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Forums / PTSD & Trauma / Complex PTSD - What is it and how do we cope?

Topic: Complex PTSD - What is it and how do we cope?

  1. Just Sara
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    12 March 2018

    'Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD; also known as complex trauma disorder) is a psychological disorder thought to occur as a result of repetitive, prolonged trauma involving sustained abuse or abandonment by a caregiver or other interpersonal relationships with an uneven power dynamic.' Wikipedia description..

    I think this pretty much sums it up yeah?

    I wish I could underline; '..relationships with an uneven power dynamic'. In my own case, C-PTSD was triggered by bullying in my workplace from 2008 until 2014. I developed symptoms such as Anxiety/Panic that grew in severity until a tragic breakdown in 2014. I was forced to medically retire.

    Although my history of multiple trauma's and childhood abuse caused specific responses in me from an early age, I thought I was normal and everyone was the same. In fact, a lot of people in my inner circle were.

    Decades later, I find out those friends/family members/acquaintances had gone thru their own traumatic situations. So why wouldn't I feel normal around them?

    Today, as opposed to the 70's/80's (my adolescence/young adulthood) where abuse wasn't discussed, people have resources to out their pain and confusion in spaces like BB forum or with psychologists, social workers, medico's, psychiatrists and even friends/family.

    Treatment has become the 'norm' instead of going it alone which is what many of us here had to do until society caught up with this 'pandemic' (IMO) of psychological disorders.

    So, why create a thread dedicated to C-PTSD? Well, stigma and misconception around it's still rife in our society, and people suffering with this horrible disorder and not realising it is a constant.

    Your views are absolutely welcome! We really do need to talk about it as consequences of C-PTSD and the benefits of therapy are worthy and an important part of recovery.

    Newcomers and current members alike are encouraged to post; old, young, male or female.

    Let's pick each other's brain and see where it leads...

    Kind thoughts;

    Sez

    14 people found this helpful
  2. Guest8901
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hi Sez. I think we have crossed paths on another ptsd thread, Pamela's perhaps? Hi. (:

    Your new thread just caught my eye and I would like to keep track of the conversation. I'm not able to comment just now though, so I hope thats okay? I was diagnosed with C-PTSD earlier this year.

    Amanda

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  3. Ggrand
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez,

    Thank you so very much for this thread,

    Just tagging for now..

    Not doing to good atm, constant crying..going to bed

    but def interest in learning how to cope.

    Kindness only,

    Grandy..

    4 people found this helpful
  4. Just Sara
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Guest8901

    Thanks Amanda and Grandy;

    It's an incredibly important issue up for discussion. I'm so glad you both have tagged it.

    (For those who don't know how to do this, just post on this thread and it will automatically be placed on your personal 'My Threads' list. The button itself is next to 'New Posts' above public sections and post lists)

    There's something I should've placed in my original post...

    Post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is a disorder that can develop after a person is exposed to 'a' traumatic event, such as sexual assault, warfare, traffic collisions, or other threats on a person's life.

    To reiterate the definition of C-PTSD;

    Complex post-traumatic stress disorder (C-PTSD; also known as complex trauma disorder) is a psychological disorder as a result of repetitive, prolonged trauma involving sustained abuse or abandonment by a caregiver or other interpersonal relationships with an uneven power dynamic.

    Seeing the two definitions along side each other provides clear, key differences between them. There's long been confusion and scepticism about C-PTSD saying it's just a worse version of PTSD. However as I've shown, it stands alone in its description.

    I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts..

    Sez

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  5. startingnew
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara
    Just tagging for now..
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  6. geoff
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hi Sez, I have just seen your thread and would like to join in, the trouble is I'm logging off now.

    Will do tomorrow because what happened to me has not only change my entire life but still affects me in certain circumstances and has changed me completely. Geoff.

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  7. Just Sara
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    12 March 2018 in reply to geoff

    You're welcome to join in Geoff;

    Sending a shout-out to anyone suffering the effects of C-PTSD. As we move along, we'll discuss issues such as; people who self diagnose, symptoms in childhood/adulthood, research, successful therapy/treatment options, goals, coping strategies, health professionals and understanding what your diagnosis means to you and your family.

