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Forums / Relationship and family issues / My estranged daughter turns 21 today

Topic: My estranged daughter turns 21 today

  1. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    3 August 2021

    Hello beautiful peoples! Hi Em, and Blue 'n Sleepy,

    Hugs straight back at ya Blue! And everyone! SO proud of you Blue, for practicing!

    Aww, thanks for stopping by Sleepy. So nice to see you here. It IS a trajectory of healing! Sometimes I think, I can't post cos things aren't too bad atm- isn't that weird? Sometimes tho, support in good times is just as important as support in the bad times.

    Things are...really, really ok atm! I mean, setting aside the whole daughter getting married without me thing (and even that has found a peaceful place to rest in me, for now).

    My mini breakdown of last week has eased, leaving me wiser about what I can and can't do, esp whilst working and having to cope with unscheduled changes to our routines...and more clear about my need to say no at times....

    H is.....calmer. Happier. We went out for dinner with some friends for his bday, and that was ok. No dramas. I dropped one of the 'banned words' lol by accident , last night, and we recovered. I said- could we pretend that I didn't just say that word that you hate? Anyway, he got over it! And he's still being affectionate and respectful.

    T is happy, and standing up for herself to her friend, who is quite dominant. A great friend, but likes to be boss.

    I like what Em said about connections- I totally agree. Hobbies, sports, kids, all create connections. Sometimes we hit jackpot and make a friend!

    My friendship with my new-ish friend, S, is .....staying steady. slowly slowly....I'm not sure what made me feel vulnerable. Perhaps just entering a deeper level of trust and 'mutual regard'. Em the way I knew I could begin to trust her happened some months ago, when I opened up about our marriage difficulties, and she's been an absolute brick ever since, supporting both of us and being hugely instrumental in things becoming much happier around home. It's nice when you make a real connection, and it just works, on many different levels. I have probably recognised that there's some parts which we don't share, and thats ok.

    Sleepy I'm up north NSW, so lockdowns don't really affect us, except for a recent visitor case which, combined with Sydney's sitch, put everyone on high alert and affected our work. But the absence of Sydneysiders is really noticeable, for the tourism related businesses.

    Anyhow, for now shall just keep keeping on. Reading, working, gardening. A little holiday from drama!

    Cheers,

    J*

    3 people found this helpful
  2. Blue's Clues
    Blue's Clues avatar
    2199 posts
    4 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J* (and everyone),

    Thanks. I do seesaw a bit with whether or not I want to practice, definitely periods of detachment follow any moments of open affection. Work in progress, I guess.

    I'm going to echo the idea of support being equally valuable in good times. I know the sayings about fair-weather friends, but the opposite can also be true, those who are there just for drama. I'm not sure that's necessarily better. Those who will share the hard times and also celebrate with you or just accompany you in peace are the ones to hang onto.

    I'm glad you're having a period without drama, that your struggles of the previous week are easing. You've done some hard work, unravelling the whys of how you were feeling, and working on a way forward.

    I genuinely hope this new friendship continues as it has started, and that you can just enjoy the friendship without questioning it too much.

    Blue.

    1 person found this helpful
  3. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    6 August 2021 in reply to Blue's Clues

    Aww! Blue!
    You’re so absolutely spot on, and have expressed it so beautifully, both about friends who are just there for the drama, and about enjoying this friendship without questioning it too much.
    I agree, this is what I need to do, enjoy my kooky friend without stressing about if something I have said will upset her!!! Etc etc etc

    i hope and pray that if I do say something odd/ off, that she will talk about it with me and not give up immediately. My weird family has def given me the expectation that I am gona say something or do something which will warrant either attack or shut down.
    Luckily, she’s a fairy, not a monster, with a good sense of humour.
    Peaceful times at home ended last night, with a bang! But we seem to be ploughing our way thru in a new and different way, which is positive.
    Work has been tiring this week, but now it’s Friday! Yay! I know Fridays aren’t always your weekend Blue, but they are for me, and I’ve never appreciated them so much!

    How are you doing?
    I shall pop in on your thread and see.....

    Hugs! (Hope you keep practicing, but only with trustworthy folk!)

    cheers,

    J*

    2 people found this helpful
  4. Blue's Clues
    Blue's Clues avatar
    2199 posts
    12 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J* & all,

    Glad what I said made sense to you. How are you going with the friendship, and your worries surrounding it? I can certainly understand how those insecurities arise in the wake of how your family has behaved. On average I think it takes something fairly significant to make people end a friendship, you should be okay with the odd misplaced word. Sounds like this new friend is pretty understanding and even fun.

    Sorry to hear there was more drama at home. Moving forward from that in a new way is good though, hopefully a precursor to lessening the periodic explosions overall. Fingers crossed for you.

    I hear ya, we may not have our week-ends at the same time, but they are still welcome. I do have this actual week-end off, though - I work every second one, and that's okay. Week-end pay rates are still pretty decent for now (govt. is slowly whittling that away).

    I'm doing okay. Was in a bit of a bad place when you wrote that post, but have come good since. This week has been mostly positive, with the help of a warm day or two.

    Hugs to you (and EM). Still practicing, with the right people.

    Blue.

    2 people found this helpful
  5. Sleepy21
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    Sleepy21 avatar
    4085 posts
    12 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    hello J! Hi Blue :)

    Yay friday tomorrow J, thts good news for ur work schedule, if i read correctly? how was ur week?

    i'm sending good vibes to you in this cold and dreary winter.

    how was work been going? it sounds like u enjoy it

    i've been a bit flat today, really annoyed that my MH team stuffed me around on something, mistrusting feelings arising in me. Blerg. Want so badly to trust and rely on others.

