I am really liking the censored expletives actually, because it just draws more attention to them than if they were set free.

I think I like shiny and new just as much as anyone at the centre of that particular bell curve. It spurs the momentum when in the middle of a process. Much like keeping a coin spinning on a table for as long as possible with gentle nudges. Or even inspires me to pick something up again, if only for a moment. I don't get caught up in it though, to the point where I'm constantly buying things. That just doesn't make sense.

My new job gets me out of the house but the environment doesn't really encourage socialising. Everyone eats at their desks on their own. The only reason someone talks to you is because they want something. I don't actually like my job. It's an office, desk job, which I dislike, I'm more of a hands-on person, it doesn't stimulate my brain, which I don't like, plus sitting all day actually makes my knee ache, had surgery on it and it hasn't been quite the same...But, it is a means to an end. So, I put up with it. Granted, it's been two weeks and they have been turbulent, but it has coincided with some new meds. So, I'm treating myself like an experiment.

So, I'm just trudging along. I don't know, maybe the big headphones and the sunnies don't really make one seem approachable,except to people trying to sell you subscriptions.

I was out the other day and saw someone with the same headphones, and I thought, conversation starter? Then I realised, they want to listen to music, and I want to listen to music so...

It's the best thing when someone truly appreciates you, I think.

I'm glad I made you smile

A valid point, about the expletives. I'm a fan of them in various formats. :)

Nothing wrong with shiny new things, but I think people get a bit too caught up in keeping up with the Joneses. If it's genuinely going to enhance your life, sure. But I've been going minimalist lately (then discovered it's actually a thing that's gaining popularity), getting rid of a lot of stuff, and putting a stop to random impulse buying. Which doesn't mean I don't buy anything, I just stop first and ask myself if I'm really going to use or enjoy it.

I found I had so much clutter around the place it was making me kind of miserable. Why have a bunch of junk you use once and it just collects dust? You can't move around it, you have to clean it or shuffle it around to find things. Nope. I still have a lot of work to do on it, but I've given away heaps of things I wasn't using, and thrown out old favourite things that just aren't in good enough shape to use any more. It's quite freeing.

It does sound like your job is a bit unsatisfying. Maybe once you settle in with your meds you could look at changing to something else? Doesn't have to be fancy, but something you get a little bit of pleasure out of. If you're already struggling with work/life balance, feeling depressed and lonely, spending a heap of hours somewhere that makes you feel even more isolated isn't great. Working in a shop has its drawbacks, but it's pretty good on a social level.

Forgive me, but I was faintly amused when you said you were treating yourself like an experiment. Sounds so much like something I'd say. Even when I first started hanging out with my other half (we were friends before we were anything else), I called it a social experiment, and him my project.

Maybe headphones aren't the best conversation starter. But at least you're socially aware... Leaving people who want to be alone to their business is just as crucial to making friends as spotting the ones who want company, I think. Just a thought.

Settled in with an episode of Duckman, now, and the company of one of my wee birdies (who is sitting atop my office door having a preen).

Ahaha, yes, expletives add colour to the conversation.

Ah, yup. I would rather do the research and get something that I would make full use of. Minimalist is a big thing. As an art movement, when it comes to running shoes, living life...I have subscribed to it for a while. A couple of years ago I also thought through the sentimentality we put on inanimate objects, leading us to hold onto it or keep it stowed away somewhere, where you never really use it. Of course, until you find it again and go through the same process. I got rid of that trait, didn't really need it and as you said, just adds to the clutter. The sentiment is always there, the object doesn't have to be. So, all the stuff I need fits in my suitcase at the moment. Except for all the books I own. I have a library that I had to leave in Aus, which I will bring over to wherever it is that I end up in this world.

I kind of expected it to be unsatisfying, considering it was well out of any area of interest of mine. But, it is hard to find a job here, plus it may actually help me move to Canada as a resident rather than a student, which will help with the bill associated with studying. So, I have reasons to put up with it. It occupies my brain, just doesnt't challenge it. I have math for that. I wouldn't say I feel more isolated, just that it isn't a social environment. Having said that, I have seen and been through worse environments when it comes to work.

No forgiveness necessary, nothing wrong with a little self experimentation. How else do we learn really? Seems like your social experiment was a success after all.

