Hey HamSolo01,

Just wanted to check how you were feeling today. Are you alright?

Hey

thanks for checking by

today was okay. Had a pretty sh*i*t moment today at uni but managed to get through, ran into someone i knew by chance which was nice.

Saw my psychiatrist today. Basically. CBT all the way. That's what I must work on. All the stuff in my mind comes from that by and large - even though i take meds, the majority of it all comes from my thought patterns etc.

Anyways. Gotta go eat my tea.

Thanks again :)

Hi HamSolo01,

No worries that's what we're here for hey.

Glad you had a better day. Even with the down moments you've just kept going. Good for you 😊 (nope no sarcasm just genuinely pleased).

I know the CBT has some good research etc behind it and works but I think I'm still a bit lost for making it work for me. I suppose because I'm dealing with a different set of problems as you (well excepting the self esteem). Maybe search the forums there might be some good ideas to help you.

Anyways hopefully tomorrow is a better day again. And new psych soon to look forward to and a female perspective.

Take care 😊

Hello, CBT is tough and it's not a catch-all therapy, but it does work for people. I had to stop parts of it because it just wasn't doing anything for me, but it worked for a friend of mine.

It's good to hear you're still pushing on. Your mental health is certainly worth the effort!

James

Hey

Once again, thanks for checking by :)

My psychiatrist was saying CBT will help so long as its intense and im honest. Be a totally open book. That's essentially why I'm there. I'm sick of the feel good type therapy that tries to focus on positivity. It has the potential to make me feel worse I find. Only when im honest and when I really deal with the stuff buried way down deep can it truly have an effect. Time to start digging i guess hey?

Today was average. Again.

A lot of that relationship crap is churning up too... hopefully i can talk that over with the new psych too.

I agree james1, my mental health certainly is worth the effort. I tend to think that the mind is the strongest muscle we have in our body and we must take good care of it. It effects the rest of ourselves in a profound way.

Hi HamSolo01,

How are you today?

I found what you wrote really helpful...

I'm sick of the feel good type therapy that tries to focus on positivity. It has the potential to make me feel worse I find. Only when im honest and when I really deal with the stuff buried way down deep can it truly have an effect.

You have a point. The positivity stuff helps until I hit a low patch and then when I can't hold onto the positive thinking I'm right back at square one. I think that's what appeals to me about psychotherapy the fact it's supposed to look at why you feel and act the way you do based on the past and deep buried feelings. I'm not sure how it's supposed to fix anything but it seems to be doing more good for me than CBT ever did.

You mentioned the relationship stuff keeps bothering you. Why do you think that is? Do you doubt your ability to meet someone? Do you feel unworthy of someone finding you appealing or interesting? Do you sabotage your own chances of meeting someone?

I'm just throwing out questions you don't have to answer at all. Just food for thought.

Thinking of you and hoping your day is better than average.

Aha your comment about the feel good type therapy made me remember something funny. There is an online blog called hyperbole and a half and there is a post called depression part 2 which rants about that. It's hilarious. I think you'd enjoy it.

Quercus had some good questions to mull over and even talk about with your psychologist. A lot of these things we don't know, but in talking to someone else about it, either you or they will 'reveal' thoughts and feelings which are just so unconscious, you don't notice them. It's that kind of questioning that can lead to some helpful but hard self-discovery - information which you can work on :)

I do like talking to you. You sound like you're really giving this a real go and I did want to just say we're noticing the hard work you're putting in to not only just cope, but take proactive steps with your psych and just to think about yourself.

James

Hey

Today has been very polar opposite. Good and bad.

CBT is something I've never really given much attention to it seems. My psych I'm too philosophical for psychotherapy lol. Either way all of it helps, we all have different ways of fixing ourselves in the end. The beast is the same but we must fight with it differently

Those are really good questions and I'll definitely be bringing them up with the new psych. She will have the notes from my psychiatrist as well so that's good - more info. Kinda like a dating profile for mental health. (I'm sure that exists somewhere haha). To be honest I really don't know why it keeps coming up. But the only way to deal with it from here on in is to talk it over with my new psych and go from there. That's were progress lies and it's really up to me to focus on doing that. It won't be easy but it'll be helpful.