    Hope ur enjoying some nature and creativity, such a soothing balm in these wild n' weird times. much love.

    3 people found this helpful
  6. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    14 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*, hi Blue and Sleepy and everyone reading

    How are you doing everyone?

    J* It's nice to read you and H were working through some stuff in a different way and it was more positive lol. Well done you peeps! Now that was about a week ago and it's late Fri night again. Hoping things are good xxxx.

    Hugs to everyone lol, GROUP hug Blue! Come in here lol.

    I read about your excited happiness making a new friend. That's so awesome. Love that.

    It's pretty normal to be feeling a little of "hope I don't stuff this up". To me it just shows how you already VALUE this person and this relationship, it's so sweet. You're pretty awesome J* she'd be so lucky to have you as a friend. That goes for you too Blue and Sleepy.

    Not sure if anyone else is reading, group hug for you too lol.

    Don't you think that meeting someone new as in a friend and / or potential partner, we may feel a myriad of different ways?
    Like, sometimes it's WAY obvious that we feel more strongly than the other person.
    Then other times it's clear that THEY feel more strongly towards us?

    Other times it's like a same same?

    I'm not bragging AT ALL when I say that some of my friends I've had for well over 40y, some over 50y and more... wow when I think THAT, I can't believe it myself. When I SAY it to them they say No, are you sure? Lol we all can't acknowledge our AGE.

    But these friendships have not been sturdy nor strong this entire time, no way.
    They are like looking through a caleidoscope (spelling? lol)... they CHANGE.

    Some we had NC for years in periods. Falling out. Issues with distance.
    Coming back in then stretching back out.

    To me the main ingredient that made these long lasting friendships so worthy, so deep, so understanding was EMPATHY.
    The less empathy either party had for the other during rough times, the less chance of it's survival.

    The MORE understanding and empathy from either person, the better the chances of a strong friendship - for us anyway.

    We've now weathered SO much in our long lives. Divorce for almost all. Loss of a partner for some. Now loss of parents. And far worse if we can even equate it. It's been so sad.

    Enduring this pandemic "together" with ALL our differing viewpoints is interesting indeed.
    Only now am I realising a third ingredient - RESPECT.
    Those who simply respect the other's views, even being on opposite sides completely lol, are the friendships that will survive this too.

    Nice values hey?

    Love EMxxxx

    3 people found this helpful
  7. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    14 August 2021 in reply to Blue's Clues

    Hey Blue,

    Yay, if I read it right, you're enjoying a true weekend off! I hope its an enjoyable one for you Blue, and you can really relax, as well as getting some of that stuff done that I know always feels so good when it's done...

    I'm glad that you're in a bit of a better place hey. So hard to ride out those tough times, and to trust that okay times will roll around, esp with all the challenges you're facing Blue. You're an amazing person tho, and if anyone can do it, you can. I know you encourage me so much here at BB.

    Hmm, H and I are in a kinda weird space atm. I don't think he's aware, but....he had a 'moment' with me a few nights ago and hasn't done anything about repairing the damage. It's the same old stuff, his trust issues, something I said triggering him, and me just feeling all the disappointment and anger and...Hurt, really, that he cannot accept that this is me, not the product of someone else's conversations or influence. So dumb. A little word like "YUM" and dinner is spoilt.

    Anyway, the kicker being that he hasn't attempted to talk about it, and as I finally saw the writing on the wall, really clearly, and saw our paths diverge, I couldn't be bothered talking to him either. there doesn't seem any point, when we're just going to do this again. He doesn't see a problem with his behaviour, and I don't see much in our marriage thats real and worth fighting for, in an emotional/spiritual sense.

    I seem to be in a place of let go, with him, and my foo family.

    It's not that it's an awful marriage to be in, it's just lacking a certain something, and I know that when the time is right, and I can move on, with the least possible disruption to our lives, then I will.

    That sounds very heartless and callous doesn't it. Hmmm. I guess I can't cope with any more drama. It's all leached out of me. I'm going thru the motions, and for me, thats a very weird place to be. I get so passionate about everything. I just can't be bothered anymore. It's as if I've realised that I'm just trying to change him, and get him to become someone he's not. As well as he doesn't accept who I am. I'm not convinced that 'God' (whomever I perceive her to be, lol) wants me to be in this kind of relationship, beyond the purposes of nurturing our daughters growth while she needs us.

    Anyhow, we're all a Work In Progress, and I guess I have to wait and see how it all plays out.

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  8. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    14 August 2021 in reply to Sleepy21

    Hi Sleepy!

    Hey, how have you been? I've loved reading about your art escapades- thats so awesome. Confirmation of heaps of convos I've been a part of recently about art and MH, the arts, more broadly. Perhaps we shall come out of this covid period with a greater appreciation of the arts and fund it appropriately!! It is the sign of an evolved society! I shall chat more on your thread, but I love my sketch books, which I get from the newsagency, they have a black cover and come in heaps of sizes. The little A5 ones are great for the shoulder bag, the A2 is perfect for scenery sketches or free drawing.

    Hey, it sounds like you've had your trust trampled a bit- not surprising youre feeling a bit flat.

    Something someone said once to me- trust is something that we ought to give with discretion. She said we shouldn't trust anyone completely, but rather, learn with what we can trust ppl, and what they can't be trusted with. Eg, I have learnt with one DR that I can trust him to provide me with the basic, medical info that I need to make a good decision. I can't trust him to give me an alternative viewpoint, he's very straight. So I get the basics, and work it out from there. Sometimes thats useful. Does that make sense?

    So, maybe with your professionals, you could work out what they're good at, and what you CAN trust them with. And then maybe you won't feel so let down and disappointed when they can't do some stuff.

    I guess, at the end of the day, we need to learn to trust in ourselves.