I agree, headphones aren't the best conversation starter. I also wonder how I would feel if someone came up t me randomly and started talking to me, if I looked like I wanted company and wasn't wearing my headphones. I mean, the absence of company doesn't necessarily equate to wanting company, you know?

You own birds? I haven't had the best track record with birds...I've been attacked and ***t on...And they always like sitting in my hair until they realise it isn't a nest and start flapping about caught up in all of it. I never know if I'm more harassed by that situation or the bird is. I do get caught up watching them in flight, mainly because I wish I could fly. It actually saddens me a little that even if I modified myself genetically to just grow wings, I wouldn't be aerodynamic enough or have the muscular capacity/knowledge to use them

Living on my own, I always had a bit of a minimalist thing going on. Each time I found myself living with a partner, crap kept piling up. I have a particular hatred of cleaning, and mountains of junk just add to the sense of being overwhelmed by domestic drudgery. It became a surprisingly big factor in my last break-up. To him, if the surfaces were full, stuff went on the floor, including things I'd just tidied up and he decided to move when looking for something. The clutter and the futility of cleaning and the general disrespect in that area were just overwhelming. So you can imagine there was a certain renewed vigour to my need to pare back junk when the relationship ended. That said, still got tonnes of books. Those I will always have a use for. Most of the belongings I have left that aren't utilitarian are for feeding my mind and creativity, and for general self-expression.

I guess your job is just a calculated step, then. You put your head down and bull through it in the knowledge it is finite and fits your end goals. I can understand that.

And yes, my social experiment was a brilliant success. I had a sense of his quality as a person, but he turned out even better than I expected. My friends and family are good in their way, but it's so inconstant and they get so caught up in their own stuff. He's the one person who has been consistently there and really hearing me, and his friendship changed everything for me. I didn't feel like a shade any more, like someone only half in the living world. I was in a place of really feeling like I didn't exist to anyone but myself, or at least in more than a distant, ethereal kind of way. He's been a huge source of strength for me... and it certainly doesn't hurt that he's extraordinarily attractive.

As you say, not having company and wanting it aren't the same thing. I quite often sit in a coffee shop and have a cappuccino by myself; I don't want to be approached, unless it's by someone bringing me more coffee. But it's not too hard to spot the difference between someone comfortable in their own space and someone who really just wants to be seen.

I have two birds. To be frank, they poop on me all the time, and I've had my share of pecks. Even so, I adore the little mischief makers. You haven't lived until you've woken up with a little bird standing on one foot on the tip of your nose, wobbling about because even though he's small, he's not that small relative to a human nose.

Ugh, I'm with you on that one, cleaning is a horrible activity. I can understand the liberation you feel coming out of that. I am, in general a messy person, but, I can adapt. If I'm living with a clean person, I clean more, with a messy person...so much mess around that I don't care for a while. I suppose because there's no need to think about it if who you're living with doesn't complain.

It is a calculated step. There was a checklist in my head, and I've been ticking things off in spite of this depression. I just don't like half-***ing anything, because I always know that I could have done better, so I get trapped in that cycle of "don't give yourself something else to regret" and "I can't"

You described perfectly how I feel right now. I think on some previous posts I have described it somewhat similarly. I'm happy for you that there is someone who helps you get back your substance.

Yea, I suppose if you people watch, you could notice. I tend to use my imagination to change my surroundings rather than watching them.

Don't get me wrong, I do like birds, I'm an animal lover in general. I've just been attacked by the big ones. Cockatoos, African Grey, and the magpies, crows...I used to own budgies. Well, the family. I used to come home from school at times and they would all be sitting squeezed up together making this huge noise, and immediately stop when they noticed me watching. They were totally talking about us humans. I have woken up with a dog on my face...does that count?

My Nan, had this Alsatian who, loved me as a growing pup, but then hated me afterward. I couldn't understand it. She used to play mind games with me. Attack me one minute then in the next jump on my bed while I was reading and lean on me. And she watched my every movement. while laying there. I didn't want to make any sudden movements. And every morning she would come around and like the palm of my hand, I was convinced that she was tasting me. I've never met a vindictive cow. That's something.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no neat freak, but when you're the only one who cleans and the other person undoes everything you do the minute you do it, the line has to be drawn. My weird work hours really take the stuffing out of me, so the last thing I want to do is have to unbury every surface I have to use, or wash dishes before I can cook or even have a bowl of cereal. I love cooking when I can muster the energy, but every time I wanted to do it, there was this mountain of mess to clean up get to the stove or have clean utensils. It was really sucking the life out of me.