Bit of news on the uni front - decided to reduce study load to part time after chatting with folks. Figured that I would be putting myself in a tremendously stressful situation by finishing mid-year then having very little to go off or do. By reducing it to part time I now finish at the end of the year but in the mean time I'm going to start looking for something that pays. Figured balance is the key really. Plus if I did go traveling after my degree I think I would've been worrying too much about what I would do when I got back to enjoy it you know? Didn't want that hanging over my head and instigating more worry - what I deal with is enough to deal with.

Was a good conversation with the folks - came home upset and annoyed but then was able to figure it out. As I write this I should be at spanish class but I'm here at home writing this up because I had a good chat to my folks about what was going down. Really good decision - silver linings I guess.

Must admit I feel a lot better now because of making that change to my studies. Gives me time to network a bit, establish more money and also take better care of my mental health. Winning all around.

But tomorrow with the new psych will be good too.

Such is the journey of mental health I guess?

Also, where do I find that blog? sounds like my type of thing haha

Hi HamSolo01,

Great news! I like the idea of finding work before you graduate it would take a lot of pressure and stress off you I think. Overall having a good chat with your family seems to have helped you. They've really come up with some good ideas that can help you. That is great to hear.

Maybe you can ask about volunteer work in your field with a few employers. At least then if you apply later they know you and you might find the interviews etc less stressful.

Good luck with the psych today! I really hope you can get better support. I like how she has your notes from the psychiatrist. Hopefully that means skipping all the initial introduce yourself stuff so you can get down to discussing what's really worrying you.

Anyway hope to hear it all goes well. Take care of yourself 😊

Hi HamSolo01,

Apologies for my delay in response, I haven't been on the forums for a while. I just wanted to see how everything is going - Quercus is doing an outstanding job talking to you and checking on you.

I read your last post from a couple of days ago and the positivity is shining through. How the last few days been? I like your decision to make Uni part time as well. You said it best, balance is the key and it seems you are finding that balance with everything from talking to your parents, to going to your psych, to reducing uni work load and finding a job. Keeping very busy which is great for mental health sufferers like us.

My best,

Jay

Hi HamSolo01,

Just wondering how you're going? What was the new psych like? Did you get anything helpful from your session? Any progress on the job hunt?

A thousand questions as usual just pick and ignore as you please haha.

Hope your last few days have been a bit better and you feel less stressed moving to part time study.

Take care 😊

Hey

Ive been off for a few days but have been reading up on this forum still. Just havent had thetime to write out a decent reply.

The psych was good. I can tell already that it will be a good thing changing over, The first session is usually one of initial assessment things but i kinda threw a few curveballs out at the psych. To not only get my money's worth but also to get some help at the time. But in that single session i can tell she's very professional. Its also good that she was applying what she knew to my scenario, i realised how i needed to move on actually helped.

Reducing to part time has taken a weight off my shoulders. Literally haha, i carry less stuff in my bag now. But also figuratively because i have less to consider and think about. I applied for a position with a think tank that deals with international relations and politics over the weekend. Had to throw in a sample of my writing. Hopefully they like it. I figured now is the best time to start developing my own voice on these matters. Considering its a proverbial sh*tfight to get anywhere in this "industry" because its all about networking and experience and how many degrees you have and where youve studied overseas (if you have)... i figured my strength is in my argument and communication. I firmly believe this trumps a whirlwind of experience because the nature of this "industry" (communication and such) is about argument. How you make it and what you make it is more important. But anyway, ill see what happens. I find writing about stuff helps so its a strength i have. Thats why i love talking on here haha.

This week she will finish the assessment though so thatll be good.

Im applying for a couple of things too, volunteering though. Paid work is hard to get at this stage in life while im part time. Familiy friend has offered to help out with getting experience and im applying for a nsw govt role where you operate the international student helpdesk. That'd be cool i reckon. Good way to boost confidence and meet new people (and potentially solve that relationship quandry i have i guess haha?). And i gotta sign up for a network program with australian network on disabilities (check them out btw if you are ever i need of assistance with work)

So i guess things are better. This thread has helped me heaps and i wanna say thank you for your help. Im not going anywhere though because there will still be challenges ahead.

Peace :)

Hey Hamsolo if you just google hyperbole and a half depression part two you'll find it on the first page :) the drawings are hilarious.

Great to hear the psych session went well. It can sometimes be a bit of trial and error trying to find a psych who fits your personality and needs, but it's all part of the process of working on yourself anyway.