    My experience is, tho, that my past experiences have damaged my self trust, which led to misplaced trust in others.

    Does that ring true for you Sleepy?

    I hope that you can move on from the hurt feelings you're having now, and find your way to a place of relying and trsuting in Sleepy. You're the expert in your life! No-one else.

    Love,

    J*

    PS guess what? I spoke too soon. All of NSW is in lockdown now, so we're joinging the chaos!!! Not sure what it will do for my work, will have to wait and see. I DO enjoy my work btw Sleepy! Heaps of 'self-doubt' moments, but maybe thats me growing and learning in this new way. It's been a long time since I've been in consistent paid work.

    Take care,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  9. Sleepy21
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    Sleepy21 avatar
    4085 posts
    14 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    hey J -

    nice to read all that's been going on, how ur daughter is handling her friendship and how ur doing and feeling. thank u for sharing and updating us all, its great to talk to u here, always.

    I resonate with naturally all u said about not trusting anyone 100 percent, giving away trust when its evident tht the person is able to be worthy of it. Yes, it definitely makes sense wht you're sayign!! so sorry that's terrible that covid is now affecting your areas, i was so happy to read you guys can move around a bit freely. sounds so hard in NSW.. snding big hugs.

    our cases arent really going down so i dont know if we will be able to exit lockdown as hoped for mid next week, its a bit endless atm.

    I feel a bit sad my psych is away and i'm pushing through these muddy waters. He's been regular, at least, a regular check in. But thats okay, Ill keep finding other ways to connect. Gratefl for this space. Hope ur havng an okay weekend... and will see if I spot similar art books!

    my fave medium is the watercolors, i think, the pencils which you add water too, what do u lik to use?? xx

    1 person found this helpful
  10. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    15 August 2021 in reply to ecomama

    Hi Em,

    LOVE the values- Yes! Empathy, understanding, respect- so important!!

    Mama, it doesn't surprise me that you've got those long lasting friendships! You're one of those ppl that others want to keep in their lives! I've one friendship thats weathered many storms, and I treasure it. Having that friend reassures me, in the midst of all else, that I'm ok!! I guess thats what friends can do. But then the opposite is also true, and then it's particularly hard.

    Thankyou for those beautiful words tho- gosh I was almost going to gloss over that, and ignore the fact that YOU value me and consider me worth having as a friend!! Nope, I'm going to breathe that in, and let it recharge my old tired batteries, which get so worn out whenever I dwell on my stupid family relations.

    A friend/long term acquaintance- was asking me about things on weekend, and it touched a deep nerve. I ended up asking her if we could please stop talking about it. Damage done tho, it's been haunting me a bit. Trying to be fair and impartial, and work out whats my responsibility in all this, and what belongs to others.

    Actually, what I've ended up doing is buying presents!! Is that weird?? For my d, and my sister. Maybe it's a sign of my internal resolve to love, and not become bitter about their behaviour. I'll keep them for Christmas, but it feels nice to be able to buy them something I'm fairly certain they'll like. Not having a clue what to get d for her wedding present has been bothering me. I haven't even seen inside her house, so have no idea what colours, what style.....

    Oh, me and friends! I start out all enthusiastic, and then I need time and space and so retreat into my shell, work, homelife. Then I worry that I'm not being available enough, but know that I have to have balance.... It's not easy IMO. I think having a mother who was fairly unsociable doesn't set me up well to be comfortable with others. I just thank god when they can tolerate my peculiarities!!

    The lockdown going regional has thrown us all into chaos. I'm hoping I get some home time out of it tho. I spent hours in my garden today, and finished a batch of marmalade. T is sick with a cold, so I'm happy she gets to stay home without undergoing a covid test! Poor darling, she's got the sniffles and dribbles....

    Hope you're all staying well Em, and work is easing up. I haven't been able to catch up with your thread much, but I will.

    Love

    J*

    2 people found this helpful
  11. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    17 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*

    You ARE valued as a friend by me, of course you are! AND if you hadn't noticed lol by many others here too!

    My thread is too thick atm. Permission to avoid lol.

    I admire your ability to retreat. This looks like self-care to me and I need more models of this! lol.
    Oh I admire stacks about you.

    I actually think I still have those friends, some since 3yo, because I'm authentic with them.
    Real, hate bs, pretense. With the REALLY good ones, we can let our guards down and bring almost anything up. Even when we're on OPPOSITE sides of the fence!
    And that to me is a sign of a true friend. I tell them that too at the time... then we get all warm and fuzzy together lol.
    NOW we say I LOVE YOU at the end of each call and text, so I can't believe we're getting even closer as we age.

    You can put ppl in concentric circles. I was taught this at 17yo when I was sent on a Leadership Course (lol!).
    YOU in the centre & ppl you TRUST in the first ring then going out, measured by the "trust" you have in them.

    I don't trust any one 100% because I outright refuse to.
    I won't put THAT high an expectation on any one person.
    We're not perfect & can't be expected to rise to all occasions 100% of the time.
    No one has, neither have I and that's OKAY.
    That's clear with my friends. So it gives us a set of very loose and understanding expectations / boundaries.

    That friend who offended you, appeared to trigger you?
    Now I wait 3-4 days before I try to work stuff out (C-PTSD is indeed complex).

    Seriously, sometimes I've not brought THAT stuff up for years in that friendship.
    Then ... over time... an opportunity presents itself where I can say "Hmmm do you remember when you said that to me?" and we've hit a ZPD. Healing past hurt and the other person GETTING it first hand. Perfect resolution lol which takes patience.
    I don't intend to bare a grudge or anything, it's just weird how this happens over and over and over again across the long term.
    Something like we're all driving our own Karma.