Can't say I've shared your line of thinking about not giving yourself something else to regret, or at least not directly. I figure it's more a matter of just doing what I can toward my goals as I can handle it. I only push beyond that in situations that are utterly untenable, and it takes a lot of recovery time for each instance... Or at least I assume so. I've yet to get enough of a break from unreasonable amounts of stress to get a solid fix on what recovery really feels like.

Well, in general terms. Finally not in a crisis-ridden relationship. That's a nice change, and healing is happening that department. Most of my sense of being a shade came from my last relationship; he completely disengaged from me, and having someone in my own home treating me like I was barely there was what took it to that level. Nothing from outside was enough to counter it until I left.

I'm not really a fan of people watching, except to not trip over them, or avoid being approached in general public situations. I dislike people for the most part; but I'm decent at analysing what I see when I care to look.

I think dog on face counts. Not the Alsation, I hope? You wouldn't wake up happy with a dog that size on you. Least of all developing a taste for human flesh...

I'm in bed now, with a little bird snuggled against my face, and his head under his wing. Dunno about vindictive cows, but I wouldn't have even a friendly one in bed with me. Bird's just fine, thanks.

No, I understand. The mess and clutter puts you off, especially if you have to wash things to cook with only to wash them again an hour later. I don't particularly like cooking, or food in general. Eating is a chore I must complete. So, when it gets messy...I don't bother really.

I can't actually recall a time which I would consider "recovery." I'm thinking but not finding. I don't have something to compare it to. I suppose what you described above draws that connection of your past catching up to you when you know that you should be focusing on the present, what you have now. It is good that you are aware that there is some healing happening in an aspect of your life, so not all of it is bad. Right? Again, it is admirable that feeling the way you did, you were able to sort of legitimize yourself and leave the bad situation., physically if not yet emotionally.

People watching isn't for me either. The only people I do watch are my friends, because you learn a lot from their actions and their silence. People, in general, I dislike also, but I think it's because I don't value the same things as the majority does, from what I have seen.

Hah, no, the Alsatian was more the "growl and snap me into a corner and spend 15 minutes barking and snarling at me before calmly walking away as soon as someone else came into the room" type. This dog was a lovely dog. She was medium sized, so a bit smaller than an Alsatian. Let's be honest, it was less about me and more about getting into the warm spot on my bed. It was still love.

I am currently imagining the life version of tweety (a canary) sitting on the top bit of your face, as that is the only part of you that I have reference for. A cow would certainly ruin the sleeping experience...though for insomniacs, what more could happen really?

I was just wondering if you watched the matrix? I was thinking earlier, what if both pills were taken at the same time?

Great advice Joelle.

Have you considered looking up those meeting place groups for people with depression and anxiety? Perhaps you might meet someone through there to talk with in person. It does help to unload sometimes. I do like Joelle's idea though, that has helped me in the past.

I hope you get some good sleep soon xx

Hm, writing stuff down might be handy (when I have the energy for it). Have done similar before. Mum used to write her problems out as letters to the relevant people (not to actually be sent), so she could look at a thing from the different angles that come with whatever registers or mental filters you may use for communicating with each different person.

Not sure I want to do a meeting thing in person to be honest, though it is a valid idea. I like the anonymity of online communication, and the limited social energy and lack of fuel money needed for it. Wandering into Beyond Blue was about all I had in me as far as joining a new community. Might keep it on the backburner in case of extreme necessity.

Managed about two hours' sleep last night. Not expecting a lot tonight, will be up before the sun again. Tomorrow night, hopefully.

Coming back to that last lengthy post... I really can't get my head around the idea of eating as a chore. I'm a bit of a foodie, personally. I figure eating is necessary, so may as well enjoy it. And there are so many great foods out there. Especially cheese.

