Hi Everybody

This is only the basic dictionary definition...

"Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention on the present. When you're mindful, you observe your thoughts and feelings from a distance without judging them good or bad. Instead of letting your life pass you by, mindfulness means living in the moment without judgement"

• Please be as blunt you wish....If you dont have an idea about mindfulness it would be great if you could let us know
• If mindfulness hasnt worked/or is too broad a concept for you it would great if you can let us know your thoughts too
• If mindfulness has helped you, please help others to help themselves by posting how you have embraced this mindset

It goes without saying that the forums are a judgement free zone and I really hope that everyone can jump in and have their say

Your input is highly valued no matter how you respond to this topic. There are no experts here...New Posters are Most Welcome!!

My Kindest Thoughts

Paul

Hi Paul

Thanks for starting this new thread. When I was in the worst throes of my anxiety I used mindfulness to calm my mind and the many thoughts going through it. I used mindfulness to be more appreciative of what I was feeling, smelling, seeing etc at that moment. So if I was walking through a park it meant observing the sound my shoes made on the ground/on leaves or observing my breath or smelling the air.

It did work when my normal breathing exercises were not making a difference. It was nice to force a break in my mind and be focused on the detail of the present.

Look forward to hearing from others.

Blue Jane

Good one Paul,

i have tried a few times, works better when I'm not trying so hard. Am reading a book about it at the moment. So will come back to this when I have learnt a little more.

cmf

Hi Paul,

Good topic!

The way I was intoduced to mindfulness was this...

Choose an object that appeals to you. Hold it in your hand. Focus solely on the object in your hand and block out everything else.

Feel the weight of it. Turn it. Shake it. Touch it. Smell it. What does it feel like? How does it smell? What colours can you see it it? What textures? What temperature is it? List every minute detail of it in your mind.

I was told do do this whenever I was overwhelmed. To ground me in the present and block of painful thoughts. Sometimes I find myself picking up and object in a shop and people look at me like I'm nuts. But it helps me sometimes. Just to have some quiet in my head.

Hi Paul,

Great thread idea 😊 I'm glad so many of you are benefiting and/or exploring mindfulness.

I feel as though I'm in the minority here but I've personally found that mindfulness isn't really for me. Maybe my brain is wired weirdly or something but I've found that I actually often felt worst afterwards. I'm not entirely sure why.

One of the core symptoms of my depression is feeling listless and "blah", and I found that mindfulness only helped exacerbate the pre-existing listlessness in me. Hence why I no longer practice mindfulness.

One of my old psychs switched it up with art therapy, which suited me a lot better. I tend to respond better to creative outlets but that's just me. I guess we are all a little different.

Now, I'm obviously only speaking for myself. I realise other people swear by mindfulness, and it has greatly improved the quality of many lives. Power to you guys. If it works for you, keep at it.

Dottie x

Hi Paul,

The subject is new to me. I must say I read and re-read the definition a dozen times. It's a powerful process to comprehend, however the thing that mostly jumps out to me is that there are three (3) statements. One could argue the definition is to broad? For example the last sentence "Instead of letting your life pass you by, mindfulness means living in the moment without judgement", is this not how a small child behaves? They live in the moment. So you could say there is an element of child like behaviour involved. (And whats wrong with having fun?)

Let me post it again, it's a mouth full :) (Or mind full) :)

"Mindfulness is a state of active, open attention on the present. When you're mindful, you observe your thoughts and feelings from a distance without judging them good or bad. Instead of letting your life pass you by, mindfulness means living in the moment without judgement"

So you focus on the present while at the same time observe your thoughts and feelings (from a distance) without judging them good or bad. Hmmm (Whilst being child like) Hmmm ???

Not sure I can do it. LOL Is it like rubbing your belly and tapping your head at the same time?

So it is obviously some state of mind, that honestly I don't totally understand. The only thing that comes to my mind, is it might be likened to meditation.

I have personally studied Hatha Yoga and one of the Poses (I think they were called) was to stare at a candle flame for some minutes, then close your eyes and watch that same candle flame dance in your minds eye.

Interesting topic, thanks.

IF

Hey Blue Jane, CMF, Quercus.....thanks for posting and your take on how you benefit and understand mindfulness. Great stuff that you have success with this mindset

Hey Dottie and IF.....thanks for posting too....Great to have your opinions on this mindset. It can be a broad term which is similar to 'grounding ourselves' in the moment instead of our thoughts going into the anxious or catastrophising mode.

You are not in the minority Dottie...Ive seen this term used a lot on the forums without a reference point. There seems to be many people who feel similar to IF and yourself.

