 1/2 years, one thing I have learned having had some distance from her now, is that there were so many red flags at the very start of the relationship. She was charming, charismatic, beautiful and caring with me.

But at the same time, she was rude and mean to other people i.e. staff at the airport, waitresses, checkout attendants etc. Another big red flag is when they are always the victim. Right from the beginning I couldn't help but feel sorry for her that she consistently has such bad luck with people. It wasn't the case at all.

She isn't intrinsically a bad person but I spent 5 1/2 years trying to accommodate her demands, her need for control, while trying to assert my own boundaries in the gentlest way I can.... hoping that eventually she'd realise she needs help. That, or hoping I could somehow save her. It didn't work, my own mental health deteriorated to the point where I had suicidal ideation, so leaving the relationship was my only option.

I don't hate her and I actually forgive her for what she put me through, but I have to accept that she is toxic to me. No amount of beauty, kindness etc. is worth it if it's not sincere. She wrote me a big letter detailing every single nice thing she did to me.... almost like it was some sort of statement of account. Kindness is only kindness if it's sincere, not to be used against someone later.

It took me years to understand what I was dealing with.

I genuinely wish my ex all the happiness in the world and hope she finds the help she needs.

Batticus thank you for adding to the thread and it is your responsibility to look after yourself first, as you would have bravely achieved.