Admittedly I have a bit of a tenuous grasp on the concept of recovery, at this point. But I wasn't always depressed, and it was specifically triggered and exacerbated over years, so there's some chance I won't always be this way with that situation behind me. It's that tree that took years to grow, taking just as long to rot now I've chopped it down. I'm raising all the birdies that were in the tree, because oops... Hm, seem to have lost track of my analogy. But birds.

Sounds like you're still pretty caught up with your parents and thus the catalyst for your depression, and you're in a similar sort of phase to where I was before leaving my ex. You know what's wrong and what you need to do, but there isn't an instant fix. I can say that though I'm going through a pretty rough patch at the moment, leaving that situation definitely and immediately had a positive impact. Just having some space, and no-one undoing everything I cleaned up was a start. Though my good moods wouldn't last as long as I'd have liked, they started existing again. I had moments when I wasn't choking on misery, and that was better than I'd done in a long time. There's still a lot of work to do, and what I've had to push through seriously sucked, but I think you have the same sort of grunt I do to push through that anyway and come out the other side.

I smiled at your comment that you don't value the same things the majority does. Sounds awfully familiar. We don't need to worry too much about the majority, except in a more general sense, like not ramming their cars when they're in the way and stuff, tempting though it is.

That Alsation sounds like all kinds of fun. Dad's last dog wouldn't let anyone but Dad near him, but other than that, I haven't had much trouble with animals. Most of them are pretty agreeable if you're nice to them. Birds are a bit more temperamental. My youngest one is fiesty and often latches onto my finger when he doesn't want to go to bed. The other one is pretty chilled, and your picture of Tweety on my face isn't too far off the mark. He often runs about on my face in the morning (which is why I'm glad he's not a cow... and also cow pats in bed would not be nice).

Wrote a proper response to your last big post, Joelle, but it's disappeared for now. Though I didn't get to the Matrix question... I think both pills would be equal to the cognitive dissonance we are experiencing now, living in something that seems foggy and unreal, seeing what's really there (all the unravelling threads and hidden motivations and strings being pulled behind that which is immediately present), being told everything's rosy by those who can't see what we see... It's confusing and feels s***.

Anyway, thanks for the ideas and support, both of you. Hope you're feeling a bit better and haven't developed the flu, Joelle, and Carol, noticed on the other thread you were having a better day with your headache recently. Hopefully that trend continues.

Blue.

Hey Blue,

I have to apologise, I have little energy at the moment, so this may not be the longest reply. I wrote a couple of other posts and I bottomed out when I got to yours, so sorry. The last 4 weeks have felt like crash after crash after crash. There's a 2-3 day turnover. Right now, just feeling really bad. With regard to my parents. They are definitely exacerbating everything. But, this is my situation and have to push through for at least 6 months...And now that's all I can think about :(

ugh...we took both pills...

I'll get back to you Blue. I hope you get some good quality sleep. I may not be fully functional, but if you need support, you can just prop me up somewhere and lean on me. No worries.

No apologies necessary, old bean. It's not like I don't understand what you're going through. Still crashing pretty frequently, myself. It's only getting less severe because my baseline mood is so poor at this point, I don't have half as far to fall. It sucks, but I do find it easier to handle than the wild highs and lows.

One advantage you do have is a rough timeline for getting out of your situation. It's still unfair that you're struggling as you are, but knowing you think somewhat like I do, having an idea of how and when you can unbury yourself from it helps a decent amount. That you recognise and work at that process in spite of how hard it is speaks volumes about your quality of character.

Got a reasonable sleep last night. Not enough to bounce back from the many nights without, of course, but hopefully enough to hold off the next crash for a while. If I prop you up, it won't be to lean on, but so you can have pudding without wearing it. :)

Hey Blue...

Just, thank you. Feeling like I'm primed for a good cry and your post made me a little tearful. Because I was reminded that I have at least one person who is on my side. And you think so well of me.

In terms of sleep, I'm glad you got a bit more. It always helps to have that under your belt when you face the day.

Yes! Save the pudding!

I have to get on with my day so putting on that mask. It used to fit my face you know, but now, just doesn't sit right.