    I LOVE that you're buying presents. THIS is J*.
    If that is being consistently and persistently YOU? Then that's exactly what you can do with your own blessing lol. Ours too, GO FOR IT.
    (Showing mercy?).
    Expressing your LOVE.

    Now I can open my mother's birthday present to me, maybe tomorrow in Wellbeing Wednesday, after I walk the dog shhh don't tell him lol.
    I need some self-care, well alot, beforehand.

    J* INTUIT what to buy.
    You'll be spot on.

    Love EMxxxx

    2 people found this helpful
  12. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    18 August 2021 in reply to ecomama

    Hey Em,

    permission granted..

    Thankyou.Tears of...just that you're such a darned good friend! Thankyou!!!

    Yes, y'know when you first wrote that on my thread, about being authentically myself, I remember feeling really confused. I guess, so many ppl telling me what I should do, trying to fix this for me, it felt like everything I did was wrong and someone else would do it much better...

    Well, someone else might, but there's no-one else who is mum to my kid, so I guess I'm gona just have to suck it up and continue on!

    You know what helped me choose something? The fact that, I may not know what dress size she is anymore, or what colours she likes in her house, or what she owns now, but I know her shoe size! She is my daughter, and I know the size of her feet, and hands, and her ears, and...omg I'm balling my eyes out here!

    Oh my friend opened these flood gates, dammit! Maybe one day I will chat about it with her-well it's more than a chat! But I don't mind really. It's very me to want to go there with what I'm feeling about stuff. And I'm so grateful to be in LD and not have as much on my plate, or else I wouldn't cope...

    Oh gosh I admire your ability to be out there! Retreat I can do, easily. I guess it's my way of self soothing. But bad stuff tends to happen when I get wild...or even outspoken...hmmm...might unpack that one some other time! I know I have begun feeling very wary about fun, not sure if thats just about drinking type fun tho, or something else. Sorry not making much sense buuut.....grew up in very strict teetotaller family so there's a link there....

    So much to integrate atm!

    I LOVE the picture of you and your friends, mellowing and growing closer as the years roll on by....It's nice how, when ppl are in your life for years, you go in and out of closeness. Like this friend who opened up that old scab, she and I were much closer when our babies were small, and haven't had much to do with each other for several years. And then suddeny, over two soccer matches (spectating, not playing lol) we get that old appreciation for each other. We've both changed, but she's still lovely, and it's just nice.

    Have you opened your mums present yet Em? I'm hoping it was something nice, something that touched your heart....am I hoping for too much? I think I understand that your mum is pretty sick, so maybe I am.

    Love,

    J*

    2 people found this helpful
  13. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    20 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Dear J* I don't think you're sick. Hugs!

    We're close friends, yet on opposite sides of the mother / daughter fence.

    There's a tentativeness for each of us to bring that out on the table.
    We can, any time.
    But I can only imagine it would be very uncomfortable for you.

    I can FEEL your hurt & it's so sad for me knowing you're hurting so much. xxxx

    It wasn't that my mum was / is sick that forced NC. (She's been unwell since she was 3yo. My g/mother noted the moment to me a long time ago but never used the term "unwell" or such).

    It was having to call the police on her - that violent story that forced NC.

    It wasn't a flippant "oh I'm sick of this or that" - no way.

    As parents we DO do the best we can. I know you HAVE done the best you can & I can see you will never give up on estranged daughter, nor should you either. SHOES it is. xxxx

    My mother was so extremely challenged with her MIs that psych hospital staff told her never to have children.
    The stressors from then on in her life, would've challenged even the most Mentally Healthy person.

    No, haven't opened mum's present. Hold on... I'll go get it & do it WITH YOU.
    I'll need an idea of another person "co-regulating" me as I do it. Brb.
    Ok my cat helped by jumping up from his sleep to cuddle me.

    The card has a lonely girl with long hair (me no doubt) sitting under a bare tree, burnt orange colours.
    Message I can read this time;"BE WELL now on your birthday and all throughout all the year". She included a Wot's on for the Women's Health Centre, newspaper & mag articles on Feng Shui and esoteric info.

    The present:
    ~ a fluro green ruler
    ~ a Newspaper for Aborginal people
    ~ 2 white face washers
    ~ a white towel.

    Done now.

    J* DOCS became involved back then bec of the police. I would've lost my children had I not gone TOTAL NC.
    It was very serious & remains so.

    I seldom ever allow anyone else to influence important decisions, a mistake some times. Having Authorities involved gave me no other choice.

    I still have children under 18yo, so same rules go.

    I won't embark on reconciliation, until she's in a Nursing home, then still may not.
    Needing Staff to intervene should she escalate is a sitch I don't want for them. Or her.
    We'd actually need a "Risk Assessment".

    Being "like" my dad "all kind and won't argue" is something that triggers her. Amongst a billion other things about me. It's like she literally hates me.
    My C says no to that.

    Who knows.

    Love always, your friend
    EMxxxx

    2 people found this helpful
  14. Blue's Clues
    Blue's Clues avatar
    2199 posts
    20 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J* (waves to EM & Sleepy),

    Might as well run with that group hug vibe that's going around. Practice makes perfect, right? (*hugs*)

    Yep, I had last week-end off (sorry, been longer than I thought in getting back to the forums). The weather was fantastic, we got the D&D group to do the game outside, and got out in the garden the following day.

    I'm definitely in a better space than I have been (I do think weather has some bearing on my ups and downs). Thankfully I do know the hard times will pass, I just keep working toward better, even if I don't feel like it's doing much at the time. Thank you for your confidence in me. :)

    I understand what you're saying about the space you're in with H. Been there a few times. I think there's a point where you've invested so much and worked so hard and you see the other person just isn't aware, or isn't trying, or in some cases is actively making things worse. Then you hit a wall, and the things you were feeling about it, all the drive to try and fix it, just disappears. At least, that's what I experienced with the last three relationships. It sounds like you're in that same sort of zone.