Also happy to hear about the applications you've put through! Nice work! I really want to join nsw treasury one day to eventually get through to federal treasury but that's a long term plan haha.

James

Hi HamSolo01,

That is wonderful news all around! It was good to read your reply and see you back in a hopeful frame of mind.

The new psych sounds good. How do you find the female perspective compared to your male psych? Do you find her easier to talk to?

I'm really pleased you've lined up some volunteer work. I'm not going to go into the why or how but there are a few things that you may want to do before working at an airport...especially given your social anxiety. I find that being prepared helps to reduce the anxiety.

1. Go there before you start work and learn your way around. Find out where the taxi rank, toilets, first aid room, help desks, connecting buses etc all are. As a volunteer you will be asked every imaginable question by stressed out people. It helps if you are prepared or at least know where to direct people for help.

2. Find a quiet spot that you can go to if you feel overwhelmed. Airports are chaos. It is good to have a quiet and private spot to retreat to if you need it.

3. Save numbers in your phone of contacts that people might ask you for. Especially the airport emergency numbers. They should have these listed on their website.

I'm sure they will give you training but knowing your way around really does help you to feel more comfortable. I'm happy for you this sounds like a great way to meet people and to get comfortable talking to people. Can't wait to hear how you go.

Anyway I'm sorry if this sounds very disjointed I'm a bit of a mess lately but I really wanted to reply.

Hope things keep improving for you HamSolo01. 😊

Hi HamSolo01,

Great that you found the psych helpful and professional.. that can be one of the hardest things to find at times, a psych you connect with that not only challenges you but you can also challenge which is great that you are doing that. You seem to have so much direction with what and where you are going which is a huge step from where you were when you first got on these forums and that is called growth my friend and that is the best thing you can hope for when dealing with mental illnesses. Growth shows your strength is taking over and you a learning how to cope with added stress and pressure.

My best,

Jay

hey

today has been interesting..

dunno what it was but i felt terrible this evening and started thinking about relationships and sex again..

Ive begun to think im depressed because of this tbh. Going through high school i never had a female friend, my first one was in uni and its pretty much been that way since. As a result of this and also being very religious (to the point where i would talk about sex and morals in a christian context with the bibilical counsellor at school) i think this has formed some sort of frigid approach to life. Add to that my views on myself and what i have now is a virgin-inducing life.

I hate the fact that it effects me so much. I hate the fact that im a virgin and i hate religion.

I keep hearing about other's experiences and how they are enjoying themselves. And they arent making it up either. I keep thinking the longer i leave it the worse it will get. There is such a stigma over mental illness and a stigma over virginity i think and its worse for males.

Rationally speaking i xan make sense of it. But i must be honest and say i feel inadequate and feel like something is wrong with me.

Today a friend asked me how my dating life was and i was honest enough smto say i was working on myself but the thing is i feel like ive been working on myself for years to no avail. Plus depressed people can start up relationships no problem. i see it happen.

Never before have i felt so low, ashamed and disgusted with myself. Genuinely feels like ive screwed up and that the best opportunity (uni) is now gone.

I hate depression for everything its done but i hate it most of all for preventing me from developing healthy relationships with girls and being able to explore my sexuality... I dunno what to do.

Hey mitch,

Sorry to hear that you're in a real rut about this.

Sometimes when we are depressed, whatever the cause, we start to reach for reasons to latch onto. Unfortunately it can have a negative effect of perpetuating that cycle, repeating the reason, believing it, and effectively making it true.

You've said: "I hate the fact that it effects me so much."

I can really relate to this. I know I shouldn't be affected by other people's views about me and about what they want, but it really puts me down.

But rather than feed that negative thought, I'm trying to work on acknowledging that it's there, saying to myself, "it's temporary," and then redirecting my thoughts or even directly challenging them.

So if we start by acknowledging your pain - which is very clearly tied into those words of your post, where to from here? Well, while it is crippling now, you will be able to learn how not to tie your happiness with your sex life. This is actually what you're starting to do already.

By working on yourself and trying to find a way to accept that you are not a stereotype, you are breaking that mental link between your value as a male person and your sexuality. We're only in our 20's and finding who we are can take a bloody long time, but you've been doing really well recently to try and refocus your life. You've shown a lot of empathy for others here, perhaps you can show that same patience and care for yourself?

I know it may not sound like much consolation, but I like reading your posts because I can see you fighting back against the bad mental habits and would love to see you succeed.