Masks suck (unless they're for Cosplay). Just remember you get to take it off again. Here, you are in a safe space to be yourself - someone I do indeed think well of. I know how damn hard it is to push yourself when you're under so much pressure, and how much of a battle it is with depression clawing at you. ​But you're taking charge and fighting the good fight even so, and I respect that. I am definitely on your side.

Still very tired, but today hasn't been a bad day, and I'm not working tomorrow. Also I have had sushi, and my stomach is happy.

Consider the pudding saved. There's a selection of chocolate, rice pudding with a dash of nutmeg on top, or sticky date. Mmm, pudding. (*drool*)

Hey Blue...

I came home last night and I opened up BeyondBlue, and after reading these posts I just couldn't reply. I couldn't bear being awake anymore. I ate because I had to take my meds but apart from that I just went to bed and that was it.

I'm not doing well, I feel like I'm crumbling on the inside. All that resolve you tell me you see that I have, I'm so blind to it. And I thought about what you posted earlier, about wanting to say things but didn't want it to be public and if you did write it down, it would probably be deleted or censored. That's where my headspace is at right now.

I'm glad you got some sleep, I do hope you are able to get some rest. Thanks for checking up on me.

If your meds are encouraging you to eat, they're doing something right. As for the rest, you're entitled to your "**** it" moments. Taking care of yourself has to come first.

I see your resolve because I know exactly what you're going through, and yet you keep putting one foot in front of the other and doggedly continuing on, just as I do. It's in these quiet moments alone that everything really comes crashing down for us, and somehow we pick ourselves up and get on with it the next day. There are times I don't see my own strength either; that's when it helps to have an objective observer.

You'll excuse my belated reply, I hope. Very busy day, which started with oversleeping, so haven't had a lot of time to be online.

It's not a great headspace to be in, I know, feeling like you can't say what you need to say, especially when there are people right in front of you who would gladly listen and support you. One thing 7 Cups has over Beyond Blue is the ability to message other members privately. I guess here it's regarded as a safety thing to avoid bad advice or accidental harm being done where it can't be controlled.

Anyway, hope today is treating you better than yesterday. Pudding still awaits.

Yea, I guess you could look at it that way. I know I should eat. It's strange to be hungry but have no appetite for food.

I guess I do keep getting back up huh? Although, if I were being honest, lately my thoughts have been to just succumb. I have this sort of algorithmic process in my head when I reach low points in my life. Do I want to _____, yes or no? Cut through all the emotional bull**** and find out, deep down, yes or no? Consequences for either answer will always be there, but I make my decision, I deal with it. I've been asking this question more and more of myself recently. The other day, I found myself thinking about the big one again. Now, I've visited this place a few times. And the consequences for yes are unknown for me but, would be known for the people I know. And I, at a point of desperation, like I'm kneeling before the universe around me (because this is where I am; on my knees), wanted someone to give me permission to say yes. I told my counsellor this and she suggested I bring it up with my psychiatrist, who I am thoroughly afraid to tell because worst case scenario of being hospitalized plays in my head. I know I don't want to be trapped in a hospital. I know I won't act on it. I just want it to stop, and that is the guaranteed way it will. Does that make sense? I mean I can't say outright what I want to say, but I'm sure you'll understand.

I don't mind the belated reply, there is no schedule really. And you're right, I was just thinking today that there should be a group chat or something on this site. I suppose it is harder to contain.

I'm supposed to be studying math, my right kidney hurts for some reason, maybe I need more water, or it's referred pain...And I have the thought of seeing a psychiatrist and an orthopedic surgeon to cradle me.

Maybe I'll just place my forehead on this table and have that pudding.

Is it good that you slept in? I mean, you got to sleep...how are you?

This post may or may not see the light of day, and if it does, it may not last long, but I'm not one to mince words. Lord knows you're not the only one who thinks of succumbing. So very many times, and there will be plenty more to come. I know I won't do it. I have my responsibilities, my birds and my partner whom I love with everything in me. But somehow my crashes don't seem quite so bad when I admit to myself I don't really want to live. I don't see a huge amount of point to it, nor any meaning to my existence. Even if I were some amazing hero saving millions of lives, it's just more little specks that mean no more than I do. But if I try to end it, what then? I could potentially botch it and end up worse off and a massive burden on my loved ones instead. And if I get it right, I create suffering. So I continue on. I try to keep the blinkers on to some extent, focus on my own functionality and enjoyment of little things, and making life suck a bit less for those I care about. But being honest with myself about it helps, and I am thankful I can be honest with my partner about these thing, too. He doesn't try to put rose coloured glasses on me, or make me feel guilty for feeling the way I do. He just supports me, and tries to help me resolve the things that are making it all seem too hard.