    You said: "It's not that it's an awful marriage to be in, it's just lacking a certain something". From the things you've said, it's more than that. It doesn't have to be all-out abusive to be harmful - neglect and that lack of understanding and effort from a partner can be devastating, especially over a long period of time. You've see-sawed for a long time, struggling with the mistrust and back to trying and hoping, then back again. That can be really hard to live with.

    What you're saying doesn't sound heartless and callous to me. It sounds like the end result of putting too much of your heart into something that isn't feeding anything much back into it, both in your marriage and your family. It's not for me to say stay or go, but I will say I understand the place you're in.

    Re the discussion ongoing about friendship - I'd like to add that I value your friendship, too. You have been considerate and consistent in sharing the highs and lows, and I greatly appreciate that.

    Kind thoughts,

    Blue.

    PS EM, brave of you opening the gift from your mother. Hope you're holding up okay now you've done it.

    3 people found this helpful
  15. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    20 August 2021

    Hi Em,

    That was lovely of you, to open the present from your mum with me. It's a strange one! Bit of a let down really. I can see I was aiming a bit high, to hope it had some kind of heart message in there.

    So. You're mum's not big on self restraint huh? Thats how I interpret "all kind and won't argue". Your dad must have worked hard to balance her out. Or else been emotionally distant, like my dad...?

    Em, you don't need to justify your NC with me. My own sitch is complex, and yes it hurts and all that (YOU know!) But I never compare. And if anything, knowing you has helped me to respect my d's decsion even more, becos I can be more at peace with her doing what she needs to do, for herself. Even if it hurts like hell. After all, isn't that what being a mother is all about? Doing whats best for your kids? Respecting their right to make choices. Thats my take on it. Not that it's how I was mothered, of course ;)

    I wasn't saying I was sick, rather that I thought I may have been hoping for too much becos your mum is sick and maybe not able to give a heartfelt gift. Sorry, I was being a bit lazy with words and didn't express myself well.

    Anyway, seems my second thought was spot on. She's not able to give a lovely, heart warming gift. What a pity for her. I hope the towels are clean and nice anyway.

    My d's present (for her) arrived in the mail today. OMG they are sooo lovely! They are on my present shelf, and will be there to wrap at Christmas time. Buying these for her, at a time when I could afford it, sparks joy in me.

    Works has become annoyingly small (annoying becos it's still there, a couple hours a day) so no more extravagances for awhile.

    Cheers,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  16. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    20 August 2021 in reply to Blue's Clues

    Hey Blue,

    Hugs!!! Yep, may as well jump on the bandwagon! (Wherever that saying comes from! before my time I'm sure!)

    Not that I'm doing many of those in person. Covid crazy around here. People going OFF on FB, spouting a whole lot of nonsense. We haven't got any local cases but ppl still want to be covid nazis. Em it sounds a bit horrific down there- helicopters and sirens...?! I feel like you're possibly entering a war zone just driving out your street!

    Your weekend sounds lovely Blue!! D&D- is that what I think it is? I used to roleplay in my younger years. Was part of an SCA group too- well my BF was but I totally dug the costumes lol. And the belt knife ;) Medievalist reenactment group, for the uninformed lol.

    Thankyou for your thoughtful feedback re H. So much is spot on. And funnily enough (not really, you know how it goes...) he's making bids for attention,and really trying...washing up! Controlling his outbursts. I'm watching. From behind my suit of armour. I find myself hoping for a future, then decide, the future is what I make it! I don't HAVE to 'succeed' in this.... I can live a different life, anytime I choose. Well, sort of.

    Yep, the drive to fix it is disappearing, fast. Of course, this could end up being a blessing, if I relax so much that I'm not asking him to change. It could lead to more acceptance...

    Having to face it that I just don't really like the person he is, and the stuff he says, and his viewpoint on so many things. I don't think I'd hang out with him if I wasn't married to him. Unless he had a lovely wife lol! So if I stop trying to change him, he's going to relax, for sure. It won't save the marriage, but it might make things more peaceful.

    Thanks for recognising and reminding me that it has been an incredibly taxing see saw-ing; hoping, and choosing to trust, and getting that trust abused, again and again. Letting myself get close, only to regret it. Even last night, was feeling a bit guilty about not investing anymore. This convo reminds me that I have, invested. Hoped. Tried. It's ok to let go. Let him fight for it/us if he wants it.

    Thanks for understanding.

    And thanks for valueing our friendship. Me. It's very special, as you are very special.

    I love our connection here💚

    Cheers!

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  17. ecomama
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    21 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*, xxxx

    Re: mother's present to me.
    There was "a message" to me all right! She's a very cruel & twisted human as my C put in other words "you had an extremely physically and psychologically abusive mother, who was cruel in every way".
    More things in the "gift" like "look at you, you're a lonely girl under a bare tree" & 'look aren't I a wonderful mother wrapping this gift for you up in new paper" & "I'm finally deciding to pretend to forgive you, you horrid ungrateful child (one of her faves since I was old enough to remember) because I KNOW you would have missed my gifts these past many years" and no I didn't. Not one bit in fact.
    Not getting anything from her was a great relief.

    If any of my children get any thing from her, they leave it for me to sort through.
    Usually she has major attempts at "divide and conquer", playing favourites & all that caper she tried our whole lives to do with me & my brother.
    She's possessed with evil.

    As far as I can remember, the last gift I received from her was c15y ago. A macadamia tree seedling.