James

Hi there James

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

the whole "heirachy of need" is what is bugging me most atm. Part of that is sex. People use it, so do many psychologists. It bugs me when i see sex as a need because its a reminder that im not getting all my needs fulfilled and alas there is a problem fundamentally linked to my psychological state.

I think to myself at times "sex to get happy or happiness to get sex" and i get demoralised and confused. I like how you can relate to me on a male to male level as well its always encouraging when i see other guys who have to go through this - lets me know im not the only one out there.

I have a hard time swallowing empty truths and pop culture generally. I feel like no amount of counselling, no amount of meds and no amount of psychology can change a societal reality. The reality is that people lose their virginity in their late teens and early 20s. Those who do not are either religious or have a set of core beliefs that they value.

Going from one extreme (religion) to where i am now (which is NOT the polar opposite) is also part of the problem. Constantly being told im sinful and deserve death made me believe that jesus christ was a supposed saviour for me. While most teenagers spent time developing their social lives, moving around friendship groups, doing whatever else it is that kids do i was too preoccupied with religion. It was a means to survive those years i think. It was an identity i had and it was secure. With that came notions of sexual morality. I firmly think all religion is wrong in the same way and as a result so are the core beleifs over what makes behaviour right and wrong.

However, i havent fully adopted the persona of a relentless rebel like many ex religious people do.

I dont want people's sympathy. I want to be bloody well heard and respected. The stigma around male virginity is about as bad as mental health i reckon. I can say that as a representative of both.

Im on my own in this and im sick of it. I figured today its a major trigger for suicidal ideation. Weird hey? Sex makes me think of suicide.. ive already committed social suicide and im simply a dead man walking if i hang with old social groups.

Ive been branching out a bit into new groups but its soooooo hard.

Anyways. Thanks

Hey Mitch,

I've got a few things this arvo but I thought I'd just say I thought your post was interesting and I'll definitely post a reply later.

A lot of what you said...geez, it sure brings back not-too-distant memories. I went to an all-guys school and the pressure was pretty darn real back then. It's no wonder most of my close friends now are female. The pressure guys put on other guys just by what they talk about...yeah, it's unhealthy.

James

Hi HamSolo01,

It's sad to see you so hard on yourself to be honest.

This struck me in what you said...

The reality is that people lose their virginity in their late teens and early 20s. Those who do not are either religious or have a set of core beliefs that they value.

You are right but you've missed a pretty important third group of people. Those who are hurting. People who have put up walls around themselves to protect themselves. Those who for whatever reason don't like themselves or see themselves as a person someone could want in any way.

I know some people like this. Like you. Who want affection but at the same time push people away when they get too close. This is private but I will share because you are hurting.

I remember a long time after leaving my abusive ex I asked my friend why he never had a date. He was smart and handsome and athletic so it confused me. He blushed and mumbled some excuse I couldn't hear. So I asked him out. He blushed and said no. I asked him out again a day later. Said you're way out of my league but you're my friend and I like you what's the harm?

So we dated for years. And the secret came out. He was a virgin. At 23. His parents nagged him incessantly about being gay. His self esteem was worse than mine almost (and that says a lot!). He was so deeply ashamed.

He expected me to laugh. To put him down. I said to me sex had been for my husband. For who I would marry. I allowed my first boyfriend to treat me like dirt because in my mind I had to make it work. Even if that meant being controlled and abused, having no life or friends or money. Leaving him meant giving up on what meant a lot to me. I was worthless in my mind. Ashamed. Virginity shouldn't be a shame it's a gift. He was stunned.

He was my teacher in learning not to expect abuse. I was his teacher in the only thing I felt confident in. It wasn't love. It was comfort. And learning to accept ourselves, be self confident, to heal the wounds others had given our sense of self. Self confidence is remarkably attractive.

You aren't alone in this. You're not weird or abnormal. You just need to be able to accept that there are people who find you appealing. That no matter your self esteem you are worth caring about.

Sex is easy. If it's solely about sex you can pay for that. But it is deeper than that for most people. It's about wanting to be desired. Wanting someone to want you. I don't have any answers I'm sorry. I just understand why you feel so down.