Ive been using grounding therapy for years and slowly getting a handle on mindfulness. It seems similar

my kindest. Paul

I was introduced to the practice of mindfulness many years ago while living in Asia. In the East, it is taken for granted that the mind can be trained and controlled...something I would have loved to hear when I grew up in the West, struggling with PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, Dissociation etc...

As many of you already know, I have been a staunch advocate for mindfulness around the forums. It saved my life.

Being in the here and now involve all 5 senses to be alert. When this happens, the mind becomes quiet and oblivious to its own activity. Only the involuntary function remains (heartbeat, breathing and all bodily processes are maintained). Very young children and animals can do this switching off naturally. Individual life experience causes us to lose track of this functioning at root level. Anything we become engrossed in (watching a good thriller, reading a captivating book, rapture in music or dance, playing sports etc...) leaves no space for anything else. The rest of the world temporarily disappears. We lose awareness of time and space. It can be applied to work, play or just intense observation. Practicing mindfulness produces this intensity of action or observation on demand. We become in charge of the mind instead of the mind controlling us.

Mindfulness is the cultivation of this fully-in-the-moment mode. When mastered (not easy), it is the best antidote ever to overthinking. At its best, it is the mind watching itself, registering each thought without holding on to it, like watching passing clouds over a clear sky. When this happens, there is detachment. Pure objectivity without emotions getting in the way. Mindfulness is the art of developing this watcher within.

I won't lie to you...training the mind that has been allowed to run amok over many years is like taming any wild animal. It must be done very carefully because it can easily backfire. Strongly intend not to think of anything you would normally be unlikely to think of and watch your mind rebel and do exactly the opposite.

Like with all training, daily and persistent practice is the way to go, first with easy things or actions to focus fully on. Gradually increasing difficulty and duration. Keeping in mind that it is more demanding than building up a seldom/never used muscle. Because the untrained mind has acquired autonomy and rulership. Dictators don't relinquish power easily and patience is not a mentally ill person's best asset.

Hey Paul,

Thanks for the feedback and open mindedness. I mean, anxiety isn't really a huge problem for me personally (depression "dominant" through and through in my case). If I'm dwelling on something, I tend to reason with myself if that makes any sense.

So I don't feel that I necessarily have anything to "ground." But hey, each to their own. I'll leave the mindfulness to you guys- awesome that it helps some of you guys - and I'll just stick to my art and music 😉 Thanks again.

Dottie x

Hello Starwolf and thankyou for your knowledge and experience on mindfulness.

You have a gift of keeping things simple yet informative.

Starwolf Said "We become in charge of the mind instead of the mind controlling us" and "Mindfulness is the art of developing this watcher within"

I will be saving this post to my 'Coping Folder' Star and thanks again. I was hoping you would help out:-)

Hey Dottie: Your voice here is appreciated because there are a ton of people here that are lost on Mindfulness. I am glad you posted because its great to hear from the people that are like me and find it a new and broad topic

Just fyi....Grounding is just grounding ourselves in the moment so our thoughts (even depression) dont go back into the past and repeat old behaviours. Thanks again Dottie...I have and always will be a fan of how you have helped so many people with your caring yet intelligent advice. Paulx

Hi Paul,

Thank you, you're very generous with your compliments. Keep up your famous "kind and gentle" thing 😊

Dottie x

Thank you Paul.

For those game enough to attempt the "mind watching itself" practice, please note that the only way to succeed is to catch thoughts as they arise, BEFORE becoming entangled in them. It will then be noticed that the simple act of noticing a thought, feeling, emotion as it pops up makes it temporarily vanish (be sure it will come back !). Emotions cannot cohabit with the watcher. At first, it is best practiced with commonplace, everyday thoughts, not the obsessive kind.

I used to turn practice into a game played with my restless, over-reactive mind...trying to pip it at the gate of awareness. Having fun with it somewhat balances the frustration of consistently being beaten to it. As we become more proficient, there is watching the space between thoughts and widening it, abiding in it. A skill like any other just particularly difficult to master.

The trouble with sitting meditation or intently observing one particular object is that the mind gets bored...so it automatically becomes distracted. Walking meditation is easier. For example going for a walk with all senses on the alert for everything we come by. Focusing on what is to be seen, touched, heard, smelled or tasted instead of being in our head with senses on automatic pilot. Whenever the mind takes over, just notice, acknowledge and return to thought free observation. Overthinking is a self-perpetuating activity. If less attention is given to it, it eventually calms down. Eventually.

It is amazing how much of Life passes us by unnoticed while we are ruminating past experiences, concocting unlikely scenarios, replaying conversations and generally torturing ourselves with a future that will probably never happen...at least not the way we imagined it would. What we must do is move on to a different object, person, situation before becoming emotionally involved with it (whether we like it or not, what it reminds us of etc...).