    So her message is very clear this time.
    She's expressing PITY & condescension, as per.
    Completely unnecessary.

    The things are all being given away. Not even keeping the ruler! the card is horrible. I took a photo of it in it's entirety and sent the pics to BF, he gasped. Said "was that what you expected?" & "WHO would even BUY a card like that?" & "it all has a weird vibe about it".
    I expect nothing but peace but never get it.

    I know for sure that your sitch is nothing like "ours".

    I DO know that Alexa almost did what your d did over the many years of Courts.
    It was very cruel to me.
    She was influenced very heavily by her ex and his family AND demon and it's family.

    She became so confused that she just gave in on it all.
    Went NC with me so many times. This is probably closer to your sitch than the other.

    As for my sperm donor ahem "father", a true Wolf in Sheep's clothing. Emotionally VOID except for insults to himself. We could've starved for all he cared. He had ZERO regard for us whatsoever.

    My compliance in her yelling at me was bec of fear.
    I agreed bec of the violent reaction if I didn't do so enthusiastically.

    My conclusion: they were each terribly immature, very abusive, toxic parents. Who instead of looking at their OWN decision to "mate" & produce me, used me as a scapegoat for their bad choices.

    Alexa loved my presents during her NC, she told me later. Hugs!

    Love EMxxxx

    3 people found this helpful
  18. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    21 August 2021 in reply to ecomama

    Oh Em,

    I'm truly sorry. No wonder you have so much strength and wisdom for difficult situations.

    I'm glad to hear that Alexa liked your presents during her NC. Apparently some of mine have been received with pleasure also, but one never really knows. Our family teaches great appearances, with hate/despisement underlying. But as long as we can all sit down to Christmas lunch!

    Fathers Day coming up. I'm not looking fwd.

    Hi Sleepy, if you're reading along. Hope you're doing ok, and we're thinking of you.

    Love,

    J*

    2 people found this helpful
  19. Blue's Clues
    Blue's Clues avatar
    2199 posts
    26 August 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J* (waves to EM & Sleepy),

    Hug bandwagon it is, haha. Dunno where that phrase comes from. May look it up some time. Not today, very tired. Re covid, unfortunately people can get a bit extreme when they're scared. I understand vigilance, it's certainly necessary for me, but there are ways and ways of going about it.

    It was a great week-end. Yup, Dungeons & Dragons, Blue is a big ol' nerd. XD I like the sound of the SCA group, I wasn't previously familiar with it, though certainly know of a lot of similar things. I haven't done any LARPing, but the idea is fun - have done a bit of Cosplay (anime costumes), unfortunately my friends are too pov and introverted for costume parties and stuff like Comicon hits on triggers now so I don't get to do that any more. Pity.

    No problem, re feedback. If anyone gets where you're at right now, it's me. Yes, I know the behaviours you're observing in H now, too. When I told my ex I wanted out, he was doing stuff too, and making all sorts of promises. Heard too many of those over the years, they didn't mean anything from someone who never kept them. I realised the things he was doing that I'd been wanting for so long didn't mean anything either. I had gone without so long I didn't want them any more. He pushed me too far, and there was nothing left for him. I don't know if you're quite as far down that track as I was, it sounds like you're pretty close if not there. Whatever happens from here, I'm around to listen and support.

    You absolutely have invested so much and worked hard for this marriage. Please give yourself credit for that. If you have it in you to do more, more power to you. If you need to let go, that is okay too. You have the power to make of life what you need it to be.

    It is a great connection we have here. A safe and respectful place I value greatly. :)

    Blue.

    2 people found this helpful
  20. jennyblue1445
    jennyblue1445 avatar
    1 posts
    2 September 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hi

    I understand. I lost one my daughters for over 10 years in a similar way. I still have little to no contact with her children, but in the last 3 years we have begun to forge a new relationship that is helping heal much of the hurt. Don't give into despair. Sending lots of love.

    4 people found this helpful
  21. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    3 September 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J* and waves to Blue, Sleepy and a BIG warm welcome to jennyblue1445 - cute name! lol. I hope you find the forums a safe space to blurt it all out! Welcome again and I'm so sorry you've experienced same, but heartened to hear there's some healing taking place.

    That's just what J* needs to hear. There's HOPE.

    Hey J*, Yeah Father's Day now... always some time we need to put our sweet facade on and just PERFORM to keep the peace.

    I think of you all throughout the week, especially when I'm in my garden.

    I esp think of you on Fridays and Saturdays J*. How's that going?

    Sometimes it seems like life is just one big ride and we have to hold on for it!
    Like a roller coaster sometimes and others like on a Gondola in Venice (with pleasant smells tho lol).

    Then everything in between I'm sure.

    Thankyou for your understanding J*.
    I really hate to say it but more and more memories came through this week and they bowled me over big time.
    Not in my classic previous C-PTSD modes thank God but I just needed to sleep. So sleep a lot I did.

    I doubt it was anything in particular that caused this, more a combination of things making the perfect storm or eye of the storm for the memories to flow down.

    Remember how we talked of Trajectories earlier?
    As far as Trajectories go, there was a far greater chance (if they have their stats even close) for me to become just like my parents, rather than forge a path far different to either of them.

    Funny thing is I DID choose some things incidentally JUST like them.
    They were both extremely career focused. I am too.

    They just neglected the most important people in their lives - their own children.
    I don't really blame my mother - she's always been very mentally ill. I think she did the best she could a lot of the time.
    my father - difft kettle of stinky fish lol.

    Me? I just do my best.
    Struggle time atm.
    Plodding through with big naps!