Hi HamSolo01,

I 100% agree the stigma that comes along with male virginity is quite intense... if we haven't lost it by a certain age we are made to feel like outcasts where if a female has not lost her virginity it is a sign of her being a "good girl" - Just like mental health as you alluded too - the stigmas are it all are always incorrect and the way they are perceived is just as bad. I was exactly like you through high school, never had a girlfriend, never was liked by any girls, had friends who I liked but they never liked me back so I get how you are feeling. It is crap I understand that and I can see how it would relate to depression - it literally makes you feel so low, I have and had self esteem issues as well. The religion side is something I don't tend to discuss on here but I can see how it has affected you too. Sorry if this is a double up, have you bought this whole sex issue up with your counsellor at all? Just curious to see what they have said if you have.

I know it's a tough day but try and keep your head up.

My best,

Jay

Hey Quercus

Thanks for sharing your story about your friend and you.

I like how you are able to draw on your experience (the good and bad) in order to make a point about life. It really helps :)

I feel angry whenever i hear about guys mistreating women. I think this comes from being raised in a good home, where my younger sister and mum have been awesome. Whenever i hear guys talking about women like meat it makes me cringe a bit. Plus i remember many female friends too.

I fear that this attitude will shoot myself in the foot. How can a guy like me actually get anywhere with girls when he is isolated socially, but getting help.. making plans for his life but having to change them.. all this while i am at "my prime" as a young, relatively healthy guy? THATS where i get depressed.. thats what triggers ideation.

In the past ive noticed girls have looked at me. Weirdly, i think initially this caused me anxiety but ive begun to realise that this might be because i look appealing to them (even saying that i get cringey because i worry it will go to my head)

Yesterday i set myself the task of FINALLY trying to talk to this girl who i thought was gorgeous (brown hair, brown eyes, tall, studies hard) because i had my eye on her the whole semester. Even though i had dropped the subject i thought of at least trying to see if i could. The walk to the lecture hall was hard. I actually felt sooo nervous you see. My plan was to find where she was and sit next to her.. last week i tried this but then realised she happened to be sitting elsewhere. Funnily enough.. where i would've sat anyway. So i sat on the same aisle and i noticed her look at me for a few seconds.. It was strange.

Anyways i got there yesterday and sure enough she wasnt there. I had to laugh at myself really... Getting all worked up over something that simple.. But to me it felt like i conquered some of my anxiety. I could've avoided it and then regretted it forever but i soldiered through. Now i know i tried. I'll likely never see that girl again and be presented with an opportunity.. and that is what really annoys me. This is just a recurring theme.

The same thing happens all the time. I get presented with opportunities but am tio afraid to take them. Could've sparked up a conversation with a girl in a lift at uni once because i recognised that she pressed a different button to what i did.. didnt do it.. too scared. she was even looking at me as well..

will continue the rest in a post

Virginity is disdained in mainstream culture i would say. But mainstream culture is full of problems. But its also how one bonds with their peers.. so it sucks to be caught in the middle. I think i still hold onto some notion of saving sex for someone special. Not marriage, but just someone you are romantically involved with - like i could've been on many occassions -_-

Evolution kind of made this the case i reckon, primary function of sex (the raw desire) is procreation. Considering we've grown out of that its become an act of enjoyment which is totally fine. But maybe im not cut out to be one of "the dudes". I think im more sentimental than that.

The trick for me personally is to take pride in that decision - that is who i am and if people think its weird then great.. i dont care. But the problem itself still exists... I have little sekf esteem and worry about girls being turned off by my virginity.

I just want to enjoy the happiness and security of romance. I just want to enjoy finding out about a girl i find attractive.. but it just doesnt happen.. all because of anxiety and depression..

I hate seeing girls get mistreated. I go to uni and the colleges there have a lot of issues there with this crap. I feel sorry for any girl who goes through that. Its disgusting, they shouldnt be made to feel like they have to "put out" for guys.. They even have games where virgin girls are 'auctioned off'. Its legal because its consensual but its group mentality and over excitement gone wrong. Google it. Youll see what im talking about. Glad i dont reside in those places... Where is the world heading?

I kind of hope that if i do manage to get a gf at some point ill make it clear to her that i want her to feel safe and respected. No one's gonna treat my girl badly haha. You mess with her you deal with me. (I know she can stand up for herself but i still want to show i care haha) i feel like in 10 years i will need to given how regressive masculinity has become...

One can dream...

You know i reckon i worry too much about coming across as a creep considering many asshole guys hit on women.. im not an asshole but i worry i might seem like a creep who cant talk properly.