    I'm also interested to know how many active/non active members on BeyondBlue forum have been diagnosed with C-PTSD. Even if you read only, maybe you could drop in with a quick post to help identify numbers.

    I look forward to hearing from you...

    Sez

    9 people found this helpful
  8. Ggrand
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez,

    I have been diagnosed with C-PTSD, cause by a long time, nearly a life time of abusive by family members..Dad, Mum older brother, hubby and so called hubby's friends...

    Coping I'm not, especially with so many triggers around daily.. It could take a single word or action that sends me way down extremely quickly into a depth that really is frightening for me..

    Im here really needing help badly to help me cope, because I'm really struggling to stay here at times..

    Kindness only,

    Karen...(Grandy).

    4 people found this helpful
  9. Just Sara
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Hey Grandy;

    It's a short one as I really have to go. Sorry hun..

    Could you please have a think about what you feel is the 'base cause' of your triggers. It might be hopelessness, consequences or feeling powerless for instance. It 'needs' to be about you, not your abusers ok.

    This is to help identify responses individual to you. Oh, and it doesn't have to be in one word or trigger either. Eg.. I feel intense fear of failure/success when I'm confronted by positive opportunities.

    I'll be back tomorrow morning ok.

    Sez

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  10. Ggrand
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez,

    Thank you very much.

    I have an intense fear of some people but all strangers walking towards me, I feel very vulnerable and afraid they might say something to me..

    I Feel absolutely useless when I do anything around the home, ie: putting a screw in the wall, just cleaning in general, or gardening, shopping , it makes me feel totally lost like I don't know how to do things. It's hard to explain.

    Sez mostly I feel lost,scared, useless and extremely unsure of me and what to do..Scared and useless of just living daily.. I suppose I would say..

    Im not sure if this is what you're asking me to tell you.. If not I'm sorry... and I'll try again.

    Kind thoughts,

    Grandy.

    5 people found this helpful
  11. Guest8901
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    12 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hi Sez, and thanks for providing a clear definition of the two types of PTSD. When I was first diagnosed, I looked everywhere on the internet to try to get information about C-PTSD, but you put it clearly and in a way I can understand. Thank you.

    Brief background to explain my diagnosis. I was initially exposed to a traumatic event by way of a sexual assault when I was in my mid 20's. This caused my initial PTSD symptoms, which were never treated. A couple of years later I married my now husband. For the past 20 years I have been living in a domestic abuse situation. Hence the recent diagnosis of C-PTSD.

    I'm particularly interested in what everyone has to say about treatment options. Although I have not yet commenced any treatment, my clinical psych has spoken to me about possibly doing CBT and Exposure Therapy. She also mentioned, I think, CBT Eye Movement something or other. Currently however, she says I'm not ready for any of those. She wants to make sure I have the self help tools to cope before we get started. So to date, we have just been talking and monitoring.

    I'm also curious what others think about medications, and if they work for you. I was put on ADs after a short spell in hospital recently, but so far I cant say they've been a lot of help.

    Karen (Hi there (:) Startingnew (Demonblaster mentioned me to you in a post a few days ago, about ADs) Geoff (Always lovely to see you)

    Thanks Sez for starting this thread.

    Amanda

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  12. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Good morning Karen; (Grandy)

    I was thinking about you when I woke up. I felt bad for not acknowledging your obviously traumatic history with loved ones in my last post. How tragic your life has been.. I really feel for you.

    I'd like to explain a little about this if it's ok. As I'm on here posting most days, and have been for a few yrs, I've had to learn to disconnect from people's pain to continue providing support.

    Much of my C-PTSD comes from feeling responsible and suffering over the safety and well being of my siblings and Nan when young, then working in social 'helping' professions for 30 yrs. I've had to learn to distance my emotions to survive.

    **

    What you've described makes perfect sense. You've had others violently telling you what to do, how to do it and why, all your life. It's a natural response to feel deeply insecure and alone.

    Belief: Trust no-one!

    The reason I asked that question was to help you identify just how vulnerable 'your abusers' have made you feel, by grooming you to be invisible and totally dependent on them. Now that you're on your own, life seems raw and frightening, no wonder!