    Love you all lots, "bandwagon hugs"? SURE! Why not... hop on the bandwagon for a hug too jennyblue.
    Talk soon
    Love EMxxxx

    1 person found this helpful
  22. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    17 September 2021

    Hiya beautiful ppl,

    hi esp to Jenny blue- welcome! and thankyou for your encouragement. 10 yrs is a long time! And very sad that you have little contact with her children. I hope that time will heal those relationships as well. So lovely to read that you and your d are finding each other again. Feel free to talk more about that if you want.... it must be tricky at times!

    em, that was lovely to read that you are getting some good naps in. Sometimes that is the most healing place to be! Can also be a sign of depression settling in, but I’m sure you’re aware.

    Healing is a journey hey, not a destination.
    We want to ‘get there’ but it’s here, always here, now, the best we can.

    Blue it’s a fine line sometimes! Wobbly wobbly progress! But today is positive. Good honest talking. Recently things have been much more peaceful too, communication better. We’ve discovered a common purpose again I think which may help to overcome difficulties.
    how are you going? Any progress on the garden? I’ll check in on other threads....

    ive just had a bath, and feeling very floppy, but it’s so nice to touch base with you guys again!
    Big Love!
    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  23. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    19 September 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*

    Great news!

    How's your Cubby going? Sounds exciting and such a lovely project to work on.

    I'm only doing a little work here and there on Mama's Cubby atm. Kinda waiting until "things open up again" so I can get help to bring a massive work bench off the balcony and turn it on it's side to get it in my Cubby.
    Have to empty out the massive heavy drawers first - discovery time there lol.

    Then to order and organise it all.
    I'm saving those little cutlery packs made of wood that my kids get with their delivery food lol.
    Only using clean, new ones of course, but thought they'd make great little labels in my seedling trays.
    Doing stuff like that.

    I love being organised! "Getting there" in more ways than one lol.

    My sons are sporadically spending time organising downstairs so that we can begin building down there.
    turning it into many bedrooms for the boys to live down there all together. Less room for a Kitchette than we'd like, but a loungeroom is planned.
    Have to move the piano OUT lol.
    Have to move a huge leather lounge IN.

    Major pain - waiting for more muscle to help with these heavy chores.

    Hope things are calm and happy for you J*!

    Love EMxxxx

    1 person found this helpful
  24. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    21 September 2021 in reply to ecomama

    Hey Em,

    Lol! The cubby! It's kinda gotten shunted to the back of the list, but I did resurrect my old hammock, and fixed it, ready to take camping (which didn't happen, never mind) and hung it in the mango tree....so lovely! Now that I'm not camping I may get my young friend and his sibs over and we can work on it...tho tbh I have to be prepared! It's very taxing keeping up with them all! Also we may be heading twds LD again- perhaps one last hurrah before the state opens up- thank god!

    To be perfectly honest, I don't think I'll go back to how I was before- it feels very strange to be socialising and talking to others. And I love having more time for my garden and projects. Maybe I'll stay introverted and antisocial??? Funny tho cos two weeks into LD recently and I couldn't wait to have a party!

    It's tough on the kids tho. T seems a bit changed by it all.

    So, is your cubby the shed in the garden you mentuioned awhile back? It must be bigger than I pictured!

    Being outside is so nice tho isn't it. Thats what putting my hammock up reminded me. And why I love going camping. Otherwise it seems like my jobs keep me indoors. And this darned computer, I was looking fwd to going off line for a bit. Ah well. It can wait! We have a plan to take a small tent down to the beach near our house and camp out even if just o/nite. Its not far enough away to feel like real camping, but it will be exciting nonetheless.

    It's great to hear the boys are getting involved in the house rearranging- so much more energy when it's not just you!

    Sometimes I think thats the trick- finding the right energy and aligning with it, then everything seems to flow- even if it doesn't go perfectly to plan!

    Love,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  25. ecomama
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    23 September 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*

    Perhaps your Cubby is becoming a long term project and that's all okay if you're okay with it of course!

    I saw how your garden is coming along and you're able to eat lots from it which is fun.

    I hear you about camping ventures, sad thing in a way. Bringing the camping feeling into our garden or very local areas is fun though and I can see you doing that. Good one.

    I also hear you about realising you may not go back to the way you were before LD. Not much has changed in my life because of LD which is sad in many ways. My role as a mother to many is what my life basically is and they'll be gone one day so I enjoy every moment I can with them.
    IF they ever leave lol!

    The boys and I have planned the entire redesign of downstairs and it's BIG!
    Not sure how I'll pull this off financially but the plans are there lol.

    Yeah my Mama's Cubby (the old chook shed) is pretty big. Maybe 6m x 5m? Unsure. No solid walls but has the water tank on one side which is AWESOME and gives some privacy from the REALLY nosy neighbours grrr.
    Still puzzling over the flooring. Spiders being the biggest concern.

    I think (I HOPE!) I have enough money saved for the new fence. Need to clear more away from the fence line though. My land is SO long and I get focussed on specific areas away from that fence line, so I get distracted by more those more exciting areas lol.

    Also the inside rooms in my home. Still working on changing things inside too so it's a lot.
    AND a great excuse in my mind to become more reclusive lol.

    I used to be a social butterfly but not any more.

    Love you lots!
    Hope things are going well for you?

    Love EMxxxx

    2 people found this helpful
  26. Blue's Clues
    Blue's Clues avatar
    2199 posts
    23 September 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*,

    Sorry I've been so absent, as I said to EM on her thread, I hit big social burnout and kinda lost a few weeks in fog, there. I've had one eye on the forums but haven't quite managed the energy to post in ages.

    Glad to hear things have been relatively peaceful with your husband, and some better communication happening. Sorry to see your camping trip didn't happen. Sounds like it's brought about some positive thinking and the hammock in the mango tree sounds great. I love hammocks, haven't used one since I was wee.