Much of the exhaustion felt in depression/anxiety is due to the stress of overthinking. Being fully present in the moment frees up an incredible amount of otherwise misdirected energy.

Besides, considering the mind's insistence on playing tricks on us, turning the tables on it is only fair :-)

The mind watching itself is the beginning of control and a huge step towards knowing ourselves.

Great post Star, thank you for sharing that.

Great post for a great thread.

I'm actually very interested in this topic, but also really uncertain as to whether I really understand the concept.

starwolf's comment about children doing this easily resonates with me as I remember that from my earliest memories and some of my happiest are times when I can remember lying in the grass in a paddock and seeing the ants and insects, smelling the grass and dirt, breathing the air and feeling the sun's warmth on my skin and really, truly almost being entranced by how calm and happy I was feeling.

I have experienced this in adulthood, mostly again in nature, as I feel that the peace helps me to focus my mind. I also felt a strong sense of presence in the moment when breastfeeding both of my sons.

I am really interested in trying yoga or group meditation but my social anxiety is holding me back from giving it a go! I will get there eventually 🙂

My concern with the rhetoric around mindfulness is the mention of it often as a reproach against parents' time with their children. Have you guys noticed that?

anyway, thanks for starting this thread, I am keen to learn more!

Hi fearnotpenelope!

Thanks for jumping in with your great post. I am very much like yourself with mindfulness and feeling like I have so much more to learn on the concept/meaning.

If I can say that you are amazing for actually practicing mindfulness when you mentioned you let yourself go with nature and being in the moment with those thoughts......" I feel that the peace helps me to focus my mind"

You have actually used the concept to being in a state of inner peace without the interference of any other thoughts than the moment you were in at the time........mindfulness...

You mentioned "My concern with the rhetoric around mindfulness is the mention of it
often as a reproach against parents' time with their children" I hope Starwolf can help on this as its a good point that I would love to hear her (or anyone else's) thoughts on.

(Just some background for you Penelope. I have had chronic anxiety (13 years) followed by depression for the last 21 years and take a small SSRI antidepressant every day since 1996. The depression has eased off and the bad anxiety attacks have gone but have morphed into a social anxiety)

You are a proactive person where your health is concerned and I hope you can stick around the forums. I havent done yoga but its meant to be a huge benefit to achieve greater peace and clarity. The meditation is always beneficial to low or high level anxiety conditions.

Great to have you as part of the Beyond Blue Family

my kind thoughts

Paul

Hi Starwolf

Its great to have you here and 'fill in the gaps' on the benefits of Mindfulness and thankyou as myself and many others are benefiting from your knowledge.

Starwolf Said:" It is amazing how much of Life passes us by unnoticed while we are ruminating past experiences"

and "Overthinking is a self-perpetuating activity. If less attention is given to it, it eventually calms down, eventually"

I have let much of my life pass me by unnoticed while I have been 'living' in the past even though I was trying to stay grounded in the present (with some genuinely brilliant counselors) I am still learning and am determined to get a 'handle' on mindfulness with practice of course.

Thanks Star

Paul

Just a note from Penelope for Starwolf below if you can help Star

Penelope Said: "My concern with the rhetoric around mindfulness is the mention of it
often as a reproach against parents' time with their children" I hope Starwolf can help on this as its a good point that I would love to hear her (or anyone else's) thoughts on.

Paul

Hi Penelope, good to meet you.

I wish I could answer your question but I'm not sure what is meant. I just can't find a connection between mindfulness and poor parenting. But I'm curious...could you elaborate on this ?

From my hands on experience, I believe introducing mindfulness in our way of life is actually a positive parenting asset... I'm more into practice than rhetoric. Nature's has given us a left and a right brain. Science tells us that the right brain is seldom or sparingly used. A shame that half the brain should go to waste. Developing the watcher within is a right brain activity, so a way to balance brain activity, therefore all areas of Life experience.

I saw logic in this, observed what happened when it was applied by others, liked the effects I observed and so decided to give it a go. I never looked back.

How could learning to balance and control a runaway brain have adverse effects ?

Thanks Starwolf

I like this "How could learning to balance and control a runaway brain have adverse effects"

learning to balance & control a runaway brain.....so simple yet so very effective. Paul

Great thread Paul!

I don't think I need to add to Star's words as she's summed things up well, I'd like to say one thing to Penelope though; kids are more grounding than any other thing or activity!

Though, one can be 'too' grounded. This is for Dottie and anyone who suffers with depression. That's the 'heavy' feeling that drags around with us throughout the day. We feel depleted of energy/motivation and movement is exhausting. Everything's an effort!