    In essence, you're still that child living at home with your folks waiting to be 'told', but they're not there. Moving into adulthood drew you to more abusers who reestablished control, keeping you in the loop of helplessness. You've never had the chance to grow up. Does this make sense?

    C-PTSD's about 'Patterns' more than anything else. Interrupting or changing those patterns is scary as Hell shit! What you feel isn't your fault. It's perfectly normal under the circumstances ok. You've never owned your own life..

    Now in saying all that, what you're left with as a consequence is not knowing how to be visible and independent. Even more importantly, you have power over your life now and don't know how to deal with that. It's an unknown quantity; foreign..

    I'm interested to hear your thoughts on what I've written.

    Talk soon;

    Sez

    10 people found this helpful
  13. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Guest8901

    Hi Amanda;

    Thanks for joining in on the discussion. Your situation of DV is a common cause of c-ptsd, but few seek help until they're desperate.

    In your post you mentioned exposure therapy, (ET) though I don't quite understand the relevance of this considering you're living with your abuser?

    The therapy you're wondering about's called EMDR.

    Eye Movement Desensitisation and Reprocessing is a form of psychotherapy which uses eye movements or other forms of bilateral stimulation to assist people process distressing memories and beliefs.

    It's commonly used for the treatment of ptsd. (Not c-ptsd) The theory behind the treatment assumes that when a traumatic or distressing experience occurs, it may overwhelm normal coping mechanisms. The memory and associated stimuli is then inadequately processed and stored in an isolated memory network.

    Therapy includes having the patient recall distressing images while receiving one of several types of bilateral sensory input, such as side-to-side eye movements or hand tapping. EMDR is most commonly used to treat adults with PTSD, but it is also used to treat trauma and PTSD in children and adolescents.

    It's recommended in several treatment guidelines; however, it's been controversial and its effectiveness is still debated due to concerns over the quality of evidence, contradictory findings, significant rates of researcher bias and dropout rates in studies.

    **

    It appears your therapy's based on the trauma event in your 20's and not c-ptsd from DV. (Just my observation) Please let me know if I'm off the mark.

    As this thread's dedicated to c-ptsd, could I ask if you discuss your ptsd on related threads? Please don't feel upset with me ok. C-ptsd is a separate diagnosis and I really don't want them to be confused. Although symptoms may be similar between the two, causes, coping strategies and treatment differ.

    I'm happy to discuss your 20 yr DV situation because it's an important topic with c-ptsd.

    I hope I haven't offended you Amanda. It's not my intention at all. Sometimes threads can evolve into foreign discussions that side track the original issue. I'm trying to stay focused to help the BB forum community.

    Respectfully;

    Sez

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  14. demonblaster
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hey Chooky so glad I saw this, couldnt remember who said they were going to do this. Thanks hun good thread I agree its important to discuss

    There's been mention that I might have C-PTSD tho I'm not sure about this I want to follow and learn more.

    I fortunately had beautiful parents great upbringing just shame about the brain I landed 🙂 and haven't had trauma as such although I'd willingly say going through repeated Bipolar is highly traumatic moreso with the deep depression which is partly due imo (open to listening) why I though can relate to "uneven power dynamic". Does this mean being domineered and feeling insecure and inferior around certain people. If so then maybe? I'm aware I'm ? Opposing the experts but need to do my own homework first so Im not closed to this yet but eithet way still interested

    Does this cause recurring pain to come back from previous hurt or is that down to deep depression do you know?

    So what happens with this I should be asking?

    Thanks darl and everyone contributing for us all to have more understanding

    Take good care chooky you're magic 🤗

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  15. Guest8901
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    I'm sorry Sez, I did not mean to intrude.

    Yes I do discuss both my initial trauma as well as my ongoing DV issues on my own thread. I dont know what the treatments my psych discussed were based upon. But that was early days and she has more information on hand now. So I dont know what treatment she will eventually opt for.

    Sorry to have wasted your time. I will stick to my own thread.

    Amanda

    4 people found this helpful
  16. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Guest8901

    Please don't be sorry Amanda;

    IMO, you have two types of issues that require treatment; a past traumatic event and current/past Domestic Violence. I know your psych is a great help with addressing both of these issues, and being a clinical psychologist, she can help with complex treatment options where others may not have the experience/qualifications. You're lucky in this respect.