    I understand what you said about not wanting things to be quite how they were after lockdown. I haven't really experienced much of lockdown, it's been brief in SA and was stuffed into an exceedingly busy workplace through it when I sincerely didn't want to be there. It was hard not being allowed to stop at the forest on the way home, though, the rules were you could only exercise within a km or two of home or work - ironic since there are less people in the forest. On the flip side, it was good to have the pressure of socialising or shopping or whatever off my shoulders on my days off. It's all a game of balance, I guess.

    To answer about how I am, I'm doing okay, just feeling very drained and I guess taking a step back from a lot of things to try and collect my energy again. Big tech detox lately, have imposed a limit of twice a day on checking stuff like e-mails, social media and the forums. Part of why I haven't been posting I guess, but it's been necessary to be a bit more present in my life and get out of compulsively checking and posting stuff.

    Garden is doing okay, planted all of our natives and most of them are in good shape still. We have the bits for irrigating the future veggie patch, just got to get it set up. We've been bringing the birds outside in their travel cages for some sun, too, now there is some. Much time spent just sitting with them and enjoying watching them sun themselves. Very cute.

    Kind thoughts to you, and EM, too.

    Blue.

    PS Welcome Jennyblue, thanks for telling your story and offering a bit of hope. :)

    2 people found this helpful
  27. ecomama
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    4525 posts
    12 October 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey J*

    How are you doing?

    I wondered how you went with choosing gifts for eldest daughter? whether you went ahead with that idea or left it.

    Hope things are going well with H and T of course.

    Are you back at work yet?

    I wish I could remove myself from technology more lol, my entire work day is ONLY using my laptop or phone.
    After so many months in this mode, it's going to be really strange getting back on site, like I'll need some getting used to it. Alas it will come all at once, strange how the Govt is "opening up" because it's not slow for our work place, it's 'everyone back at once'... not sure how that'll go.

    Take care my friend.

    Hi Blues and everyone reading,

    Love EMxxxx

    1 person found this helpful
  28. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    14 October 2021 in reply to Blue's Clues

    Hey Blue,

    Reading your post I was filled with a chilled peaceful energy ( altho tbh it could also be the slow rainy day here in New South ;)

    Hammocks are lovely! I need to set it up with hooks, so I can take it inside when not in use. Otherwise it’s a pain, or they don’t last very long. The feeling tho, of just gently swinging, watching the birds and listening....nothing to do, nowhere to go...

    I hear you about detoxing. I’ve been just sitting sometimes lately, not watching or talking or knitting or reading. Not even eating! It’s very..... restorative. I feel like I’m so aware of others and respond so much to them that to be doing nothing and just being with me.... let’s me rest.
    It’s totally understandable that you’ve needed down time, in lots of different ways. From what I’ve read, the past few years for you have been lots of energy, and caring. Just trying to manage to keep going. It’s very taxing on the system, and I think you’re very wise to rest and recover when you can.
    I’ve been doing a bit of that today. Late start at work, so I’m just going slow. I wrote in a card for my eldest d yesterday. I still need to post it. It’s a congrats card for her wedding next month. I guess it brought up some feelings, cos that’s what I’m doing! Feeling!
    I’d better get ready.
    lovely to read about your garden❤️🌻

    Cheers,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  29. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    20 October 2021 in reply to ecomama

    Hi Em,

    How ARE you? It’s been ages!

    wow work sounds taxing. I really dislike heaps of screen time so I can imagine how that is impacting you. Is your garden providing some respite?

    Ive been working most of the time, tho we cut back on services so not heaps of work. It’s ok now, back to normal-ish.
    Has it been strange to see life open back up again, or are ppl still cautious? Ppl are concerned up here that we'll get an influx of visitors and won’t be able to cope- tho most businesses are relying on visitors to the regions. It’s such a knock on effect.
    H and T are really good. H has been continuing to try, and is much easier to talk about things these days. He still shows signs of paranoid thinking, but not nearly as bad as it was.
    I paid my own dentist bill this week, which was a real sign of financial independence :) I guess I’m glad I had the money.
    How have your money issues been? Hoping you’re able to do what you need to. Tough times!

    it’s raining here today, and another cold snap. I washed my woollens thinking we were done...!! Soon enough, hey.

    My garden is doing nicely. Turned the peas in, ready for lettuces. Beans in the tomato bed. Some beans already on the back fence. Picked my first blueberry recently- first one for us. Until I netted them the birds were getting them before they even turned blue!

    Heating up spinach pie for dinner tonite. Yum!

    Take care Em.
    Love

    J*

    1 person found this helpful
  30. Jstar49
    Jstar49 avatar
    817 posts
    20 October 2021 in reply to Jstar49

    Hey Em,

    You asked about the presents for my d. Yes. I have a growing pile.

    This is the start of the hardest time of the year for me. Birthdays, the wedding, Christmas. Its usually my worst time of year anyway. The wedding next month just adds to it. I haven't heard anything about that yet, apart from getting the date from my mum a while ago, mostly for T. She didn't know if we'd missed it yet.

    O god I just feel like at any time I will just crack apart! Literally!

    Still, I did manage to send two cards, sister and daughter. Keeping it light, yet caring.

    Wanna know my biggest fear? That she will invite me, last minute, and I will almost have to go, and be in a hostile environment, with everyone looking at me like, well, y'know. I think that would be almost impossible to do, to be there, after everything thats gone on. To see my sister be more welcome in my daughters life than me. To see the questions in ppl's eyes. His parents, for eg. They must know things aren't great. Apparently d is really close to them.

    I try not to think about it, tbh.

    Probably why i forgot to answer that part of your post....

    Take care dearest Em,

    J*

    1 person found this helpful

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