There's a lot of baggage that this carries for me and i will bring it up with my psych this afternoon. I planned on being honest so i will continue to be.

Anyways. Thanks again. It is helping :)

Hey Mitch,

I hope you don't mind if my post is a bit convoluted. I'm trying to reply to both of your posts in one.

Also, in case I dip into my unfeeling philosopher brain, I'll say it upfront: I think you're doing a really good thing by sounding these out here and bringing them to your psych. Like you said, these thoughts can often represent a heap of baggage which weighs us down.

Okay!

I liked that you're trying to understand why you might value sex so much outside of social pressures: is it a romantic notion? Does it come from evolution? Is it a rejection of religious beliefs?

Can you use these secondary thoughts about what you believe to have a more useful discussion with yourself and your psych? So whenever you get trapped in the cycle of, 'I'm a virgin; I am unworthy", challenge it by doing exactly what you've done above. Why do I think this and hence what are my real values?

You said you're more sentimental than a pure evolutionary explanation and it should be for someone special - maybe not marriage, but with someone you connect with. These are good thoughts to clarify what you believe is the place of sex and relationships in happiness. I think I'm the same as you and I also can't be one of "the dudes", but I'm okay with that. I definitely have beliefs which are caught up in that stuff, but the only way to get rid of these beliefs is to first understand where they come from, then to challenge them. I think you're doing this well - but it will take time.

Your other point about how you approach women...yeah that one's a pretty steep learning curve. I've read quite a few posts about that in the last year and, honestly, it's one of those ones that leaves everybody scratching their heads. It's repeated everywhere to "just be yourself" but I find that super unhelpful. And false too. You have to be the best version of yourself, and even then you'll come up against a lot of rejection.

So I honestly think the only rule that is actually useful is to be prepared for rejection. Just as there are many guys you know who are immature, the same thing goes for females. We're just different sexes of the same species. So the honest truth is there aren't many who are compatible and we need to be learn that rejection doesn't come from a place of our own perceived failures. I think you'll find that you're looking for someone very specific too. Don't forget that everyone out there searching didn't only reject you. They rejected a bunch of other guys too.

James

Hi HamSolo01,

Not sure where to start ☺ You've given me lots of interesting topics. I'll start with this one...

but ive begun to realise that this might be because i look appealing to them (even saying that i get cringey because i worry it will go to my head)

This is a good thing. Yep maybe like James said there will be times that you're wrong and feel like an idiot. But it's better than always wondering what if. What if she was interested? What if. The joy of regret. Being able to recognise that you are a person who is appealing in some way and have something to offer another is a huge step.

There's something appealing about quiet self confidence and self assurance. My husband is like this. He values compliments from people he values and cares about. Otherwise he couldn't care less what people think. I love it. I notice people are drawn to him because he does not want or need their approval.

I told him once I secretly wish for attention when we are out because I want him to feel like his wife is desirable and to make him proud. He looked at me like I was nuts. Why would you care about that? Do you think I would have married you if I didn't think you were attractive? Interesting? Worthwhile? I don't care what they think... It's what I think that matters. I love remembering that. That is the true measure of a man in my mind.

So good on you HamSolo01. The only people who's opinion about you matters are the people who's opinions you choose to value.

So what if you're a virgin? There may be women who are worried by that. Fair enough. Move on and try again. Choose to focus on the fact that you're waiting for someone who you feel is worth becoming intimate with. What's wrong with that? Nothing. Maybe you'll be surprised in the world of casual sex that we live in how many women are revolted by the player attitude so many men have.

I'm glad you see the psych this arvo to talk this through. In the meantime just put yourself out there. Talk to people. If you start a conversation with a woman you like say something like... I find you interesting. I'd like to keep talking to you... Do you want to go get a coffee? If they are interested they'll say yes (or if they're busy will give you their contacts). Of not. What have you lost?

Hopeful for you HamSolo01 ☺.