    You have definitely NOT wasted my time or that of others. What we've discussed is a very important aspect re diagnosis and recovery. As you've been diagnosed with c-ptsd, I'm happy to talk on here with you about it. It's also encouraging to others to know you're dealing with two sets of diagnosis;

    SN for instance, has this in her profile. (I hope you don't mind me saying this SN) She deals with a traumatic event re her sis's dog attack as well as ongoing sexual abuse in adolescence.

    My purpose is to define and differentiate between the two, help readers/posters understand so misconceptions/scepticism can be overcome, support them in recovery, and talk to their health professionals with a bit more knowledge and self insight.

    I have no issues with you posting here, and in fact it might be advantageous to talk about the differences there may be with your experiences and symptoms for instance.

    Comments in my last post refers to keeping this thread open for c-ptsd yes, but talking about having both ptsd and c-ptsd would be welcomed. As I said, if I'm off the mark, please let me know.

    It's a safe place to out your concerns Amanda ok.

    Kind thoughts;

    Sez

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  17. Guest8901
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    😀

    I dont want to confuse anyone. I am confused enough myself about it all. I dont know where one finishes and the other starts. Its just all a jumbled up mess of pain and confusion. All seemingly inter related.

    I will continue to read because I think I belong here. Or at least my psych says I do. I dont see why the fact that I remain with my abuser should invalidate me. But I dont feel that I can comment here any more.

    Amanda. 💔

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  18. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to demonblaster

    Hey DB Chooky;

    What you describe is a result of ongoing symptoms of BP, not a result of abusive and repetitive human interactions over a long period which is what c-ptsd is.

    Your question's really relevant though because it reflects the type of confusion people can have when questioning their symptoms etc prior to being diagnosed or even afterwards.

    Although you and I both might experience anxiety, depression or mania, it doesn't mean we're the same. It's the causative factors such as trauma, childhood, relationships and anything historical actually, that help our psychiatrists assess/evaluate our diagnosis and treatment plans.

    The fact that c-ptsd includes 'Post Traumatic' within the acronym, gives an indication of what it is. I hope this makes sense and answers your querie.

    Thanks heaps you wonderful woman!

    I'm sure people reading will now appreciate that 'all' questions are worthy.

    Warm thoughts;

    Sez

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  19. startingnew
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hi Sez

    I dont really mind am just alittle reserved in talking about them but am confused what the relevance was..? The way i interpreted that bit was you started to say something but didnt finish.. would u mind explaining alittle more by what you meant.....? And it was both myself and sis with the dog-scary stuff that was.

    Good work on bringing this topic up too. Im sure your helping many both posting and just reading👍👍

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  20. startingnew
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    13 March 2018 in reply to startingnew
    Never mind i think i go it! All good 👌
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  21. Ggrand
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez.

    Thank you so much.. I am at vinnies today..Sez..oh thank you very much..finally. is it okay if I talk later this arvo.. I' sorry I can' talk now I really need to but.

    G andy..

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  22. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Guest8901

    This is turning out to be a very interesting conversation Amanda, so thankyou very much.

    I'd like to re-post what you said;

    'I don't want to confuse anyone. I am confused enough myself about it all. I don't know where one finishes and the other starts. Its just all a jumbled up mess of pain and confusion. All seemingly inter related.
    I will continue to read because I think I belong here. Or at least my psych says I do. I don't see why the fact that I remain with my abuser should invalidate me'

    I'm absolutely sure the confusion you've described is very relevant to others who're in a similar category. When focusing solely on symptoms, confusion will reign. Addressing causes and beliefs is much more productive for recovery.

    I'm not sure how you've been invalidated tbh. To my understanding, you're still exposed to a 'threat' of abuse by living with your husband. In essence, you're in the thick of it.

    I have no opinion re this because it's your choice, but to speak about symptoms from c-ptsd, you'd need to talk about 'causative' factors which influence those symptoms; current or otherwise. Would this be fare to say?

    The cycle of abuse, especially within DV relationships, IS valid and worthy of discussion re c-ptsd. If you find it too difficult to contribute to this thread, I totally understand ok. Not everyone will find it comfortable, but I'm glad you're going to continue reading.