I sincerely doubt you'd be locked up for thinking that way or expressing it to a psychiatrist. It's not at all uncommon, I shouldn't think. You said you know you won't act on it, and nor will I, but I take comfort in the knowledge that that is my choice and not something forced upon me. No-one but me can make me live, and no-one but me chooses how I live or what I think about it. I'm all ****ed up, but at least I can own that, and it keeps me going.

Yes, sleeping in was a good thing. I wasn't late for work, and that's all I needed. Sleep was ruined today though, and I'm ****ed off, considering rest is what days off are for. Will try for a nap later, but I have things to do within business hours so no point going back to bed now. I think the above paragraphs probably give you an idea of my state of mind lately, so yeah, been better. But if it comes to it, I've been worse.

Yea, I don't actually value my own existence. Like you, I know I'm a speck. But, I don't have responsibilities, really. Just people who, If I were to succeed, might miss me. Yes, I would create suffering but it comes down to my suffering for their peace of mind, or their suffering to end mine. I haven't yet blamed anyone for my continued existence, because it is ultimately my choice but I wonder if anyone would ever tell me to let go. I am glad you have such a supportive partner and a realistic one, truly.

Didn't get locked up, just got a higher dosage of meds. It was an irrational thought, I know, but when the anxiety kicks in, it's like a high frequency wave, up and down quick-pace, of emotion and no logic whatsoever. On different note, I did find that my knees bend backward too much and as a result the bone-side of my patellae are a bit shredded, and I'm not allowed to climb stairs or do squats. Squats I'm not too fussed about, squatting 70 kilos was as far as I was going to get with that...but where I work, or will be transferred to, only has stairs, so, potentially problematic.

I suppose you should be encouraged knowing that you have been worse. I know I have been worssee too, but it feels like I'm plummeting back to that place. It was very hard to actually formulate words today for the psych. Was supposed to write some stuff down but...Sometimes, even doing nothing expends too much energy.

Got some coffee and some pudding going on. Prep for lectures.

On a side note that I forgot to mention earlier, I thought about you earlier today when I saw this little bird fly down and land on the ground and started hopping along.

From what you've said so far, I see you at the beginning of something. You've only recently started breaking free of the expectations of others, forging a path of your own. It's not unlike my own undertaking to untangle myself from my last relationship. You have a direction, a plan, some idea of how and when you can be free. It's damn hard now, I know, but the early stages of a journey like that are always the hardest, but they're also the most rewarding. This is where you get to take charge, and **** everyone and what they want from you. For my part, I would hate to see your journey end when you're just starting to find yourself. And from the perspective of some slob on the Internet you've been of significant help to, I think you have a lot to offer those you let close to you.

I'm glad you discussed your train of thought with your psychiatrist. It really does help to have an objective voice to back you up and give you the logic you're missing, when you're down or in panic mode.

The thing with stairs does not sound fun at all. Wish I knew what to suggest, there.

Try and remember that depression is cyclical. I have trouble with that at times, myself, but I'm coming to accept sometimes I'm just going to come crashing down. At the moment my struggle is not having a timeline for fixing my situation re messed up sleep, or any certainty the ideas I've had so far will work. Are you likewise feeling like you have no measurable change at the moment, or a reasonably near time to expect the next step along the way to be complete? I found with parting ways with the ex, things like filling my house with things that asserted my personality on the space, and removing things from the harder parts of my life helped quite a bit in those drawn out periods between real milestones. Maybe you need to find some tangible way of expressing the change in yourself and your life that you're undergoing? I don't mean the overarching goal of your degree or anything that's a work in progress, but a thing you can have and feel good about right now, that you can look at and see as a mark of your steps in the right direction.

Coffee and pudding sounds good. And thanks for telling me about the bird, that got a smile out of me. There's not really such thing as a bird I don't like.