Hey

thanks to the both of you for your help :)

@james - sex outside social pressures exists due to the intimacy element. Thing is, I know of many guys who boast about many girls they have been with. I don't judge them for it - so long as it wasn't forced... this day and age it seems like that's becoming all too common. You can't really blame women for wanting to avoid some guys... seem like they are just thrusting thin air lol. But in all seriousness, that really isn't me. I can see how devoid of meaning or purpose such an endeavour is. It's like they came to a fork in the road as a 16 year old and thought either stick on the course of following natural outlets and let this be a defining thing for their confidence etc. or take a different path that says you are more than just whom you sex it up with. Maybe many guys chose the first option? I dunno. All i know is that for me this WHOLE question comes down to 2 distinctive traits/realities. 1 - I'm curious about the opposite sex and want to find out about them and 2 - i want to be in a committed relationship with a girl whom i trust and she trusts me before i worry about sex and all that it entails. The quandry presented here is that how do i get to such a stage? It's easily said but it's hard to do. The solution is to 'be myself' but this may not seem like enough at times but it's literally all that's needed for the purposes for which I am treating sex and relationships.

I can not ignore the fact that mainstream culture has a lot to do with the way I view myself and the lack of a sexlife i have. Now, why care what mainstream culture says right? Well... I hate not fitting in. But then why would I want to fit in with such a crowd anyway? Surely it's better to be true to my own value but also find comfort in doing so. I think there's a subtle difference in being true to oneself and also being comfortable in doing so. Never be true to yourself out of spite, be true to yourself because its good to be true to yourself. I'm my own man and I make my own choices. Simple. THIS is the trope of the modern male that seems to be missed out I think. Truly an alpha characteristic I would say. However, such an approach isn't conducive to social isolation... because not ALL elements of society value how many times you've had sex. My basic point in all this is rather simple but hard to execute - find comfort and happiness in the simple fact that I'm not getting carried away with what everyone else does to "fit in".

@Quercus - Indeed. Recognising such a fact is an important reality. One friend told me i was hot lol. But the problem when i hear this is that it gets to me and i think "oh great... so i am hot but im not doing anything about it". This is the worst thing I can think. Who said I had to do anything about it anyway? What would that even look like? I'll choose my own life thank you very much haha.

I have attractive assets. That's all it means. The reality is that one's self-worth shouldn't depend on one's attractiveness. Nothing worse than someone who is attractive but 'knows it'... arrogance is off the charts with those people.

I agree. There is something VERY attractive about quiet self-confidence and assurance. Similar to what I just said about people who are attractive. You know i saw an episode of that show called first dates once on the tv.. there was a model who was out with this guy and the guy was over the moon about how attractive she was and couldn't understand why she was single. I could kind of tell she didn't really think she was all that good looking (Which she was haha). It made me think that there's a weird expectation that attractive people MUST be happy or MUST have it easy. If I had a dollar for every person who told me that being tall was something that got me a lot of attention from women then I'd be rich haha. But the thing is I value far more than attractiveness in people - thought it does help haha. It's funny because when i was watching that show i was picking up on subtle things this girl was doing.. she was rather uncomfortable being told she was attractive. I kept thinking this guy should shut up because he was ruining his chance lol. I felt like I could have done a better job had i been there haha.

I like that story you told too. It proves that your husband has his head screwed on properly haha. There is hope. I'm inspired by that :)

I do value those close and their opinions and nothing else. Perhaps this is why I'm more interested close connections prior to physical relationships? Perhaps it's why I'm a bit of a romantic too lol.

Being revolted by the player attitude? Good point. I begin to see that this a common thing cropping up.Goes to the heart of what I was talking about earlier that takes place in colleges at uni. Perhaps girls there feel they must do this to be accepted? Sad reality.

Anyway. Curious to hear your thoughts again :)

Thanks :)

I feel like not only are you being hard on yourself for not having those experiences but also because you are frustrated with yourself for tying your happiness to it.

It's okay to want those experiences, it's normal. There is much joy to be had sharing your life with another person (if it's a healthy relationship), not tying your self worth to another person though. But you can be happy being single too and there are many perks being single over being in a relationship. They both have good points.

But I do understand what it's like to be longing for love, more so if you haven't had it before.

I see connection as a human need, you may not die without it like you do water but I still believe it is a need in all of us. Isolation can really mess with your head even if you have good self esteem.

I think you probably are desirable to women and it sounds like you have a lot to offer in terms of who you are inside as a person, please don't go changing yourself to fit into the "player" crowd. Players and sleazy men are one of the biggest off putting traits (well for me anyway) but I suspect for a lot of women.

From what you've said about the kind of man that you are, I can tell you that a lot of women would kill to be with a man like that, especially after being treated like shit by other men. If you find a girl who is a decent human being, you're virginity shouldn't even be an issue.