    All my best;

    Sez

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  23. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Hi dear Karen;

    Whew! So glad you got something out of my posts; relieved actually. Posting this arvo's fine. I'm off now as my battery's pooped.

    I won't return till late or maybe tomorrow. It's been a big day at my keyboard..

    I'm eager to read your upcoming words. Please don't panic...it may never happen! :-) lol That's a MH joke btw. Not personal..

    Talk soon;

    Sez

    SN...great you ended up grasping my concept. I'm glad it wasn't about using your situation to express my interpretation. Lub lub xo

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  24. Ggrand
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez,

    I will tell you what I told my Pysch when she asked me what I actually felt..sorry not word for word but close.

    Imagine your 3-4 years old and your taken to the city with mum and dad shopping. All of a sudden your on your own your parent are no where around you now.. your lost, terrified, crying, and shaking because your so frightened, your lost and don't know what to do, The people around you are pointing at you, grabbing you to take you, yelling at you. This feeling is what I live with daily. I have gone without food or drinks for days because I am to frightened to go to the shops, when I get there, I'll walk in and 9 out of 10, I leave with nothing but tears, everything is to overwhelming and frightening to accomplish...People just scare me. I have no trust at all with people ( strangers). People I know I'm very cautious around, on egg shells. I lock myself in my home 6 out of 7 days. I don't feel safe out side, when I can work myself up to walk I just want to be home, so most walks end up one house down.. I am having no counciling for this atm, because only my last appointment 1 felt safe enough to start to disclose my life. Which put me back down into my hell hard place..

    When I read your response, my first reaction was finally someone knows, understands my hurt, pain loneliness constant fear and tears from not knowing who I am and how to live.., yes if I was looking at me from someone else, I would say I am an adult with the emotions, thoughts, actions of a small child....

    I really do appreciate you so much for that.. I have with much sadness accepted that this and will reamain my life, I don't know anymore how to change me and if it's possible at all. But if it is possible I would do absolutely anything to change me..Sez I just want some peace...

    Im sorry if I wrote to long or not what your asking me for, but I needed to put this out there because you know..

    Karen.

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  25. Just Sara
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    13 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Dear Karen;

    Your post was extremely soulful to read as you described a heartbreaking analogy to your therapist. What you told her makes perfect sense to me.

    Those of us who've experienced in childhood - toxic parenting, violence, abandonment, betrayal and/or sexual assault; a plethora of traumatic events piled up on top of each other, can be trapped within our little minds until we find insight, information, courage and the will to venture out one tiny step at a time.

    Our patterns of behaviour were developed a very long time ago. They're based on surviving life, not living it.

    With c-ptsd, traumatic experiences are so prevalent, it's daunting to think we got thru it at all. But...we have. And that's important to remember, because let's face it.. we're really great at surviving!

    Compared to what we've gone thru, recovery's a much better option wouldn't you agree?

    You'll get the peace you seek. It might not be as quickly as you'd like, but it WILL happen..

    Sit quietly in a room you consider safe. Take a slow, deep breath and look around the room; is there anything or anyone that can harm you? No? Look again and breathe, are you physically ok? Yes? Do you have control of your immediate environment? Yes? Can anything occur without you saying so for one moment in time? No? Look at where you're at; Karen...you're safe! You're really and truly safe.. maybe for the first time. And guess what? You're alone. :-)

    Now you know what it feels like. One moment of true peace.. a blessing. Give yourself a hug, because this is the first day of the rest of your life.

    Take care;

    Sez

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  26. Ggrand
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    14 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Dear Sez.

    It took quite a long time to write my post out because as I was doing so I completely lost my hold on my emotions and cried so hard, remembering the pain I get when trying to do those things I mentioned and just how pathetic my life has been/is and how I've had to try to live it.

    The hurt or pain, I go to at times is undescribable, The depth of that pain is soul searing when I'm thrown into it by triggers.

    Sez I agree that recovery is a far better option compared to what we've been through, but it's something I had given up on a long time again,

    You say I will get the peace that I seek, that it will take time, I am willing to try no matter how much time it takes to get that peace.