With anxiety, we're 'up in the air' in our heads and somewhat detached from our bodies. Grounding brings us back to earth so we acknowledge our physical environment. Has anyone driven a car a few blocks without registering they've been driving? That's mindlessness as opposed to mindfulness!!! Ha ha (Thanks Paul...good one)

So, depression causes heaviness, and anxiety causes light headedness. Getting to the middle ground seems pertinent for both yeah? If you think about it, anxiety is a way to escape situations, and depression is feeling trapped in circumstances.

In other words, carrying around a heavy burden on our shoulders without knowing how to escape, (or give it back to the person it belongs to) is one way of looking at depression.

Anxiety is not facing what frightens us for fear of uncontrollable repercussions; constantly running away out of physical harm's way.

In summary? Depression and anxiety respond to very different forms of mindfulness. In fact, being individualised is best practice. If you think of what makes you feel lighter Dottie, and what gives me a sense of connection to my environment, it's opposite ends of the same pole. Not running away, and not being held down by our fears/beliefs.

I'd really like to hear what people think about this. It's my own theory, so please be kind.

Sara x

Hi Sara and thankyou for such a great post :-)

Sara Mentioned " Has anyone driven a car a few blocks without registering they've been driving? That's mindlessness as opposed to mindfulness!!!"

Brilliant stuff Sara.....keep it coming

Best. Paul x

Hi Sara,

Thank you. I think it's possible that you have touched on something very important. Yes, if I were to be any more grounded, I would probably start sinking into the ground. I know you- and others- swear by mindfulness, and that's great if it helps you guys. Keep it up if that's the case. But I'm just not 100% sure if it's for me, that's all.

Dottie x

Hey Dottie....I am still trying to get my head around it as well. Im still using my own techniques that work until I really understand what 'it' is!

Paul

Hey Dottie and Paul, and shout-out to all reading/contributing;

I agree with you Dottie, mindfulness didn't work for me either when I was depressed, but music did! Uplifting stuff I mean, the same with TV or movies. Light classical or jazz without words took me to my happy place more than not. I figure this is a 'hybrid' of mindfulness for depression or apathy.

Sometimes I have a chat with the Universe while laying in bed. My words are quiet, genuine and humble; an instant 'feeling' of calm comes over me, but not just any calm. I feel 'balanced' and in the moment...me and God goin' at it. I have no secrets from Him, no guilt, lies or remorse, just honesty. I don't have to hide, avoid, or make myself bigger or smaller to feel accepted or worthy.

Experimenting; trial and error is what it takes. When I finally realised there was a 'cause' for my anxiety a few hrs prior, the penny dropped. From then on, I'd calm my mind with focus and deep breathing to scan back over time and identify what triggered me. The relief was nearly always 'instant'!

After doing this for a while, themes and patterns began to emerge in my behaviour and beliefs. The more I learned to quieten my mind, the better I felt and was able to assess 'me' better as well. It took time, but eventually peace came...

Paul; I know you have an issue with my 'microscope', but without it, I wouldn't be the person I am today. Yes, it hindered me in the beginning when I didn't know how to use it, but now I've come to appreciate this gift I have and use it for good instead of evil. Ha ha...

Hope this all makes sense...

Sara x

Just hearing the word "mindfulness" automatically puts my back up. It has become such a catch-cry, a save-all, the answer to everything and it's total BS! I have had it shoved down my throat for years! When my psych suggested today that I should try it, I almost shoved the words straight back down his throat!

Quick off the mark, he changed strategies. "I want you to spend 15 minutes a day in the present". OK, that I can relate to rather than this airy-fairy mindfulness stuff. He explained further...."watch a sunset, stare at the waves, engage in a real conversation, read a book, take a stroll in the garden..." He would like me to just stop. Stop thinking ahead. Stop analysing. Get off from the merry-go-round. Just enjoy the moment.

Is it as good as mindfulness? Who knows, but it's certainly a much more acceptable method to my combative psyche!

But, but, but, TA...what your therapist asked you to do IS mindfulness practice. Clever of him to realize it was the word that bothered you, not its meaning.

It makes me wonder what on earth you thought mindfulness is all about. The best way it can be described is being in the moment. It is exactly what your psych advised you to try.

And yes...enjoy.

Hi TA, thanks for helping me to laugh today. Your last post did it. Mean no offence though.

Shell xx

Hey Dottie,

I have the impression that you may do this mindfulness naturally. ie somewhere you wrote that you observe the way people talk, perhaps there tone, or pitch of their voice?? Was it in a cafe or something. Anyway it was something I picked up about you.

Anyway you may be doing it already without realising that you are because your personality naturally does it.

Shell xx