I think the issue is just making contact, trying to make a connection. Which is hard for a lot of people, I mean it's scary and it makes you feel vulnerable to put yourself out there.

There are probably more women than you realize who feel attracted to you and curious about you but maybe they feel like you come across as not interested? Maybe they are also feeling insecure and shy about talking to you. I think women still like men to make the first move generally.

Sorry to hear about the girl you were going to talk to at uni, Do you think she sat in your seat to try to talk to you as well? Is there any chance you could find her on facebook or something to strike up a conversation?

Hi HamSolo01,

I did want to reply about your comment about auctions at colleges but had to stop and think how to word it.

I find there is a strange balance. Between being revolted at the player attitude and being drawn to it. I suspect that's why so many young women get drawn into degrading acts like the auctions you mentioned.

I haven't really been able to explain the why of this until I saw a user here mention an author called Athol Kay. I checked out his blog out of curiousity and then ordered some books (haven't arrived yet grr). His ideas are facinating and make some sense to me. There is the pull towards the alpha male. But the need for the beta to feel safe and loved.

Which makes complete sense when I think of my husband. He is alpha to the world. Strong. Capable. Self reliant. Dominant. Sometimes arrogant. But to me he shows the Beta. The tenderness and vulnerability that is just for me. And our children. I was conflicted for a long time because my ex and my husband share similar traits (alpha) and I felt guilty about this. Then I saw these theories and realised it's natural to be attracted to alpha characteristics but the balance between the alpha and beta is what makes the difference. My husband doesn't come from a place of harm. He loves me wants to protect me and build me up.

My ex had none of this. And that's where the player crap is so hurtful. Being young and naieve and vulnerable it's easy to be sucked in by the confidence. But a real man is the balance of confidence and respect.

I suppose that's what I wanted you to consider. It's not a bad thing to be confident or even arrogant. I remember a friend saying she dated a bloke and when they went to bed he shrugged and apologised for the size of himself. She said it frustrated her because until that moment she thought he was gorgeous but his shame in himself was the turn off. So own your virginity, own who you are social anxiety, Star Wars fanatic and all 😊.

If I can own being plant crazy, average looking, socially awkward, previously abused doormat and manage to find love then you know what? You will too. Yes I know you may get angry feeling this is a throwaway comment. But it is not. You don't have to fix anything about yourself HamSolo01. You don't even have to be able to see the good things in yourself. Just put yourself out there, accept failures with grace and keep trying. And try again. 😊

Ahh another saga. Sorry 😊

wow... thank you so much haha.

I feel like what you've said is 100% relevant.

I honestly feel like I do have such qualities. The issue for me is the self-esteem and acceptance thing. This is the primary area of concern and literally everything that goes on in my mind comes back to it and I include all this relationship stuff as well.

It's funny because I really don't give a rats ass about what everyone else thinks but then I kind of do in some way.

I love it when you said this:
"You don't have to fix anything about yourself HamSolo01. You don't even
have to be able to see the good things in yourself. Just put yourself
out there, accept failures with grace and keep trying. And try again."

Because I feel like this is what I am in the process of doing anyway. Bleak moments will hit but as long as I'm winning the war then losing a battle or two doesn't matter. I always use war metaphors because they are the most appropriate for this sort of thing.

Branching out is what I've been trying lately and it's proving moderately okay. These things take time I guess.

I love the example you gave of your friend being frustrated because the shame the guy had in himself was a turn off. I often feel ashamed of my mental health. There's a quote from game of thrones in reference to "weakness" and adversity, "wear it like armor and it can never be used to hurt you".

This is my approach. My own personal war. Only cheap A-holes laugh at that sort of thing.

It's all a process I guess.

Feels like I've made some progress in the past few weeks anyway. New psych will help.

I think I just need to sit back a bit and let the process run itself... stop wanting to control it all. I'm doing what needs to be done and what is good. That's all that matters at this point. Life is not over. I'm not wasting away and I'm definitely not worthless. I'm simply in a time of adversity and all I need to do is accept that. Then I can deal with it in the right way - which I know how to do.

The stuff I spoke about earlier. About being noticed etc.. Great.. whatever... For now I'll remember it but I will not base my esteem in it. I can indeed do this. Owning things is something I've been thinking of lately and I will do this. Own it all. Every last bit.

Thanks again people :)