    Thank you Sez, I did what you told me to do, it took quite a number of tries before I managed to do that properly, I'm sure I did it properly because for a moment, my mind heard something it hasn't heard for a long time, it heard nothing, Sez my mind was quiet for a few moments.. There was nothing...My tears are falling again as I write this.

    Sez, your last sentence is daunting to me. I had accepted that I would never have a peaceful mind. Now I'm confused.

    Grandy

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  27. Just Sara
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    14 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    It's ok to feel confused Karen;

    When you consider our minds were 'conditioned' to think a certain way, it's not going to be an overnight success unlearning everything.

    Those few moments of 'nothing' you felt was a glaring success of biblical proportions! Don't you want more of that?

    My last comment;

    "This is the first day of the rest of your life!"

    I said this out loud after my first moment of peace; it was like a re-birth. I saw it as a 'do-over' opportunity with light at the end of the tunnel.

    What you're probably feeling is the precipice between yesterday and today; the unknown gap from slowly dying, to slowly healing. Your mind was made up, so challenging that is bound to cause conflict.

    My life prior to 5 was so traumatic, people still talk about it. Those yrs were a prime developmental stage as an infant and what I learned stayed affected what I learned later on. As baby's don't have language, they experience the world as tactile feelings in their bodies and express them either internally or externally like screaming.

    When people with c-ptsd go thru enormous panic/pain/fear, it can, but not always, be a flashback to infancy. At least it was for me. I still have one memory from 18 months old that took yrs of therapy, to understand it caused major skewed beliefs within my subconscious.

    I only uncovered how to let it go last yr, and that was by accident. The underlying issues were abandonment, betrayal, loss, grief and internalised anger. I was a tiny little girl. How could I possibly know how to get over it by myself? I did learn from it though unfortunately. I carried those beliefs into every decision I ever made.

    Now I'm here..

    Who would've thought I'd still be alive, let alone a peer supporter on BB? Miracles do happen!

    Keeping the faith;

    Sez

    4 people found this helpful
  28. Ggrand
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    5768 posts
    14 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sara,

    I'm really sorry that you also had a horrid childhood, and later on as well. Sorry Sez. I've been writing and rewriting but can't think very well today..Silly as this might sound. I burnt some toast this morning..That all I did..

    I'll try again tonight, I seem to feel better of a night when it dark..

    Karen

    2 people found this helpful
  29. Ggrand
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    5768 posts
    15 March 2018 in reply to Just Sara

    Hello Sez,

    Thank you for your reply Sez. To answer your question..Yes I do want more of it... I managed to find that little bit of quiet, really early this morning, it was dark, I cannot get it back all day..I've tried do the little excercise several times today and cannot do it.. I got triggered this morning, they bring me down I tried to get the quiet back but no. They are in my head instead, telling me how stupid I am for burning the toast.

    When I get flash backs they are so real, so unbelievably frightening, I really don't want to go here atm, the deepest of all depth is reached nearly instantly with flashback for me.. Triggers are everywhere for me, TV is only for DVDs, Radio stays off, no music except Meditation/mindfulness apps, I burnt some toast this morning, I won't go into details of what happened when I burnt the toast but my parents made sure I never burnt toast again in a hurry.The instant fear that I felt when the toast burnt has controlled my whole day today,just laying around, hiding, crying, feeling useless, scared....

    I have not that I can remember ever had anger towards anyone, only once and that once taught me never to have it again, I was only around 4 years old but can remember so vividly that time of temper/anger...

    You have a great insight to your mental health, I admire you for you hard work you put into achieving a better understanding of mental health..

    I can't make myself do anything that I don't want to do, This is hard to expain, I'm so used to been ordered , what, when, where and why to do things, that I cannot do things that need doing because, I don't know how to..it's confusing and nobody is telling/ordering me to do so..

    Again your last sentence, this time is of a great achievement in your life and it's yours you achieved it..I have achieved nothing in my life..What a waste I feel I am to society, the world.

    Karen.

    3 people found this helpful
  30. Just Sara
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    3258 posts
    15 March 2018 in reply to Ggrand

    Hi Grandy;

    I'm thinking it's best if I continue this conversation on your thread as it's very personal. I'm going there now to post ok.

    Talk soon;

    Sez

    3 people found this helpful

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